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Cyno Me'in
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:27:00 - [181]
 

What about COSMOS agents? I have been grinding away at my faction standings to do the 9.3 required mission and hopefully get a BPC for a shiny new faction BS. Guess anyone that can do a lvl 4 for your faction can do that now.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:28:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: KristineKochanski
I assume you were all drunk at the meeting when this one was agreed, it really is the only explanation.

I have always assumed that the reason for varied mission types from the same agent was to encourage (require) a new eve player to train and experience different ares of the game.

I think I'm right in saying now you can train a Hauler alt and run lvl 4 missions with him without any problems or the need for any other skills. Did anybody give any thought to these changes? You are going to create a whole new class a idiot EVE players or is that the idea appeal to the under 10s.

Also spreading out missioners away from the current hubs will make War Decs less effective.

0/10 really poor effort




Well put if it is as poorly thought out then the bots will move to courier missions, wouldn't be the first time....


Daenna Chrysi
Amarr
Omega Foundry Unit
Shadows Of Betrayal
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:30:00 - [183]
 

I think what this patch does is, it clears up unnecessary complexity when running missions. What this enables, is that now there are only 3 clear categories to work with when it comes to new missions, you dont need to tweak 21 categories when adding a new missions, just the one category it belongs in.

I wish the quality info would include the effects of the skills to the new +20 quality, but that I will see soon enough and will have to live with.

But when it comes to 0.0, I honestly dont care, not because I am a carebear, I have lived in a WH and traveled in nullsec. Because of the massive alliances, I simply dont want to have to deal with any of them. Sure I would love to live in 0.0, if there were more options than either being the pet of a major alliance or be gun fodder.

Both options are unacceptable to me, so I just occasionally fly through 0.0 cloaked when necessary. Dont get me wrong, I dont want CCP to do anything to the big alliances, I think they have their own place in the game and thus serve their own purpose. I build my in-game life in high sec, because I see no benefits in living in low/null sec. The quality of agents wont make a difference to me, moving all lvl4 agents means just that I mine more and grind lvl3 missions.

to put it short, what keeps me away from the low/null is not what CCP does, it is the players who live there, and I dont expect that EVER to change.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:30:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Makumba Aki
HTFU or leave 0.0.. honestly.. it is on thing to complain about broken risk vs. rewards ratio... but complaining about high risk space being high risk is kinda stupid...


You're using "harden the **** up" wrong. If the complaint is centric to the game being made easier, "HTFU" has no application in the context of the issue. However, if we reverse it to something like "high security space has high payouts and low risk. The game needs to HTFU," the statement applies again.

High security space has high payouts that are getting higher, and low risk. The game needs to Harden The **** Up.

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:34:00 - [185]
 

so are lvl5 agents now give higher payouts? They are currently quality 12.

Also what standing will they require? Currently 8.6

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:38:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
so are lvl5 agents now give higher payouts? They are currently quality 12.

Also what standing will they require? Currently 8.6


Pretty sure they're going down to Quality -20 Level 5 which would be 7.00

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:39:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Vaju Katru
Put all LvL4 in lowsec.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:41:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 16/05/2011 18:41:59
Molock, Tallest, Soundwave, and whoever else has some influence on the upcoming mission agent tweaks, please reconsider these changes!

These tweaks to mission agents are going to make it even more profitable to be in highsec. Improved cash flow in low risk space will reduce the demand for null security space and other high risk areas. The population of players in dangerous areas of space will only continue to go down. Meanwhile the increased cash flow in the game's economy will inevitably flow into the pockets of rare moon holders.

The rich are going to get richer and the 0.0 experience will be diminished by inevitable player behaviors. Sad

Ito Fenris
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:52:00 - [189]
 

What about the Negotiation Skill?

will it also be refunded or is it still useful?

Daenna Chrysi
Amarr
Omega Foundry Unit
Shadows Of Betrayal
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:57:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 16/05/2011 18:41:59
The rich are going to get richer and the 0.0 experience will be diminished by inevitable player behaviors. Sad


too late...

Justice Starcatcher
Volatile Nature
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:02:00 - [191]
 

Are people being trolls or just stupid? Confusing is not the same as complex.

Here's an example chess is complex, 52 pickup is dumb.

Meaningless and arbitrary corporation divisions were dumb. I'm absolutely sure there is NO ONE in game using a Public Relations agent and wondering why they can't get more combat missions. It doesn't take a genius to figure out surprise surprise Security division gives command missions. Nor does it take brain power to type in "eve agent mission distribution" into google. If you can google, it it isn't complex.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:02:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 16/05/2011 19:05:34
Here's a quick fact most people are overlooking:

Faction modules and ships will get cheaper. I for one can't wait to pay less for those Republic Fleet Warp Disruptors and those Imperial Navy Heat Sinks.

So you are all missing the bigger picture. Let me spell it out for you:

0.0 anomaly grinding = RAW isk as reward. < We need to decrease this.

High-Sec missioning = ITEMS as reward. < We need to increase this.

Lea Thamaris
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:03:00 - [193]
 

This is one of the best changes for quite a while. Love it!

Pherick Sjang
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:10:00 - [194]
 

This is ****ing ridiculous. Yes, please, throw the hisec ******s another bone because they are too ****ing stupid to do anything but collect free ISK from missions.

:ccp:

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:10:00 - [195]
 

EVE PVE Balance: ****ed Till 2014

Azurun Li
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:14:00 - [196]
 

The tears are getting pretty deep in here. Anyone have a blueprint for T2 Hip Waders?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:17:00 - [197]
 

This is a development towards the bad. The simplification of agent categories forever locks missions into the three categories of combat, courier and mining, sealing off development opportunities for greate variety of missions depending on the business the agent is specialized on.

This may make EVE more simple, more accessible, but also much more bland and rigid.

Please, CCP, don't turn EVE into a necrophile's bride.

James Razor
Amarr
Fallen Angel's
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:26:00 - [198]
 

Stop messing around with things that arent broken and fix broken stuff instead. For Example THE ****Y RIGHTS MANAGEMENT SYSYTEM Evil or Very Mad

What will you do to reimburse people that did spend a ****ton of time and effort to get access to the high level agents and get decent faction standings which are now useless and a waste of time?

Oh, and with the anomaly nerf and the agents buff, this will realy help getting people from highsec to 0.0.

Srsly, i dont know what you guys take, but stop it. U messed up so many things recently. In the past such failure would have ment that someone would end up a head shorter.

linedash
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:26:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: linedash on 16/05/2011 19:27:35
Well my accounts are already cancelled (one of those legitimate times they are; am just waiting for them to run out at this stage.) - not due to this particular thread - but it's symptomatic of the problems..

If there are CCP players still active in 0.0; I'm convinced they're all ultra-rich characters who don't have to rely on grinding and the like to actually live, which a good chunk of 0.0 players do (even if not all will admit it).

We've had a minor(ish) nerf of 0.0 and now a buff to mission runners. The risk vs reward is utterly broken. Even farming sanctums/havens in top-end systems will only go so far and with the reduced drops from faction spawns - you're lucky to even get that odd faction point, etc to buff your income. Hell, you're lucky to get faction ammo half the time.

I got two housemates playing the game and brought them into 0.0 after a period in high-sec and they ended up grinding more out of lvl 4's than they could make in a -0.7 truesec. Sure you can get lucky and get the odd expensive widget to sell - but most of the time you're grinding sanctums for 30m/hr bounty with using 2 accts

And in the unlikely event that positive suggestions are being listened to;

get rid of local in 0.0; buff the hell of out it. Make belt running several times as profitable (much increased faction spawns based on truesec, truesec based multiplier on rat bounty, more and better ores for the bears, etc). Risk vs reward. Removing local makes the risk more like WH risk - buff the reward appropriately. Belt running is arguably the most dangerous form of 0.0 money making.

But if you do - 0.1au scanner available from station menu - needing a scout to undock could get old fast :>

oh + double the number of 0.0 regions and make stations destroyable. 0.0 is over-populated.


Maybe the 0.0 patch will bring me back.. I more suspect it will miss the point completely in some fashion. Maybe the low-sec patch instead, if that ever happens. More likely t3 frigs - because they know shiny brings account re-activations..

edit: combined total of 10 yrs subscription time between 2 accts; wish I could say I'll miss the game, but it just bores me to log in anymore :< gl folks

Valora Asatru
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:37:00 - [200]
 

Overall the changes seems good. But as somone else stated CCP must be on the ball to prevent macroers from flocking to the courier missions.

And for people whining about 0.0 beeing nerfed:
Crappy 0.0 got nerfed. I actually think it's ok for some of 0.0 to be less rewarding then the best activities in highsec/lowsec(especially low).
Why?
Because you have been carebearing out there for a long time now, with little risk. And little risk comes from loads of systems with anomaly upgrades making disruptive activities harder. Now there will be fighting over resources other than moongoo, which can only be good. I don't understand why people in 0.0 boast of it beeing for though guys only and then whine like girls when they just can't sit and carebear 23/7 in a system with only blues.
Take a look at lowsec in comparison. What's there are good lvl 4 and 5 agents. But where they are, there are pirates. So people using them are at risk while doing so.
Highsec missions might need a small nerf, but those people making lots of isk in missions there are often in pimped rides, and pimped rides can get ganked, so they are not 100% safe.

Evila Booze
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:38:00 - [201]
 

Am I the only one wondering about RP gain from research agents ?

Will they all now yield more RP due to having a higher quality ?

Irebura
A Little Irony
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:40:00 - [202]
 

wow, just last week i spent about 120 million buying those skills. any kind of reimbursement for that? have in mind that old learning skills were 4'5 million each (the advanced), but these connections skills go for abour 22 millions each one.

for someone like me that doesnt have a big corp behind, that is a lot of money wasted.

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:44:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Valora Asatru
Why?
Because you have been carebearing out there for a long time now, with little risk. And little risk comes from loads of systems with anomaly upgrades making disruptive activities harder. Now there will be fighting over resources other than moongoo, which can only be good. I don't understand why people in 0.0 boast of it beeing for though guys only and then whine like girls when they just can't sit and carebear 23/7 in a system with only blues.

Did you ever try to carebear with couple of cloaky stealth bombers and recons in the system? Conquer space, defend it (or pay rent)?

None of these pain in the asses disrupt hisec mission running.

Marius Deterium
Crush Kill Destroy
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:46:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Vaju Katru
Put all LvL4 in lowsec.


This

Kasidis
Gallente
Nexus.6
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:50:00 - [205]
 

Ok, I will attempt to be as constructive as possible.

1. For people saying this is dumbing down EVE, this is for you:

I will preface my statement by saying EVE PvE is a joke. Complete and utter joke. So saying this buff is dumbing it down is irrelevant because missioning wasn't hard to begin with. All this change is doing is making the hi-sec population more spread out instead of having 20 very populated systems and the rest completely empty. Hi-sec is where new players start, and they need a more organised, easier to follow missioning sytem than the wreck of one right now. New players and old players alike can now do what kind of mission they want, when they want. I agree a more dynamic system should be implemented in the future, but this will do for now.

2. Hi-sec/low-sec/null-sec risk vs reward thoughts:

Yes this is giving large amounts of income to people who are taking very little risk. Unlike many null-sec players, I agree with the anom nerf because it makes 0.0 a constant battle for better space. The current carebear napfest that plagues null-sec needed to be stopped. Although better sov mechanics could really make 0.0 a better place. In certain parts of 0.0 you can make more money than hi-sec and those are the places with the most fighting. IMO low-sec should be getting the most love. Currently it is only populated by -10 pirates and people travelling to and from null. I will be fine with the hi-sec buff if lowsec is given something that will make it more valuable. Null just needs better sov and economy changes. LESS DEPENDANCE ON JITA!!!

Cool Cool Cool Cool

Care Bear King
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:50:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Care Bear King
Love the changes, of course.

In a moment of selfless honesty,
I'll suggest doing this instead:

For all agents (including R&D):
High Sec Agents: Access as -20; Pay as -20
Low Sec Agents: Access as -20; Pay as +20
Null Sec Agents: Access as -20; Pay as 0

Note: Keep the impact of system security on
payouts or everyone will move to 1.0 systems.

It seems like you're missing a golden
opportunity to slip in long needed changes.
This.

...and you can blame me.
The Care Bear King made you do it.

gascanu
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:52:00 - [207]
 


CCP i hope you use this patch to fix the damn 0.0 mission distribution thingy!
i understand why you implemented that system in empire, but sending a player 4-5 jumps away in 0.0 space for a combat mission it's just ******ed ugh

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:59:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Care Bear King
Love the changes, of course.

In a moment of selfless honesty,
I'll suggest doing this instead:

For all agents (including R&D):
High Sec Agents: Access as -20; Pay as -20
Low Sec Agents: Access as -20; Pay as +20
Null Sec Agents: Access as -20; Pay as 0

Note: Keep the impact of system security on
payouts or everyone will move to 1.0 systems.

It seems like you're missing a golden
opportunity to slip in long needed changes.


I can get behind this.

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:08:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/05/2011 20:08:47
Originally by: gascanu

CCP i hope you use this patch to fix the damn 0.0 mission distribution thingy!
i understand why you implemented that system in empire, but sending a player 4-5 jumps away in 0.0 space for a combat mission it's just ******ed ugh
It's not just distribution mechanics alone, each mission has amount of jumps which should be made from agent system. For recon it's 0 (all 3 parts are given in the same system), blockades are 2 iirc (0-2 jumps), infested ruins max 4 jumps, certain l5 missions are up to 8 jumps. It's one of things which balances reward vs time spent for doing the mission (including travel time).

Imo advanced mission distribution system (which takes into consideration population in system) in low-populated systems has little to no effect, and sends to neighbouring systems (still, number of jumps is less than max number of jumps assigned to any given mission) only when local is over 50-100.

7Cai
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:09:00 - [210]
 

I doubt anything good will get out of this... You should make missions more dynamic, scale them for groups and reward groups as is done in incursions maybe... i expected something smarter out of this... but i cannot see it now.


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