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Torolphilies
Posted - 2011.05.19 19:27:00 - [361]
 

Edited by: Torolphilies on 19/05/2011 19:29:28

Uncle Fou'You
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:04:00 - [362]
 

Did I just see the requirement for lvl4 r&d agents drop from about 7 to 5?
If this is so even more people will grind r&d agents and the price of datacores will really drop.

xaja
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:06:00 - [363]
 

Hard to believe you eliminated my 100 million worth of social skill books at 20 million a pop, and then you don't even give me the new equivalent skillbook?

I'm supposed to waste money on stuff I had already bought? I'm seeing the new skillbooks are also around 20 million a pop.

Talk about being cheap with things that cost CCP nothing but costs us several hours of tedious grind for nothing.

Emiko P'eng
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.19 22:11:00 - [364]
 

Originally by: Ark Ferroraider
I consider this change of Agents "strange".

1.

Originally by: Ciar Meara
While I agree some agents and their placements could be worked on I fail to see what the point is in axing the entire system of standing and agents.

Working for something and then getting access to better agents and better payouts is one of the things I like(d) best in the (old) agent system. This is just a (very) dumbed-down version that just makes people get more for less effort. Not the way I like to see things evolve; more shiny, lest substance!


Agree.

If it laziness to balance profits from different missions, it is possible to shift balancing to players. Let the Agent from whom often take missions, reduces an award for them. The Same - for Names of missions: that often carry out - let costs more cheaply. Also, then players will be distributed on different agents.

2. Agent Divisions

Only 3 types of missions because someone was too lazy to develop new missions, I think. Old missions also could be correlated with battalions approaching on sense. Something like:

Command - Very touch battles against non-friendly factions (fleet-run recommended)

Security - battles against any enemy types (include own agent's faction and her friends)

Internal Security - battles against Pirates (or Empire factions if agent is Pirate)

Intelligence - "Pick up & Fly Out" encounters (including hacking & "meet the partner" missions)

Surveillance - "See and Fly Out" encounters (fly close to target(s) some seconds) or easy fights

Legal - "Kill the Criminal" fights (mainly against mercs)

Mining - mining

Astrosurveying - "See/Scan/Crack & Fly Out" mainly non-combat missions

Accounting - "Fly faster, Faster, FASTER, I SAID!!" small cargo courier missions with wery short "complete mission" timeouts, maybe "dedspace" places and "chain delivery"

Archives - "Pick Up cargos in A,B,C,D and deliver into E,F,G,H" - small cargo delivery for Frigate class ships, more Agent level - more cargos and longer routes

Distribution - Same as Archives, but cargos is larger, for Industrial class ships

Storage - delivery 1 big cargo, L5 - freighter needed

Personnel - dangerous deadspace delivery

Marketing - delivery some quantities of goods: player must obtain (buy, produce or...) those goods

Production - receiving the BPC(s) and deliver produced goods to Agent's station, L5 - POS needed (BPC(s) cannot be installed on NPC-station industrial lines)

Manufacturing - Same as Production, but only 1 BPC & large butch, L5 - POS needed (for production speedup)

Advisory & Administration - all mission types

Public Relations & Financial - ?

-----
I hope, further CCP will return old system of Agent Divisions in the improved kind more interesting to players.

As a player of 23 days!

This change has just removed one of the things that attracted me to 'EVE' it's complexity.

As I am still learning, I felt missions were a good way of finding my feet!

I enjoyed the mix of missions. I nearly lost a ship a couple of times. When I did lose a ship I nearly went bankrupt as the insurance wasn't enough (Me being cheapskate!)

Now my 2 highest standing corporations are all distribution and are all paying out a lot less than before!

So now it looks as if is going to be a BORING GRIND LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO until I feel I am good enough to try for a player corporation & venture into 0.0 for the first time to get slaughtered

I originally pointed out that you have 5 career tutorials, that now feeds to 3 types of Agent. That TOTALLY loses the Exploration, Scouting & Salvaging section of the game. Which I was also enjoying!

I now believe the above poster has had a better idea than my original one!

For Public Relations & Finance - Escorting stars or Diplomats, covering up disasters (Pay-offs, silencing ex-employees), Money & bond couriering, Aid runs for publicity

/Signed

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.05.20 00:39:00 - [365]
 

just tried some cosmos missions, and the patch is a pretty BIG buff to faction standing

Elecrim Strife
Posted - 2011.05.20 04:31:00 - [366]
 

I don't like how now the area I was doing quests in (cause my corps is based there) now only has courier missions and i have to travel else where to do encounter missions. Not to mention all my stuff is in that area and to reduse the time it takes to do a mission i would need to move a lot of my things away form my Corp HQ.

Fuel Technician
Posted - 2011.05.20 14:07:00 - [367]
 

Edited by: Fuel Technician on 20/05/2011 14:09:59
I know a lot of ppl read these blogs, and they in turn know a lot of other ppl.......

Can anybody find someone who actualy wants to do courier missions and please have him/her reply to this thread!

edit: did that guy above me really say "quests".............

Elem Ental
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:32:00 - [368]
 

My standing with Caldari Navy is 6.74, yet I cannot access a single level 2 agent? Is this a known issue connected with the recent agent changes? If no, what do I need to access a level 2 agent or where can I go for answers. Grinding level 1's at my experience level is really quite depressing. Help! Wink

Laser Fodder
Posted - 2011.05.20 21:18:00 - [369]
 

Did anyone actually want these changes to the mission system.....
I quite liked getting a variety of missions for one agent - the only missions that I turned down were those that give faction hits with the other empires.
I liked the complexity of different kinds of agents this is just vandalism.
And the changes in agent quality means that the production of datacores will have jumped by about 20% so the price will plummet, plus its easier to get standings with research agents - all that griding for nothing,
And why do minable asteriods appear in kill missions but not in mining missions who thought that up.....
Sorry CCP I usually appreciate the changes but this just looks a lazy, dumbing down, nerf.
Al forment

Chertan
Posted - 2011.05.20 22:04:00 - [370]
 

Seems like I have to express some sentiment as well. Regarding agent changes -

Who wanted this? Why was this made?

Agents made easy indeed. -----> EVE =! Easy

Raven Thard
Posted - 2011.05.21 01:40:00 - [371]
 

You just nerfed the entire derlik region. There where no central mission hubs to deal with you could mission where you please. Now theres 2 mission hubs and your screwed if you want to mission elsewhere. ya for ****ing things up. make personel a security agent or just put every agent of every tyep in every system with a station and call it day.

Raven Thard
Posted - 2011.05.21 04:10:00 - [372]
 

**** it just going to have every alliance and corp im blue with as well as everyone in my corp pettion ccp till we get a straight answer from these pri.cks

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.21 10:16:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: Raven Thard
**** it just going to have every alliance and corp im blue with as well as everyone in my corp pettion ccp till we get a straight answer from these pri.cks


Right, because spamming up their system with pointless whiney bull**** is really going to make them sympathetic to your problem, you total moron. If you really want to get an answer best bet would be for you and all these imaginary friends of yours to ask the CSM to raise it as an issue, they've got a hell of a lot more of a chance of getting a decent reply than your idiotic spam plan considering giving player feedback is one of the reasons they were set up in the first place.

Or you can carry on whining and throwing a temper tantrum while nothing happens, your choice I guess.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.21 12:23:00 - [374]
 

Edited by: J Kunjeh on 21/05/2011 13:08:47
I have to say, so far I'm rather disappointed by the changes to Agent quality. The consolidation of Agent divisions is okay with me, but the quality changes made things too easy. Before the changes I was only able to access the level II agents and a few level III's for the Federation Navy, after the changes I am now able to access all but level IV's, which took away a good part of the sense of progression I had with mission running. I prefer gaining progressive access to better and better Agents within each level over getting access to all Agents of the same level in one fell swoop.

I appreciate wanting to make the game more accessible, but I have to agree with other players who have noted that it's a significant dumbing down of missioning in Eve. CCP: I hope you consider reverting back to the old Agent quality system (or a different system that doesn't dumb it down to such a degree).

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.21 18:08:00 - [375]
 

Originally by: Elem Ental
My standing with Caldari Navy is 6.74, yet I cannot access a single level 2 agent? Is this a known issue connected with the recent agent changes? If no, what do I need to access a level 2 agent or where can I go for answers. Grinding level 1's at my experience level is really quite depressing. Help! Wink


What's your Caldari Faction standing?

Bio Fade
Posted - 2011.05.21 19:38:00 - [376]
 

No reason for me to be in 0.0 when I am just losing isk fighting over worthless terf. Current wars are useless as they are fighting for old habits and not the new reality. Going to kick it back in empire. Thanks for the extra pay while I am here. See ya next year lawlass land!

Sovox
Amarr
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 01:11:00 - [377]
 

Edited by: Sovox on 22/05/2011 01:19:37
whoops even your forums sucks these days!

Sovox
Amarr
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 01:19:00 - [378]
 

Edited by: Sovox on 22/05/2011 01:24:26
Originally by: Sovox
Wow just wow!Neutral

Well it does kind of make sense i guess buffing mission runners in empire, I mean you gotta do something with battleships since they are pretty much useless in 0,0 Sov wars and Roams.

After reading some posts in this thread, Ive got to ask who the **** let some of these people in? I have never seen such Nancy Panda's! for real people "oh lil ole me" and you scary piwates can't touch my danger. They are so smug and its actually sickening, When the **** did they get here? and in eve no less which is a PVP centric game and is supposed to be a bit dangerous.

So CCP decided to change the sand box to a litter box with the nerf to 0,0 space ala Anoms JB ect, and yet i still have this damn overview bug? and my Don looks like a cloaked harby while i am warping sideways in my E-warp after being traffic controlled for 2 minutes and i haven't even hooked up with the fleet yet.(oh hey lucky for me i landed by those nuets from PL fighting those RZR nuets...oh wait which account am i on again?? j/k Razz)

CCP your quality has taken a real big dump over the last year, now you are changing things in what was once a stable sand box and trashing on things that took years to create which is just stupid, and leaves me with nothing but a feeling of dread for whats in the pipe for next patches, and with the reasonable warnings(LOL Idiots) you have been giving as of late i am rather paranoid. I just do not understand why you insist on dumbing down this game. I swear if i get screamed at by some parent for 20 minutes cause i ganked his 10 year old kids battle ship or hulk i am going to your office dudes!! I already been through that crap once in SWG never again man...never again!

I Don't think i want to play your new version of EVE your way.. **** gate camp online, **** world of super capital crapcraft and CCP you can **** your own face. You have not finished or fixed anything in the last 2 years or more, FW still sucks, WH space.. meh whatever!, I could go on and on, but atm all we have is more bugs, **** nerfs and crap nobody wanted or asked for.

So before anyone asks if they can has my stuff the answer is no! i am going to need it to suicide gank the lil ole me *******s in eve...

CCP stop yourselves you idiots you are ruining something ****ing beautiful!!Evil or Very Mad

0,0 gets nerfed while empire gets easy to find agents and a buff.. umm you know you could get the more fights that ya want out of 0,0 if you actually made it viable not nerfing it and making Empire more Viable/safe and now stupid proof... just saying


Dinsdale Pirannha
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.22 04:49:00 - [379]
 

Brilliant work on this CCP.

After discussions with many in my corp, it is clear we are looking at about a 25-45% increase in LP in the game.

That means all LP will soon be worth spit, all LP based items will also crash in price, and that will of course drag down the price of the pirate equivalents. Dread Guruista Invuln Fields for 200 million, anyone?

That of course, may not happen, because of another "feature" of this massive mission buff. There is a ton more ISK suddenly floating around in the game, as we now have EVERYONE running topped out agents.

Yes, you nerfed 0.0 income for a lot of people. But there were ALWAYS more high sec mission runners than there were people in 0.0. So this huge buff in high sec more than counters the 0.0 nerf. And guess what? All those expert ISK grinders in 0.0 just brought their pimped out boats to high sec and are crushing high sec sites.

Can we say lots more bounties, lots more mission payouts = INFLATION???? This inflation will likely counter the huge LP nerf described above, but all other non-LP items will skyrocket.

Oh yeah, and with people making the exodus for high sec, the ISK sink of destroyed ships in 0.0 fleets is shrunk, making the situation worse.

Guess your marketing guys did not discuss these changes with your resident economist.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:35:00 - [380]
 

An update on my post above...

So now, after running about 7-8 more missions last night, I can access ALL level I, II, III and IV Agents for the Federation Navy. The only Agents I can't access are the few level V's the Navy has. Prior to the patch I could only access I's, II's and a few III's. The new quality changes have completely flattened all sense of progression when it comes to mission running.

Please CCP, reconsider this part of the Agent changes.

Daneau
Posted - 2011.05.22 21:08:00 - [381]
 

Edited by: Daneau on 22/05/2011 21:10:02
Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Brilliant work on this CCP.

After discussions with many in my corp, it is clear we are looking at about a 25-45% increase in LP in the game.

That means all LP will soon be worth spit, all LP based items will also crash in price, and that will of course drag down the price of the pirate equivalents. Dread Guruista Invuln Fields for 200 million, anyone?

That of course, may not happen, because of another "feature" of this massive mission buff. There is a ton more ISK suddenly floating around in the game, as we now have EVERYONE running topped out agents.

Yes, you nerfed 0.0 income for a lot of people. But there were ALWAYS more high sec mission runners than there were people in 0.0. So this huge buff in high sec more than counters the 0.0 nerf. And guess what? All those expert ISK grinders in 0.0 just brought their pimped out boats to high sec and are crushing high sec sites.

Can we say lots more bounties, lots more mission payouts = INFLATION???? This inflation will likely counter the huge LP nerf described above, but all other non-LP items will skyrocket.

Oh yeah, and with people making the exodus for high sec, the ISK sink of destroyed ships in 0.0 fleets is shrunk, making the situation worse.

Guess your marketing guys did not discuss these changes with your resident economist.



While i can't say i like this change(i enjoy complexity and this makes the game less complex, and therefore less fun) the economic of it is that :
Agent quality -> major LP and small mission reward increase
Isk fountain = mission reward(small part) + bounties(unaffected by agent quality)
Isk sink = LP shop
so to sum it up this change will create far more sink than fountain thus removing isk from circulation.

Daneau

PS : people leaving 0.0 sanctums/havens for high sec will make it even more so since sanctum/haven had no LP sink at all but were a pure isk printer.

Fredrick Engly
RaVal Thyokill Industies Inc.
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.05.24 02:28:00 - [382]
 

Are all CCP employees tards? Greyscale et al

Nerf Nullsec, remove the meaning of iHubs and force nullsecers into a few systems that will cause more blobfests.

Boost highsec...

lawl wtf

Mathais Longhorn
Posted - 2011.05.24 16:46:00 - [383]
 

Jeebus all this complaining...mission runners complaining they have to move locations for missions, null sec pilots complaining about nerfs (as usual), pirates/grifers/theives complaining they will have to work harder for their ill-gotten gains, and low sec players all the while complaining they are getting less and less targets.

-- Then there is this drive to push players out of high sec to null sec initiative....
Explain to me where in any part of null sec could a high sec 'carebear' find the same kind of stability and safety they are afforded in high sec?!? Where in null sec can a casual player that likes to explore, mission, mine, manufacture, and do research & invention in peace? Oh hek forget peace, where can a casual player with a minimal play schedule do these sorts of things in null sec, without logging in after a couple days inactivity to find if they undock they will be shot by unfriendlys. Next tell me where you can do these things in null sec without someone else telling you that you have to do one of the following: a) mandatory CTAs; b) pay significant rents for the space; or c) be a puppet to a alliance to build, mine, and invent what they tell you to?

Null sec is and will always be the hardcore player's territory till new paradigms in null sec are enacted to create opportunities for the casual carebears to join you hardcore players in null sec. Many carebears have thought about making an attempt to live in null sec. But its not like its easy to even be allowed to get any kind of foothold before someone stops in and says 'mmm...fresh meat'. You want us high sec people to move out to null sec? Then give us better options than mentioned above.

--Low sec...
Its broken and we all know it. Its where pirates sit and wait for the traffic passing back and forth between null and high sec. If you want more people living in low sec, maybe there should be more low sec systems added to make the space between null and high sec larger. Or give low sec things that null and high sec dont have...something that can draw high and null sec players.

As for the patch, it makes sense. All be it half baked, but it opens doors for further changes and modifications that could make missioning enjoyable and challenging again. People want risk and reward balanced again, could that honestly be achieved with the agents as they were before. Even the mining agents gave a certain percentage of combat missions and so did the courier agents. Now combat missions are focused into one agent type. Easy enough at this point now for CCP to make missions as challenging as desired. Cause if you talk to a security agent you already know what your getting yourself into.

I could go on and on but most of you probably stopped reading this after the first paragraph... To be honest I would really like to see what some null sec people have to say about my comments. I still entertain aspirations of living in a bit of null sec before this game comes to an end. I would like to know if there really are other options...cause as I see it if I was to come out to null sec I would need to live a whole new life and leave everything I do now in high sec.

Snoop Snoop Doobiedoob
Posted - 2011.05.24 21:56:00 - [384]
 

First of all, i'm not a mission runner and i'm not one of those ppl that ran sanctums 23/7 prenerf.
My prediction is that the isk/hour in highsec wont change much. Its actually pretty simple if you follow the supply/demand scheme. Pretty much everyone will get more LP now => more LP = more items on the market (more supply - same demand = less isk/LP)



jasmine mashumara
Posted - 2011.05.25 02:55:00 - [385]
 

Edited by: jasmine mashumara on 25/05/2011 10:07:49
Edited by: jasmine mashumara on 25/05/2011 09:51:06
Quote:
First of all, i'm not a mission runner and i'm not one of those ppl that ran sanctums 23/7 prenerf. My prediction is that the isk/hour in highsec wont change much. Its actually pretty simple if you follow the supply/demand scheme. Pretty much everyone will get more LP now => more LP = more items on the market (more supply - same demand = less isk/LP)


Value of LP will change along with supply/demand of market

What people mightn't realise straight away is that this change is effectively a nerf to lvl4 missioning. CCP have removed the effective agent quality. (many missioners prior to the patch had effective agent quality at over +30 because of high standing to the agent they run the missions with)

What they have done is made all agent +20 quality which makes all the agents that noone used due to low quality suddenly viable to use and giving players more options to spread out a bit.

All in all this makes for a stealth nerf for highend missioners
(those that had the high standings)

As for the 0.0/lowsec arguement, there does need to be a rebalance. Nullsec residents have been returning to empire in droves since the anomaly nerf due to poor risk vs reward compared to highsec.

I am not too keen on the changes, they make the game less complex which also makes it less interesting. I dont see why CCP should make lvl4 missions more accessable to players; people should have to grind standing to get them.. either way there are far more urgent things need rebalanced in my opinion than lvl4 missions. ( if it was an attempt at rebalancing it they didnt nerf it hard enough)

Tadari
Posted - 2011.05.25 08:40:00 - [386]
 

What a carebear patch.. dont waste youre time for agentmission bull$hit.

Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.25 18:01:00 - [387]
 

I think it's clear that CCP is out of ideas.

Let's be honest, the quality of game content in missions was pretty thin to begin with. Missions get old fast but they're a good source of income. Plus, some people enjoy the game intricacies of standings and corps, especially in regards to RnD, JC's, POS's etc. These intricacies required planning, effort .. these things made the achievements feel worthy.

To address the appalling lack of variety and quality in mission content, CCP could have, you know, actually developed new and better content. But no, that requires planning, effort ... so they've dumbed down the whole thing. The result is that the bad content is less grindingly annoying. Lazy .. and its showing

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:27:00 - [388]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
You want I should get you a tissue? How can someone with the word wisdom in their name have none? You obviously aren't a mission runner or you'd know that none of what you've said is true in practice.

New guys won't be making any more isk then they would have before since they'll still be low on standings. As an L4 runner I can tell you that even when you get nothing but combat, you still tend to skip missions that you don't feel like doing which brings up the timer and as far as your bit on skill training, thats just stupid seeing as if you didn't want to do those missions, you would skip it, not train skills for it.Laughing


The issue of skipping missions "you don't like" doesn't come up when you are using deploy and forget ships, or multi-boxing in nullsec while grinding in high-sec. I'm also assuming you've never gotten back to back faction missions either - I don't fancy being banned from amarr space, so I tend to skip those. Though it is now much easier to access agents, meaning much less grinding. I think this is great, but it also means it's well out of the "nerf" area.

The 100% worst case doom and gloom end of this patch is a slightly reduced income to Lv4 grinders who only run Lv4's the entire time they're on. But since you guys have little to no isk sinks, I fail to see why that's an issue.
(Unless you have your kid run Lv4's while you PvP. That would be pretty cool.)

Also a tissue would be great, I've had the sniffles for weeks.

Ingrid Artrald
Posted - 2011.05.26 01:33:00 - [389]
 

amalgamating the agent types and missions was OK - but the reward or storyline missions are not

my mine/transport/mfg char doing lvl3/4 distribution missions - gets "rewarded" every 15 or missions with a lvl 3 combat mission ?? - the best fighter it can use is a destroyer - not much good against tough cruisers and BS's - and a huge loss in standing after grinding for the slow incremental gain if you cant get someone else to help

maybe CCP should make missions tradeable like contracts - then I could give (sub contract) it to my combat char or anyone else for a price where you get to keep the reward (ISK, LP & standing) - obviously trust issues apply - by viewing the popularity (or not) of traded mission types CCP could use the data to make better ones and adjust rewards etc

Shigeono
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.05.26 09:42:00 - [390]
 

I would have to agree with people who think this is a nerf to L4's. More people running L4's will result in an increase in tag prices and more LP rewards being on the market. To me, the consequence of this will be less ISK/hour in the near future.


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