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Kiyohime Ronuken
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:30:00 - [121]
 

Not everyone wants to play this game in constant 'freak out' mode. Some folks are happy to mine, carry stuff, develop their character and maybe occasionally pew-pew. Lots of us play to relax, not to be on the 'bleeding edge'. Don't Judge - you have absolutely ZERO idea what goes on in people's lives and why they choose to play they way they do.

The point is it is THEIR choice.

Lo Res
Southern Cross Incorporated
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:31:00 - [122]
 

0.0 nerf and highsec buffs are designed to drive people out of 0.0,

But...

They are trying to drive a specific kind of player out of 0.0.

can you guess who?

Solo Player
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:32:00 - [123]
 

So you have taken one of the most boring things in EVE...
..and made it even more boring? Why?!
Sure, this'll redistribute mission runner populations away from current mission hubs - towards the even more crowded trade hubs! WTF!?

Missions should be dangerous and unpredictable. Make agent quality dynamic, to make it worth finding that station nobody has been to in ages. Add random elements. Include mission trees, with choices and unexpected turns, where you need to be ready for anything. Make us scout out missions before daring our next step. Spawn competitive or even public missions. Have a mission market in every station, for EVE's sake.

This change is so timid and negligible, it's not worth the time it took you to write the dev blog, to say nothing of the doubtless hundreds of man hours of internal debate and testing that has gone into it. Do it right, or don't do it at all!

Lockefox
Caldari
Hell's Librarians
Darkmatter Initiative
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:37:00 - [124]
 

Being a skill *****, I just have two questions about the skill change.

This will be implemented similarly to the learning change? Credited SP for removed skills, right? How this was going to be implemented was not exactly outlined.

Second, as any good missioner knows, every agent has TWO connection books, resulting in two bonuses (though I can't remember how they stack). Will the bonuses for the new rank 2 skills replace the equivalent bonus from the old two books?

I like the changes, especially the need to grind reduced. I would have liked to see a fluid quality system that would go with a pilot's standing (can use agent at -20 standing, but their quality increases as your standing goes up), but simplifying the system I think is a great idea for all players in EVE.

~Locke

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:37:00 - [125]
 

Great the continuing dumbing down of the game. Did ya'll hire all the SWG devs from circa 2005?

Stop this idiocy and the JB nerf and look into ways to make the game better with new ships and new equipment, we've not had a major increase in ships/mods for 2 years. This is a spaceship game last I checked, let's get more spaceships and stop screwing with what's not broken.

The changes I've seen from this and then Soundwaves idiocy of changing jumpbridges then declaring that she thought it was unfair and no one should be excluded because they hadn't had time to train a skill I think this game is going in a very poor direction. If its going where I think it is you'll see the death of EVE and CCP within a year on par with the NGE that killed SWG.

Hopefully I"m wrong but just the wording and actions seems to mimic what befell that game so much.


Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:47:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Lockefox
This will be implemented similarly to the learning change? Credited SP for removed skills, right?


You get SP from all ... Connections skills you have trained.
You get a few skill books in your "home" station, too.

Quote:
Second, as any good missioner knows, every agent has TWO connection books, resulting in two bonuses (though I can't remember how they stack). Will the bonuses for the new rank 2 skills replace the equivalent bonus from the old two books?


Old skills were +5% per level each and rank 1, new skills are +10% per level and rank 2, so pretty much exactly the same.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:48:00 - [127]
 

Well that was a waste of bandwidth. No information that couldn't be had by reading the patch notes properly.

Oh well, at least you got to put out a Dev blog and thus feel like a super-star for a while, guess that's something Very Happy

Tristan Xavier
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:49:00 - [128]
 

Nice change CCP! Agent missions have needed a buff and some clarity for some time. Much appreciated!

Kain Simmons
Minmatar
Nomad Voyager
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:52:00 - [129]
 

Well something is Missing! If you allready rehaul the Missions do it right :)

Make a Division that gives out Missions vs other Empire Factions and make a division that give out Missions only vs Pirates. The Carebears wish for it ugh


mkint
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:52:00 - [130]
 

I would like to see a definitive response to how sec status affects mission rewards. I've heard that "lower sec tends to have higher quality agents, but that's all it affects" and "lower sec has better NPCs in missions" which boils down to "no" and "yes." So please, CCP, official response us please, and is it sec that matters, or security band?

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:06:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Lo Res
0.0 nerf and highsec buffs are designed to drive people out of 0.0,

But...

They are trying to drive a specific kind of player out of 0.0.

can you guess who?


Is it you?

I'm going to say you.

Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:13:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Samuel Miner on 16/05/2011 16:18:37
This has to be up there with when they added level 4's to high sec in the first place. Then I was a pirate with no skillpoints and raged because all my targets started to vanish.

Now I am a billionaire with a face roll mission Tengu, thanks CCP \o/

Edit:

That being said, I am all for condensing agent types, it was needlessly confusing before and now lets people pick exactly what missions they want to do.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:14:00 - [133]
 

So part of this change I like - that is, if I want kill missions, I go to a security agent, and I'll never be bothered by pesky courier runs or having to mine some random non-production-chain ore again. Kudos for that, it's a welcome change.

However, the -20Q for required standings, and +20Q for agent payouts, as an automatic thing, just smacks of laziness. Hell, I'll benefit from that and I'm against it. Missions pay out quite well as it is.

When I first heard of this change I pictured some sort of dynamic 'agent quality', where perhaps it would be based not just on completing missions but, perhaps, having bonus objectives - the completion of which would earn extra agent standings (and a bit of extra bounty and loot, sure).

Looking forward to the day when you dreamers at CCP get around to an actual revamp of the entire way that missions work.

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:15:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Kain Simmons
Make a Division that gives out Missions vs other Empire Factions and make a division that give out Missions only vs Pirates. The Carebears wish for it ugh
Even better solution would be making 1 agent per mission. 'I want gone berserk', 'i want to run worlds collide against guri-serp', etc etc ugh

Makumba Aki
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:17:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
before anom nerf, huge number of carebears lived in nullsec running the anoms for same (or more) profits hisec lvl4s had. they also acted as militia force of nullsec - gathered for space defense when called - thus making nullsec safer and reducing conflict.

now all those carebears are forced to move to high sec and grind lvl4. effects? no (or much less) militia in nullsec, thus more reason and ease of conflict, more risk in nullsec.

all they left to do (and they are planning to) is increasing reward in nullsec so the risk vs reward formula would be reinstated. although I have no idea how will they make a reward that would not attract carebear militia again... we'll see though.

Bring back the Anos to all 0.0 systems the way they were + introduce new better (like for carriers) anos depending on trues sec. Remove or at least delay the local in 0.0. There you go...

Untelo1
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:18:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Untelo1 on 16/05/2011 16:20:59
So now you're giving highsec missions a boost? How about moving all level 4 missions to lowsec? Also boost anom bounties alot, spread them around and remove the anom sov upgrade.

Nayette Ellis Dalogne
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:21:00 - [137]
 

I like the change. However, I too would like for CCP to look at certain corporations that now only have one type of agent for them. E.g. the schools will only have distribution agents from now on. Some more choice in these situations would be very welcome!

Kiyohime Ronuken
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:23:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Kiyohime Ronuken on 16/05/2011 16:26:23
Yeah - move all L4s to lowsec so you pirates have someone to shoot at? SERIOUSLY?! C'mon - WHY should someone who wants to do something worth doing have to put up with that? Its not like they don't already have:

Outright thieves.
Griefers.
Can Flippers.
Salvage Ninjas.
(added) Suicide Gankers who think your modules are worth more than their ships.

I've got another idea - let's move all PIRATES out to 0.0 so WE can have something -else- to shoot at. Let's see if the shoe fits on that foot.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:26:00 - [139]
 

Remove any rat bounties from missions that take place in high sec. Then it will be all good.

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:30:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Kiyohime Ronuken
Edited by: Kiyohime Ronuken on 16/05/2011 16:26:23
Yeah - move all L4s to lowsec so you pirates have someone to shoot at? SERIOUSLY?!
Did you ever hear about risk vs reward concept?

iamnotacriminal
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:33:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Kno Bodees*****
Originally by: VCBee 2fast2furious
EVE Online 2011: We don't ever want our players to leave highsec!


Here is a news flash... THEY DON'T WANT TO lEAVE HI-SEC!!!!!

Guess What else? IT'S THEIR GAME!!!! They can do what they want to do. Am I correct? Is this the "Eve sandbox" or does that only apply when it works for the so called "end game" player? Which after all of the non-sense that has come to light regarding botting and RMTing I'm not so sure I want to be a part of the "null sec lie". (I left the "f" out on purpose)

Hi-sec players are what keeps the lights on at CCP. This allows us to have our silly little wars over moons in 0.0. Let them play as they like, and lets get back to the dangerous practice of ratting in our super carriers, in a cyno jammed and gate camped system.

I have never seen such a whiny group of sissies in my life. ugh





Amazing how we "Hi-Sec Carebears" seem to annoy everyone... Some of us don't have scads of time to spend missioning, mining, plexing or any of the other activities due to RL concerns. How is it that me actually being able to enjoy playing a game I spend 15 quid a month on offends all of you low/null sec players. If I choose to not PVP, that is my choice and at no time should I be forced to leave hisec if I so choose not to. Not like you lose anything trying to gank me, with insurance payouts and all...

So again, how is my choice not to leave hisec so offensive to you pvp'ers..... Because you want to grief? Because I like PvE, and not PvP for the most part, I should be forced to come somewhere you can shoot me?

We all pay to play, and perhaps it is time some of you realized that I play the way I want, not the way you want...

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:41:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Originally by: Kiyohime Ronuken
Edited by: Kiyohime Ronuken on 16/05/2011 16:26:23
Yeah - move all L4s to lowsec so you pirates have someone to shoot at? SERIOUSLY?!
Did you ever hear about risk vs reward concept?


In fairness, if you're looking for risk, you shouldn't be looking in high-sec. It implies a level of safety. Do I agree it's reward is just? Based on high-risk environments, no, it's not. If you want to apply risk to people though, do it in areas that are setup for it.
(aka, populate low-sec if 0.0 is too "omgahsovwar" for you.)

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:44:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 16/05/2011 16:49:28
Originally by: Solo Player
Missions should be dangerous and unpredictable. Make agent quality dynamic, to make it worth finding that station nobody has been to in ages. Add random elements. Include mission trees, with choices and unexpected turns, where you need to be ready for anything. Make us scout out missions before daring our next step. Spawn competitive or even public missions. Have a mission market in every station, for EVE's sake.


I like the changes in the dev blog, but I like these proposed ideas even more. Making quality inversely proportional to how many missions that agent hands out per day would be great and would spread mission-runners out even more. Missions need some competitive elements, as they're almost entirely free of competition in a game that's all about competition. No, the possibility of ninja salvagers doesn't really count, since salvage isn't part of missions.

Anyway, I don't see these changes (the dev blog ones) as a buff so much as a simplification of needless complexity. Complexity is fine, but only if it adds to the gameplay or immersion.

Originally by: Komen
Looking forward to the day when you dreamers at CCP get around to an actual revamp of the entire way that missions work.


We can dream, can't we? Missions are broken, and I'm saying this as someone who makes decent money doing missions. They're boring, not immersive, not challenging, and give too much reward for too little risk. EVE PvE combat is the most boring of any spaceship game I've ever played. They need to be more dynamic, more challenging and less grindy. They should require having your brain turned on instead of being able to do them while watching TV and eating pizza like you can now.

Kiyohime Ronuken
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:45:00 - [144]
 

Have I heard of risk vs reward? Care to come risk your ship vs concord for the reward of blowing someone up?

For many the answer is YES. If for you the answer is NO then clearly I'm not the one with a difficulty in concept comprehension.

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:46:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Lo Res
0.0 nerf and highsec buffs are designed to drive people out of 0.0,

But...

They are trying to drive a specific kind of player out of 0.0.

can you guess who?


1. Those who are not that high up in the command structure of the alliance to have profit from other sources.
2. Small alliances.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:52:00 - [146]
 

I believe the scanner change will end up being an even greater detriment to the game than the agent change in empire. Already you have no risk for most pirates roaming 0.0 and you just made their job easier so they don't have to use scan probes etc. In the end combined with other 0.0 changes in recent times the end result is going to be fewer people playing in 0.0, and ultimately fewer people playing EVE if this continues.

Its claimed that Jump Bridges were to little risk for the reward. Yet the covert cloaking device used by many toons as young as just a couple months has absolutely no downturns. There is no way to turn off an enemies, he has complete control to pick and choose when and where he will attack. A skilled covert pilot can easily avoid any gate camps which are meaningless. If defenders form up they cloak and hide waiting til the defenders leave, before once again picking a soft target that has no chance of survival. Yet CCP takes not measure towards ending this. Instead they give an additional tool for these pilots to grief other players by lowering scan times and removing the need for probes.

I tell you I see dangerous signs that EVE is getting ready to leave its golden age, the changes are counterproductive to getting more people to move to 0.0. There is almost no reason to considering the risk compared to the rewards. SOE used focus groups to form the NGE, and it ended up being an utter disaster for SWG. I fear that CCP should seriously reconsider what they are doing and the path they are taking. Once they cross the line there is no taking it back. Once you lose the people you can't roll stuff back and hope they return, they've already lost trust in you. Don't be like SOE looking over at the mythical greener field, then find you burned your field to try to get over the fence and then failed to climb the fence.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:54:00 - [147]
 

Nullsec is indeed kind of getting shafted, but to be perfectly honest, buffing nullsec missions wouldn't do much about that anyway. The problems with Nullsec require far more radical changes than could possibly be done by merely upping the rewards of being there. But that really is a topic for another thread.

That said, this is a good change; The division dispersion means choice instead of chance, and the even quality means I can finally get out of Motsu. Hell, maybe I'll even explore other corps besides the Navy.

Imnar Blade
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:02:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Originally by: Kiyohime Ronuken
Edited by: Kiyohime Ronuken on 16/05/2011 16:26:23
Yeah - move all L4s to lowsec so you pirates have someone to shoot at? SERIOUSLY?!
Did you ever hear about risk vs reward concept?

Our risk. Your reward. Uh, pass.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:04:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Akita T


You should consider also removing the effect of truesec on rewards, and simply have just three reward "tiers" (for highsec/lowsec/0.0).

P.S. You might want to make it similar to incursions, with lowsec giving better rewards than 0.0


Or how about adding a new payout factor, inversely proportional to the 30-day moving average # of pilots online in the system?


Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:11:00 - [150]
 

Um... Wouldn't the quality change have a massive affect on R&D agents? It will make every agent spit out 1 to 2 cores a day. maybe even 3?


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