open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Agents Made Easy
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 : last (14)

Author Topic

Cal Donny
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:54:00 - [331]
 

The change to Agent quality is going to change player behavior, for sure. But the change to simplify divisions destroys a challenge/opportunity for players to obtain a random mission (ie., fun). More importantly it simplifies, and thereby lessens the game considerably. Significantly, many corps in the game will now only have "courier" missioning. Simplified, and boring too. It seems that the combat aspects of Eve have overshadowed the economic/trade aspects of the game, thus we are now nerfing the ability for players to have fun while maintaining balanced faction standing, and thus Eve-wide trade capability. ouch . The result could be to drive a lot of players into missioning for those a few companies that will have both encounter and courier mission agents in some proximity to each other. This apparently simple change has potentially huge ramifications for the character of the game itself. The time commitment for courier missions versus encounter missions is huge. That factor alone will certanly change some players' behavior.

VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:56:00 - [332]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha
I decided to move my main to high sec to mission after the 0.0 nerf since it is kind of tough to make ISK in my alliance's systems when there are 10 people fighting over 2 Hubs (yeah, no Sanctums or Havens in our territory) in every system.


Conquer better space.


He did (by moving to highsec)Laughing

Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
Posted - 2011.05.18 16:18:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Sixtina KL on 18/05/2011 16:18:04
1) CCP releases an update everybody wanted.
2) Everybody complains anyway.
3) Ruined FOREVER!
4) The Aristocrats Very Happy

megalow blackstar
Posted - 2011.05.18 17:16:00 - [334]
 

Grate news fore 0.0 mission runners! To the flamers out there who clams that this is a "bad" change, my only question is . Did you even read the blogg?

Do it CCP! just do it!!!Very Happy

Reconnoitre
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:59:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: N'oah
Originally by: Reconnoitre
TIME TIME TIME. if you have been playing eve more than a year or two.
all those skills have taken time and real money to get to the lvl's needed.. now i have to RETRAIN them again..
So CCP when the Hell do i get the time and the Real money back every time you do some crap change to the game.

To be honest i think it's Time to Pull the plug on eve.
New games slection ideas in a mail.


I was about to point out a obvious flaw in your logic, but i decided not to. I belive it is best for us all if you just cancel your sub. feel free to contract me your stuff.


they have changing them from a rank 1 skil to a rank 2.. so your not going to have enough points. no floor in my logic FANboy.

He'll not be the only ignorant player, so you should have pointed it out.

You get ALL of your points back, in an easy to apply system where you can give the points to any skill, without modifier loss.

Ark Ferroraider
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:12:00 - [336]
 

I consider this change of Agents "strange".

1.

Originally by: Ciar Meara
While I agree some agents and their placements could be worked on I fail to see what the point is in axing the entire system of standing and agents.

Working for something and then getting acces to better agents and better payouts is one of the things I like(d) best in the (old) agent system. This is just a (very) dumbded-down version that just makes people get more for less effort. Not the way I like to see things evolve; more shiney, lest substance!


Agree.

If it laziness to balance profits from different missions, it is possible to shift balancing to players. Let the Agent from whom often take missions, reduces an award for them. The Same - for Names of missions: that often carry out - let costs more cheaply. Also, then players will be distributed on different agents.

2. Agent Divisions

Only 3 types of missions because someone was too lazy to develop new missions, I think. Old missions also could be correlated with battalions approaching on sense. Something like:

Command - Very touch battles against non-friendly factions (fleet-run recommended)

Security - battles against any enemy types (include own agent's faction and her friends)

Internal Security - battles against Pirates (or Empire factions if agent is Pirate)

Intelligence - "Pick up & Fly Out" encounters (including hacking & "meet the partner" missions)

Surveillance - "See and Fly Out" encounters (fly close to target(s) some seconds) or easy fights

Legal - "Kill the Criminal" fights (mainly against mercs)

Mining - mining

Astrosurveying - "See/Scan/Crack & Fly Out" mainly non-combat missions

Accounting - "Fly faster, Faster, FASTER, I SAID!!" small cargo courier missions with wery short "complete mission" timeouts, maybe "dedspace" places and "chain delivery"

Archives - "Pick Up cargos in A,B,C,D and deliver into E,F,G,H" - small cargo delivery for Frigate class ships, more Agent level - more cargos and longer routes

Distribution - Same as Archives, but cargos is larger, for Industrial class ships

Storage - delivery 1 big cargo, lvl 5 - freighter needed

Personnel - dangerous dedspace delivery

Marketing - delivery some quantities of goods: player must obtain (buy, produce or...) those goods

Production - receiving the BPC(s) and deliver produced goods to Agent's station, lvl 5 - POS needed (BPC(s) cannot be installed on NPC-station industrial lines)

Manufacturing - Same as Producton, but only 1 BPC & large butch, lvl 5 - POS needed (for production speedup)

Advisory & Administration - all mission types

Public Relations & Financial - ?

-----
I hope, further CCP will return old system of Agent Divisions in the improved kind more interesting to players.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:31:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Ark Ferroraider
I consider this change of Agents "strange".

1.

Originally by: Ciar Meara
While I agree some agents and their placements could be worked on I fail to see what the point is in axing the entire system of standing and agents.

Working for something and then getting acces to better agents and better payouts is one of the things I like(d) best in the (old) agent system. This is just a (very) dumbded-down version that just makes people get more for less effort. Not the way I like to see things evolve; more shiney, lest substance!


Agree.

If it laziness to balance profits from different missions, it is possible to shift balancing to players. Let the Agent from whom often take missions, reduces an award for them. The Same - for Names of missions: that often carry out - let costs more cheaply. Also, then players will be distributed on different agents.

2. Agent Divisions

Only 3 types of missions because someone was too lazy to develop new missions, I think. Old missions also could be correlated with battalions approaching on sense. Something like:

Command - Very touch battles against non-friendly factions (fleet-run recommended)

Security - battles against any enemy types (include own agent's faction and her friends)

Internal Security - battles against Pirates (or Empire factions if agent is Pirate)

Intelligence - "Pick up & Fly Out" encounters (including hacking & "meet the partner" missions)

Surveillance - "See and Fly Out" encounters (fly close to target(s) some seconds) or easy fights

Legal - "Kill the Criminal" fights (mainly against mercs)

Mining - mining

Astrosurveying - "See/Scan/Crack & Fly Out" mainly non-combat missions

Accounting - "Fly faster, Faster, FASTER, I SAID!!" small cargo courier missions with wery short "complete mission" timeouts, maybe "dedspace" places and "chain delivery"

Archives - "Pick Up cargos in A,B,C,D and deliver into E,F,G,H" - small cargo delivery for Frigate class ships, more Agent level - more cargos and longer routes

Distribution - Same as Archives, but cargos is larger, for Industrial class ships

Storage - delivery 1 big cargo, lvl 5 - freighter needed

Personnel - dangerous dedspace delivery

Marketing - delivery some quantities of goods: player must obtain (buy, produce or...) those goods

Production - receiving the BPC(s) and deliver produced goods to Agent's station, lvl 5 - POS needed (BPC(s) cannot be installed on NPC-station industrial lines)

Manufacturing - Same as Producton, but only 1 BPC & large butch, lvl 5 - POS needed (for production speedup)

Advisory & Administration - all mission types

Public Relations & Financial - ?

-----
I hope, further CCP will return old system of Agent Divisions in the improved kind more interesting to players.



I'd add those divisions COULD have had much more significant meaning in INCARNA if there was going to be actual gameplay of course.

Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering
Needless Friends
Posted - 2011.05.18 23:40:00 - [338]
 

I think it is a waste of your time to re-do missions as simply as stated. You can easily do a better job and make missions more organic.

Completely redo missions and make it work with other game machinics already in place.

Put missions in contacts! Where all players can see and even compete for (bidding). Let there be NPC missions and mission player corps/ally can make. Let these missions be independent, incursions, or explotion (and other content). Let NPC missions be random generated and all players can see and select what they want to do.

Combat missions could be incusion, exploration, or independent (like current missions). When a player is failing (having a hard time) another contract for the same mission is issues and thus more then one player could compete for the same mission (or work together - sharing for gang).
For courier/mining missions - you create a system where station require supplies (like food, fuel, etc) and these missions are issues accordingly. These requirement should be on the market. As these requirements sit for too long missions will be issues to satitfiy the supply. As a one of these missions sit the more isk in awared.
Agents as is can be done away with IMO. Sure have agents to interact with to being supplies and get rewards, but going to the office to get a missions is very lame. Putting the missions into contracts and making it interact with other content will encourge players to get invovled with events that you devs create.
I can imagine NPC corp building stations in high sec and put out missions to bring supplies in. Put the players to work to do that. You have a live incursion event - put up mission for players to do things (hack the node, bring in tags).
Do away with the boring missions as is - the same thing over and over is lame - make it organic and interact with other content!

Chris Tao
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:29:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Sanni Ramiwa
Fine that all agents are using Q:-20 for access; but reward could be based on your actual standing against the corp, so when you first can access the agent you get Q:-20 payouts and then the payouts increase with standing increase (until you reach max payout equal to Q:20)

I also think the rewards should be based on the sec status of the system the MISSION is in, not the agents system.
So if a highsec agent sends you to lowsec; that mission should pay out more.


This i really LOVE, also it does not **** up everybody who has worked hard to get standing

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:29:00 - [340]
 

Is there a connections book for R&D Division?

Arya Vonbrawn
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:40:00 - [341]
 

Edited by: Arya Vonbrawn on 19/05/2011 08:40:14
Originally by: Imnar Blade
Oh and tears? Level 4s in low sec only?

Just why on Erfworld would we want to give you people free PvP with us on your terms (with additional hinderances to us) when we just plain do not wish to play with you.

Every advantage to you lot and every disadvantage to us? I really don't think so.

Keep squealing tho, because if there's anything sweeter than our tears to you, it's yours to us. Razz


I like this guy!

Also, the Null and Low Sec tears are delicious...

UniqueOne
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.19 09:47:00 - [342]
 

These changes are going to be great.

I suspect they (combined the anom nerfs) are the first step toward adding agents to player outposts in 0.0. Something I think noone would be against.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:17:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: UniqueOne

I suspect they (combined the anom nerfs) are the first step toward adding agents to player outposts in 0.0. Something I think noone would be against.



Now if only they'd do that.. However I have difficulty in believing CCP wants to do anything other than nerf null and boost highsec..

appledox
Gallente
Legion Of Mad Cats
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:42:00 - [344]
 

Thank you hate having to transport when its says command mission.

LoRDa RaMOs
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:45:00 - [345]
 

And What does the CSM have to say about this? Rolling Eyes

Where is Chribba? Shocked

Pookie McPook
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:38:00 - [346]
 

I don't really understand the reason for these changes other than as being an attempt to spread out the pilots away from the old good quality mission hubs.

It IS a simplification of the game. Whether or not it turns out to be step towards dumbing it down remains to be seen.

Ameliette Estemaire
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:45:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: Cal Donny
The change to Agent quality is going to change player behavior, for sure. But the change to simplify divisions destroys a challenge/opportunity for players to obtain a random mission (ie., fun). More importantly it simplifies, and thereby lessens the game considerably. Significantly, many corps in the game will now only have "courier" missioning. Simplified, and boring too. It seems that the combat aspects of Eve have overshadowed the economic/trade aspects of the game, thus we are now nerfing the ability for players to have fun while maintaining balanced faction standing, and thus Eve-wide trade capability. ouch . The result could be to drive a lot of players into missioning for those a few companies that will have both encounter and courier mission agents in some proximity to each other. This apparently simple change has potentially huge ramifications for the character of the game itself. The time commitment for courier missions versus encounter missions is huge. That factor alone will certanly change some players' behavior.



Agreed. What I loved about the previous system is that my Advisory or Public Relations agents (for example) would give a random mix of missions; if I wanted I COULD DECLINE a courier or encounter mission if I wanted. Now my agents will only give a either an encounter or courier and I have no chance of getting another type of mission from my agent. Right now I hate this change.

Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering
Needless Friends
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:06:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: UniqueOne
These changes are going to be great.

I suspect they (combined the anom nerfs) are the first step toward adding agents to player outposts in 0.0. Something I think noone would be against.


There is nothing great about these changes. They are simplifing a system that was patch and patch and patch to the current boring system it is now.

They really need to re-do the whole systems and make it tie into other content of the game. Such as incursion, exploration, and others. Put mission into contracts where all players can view and compete for the same missions (or work together). Courier and mining missions can be reducne to market orders for needs of station and when those needs are comming due post missions to fill those requirements. Otherwise the station starts losing services.
Missions as is are not a funcitional part of the game. Currently you pick up a mission and have little interaction with the rest of the some. I think it can be better done

Please read and post your comments to my suggestion to this post here.

Luc Commodo
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:11:00 - [349]
 

I think some of your guys have played the game too long and forget that this game also HAS to attract and keep new players to thrive. The 21 types of agent and random mix of missions is quite simply a pain in the arse for newer players and, as the Devs say, unnecessary complexity.

Gondebine
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:13:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Ark Ferroraider
I consider this change of Agents "strange".

1.

Originally by: Ciar Meara
While I agree some agents and their placements could be worked on I fail to see what the point is in axing the entire system of standing and agents.

Working for something and then getting acces to better agents and better payouts is one of the things I like(d) best in the (old) agent system. This is just a (very) dumbded-down version that just makes people get more for less effort. Not the way I like to see things evolve; more shiney, lest substance!


Agree.

If it laziness to balance profits from different missions, it is possible to shift balancing to players. Let the Agent from whom often take missions, reduces an award for them. The Same - for Names of missions: that often carry out - let costs more cheaply. Also, then players will be distributed on different agents.

2. Agent Divisions

Only 3 types of missions because someone was too lazy to develop new missions, I think. Old missions also could be correlated with battalions approaching on sense. Something like:

Command - Very touch battles against non-friendly factions (fleet-run recommended)

Security - battles against any enemy types (include own agent's faction and her friends)

Internal Security - battles against Pirates (or Empire factions if agent is Pirate)

Intelligence - "Pick up & Fly Out" encounters (including hacking & "meet the partner" missions)

Surveillance - "See and Fly Out" encounters (fly close to target(s) some seconds) or easy fights

Legal - "Kill the Criminal" fights (mainly against mercs)

Mining - mining

Astrosurveying - "See/Scan/Crack & Fly Out" mainly non-combat missions

Accounting - "Fly faster, Faster, FASTER, I SAID!!" small cargo courier missions with wery short "complete mission" timeouts, maybe "dedspace" places and "chain delivery"

Archives - "Pick Up cargos in A,B,C,D and deliver into E,F,G,H" - small cargo delivery for Frigate class ships, more Agent level - more cargos and longer routes

Distribution - Same as Archives, but cargos is larger, for Industrial class ships

Storage - delivery 1 big cargo, lvl 5 - freighter needed

Personnel - dangerous dedspace delivery

Marketing - delivery some quantities of goods: player must obtain (buy, produce or...) those goods

Production - receiving the BPC(s) and deliver produced goods to Agent's station, lvl 5 - POS needed (BPC(s) cannot be installed on NPC-station industrial lines)

Manufacturing - Same as Producton, but only 1 BPC & large butch, lvl 5 - POS needed (for production speedup)

Advisory & Administration - all mission types

Public Relations & Financial - ?

-----
I hope, further CCP will return old system of Agent Divisions in the improved kind more interesting to players.



/signed.

Why are the CCPs making an already rather uninspired system even more boring? There would be so much potential to improve the missions system as the OP hereby shows. By this stupid patch instead, you're taking away part of the already few things that made missioning interesting. All in the name of "making things easy". Your PR people say "easy is good, easy sells!"? Screw them! The players of EVE don't like "easy" and never will this game attract the "easy" kind of players. If you, CCP, continue on this road, you will in the end have taken away everything that makes EVE worth playing. Kthxbye.

Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering
Needless Friends
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:14:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Ameliette Estemaire
Originally by: Cal Donny
The change to Agent quality is going to change player behavior, for sure. But the change to simplify divisions destroys a challenge/opportunity for players to obtain a random mission (ie., fun). More importantly it simplifies, and thereby lessens the game considerably. Significantly, many corps in the game will now only have "courier" missioning. Simplified, and boring too. It seems that the combat aspects of Eve have overshadowed the economic/trade aspects of the game, thus we are now nerfing the ability for players to have fun while maintaining balanced faction standing, and thus Eve-wide trade capability. ouch . The result could be to drive a lot of players into missioning for those a few companies that will have both encounter and courier mission agents in some proximity to each other. This apparently simple change has potentially huge ramifications for the character of the game itself. The time commitment for courier missions versus encounter missions is huge. That factor alone will certanly change some players' behavior.



Agreed. What I loved about the previous system is that my Advisory or Public Relations agents (for example) would give a random mix of missions; if I wanted I COULD DECLINE a courier or encounter mission if I wanted. Now my agents will only give a either an encounter or courier and I have no chance of getting another type of mission from my agent. Right now I hate this change.


This is not an entirely true statement. There are advatages to running mining and courier missions when you cant give the game 100% attention. Leave your toon flying auto to dest while you tend to other things. It is a great way to rise standing while doing homework for school, or even working in an office (shh).

But I think the whole system should be redone - read my post above.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:15:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Pookie McPook
I don't really understand the reason for these changes other than as being an attempt to spread out the pilots away from the old good quality mission hubs.

It IS a simplification of the game. Whether or not it turns out to be step towards dumbing it down remains to be seen.


Only it's obviously not going to spread pilots out in any meaningful way. With system sec the last remaining determination of reward quality, players will simply congregate around 0.5 systems with the most level IV agents. As to whether this leads to new market hubs or current hubs stay put through sheer inertia remains to be seen.

Either way it's highly unlikely the vast majority of players will pick a random level IV agent. Yesterday's players picked the ones with the best rewards closest to market hubs. Tomorrow's players will do exactly the same. Everyone wants to maximise rewards while avoiding huge distances for logistics.

Thus CCP is about to fail in epic fashion if they think this will spread out more than a tiny number of established players.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:54:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

Thus CCP is about to fail in epic fashion if they think this will spread out more than a tiny number of established players.


wrong.

1. the difference between rewards of q0 agent and q20 is much bigger than between 1.0 system and 0.5 system. Especially it's much less for 0.9, 0.8 etc systems.
2. people don't want to cluster since there are suicide gankers in clusters
3. people don't want to cluster because of lag
4. not much logistics is needed - only ammo and some spare drones
5. there are more options now since some corps with no lvl4/q20 agents got ones now. no need to use navies any longer. also, some of them have better isk/lp ratio.

so as you see there are now much more reasons to spread out and less obstacles to it (mainly an ok reward vs horribly low one before)

I for one would prefer some quiet corner to the huge hub, and would move if my current location became crowded, if other options would not make me sacrifice too much income. which is possible now.

Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering
Needless Friends
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:00:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Toovhon

Thus CCP is about to fail in epic fashion if they think this will spread out more than a tiny number of established players.


wrong.

1. the difference between rewards of q0 agent and q20 is much bigger than between 1.0 system and 0.5 system. Especially it's much less for 0.9, 0.8 etc systems.
2. people don't want to cluster since there are suicide gankers in clusters
3. people don't want to cluster because of lag
4. not much logistics is needed - only ammo and some spare drones
5. there are more options now since some corps with no lvl4/q20 agents got ones now. no need to use navies any longer. also, some of them have better isk/lp ratio.

so as you see there are now much more reasons to spread out and less obstacles to it (mainly an ok reward vs horribly low one before)

I for one would prefer some quiet corner to the huge hub, and would move if my current location became crowded, if other options would not make me sacrifice too much income. which is possible now.


Players will group up where it is safest. They will stay away from the systems that send you to low sec areas.

Gondebine
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:01:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Toovhon

Thus CCP is about to fail in epic fashion if they think this will spread out more than a tiny number of established players.


wrong.

1. the difference between rewards of q0 agent and q20 is much bigger than between 1.0 system and 0.5 system. Especially it's much less for 0.9, 0.8 etc systems.



Absolutely wrong. It's the other way round.


http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Agents

Slayer198933
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:19:00 - [356]
 

Why does the Level 3 Missions still drop rare Modules and Skill books while the Level 4 Missions drop diddly squat. Sure, the Level 4 mission have decent bounties and you can't have an influx of large amounts of isk going to 1 person. But, If you were to have a Level 4 Blockade (Which everyone says there is but have been doing level 4 missions for several months and never have gotten one) the last spawn would have a chance of a Faction NPC Pirate maybe dropping Faction Modules etc. i would be more inclined to do missions. Im sure that others think the same thing. Thank you.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:32:00 - [357]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Toovhon

Thus CCP is about to fail in epic fashion if they think this will spread out more than a tiny number of established players.


wrong.


No, right (have a read of the missions article on evelopedia if you like), and with system sec the only remaining factor missioners will - surprise surprise - congregate in 0.5 systems with level IV agents that are near trade hubs and lacking any lowsec systems in the same constellation.

The vast majority care more about rewards than any potential danger from griefers and thieves, and still will tomorrow when the patch is out.

Gondebine
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:45:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Toovhon

Thus CCP is about to fail in epic fashion if they think this will spread out more than a tiny number of established players.


wrong.


No, right (have a read of the missions article on evelopedia if you like), and with system sec the only remaining factor missioners will - surprise surprise - congregate in 0.5 systems with level IV agents that are near trade hubs and lacking any lowsec systems in the same constellation.

The vast majority care more about rewards than any potential danger from griefers and thieves, and still will tomorrow when the patch is out.


Right! CCP: Epic fail this time.

major pane inucabusta
Posted - 2011.05.19 17:51:00 - [359]
 

when i first started doing level 2 missions, i got a mission that was all but impossible for me to do. i manage to do it, only by luck. it cost me my biggest ship, which i didnt have the money to replace the weapons at that point. to gain money and more standing, i needed to do courier or mining missions. unfortuantely, i kept getting combat missions ever third mission. this meant i was only able to do 2 missions ever 4 hours.

if you need to do courier and mining missions, the change will allow that. if you want to do combat, you will not be bothered with the courier or mining missions. if you want to do both, you can easily switch agents ever couple missions.

in other words, the change is all for the best.

Siek Ormand
Posted - 2011.05.19 19:11:00 - [360]
 

I still seem to be getting encounter missions with the distribution agents..is anyone else?


Pages: first : previous : ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 : last (14)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only