open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked (Name Change) with harsh conditions!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic

Seraph Sinner
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:02:00 - [1]
 

Please offer this at some point. I know it is highly talked about and shot down, but combine it with very harsh terms and I doubt everyone will use it.


#1 Name change is final forever! One name change per account, not per character.

#2 The character that had the name change can NEVER be transfered to any other account. You are stuck with it forever.


Number three is optional and might not be needed, but maybe?

#3 Name change service only available after a legit character transfer to an alleged new owner

Number four is optional and might not be needed, but again maybe?

#4 Name change service must be paid with CC, paypal or whatever means CCP accepts that does NOT include PLEX

Name change service possible price could be $20

I would be fine with a much harsher price tag of $50


Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:05:00 - [2]
 

Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP:

Spazz21
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2011.05.16 23:35:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP:


^^ This.

Name change would be nice, I would love to change my own name as well. It's been a long time so what I thought would be a cool name then has changed from now.

And I agree, have name history and keep corp history. That's what people look at anyways. It's not like someone in the NC Block going to recognize the name of some random DRF Member if they try to join their corp.

Maybe put in a dot or something around the Portrait or name so players can see that they had a name change and if they care enough, they can easily check info on that player. Hell, put in different view options to select what you can see if the person has a name change. Such as the Dot or some other symbol as just said, or even have it in Parenthesis next to or below their new name.

Plus that means more $$$ for CCP.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.05.16 23:47:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP: Requiring people to look through history to identify someone in the middle of space encounter costs valuable time


#5 Display original name option, ticked on by default, other players' original name is displayed to you at a glance instead of new name.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.17 13:01:00 - [5]
 


Those limitation don't solve the problem, as per.

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP:


However an alias history just like the employment history would fix that, while requiring a degree of due diligence on the part of investigators.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.17 13:11:00 - [6]
 

The issue is indeed that CCP keeps claiming that changing name removes consequences (this contrary to the use of disposable alts (see: jita local), buying/selling chars and the impossiblity to see who is whos alt, yes i know that last one wouldnt be trivial, also i want api access to who is online).

Name change should just be implemented for those with horrible names (like me), with a few constraints:
Limitted uses, no list of 800 aliases (although cost would also deter that).
Always being able to see what is the new name when you got the old name.
Always being able to see what was the old name when you got the new name.

Then it is much less a removal of consequences than all the other mechanics already present.

EnthusiGASM
Posted - 2011.05.29 21:42:00 - [7]
 

...my name, it speaks for itself. It was something I chose arbitrarily to shut up a friend of mine MANY YEARS ago, kinda went like "Alright already, I'll try your @#%^#$ MMO and I'll be uber enthusiastic about it too." Anyway, I grew to like Eve and years later I'm proud to say I'm no longer the person I was then.

With the additional restrictions of the character being over a certain age, having a reasonable reputaion, an a.k.a. tab like Corp History, and never having been character transfered (thereby removing any special privelage for those seeking to buy a character just for skills or profitably escape a reputation by selling), would that be more or less rational?

Also, money <=> Plex <=> ISK, I see no reason to charge one or the other particularly. However, by being a character that satisfies the prior paragraph, a price in the single-digit billions of ISK (~$100+ or ~7+ Plex; whatever that works out to be) is more fitting and may still be too affordable

Goose99
Posted - 2011.05.29 22:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Those limitation don't solve the problem, as per.

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP:


However an alias history just like the employment history would fix that, while requiring a degree of due diligence on the part of investigators.



You do not have the time to "investigate" when a yerr-pirate shows up on overview.Laughing

The first glance is all that matters in reality. Unless original name is displayed at a glance, not supported.

Mystical Might
Amarr
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.05.29 22:53:00 - [9]
 

If a pirates killing you, does it matter what he was called before?

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.29 23:17:00 - [10]
 

As if the list of names (Cause they can only be used once), needs to be longer... now you want everyone to be able to double arbitrary BS. No, and No. Not a good idea.

If you really want to change your name-> Start a new toon. Your penalty will be that you have to Start all over. Wow, you're right, I doubt many people will do this!

Pirokobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.30 02:31:00 - [11]
 

Anyone else notice how the only person to upvote this is in a new ganking corp?

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.30 03:33:00 - [12]
 

Should have thought harder when you first named you character

htfu vOv

Goose99
Posted - 2011.05.30 03:40:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Goose99 on 30/05/2011 03:40:35
Originally by: Mystical Might
If a pirates killing you, does it matter what he was called before?


It matters when you don't know it's him because he has a new name. By the time you "investingate," you're dead. But that's the intention, isn't it?Laughing

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.30 04:47:00 - [14]
 

They already do name changes if your alliance name contains letters b and o.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.04 00:41:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Cordo Draken
As if the list of names (Cause they can only be used once), needs to be longer... now you want everyone to be able to double arbitrary BS. No, and No. Not a good idea.

If you really want to change your name-> Start a new toon. Your penalty will be that you have to Start all over. Wow, you're right, I doubt many people will do this!

Wait, are you saying that you want the names that people want to change? Or is it that you think a longer list would somwhow degrade in-game performance? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, because I do think you have legitimate arguemnts, I just don't think I'm getting it. But if we're talking about sarcasm...
Originally by: Lykouleon
Should have thought harder when you first named you character

htfu vOv

Lykouleon, thank you so much for valuable input, if not for that glorious debate on fine points I don't think we could ever have reached a mutual understanding.
Originally by: Pirokobo
Anyone else notice how the only person to upvote this is in a new ganking corp?

Lemme fix that. Actually, that is rather surprising considering there are some supportive comments here
Originally by: Goose99
Edited by: Goose99 on 30/05/2011 03:40:35
Originally by: Mystical Might
If a pirates killing you, does it matter what he was called before?


It matters when you don't know it's him because he has a new name. By the time you "investingate," you're dead. But that's the intention, isn't it?Laughing

I'm gonna assume you're mature enough to handle this bluntly: if the pirate spent hundreds of million ISK or tens of dollars/euros just to kill you, I think he deserves it. The whole point of charging a fee for this service is to make such things cost ineffective.

BLACK-STAR
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP:
LMAO!

Oh, ccp.... they're favorite pastime is russian roulette.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.05 04:01:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP: Requiring people to look through history to identify someone in the middle of space encounter costs valuable time


#5 Display original name option, ticked on by default, other players' original name is displayed to you at a glance instead of new name.


Really? Then everyone would leave this ticked ON, ALL the time. Who would want to see "new" names, EVER?

Easy Exploit:
Name change Grief #1

I supported this proposal at first, (with some hefty hefty real money cost to changing a name) but I'm not so sure anymore. If you didn't take naming your character seriously when you started. You should start a new character. Or pay someone in china to farm a new one with your new preferred name and sell it to you.

Your name is like an email address. You can't just have it changed that easily.


Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.05 04:33:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 05/06/2011 07:24:42

Hypothetical Situation: (assume 300,000 players)

Number of people who would like to change their name because they didn't really think it through the consequences of their name when they signed onto the game.

5% of the population, 15,000 players (liberal estimate)

Number of people who will see this as a new social engineering scam, and will try to exploit it.

20%, 60,000 players.


Now add to this the amount of extra GM work to deal with the name change cases (we assume that they will be screened somehow before a change is allowed -- checking for negative standings etc) and the extra grief that will come from the 60,000 players trying to scam.

Oh, and also the name change isn't going to improve the game balance, add new dimensions to gameplay, nor bring in any new revenue for CCP.

So from a purely business perspective, I would say there is no incentive for CCP to allow this. Make 5% happy, open up exploit to 20% and add more work to the GMs.

===
Now what if they did nothing about this:
5% of paying customers get grumpy and whine. Maybe some even quit the game. Let's say its only will be those who just started playing, because if you are so invested in your toon to want to get a name change instead of just starting over with a new toon, then its safe to assume that you will not quit playing just because you didn't get your name change. You will be angry, you will think its unfair or unjust, but you will still play, and pay CCP.

The only people who would legitimately be allowed a name change by the GMs, are those with no negative reputation. And those who are new to the game, would just as easily start a new toon to avoid the RL cost of a name change.

So, we are left with the ONLY people who would benefit from this proposal:
High SP, good rep players. Who may just want to change their name from JohnDork211 to John Dorkin.

Let's say that small niche of people are just 20% of the ones who want to change their name for non-scamming reasons. So if we exclude the 80% who want the name change to avoid a reputation, then we are left with:
20% x 15,000
3000 people, made happy, OR made grumpy but will still play the game otherwise, with 60,000 people trying to scam.

Not worth it, I think is CCP's reasoning.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.05 04:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 05/06/2011 04:35:52
Hypothetical Situation: (assume 300,000 players)

Number of people who would like to change their name because they didn't really think it through the consequences of their name when they signed onto the game.

5% of the population, 15,000 players (liberal estimate)

Number of people who will see this as a new social engineering scam, and will try to exploit it.

20%, 60,000 players.


Now add to this the amount of extra GM work to deal with the name change cases (we assume that they will be screened somehow before a change is allowed -- checking for negative standings etc) and the extra grief that will come from the 60,000 players trying to scam.

Oh, and also the name change isn't going to improve the game balance, add new dimensions to gameplay, nor bring in any new revenue for CCP.

So from a purely business perspective, I would say there is no incentive for CCP to allow this. Make 10% happy, open up exploit to 20% and add more work to the GMs.

===
Now what if they did nothing about this:
10% of paying customers get grumpy and whine. Maybe some even quit the game. Let's say its only will be those who just started playing, because if you are so invested in your toon to want to get a name change instead of just starting over with a new toon, then its safe to assume that you will not quit playing just because you didn't get your name change. You will be angry, you will think its unfair or unjust, but you will still play, and pay CCP.

The only people who would legitimately be allowed a name change by the GMs, are those with no negative reputation. And those who are new to the game, would just as easily start a new toon to avoid the RL cost of a name change.

So, we are left with the ONLY people who would benefit from this proposal:
High SP, good rep players. Who may just want to change their name from JohnDork211 to John Dorkin.

Let's say that small niche of people are just 20% of the ones who want to change their name for non-scamming reasons. So if we exclude the 80% who want the name change to avoid a reputation, then we are left with:
20% x 15,000
3000 people, made happy, OR made grumpy but will still play the game otherwise, with 60,000 people trying to scam.

Not worth it, I think is CCP's reasoning.



^^ Best post in the thread.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.05 19:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren

Easy Exploit:
Name change Grief #1


No, it really isn't, sunk that theory on the post below it

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
...nor bring in any new revenue for CCP.

So from a purely business perspective, I would say there is no incentive for CCP to allow this.

Not worth it, I think is CCP's reasoning.


You ignored the fee. Looking at those figures you described it would be EXTREMELY PROFITABLE: (15000+60000)*x let "x" equal the fee being charged and even at the cost of one PLEX (a number most agree is too low) we get $1,125,000. Sounds good to me; let’s leave CCP's reasoning to CCP, ok?

...but the scamming apocalypse you're expecting isn't going to happen because it's neither tactically, reputational, or cost effective to utilize nefariously and efficiently
Originally by: Ranka Mei

^^ Best post in the thread.

Really? Still think so?

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:45:00 - [21]
 

There is already a way to change your name with a harsh penalty built in. You delete the character and start a new one. Sure you lose all your skillpoints but you get to keep all your assets and ISK.

flummox
Posted - 2011.06.06 16:55:00 - [22]
 

NOT supported.

EVE is a game of choices and consequences. deal with them.

and this change would have impact where selling/trading characters comes into play.

sorry, kids. it's a no go on this one...

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.06 20:06:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Players: Let us change our names
CCP: We don't want players to be able to escape their reputations
Players: So let players have a name change history
CCP:


^
this sort of answer type infuriates me too.

Yeah maybe i shouldn't be infuriated ... but its the logic that strikes me as something close to lieing ... deliberate failure to aknoledge stregnths of an other's arguments and pretending like the first answer is self evident.

All sorts of things hisotries are permanent. Ooops, destroyed the player abilty to see reputation and history of other players NPC standings.. but that was different...

Basically, because history would still be trackable if it showed in the employment log their answer holds no water.

They might have answers, but its not the issue that they gave as they stated it.

They do have arguments beyond some flat statement that isn't true if a name change option was created correctly.

"the current system of no name changes ever makes it easier to see reputation than it would be looking at corporate history "

-rebutle, anyone concerned about reputation in a dealing will already be looking at corporate history

"we're concerned that allowing re-naming of characters would lead to many exploits of various types that would come along and the inevitable and expensive customer service work related to it"

- true, but addressable and perhaps profitable. Stringently limited Name changes should be a microtransaction of a type where each will be reviewed by a GM before they take effect. Replacement names can have a different set of rules requiring that any change also aid the over-all immersion experience. (require a first and last name, with only first letters of each capitalized and no use of numbers or symbols -- first and last name cannot both be similar to an existing character, only one or the other. With an existing Scott Jones a Scot Jones (one t in scot -or a Scoot too) would not be allowed Sam Jones or Scott Jacobs would be). Changed names could also be limited to resemble real world names or words in their use of consonants and vowel combinations. The GM screen process should be short enough in average minutes to handle dozens of such requests an hour and be profitable at $20 a shot or something.

"we are concered that even well intentioned players would "improve" their name by shifting towards the bottom of the alphabet for the incremental competitive advantage that it gives. In doing so, other players with existing names will have them incrementally disadvantaged by effectively moving them up an alphabetical list of players"
- this is a valid partial consideration that could be addressed if the volume of changes looked like it would be consequential Weighing this effect with the benefit of happier players with name charges for other reasons is subjective. The effect could be drastically diminished by arbitrary conditions that a name must start with the same letter it currently does, or within 3 letters etc.
“Its not a game-immersion influence but a meta game effect that holds us back. As character sales can be an important source of revenue for some players, and we allow the transfer of characters, long time players with better names are significantly easier to sell at higher prices than “unfortunately” named chracters. By allowing a change, those players owning poorly named characters could receive a windfall on the meta level even if they just liked to play the game and would enjoy a new name and had no intention to sell. We long term players own some fairly well named characters o and we will sell them now and then and we’d hate to have more competition”
Ok, I think this is the real reason. If so come out and say it . Again, a truthful explantion is important. Search your heart. Does this reason have any influence on your emotion about the issue? (I bet a fair fraction of the people against name changes are against them on a Meta, not an a character as a habitant of the virtual universe, which is the stated reason against them.

*(This is why I got so worked up on the remap gift where "thats not how remaps work" was an excuse to "we're making a one time exception to how remaps work and we elected this way to be the exception as giving the moset equitable benefit to all players".... well that answer doesn't work but answering "thats not how remaps work" while doing exactly the same giving extra remaps "ccp , thats not how remaps work.. don't give them out unless an equally beneficial manner" "if you make a fairness mistake and there is a solution don't hide behind a rhetorical flourish" /end that rehash )

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.06 20:16:00 - [24]
 

A very simple other reason to adopt a change in some limited shape or form:

Deffering the desires of well intentioned customers for the reason that other customers might take advantage of the situation isn't a very high minded way to approach the world.

Trust by default...customers and people are owed that respect...take steps to minimize the cost the less well intentioned impose. If there aren't enough steps that can minimize the damage to a reasonable level, then perhaps the well intentioned player will unfortutely not be able to have his needs met even though in their case no harm would be done. But even if the cost were twice the benefit to the well intentioned, the well intentioned should be served if running customer service in a high minded way that asumes customers are trustworthy first. If the cost were closer to 10 /1 , the good hearted customer would probably be able to see that himself and live with his unfortunate circumstance.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.06 20:20:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 06/06/2011 21:16:42
If it is about avoiding scams or meta advantage related to character values, fine.

They should come out and state that true reason not hide behind a half truth that isn't really consistent. Creative licence allows them to keep quiet, but if they do open their mouth's courtesy creates an expectation of honesty.

Being lied to is being lied to. Thats a real life thing not a in game thing.


Vaju Katru
Posted - 2011.06.06 20:38:00 - [26]
 

Im ok with name change, if you lose all SP, isk, ships, faction standings, EVERTHING.

You also start with a pod in a C6 WH.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.06 21:11:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 06/06/2011 21:12:35

delete duplicate

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.07 01:58:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: flummox
NOT supported.

EVE is a game of choices and consequences. deal with them.

and this change would have impact where selling/trading characters comes into play.

sorry, kids. it's a no go on this one...

I choose to push for the option to change names, it preserves consequences because there will be a history. This and more has been mentioned already been dealt with.

Okay, no character that has been sold may have a name change and any name changed character will be reverted to its older name. Dealt with.

Hmm, I'm not a kid, were you perhapes talking about him:
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Im ok with name change, if you lose all SP, isk, ships, faction standings, EVERTHING.

You also start with a pod in a C6 WH.

Reactionary and myopic. If that is the level of mentality that is opposing name changes I don't even need to say anything.

flummox
Posted - 2011.06.07 03:40:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer

Hmm, I'm not a kid, were you perhapes talking about him:



No.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.07 05:30:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Originally by: flummox
NOT supported.

EVE is a game of choices and consequences. deal with them.

and this change would have impact where selling/trading characters comes into play.

sorry, kids. it's a no go on this one...

I choose to push for the option to change names, it preserves consequences because there will be a history. This and more has been mentioned already been dealt with.

Okay, no character that has been sold may have a name change and any name changed character will be reverted to its older name. Dealt with.

Hmm, I'm not a kid, were you perhapes talking about him:
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Im ok with name change, if you lose all SP, isk, ships, faction standings, EVERTHING.

You also start with a pod in a C6 WH.

Reactionary and myopic. If that is the level of mentality that is opposing name changes I don't even need to say anything.


you jump into Jita, or other busy hub. There are over 100 people on Local. Are you telling me that you have the time to open up each persons history info and scan through? I really don't think so. This point has *not* been dealt with.

And the point I made of it generating no profit for CCP is this:
3000 people x $15 usd for name change = $45,000 revenue

That's presumably less than the cost of a 1 year salary of an employee at CCP who would have to deal with the customer support and petitions that would come from the abuses of this system. IE, no profit.


Pages: [1] 2 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only