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Jack BingKaria
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:44:00 - [301]
 

Its just sad, that several npc corps, have after this change, hardly any combat agent left :(

Zayless
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:04:00 - [302]
 

This change is a few years late.

Yes, there was a reason we complained about those "stupid missions" and went out to NULL SEC for a simpler life.

It is nice to see some of the stupid part (randomness of agent division vs. mission result vs. training too many unrealted mission skills) is finally being fixed.

However, I'm betting the same guy who designed the original mission setup is now in charge of designing the really simple sov system for NULL SEC. He's spending a lot of time figuring the correct timing and cost of TCU's, SBU's, system upgrades, I-HUB's, and Station Services. Hey, I'm not real sure what those things actually do, but the big block alliance leaders claim they are expensive, important and well worth losing a lot of our T-3/capital ships/Supercaps to defend at certain odd hours of the day/night. Something about sovereignty, I think.

Whoever finally fixed the missions needs a Medal/Agent/Playerbase Standing Bonus. Then, please send him over to CCP's NULL SEC sov group for his next mission?

Dienella
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:26:00 - [303]
 

It seems CCP DID leave the door slightly ajar on this change, so maybe some further alterations are possible. I thought I'd list some things I'd recommend:

Leave some 'chance' agents out there where you're never sure just what you're going to get. For these agents, add some inforamtion like "This agent generally deals with logistics issues but does occasionally need more direct military assistance." KEEP the 'always mining, always logistics, always combat' though - nice to be able to just FOCUS on something too when you want to.

Tap the 'fan fiction' player base. Sponsor a few scenario-writing contests. I think you'd be amazed the results you got. PUT those scenarios in game. Quarterly have a nice prize like a PLEX, shiny ship (suited for running the winning mission maybe?) or some such.

I wouldn't be afraid to bump the rewards for doing missions in low or null sec. However, I also wouldn't feed high sec any more than just new content. There's already good opportunity in high sec on both sides of the law.

Now - for risk vs rewards... how about putting WHs and Missions together, shaking it up and seeing what comes loose? "The strange anom. your agent told you about turns out to be an unstable wormhole!. Surrounding the wormhole entrance are several Angel Cartel battleships... all targeting you." Maybe the last BS could drop a BM in the WH or something. This would have to be a relatively low chance of happening - a 'random' off a conventional mission. I'd do it for .5 L4s at the VERY easiest degree of difficulty. The WH could go to an appropriate 0.0 NPC system direct OR have actual W space.... I might be completely stupid in this BUT... I thought I'd throw it out there.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:34:00 - [304]
 

CCP dont want to add in risk-v-reward.

This change was done (My guess) to lighten load on the server.

The top 8 agents in the game have just been pushed down a HUGE level, and other agents are now on-par with them.
This change will also make it a LOT easier for people to find their way to high standings with npc corps, l3 missions will be opened up with a corp within 1-2 missions, l4 agents could be opened up with a corp in less than a day.

They are not giving details (and in all likelyhood, ccp didnt put any consideration into) how it'll change Cosmos, DataCenters, and R&D Agents.
There have been a few changes in missions and the way that standings are getting calculated in relation to those missions though this year that I have spotted, I guess now we can see why some of these changes are taking place.

Why they are moving so many Divisions down to only a few probably again goes back to the fact that mission runners will go to where the best reward is. By giving all l4 agents the same set of missions and the same set of payouts then server load will be balanced and the deth knell will not be heard.

Benjamin Lainus
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:54:00 - [305]
 

I would also remove agents in low sec gradually to nothing at all in 0.0 It makes no sense to geive any jobs to those outlaws. Seriously, would you trust that scum for anything? CONCORD is what criminals need, they choosed their doom. They prey on us, we prey on Angel, thats fair.

RU4Given
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:01:00 - [306]
 

I make a living supplying ORE to storyline agents.....

What is the status of their existence and usage with the new patch?

Thank you

RU4given

Spc One
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:53:00 - [307]
 

Edited by: Spc One on 17/05/2011 21:37:13


I like this change.
This means that overcrouded systems will now get less ppl in it so ppl will be well balanced across high sec for mission running.
I'll move myself to a different system that has been almost empty because of bad quality agent.


Originally by: Sanni Ramiwa
Fine that all agents are using Q:-20 for access; but reward could be based on your actual standing against the corp, so when you first can access the agent you get Q:-20 payouts and then the payouts increase with standing increase (until you reach max payout equal to Q:20)

I also think the rewards should be based on the sec status of the system the MISSION is in, not the agents system.
So if a highsec agent sends you to lowsec; that mission should pay out more.

This will again create systems that will be overcrouded, like they are now

Originally by: Bladacticus
All these people complaining about missioning buff and wanting lvl 4 missions moved to lowsec are all either idiots or people who want easy pvp kills. People mission because they want to make easy money in a more relaxed and friendly environment. People go to low/null sec to get the adrenaline pumping on some high stress and excitement. Moving lvl 4 missions to lowsec would essentially eliminate mission running as a viable occupation for anyone without great pvp skills. And even for the more skilled pvp pilots, why would they want to play against npcs and take 2 hours to do their lvl 4 missions in their pvp fitted ships when they could just pvp?

One of EVE's greatest strengths is that it allows people to play any way they want. You might think that mission running is boring and lame, but a very large number of people find them entertaining enough. Forcing PVP and PVE people to fly in the same systems will eliminate this strength.

Exactly.

And also 0.4 , 0.0 npc agents give better rewards.
You get better stuff for less LP's and less ISK's.
For example machariel for which you need less LP's/isks to get from LP ship than for apocalypse navy issue.


Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:13:00 - [308]
 

When it says the new skillbooks will appear in your hangar in your home station does that mean the station you're in like with redeemables or is that the station where your medical clone is which is called your home station? Should I move my clone since it's far away from me right now so I get the books where I am?

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:24:00 - [309]
 

Edited by: Tammarr on 17/05/2011 21:36:08
Great ccp. We've held a missionhub in lowsec for a year, fought for it, bleed for it, accepted new friends and gained new enemies to protect our asset. You've just made them same change you did when you made all 0.0 equal in money making oppurtunites, STALE.

Atleast make all highsec mission pay reward and lp as if they were a base 1.0 sec system, EG: NO BONUS at all because there is no difference between sec status in highsec where this is concerned.
If you highsec agent sends you to lowsec or you mission in lowsec, you should get paid as if it was a .1 regardless of secstatus
That is all I can say to possibly accept this change, I grow tired of fighting for something only to have it taken away and give everyone that dosent risk anything the same chance. Yeah I realy like this game because sticking to something and fighting for it now means the enemy can move three systems away, get paid 10% less isk/lp but at no risk, while devaluing lp worth from any previusly good agents only found in lowsec.

Yeah. Stale. Bitter. It'll probably bring you more subscriptions, but oldies will go away. not that you care now that profit is all that matters.

edit:
qouted from buddy who is inline with me:
"it is wrong on so many levels that any benefit of fighting for something and accepting the risk of getting blown up in the process gets smashed.
But I bet they will get more subscriptions, and that is all of importance. My faith in ccp going rapidly downhill and so is any will to spend time on their product."






Jehan Markow
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:08:00 - [310]
 

"In general, these divisions and values did little other than adding complexity to an already complex game."

In actuality, it is complexity which transforms virtual reality into reality. As more complexity is added, the experience becomes truly transcendant. If you guys at CCP understood this, you would realise it is best to leave complexity alone. All the whiners who don't get it (and the 55% majority who are already rejoicing at the break you gave your brain) will drag this game down, but only if CCP let them. You don't have to.

On the other hand, I'm glad to learn that the element of connections skills will remain. I guess it's a fair compromise, and hopefully it keeps full elimination of Social group skills off the table for at least another 5 years to come.
-JM

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:44:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha
I decided to move my main to high sec to mission after the 0.0 nerf since it is kind of tough to make ISK in my alliance's systems when there are 10 people fighting over 2 Hubs (yeah, no Sanctums or Havens in our territory) in every system.


Conquer better space.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:07:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
98% of the posters in this thread need to go down to the Rx store and get more tampons.


Is it really necessary in 2011 to associate things you see as weak and unworthy with female biology? Are you 12 years old?

Makumba Aki
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:46:00 - [313]
 

Originally by: sg1jack
Looking forward to seeing how the changes will effect the game.

Must say though I am loving the 0.0 types tears. When will 0.0 or lowsec livers get it through there heads some of us just like living and playing eve in high sec, just as you like playing and living in low sec 0.0.

Seems to me when ever theres a change the low sec crowd moan because its not forcing easy targets there way to make there kill boards look good.

Get over it.

Eve has a very varied player base just because you want to be able to pew pew all over Eve does not mean that everybody does. The game has changed and will continue to change I hope for the rest of time.


We don't want them to force you to go to low sec or 0.0. We want them to give you proper incentive! No one forces people to go into W-Space (which is quite dangerous) but many carebears do because of the great incentives. All the we want is that CCP creates comparable incentives for low and 0.0...

Makumba Aki
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:50:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: Lyrrashae
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
So...

You nerfed Anoms and payouts in 0.0 and essentially boosted ALL agents in hisec?

what the hell.


You bot/macro-using ****s have no-one to blame for this but yourselves, and deserve no better. But yeah, do what cheating, manipulating scum**** ego-maniacs always do, either in-game or RL: Cry like *****es when your crooked little side-game gets busted...I hope, for this reason alone, that Sanctums/havens get eliminated completely. Sure it'll never happen, but one can dream...Twisted Evil

ZeroSec is a bad joke, and it's people like you that have made it so. Well, reap what you've sown, karma is a real *****, innit...


Sure, every 0.0 dweller uses bots.. Rolling Eyes

Norrin Ellis
Venture Racing
Posted - 2011.05.18 02:17:00 - [315]
 

Edited by: Norrin Ellis on 18/05/2011 02:17:06
Originally by: clixor

And i actually do not get the intention, if it is to give an incentive to spread out? Wouldn't pilots just all move to a 0.5 agent?

Some will move to the 0.5 systems for the absolute best highsec rewards, but many 0.5 systems border lowsec, meaning that the agents in 0.5 will send mission runners into the cesspool of EVE. This is the reason why I've remained in Fricoure when Jel has a better quality agent and lower security status.

The simple fact is that pilots who don't go to lowsec don't necessarily avoid it because of a lack of reward for the risk. Pilots who avoid lowsec simply don't want to go to lowsec and deal with the hassle. There's more to the game than ISK, and there simply isn't enough ISK to make some of us want to go to lowsec.

CCP does an excellent job of accommodating everyone. There seems to be a mentality amongst the players, however, that if their personal playstyle doesn't have a monopoly on CCP's love, then the game must be going straight to Hell. This is not the case. There's still plenty of PvP for those who like it, and there's plenty of relaxed, friendly gaming in highsec for those who prefer that. I don't see what the problem is, to be honest.

Nobani
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.18 04:07:00 - [316]
 

Dear CCP:

With the recent null-sec cash nerfs and empire buffs, am I correct in believing that your vision for the game is people spending most of their time living in Empire grinding L4s so they have the ISK to engage in sov ****-sizing competitions on the weekends?

Love,
0.0 Resident

Angst IronShard
Minmatar
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.05.18 05:13:00 - [317]
 

please CCP, make this game more complexe/difficult/harsh and not more easy/simple to play...


The Hobbit
Posted - 2011.05.18 05:43:00 - [318]
 

I can't say about other ppl but I'm going to leave null. For me these last changes absolutely killed the joy in living there.

Missions FTW!

Reconnoitre
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:26:00 - [319]
 

TIME TIME TIME. if you have been playing eve more than a year or two.
all those skills have taken time and real money to get to the lvl's needed.. now i have to RETRAIN them again..
So CCP when the Hell do i get the time and the Real money back every time you do some crap change to the game.

To be honest i think it's Time to Pull the plug on eve.
New games slection ideas in a mail.

N'oah
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:53:00 - [320]
 

Originally by: Reconnoitre
TIME TIME TIME. if you have been playing eve more than a year or two.
all those skills have taken time and real money to get to the lvl's needed.. now i have to RETRAIN them again..
So CCP when the Hell do i get the time and the Real money back every time you do some crap change to the game.

To be honest i think it's Time to Pull the plug on eve.
New games slection ideas in a mail.


I was about to point out a obvious flaw in your logic, but i decided not to. I belive it is best for us all if you just cancel your sub. feel free to contract me your stuff.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.05.18 08:53:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: N'oah
Originally by: Reconnoitre
TIME TIME TIME. if you have been playing eve more than a year or two.
all those skills have taken time and real money to get to the lvl's needed.. now i have to RETRAIN them again..
So CCP when the Hell do i get the time and the Real money back every time you do some crap change to the game.

To be honest i think it's Time to Pull the plug on eve.
New games slection ideas in a mail.


I was about to point out a obvious flaw in your logic, but i decided not to. I belive it is best for us all if you just cancel your sub. feel free to contract me your stuff.


He'll not be the only ignorant player, so you should have pointed it out.

You get ALL of your points back, in an easy to apply system where you can give the points to any skill, without modifier loss.

ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
SUECHTLER Inc.
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:31:00 - [322]
 

If you (CCP) are worried about players getting 50% reward as opposed to 25% reward then why the hell do you have the advanced gunnery skills/accelleration control/advanced missile skills/advanced drone interfacing/ etc etc?

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:04:00 - [323]
 

CCP - I like having a mix of missions and being able to pick what ratio of combat to courier I get, based on agent division. I enjoy the resulting variety which keeps missioning from becoming too boring.

I like having to juggle agent quality, division, location, sec, population etc to get the best experience for me.

I like having to work a lot more more than a day to gain access to a good agent. I like the satisfaction of having worked at something hard and then reaping the rewards.

I do not like it when what I worked hard for is made braindead easy for everyone else to access in a fraction of the time it took me.

In other words I like diversity and complexity of the kind you'd expect in real life. I like having to make tradeoffs and that everything isn't perfect, bland and uniform in behaviour and quality. I like that something isn't easy and I had to work hard to get it, and the resulting sense of satisfaction that gives me. I do not like it when what I had to investigate and plan and work for is then offered up to everyone else on a silver platter.

CCP - you seemed to understand what harder core players wanted in the past, even if you didn't always deliver. More than that, you made no bones about Eve being hard core, and we were a market you seemed to both enjoy serving and reaping your own rewards from.
But now... it's like you no longer care about your core players. You want to attract the casuals and it's no longer enough for you to have Eve as a niche game. Like so many before you, you try to grasp at the larger casual market, without realising that path leads to blandness, homogenisation and more often than not the game in question sinks into obscurity and eventually dies altogether. You can't be happy with a profitable, even growing niche game. No, you have to wreck it all by trying to go casual, and so begins the relentless dumbing down. You just can't resist, can you?

If you had wanted to improve missioning, IMO you could have:

a) made all mission types less dull (especially mining missions - does anyone actually do those voluntarily, given even mining veldspar in 1.0 sec makes more ISK?) by adding the occasional boss with different harder AI, mixing goals up and adding new ones (e.g. have some courier missions require you to pick up or deliver cargo while cloaked and having to avoid NPCs, or in combat have you go through a mission only wormhole or be given a bookmark to warp to next - not always have acceleration gates to get places!), increasing the variety of structures and environment (gas clouds, stellar phenomena, etc) present, have trade missions for R&D and storyline require a greater variety of material, increase the variety of missions and storytelling, increase NPC interaction with the player, etc, etc.

b) given us a few more decent high level agents to space out our missioning. Making all agents of the same level in the same sec give the same rewards is massive overkill and boring to boot.

c) added agents that give group only missions, that still give the same or only slightly better reward per group member as solo missions give the individual player. These would be a lot more fun as a group than current IVs which are overkill as a group, or Vs which are doable in a well equipped group, but don't give enough reward to make the trip into lowsec or time spent worth it vs highsec IV rewards. They might also present a fun uber slogfest of a challenge to those flying high level uber-fit ships. But they shouldn't be so easy they become solo-able to any old player in a Raven. They should require a group for all but the best players in the best ships.

And I could go on, but you get the idea - there were better ways to improve missioning than dumbing it down by reducing diversity, complexity and homogenising divisions and quality. Blandness is not a win. I liked the current system.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:06:00 - [324]
 

I only ever wished you'd spice current missions up. In fact make some more complex. Not less.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:32:00 - [325]
 

I disapprove of this change. It just makes the world more bland and adds nothing. Evil or Very Mad

Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.05.18 13:44:00 - [326]
 

Edited by: Vim on 18/05/2011 13:49:28
Better rewards in highsec, after the nullsec nerf?
Homogenization of all agents so they are worth equaly much, or more if you run in a .5(at no risk, turn down the occasional lowsec one)
Didnt we just hit null with a hammer because it became stale with all being the same?

Highsec: Q -20
Lowsec: Q 20
Null: Q10-q20

That would've been a decent rebalancing, giving incentive and possibily to draw more populous to low with all system having possibly one or two good agents, not so much sheep in one place, easier to hide etc.
Or the high mission: as 1.0, sent to low for a mission: 0.1 rewards modifier.

I agree in full that mainstream is all that matters. Risk vs reward ccp? No. Hold my hand and give me reward ccp.
We'll see, maybe I totaly missed something, but if things go as I think. It'll be my second goodbye to eve at summers end.
Tips on independent, sticking to their original vision game companies anyone?


Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.18 13:51:00 - [327]
 

Sure, making missions easier to access by a few dozen missions is somewhat annoying and simplifying.

But really this is NOT that big a change. Now if they mess around with LP payout values on agents that will simply move around the market value of LP goods for a little while.

The mission changes aren't all that big, except in those small corporations where the best you could do for combat was 49% or lower combat agents like SOE.

Absolutely, some corporations are going to need redistributed agents, or moved agents. Eve missioning is already very easy. Changing how easy it is to find the agents that give you the missions you want isn't some awful nerf to complexity, but a buff to not having to go to evelopedia just to understand the game.

I started this game with the goal of doing high level missions. I got to level 4s shrugged and asked 'is this it? Doesn't it get harder?' Thankfully it did, and level 5s were where I went, of which there are only about 20% of them worth doing.

Point is, this is neither major buff or major nerf. This change is incredibly minor, yes it simplifies it, but no it doesn't make it more like wow. Seriously stop crying carebear tears all over the carpet, it's getting soggy.

Azurun Li
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:08:00 - [328]
 

Originally by: Ghurthe
Sure, making missions easier to access by a few dozen missions is somewhat annoying and simplifying.

But really this is NOT that big a change. Now if they mess around with LP payout values on agents that will simply move around the market value of LP goods for a little while.

The mission changes aren't all that big, except in those small corporations where the best you could do for combat was 49% or lower combat agents like SOE.

Absolutely, some corporations are going to need redistributed agents, or moved agents. Eve missioning is already very easy. Changing how easy it is to find the agents that give you the missions you want isn't some awful nerf to complexity, but a buff to not having to go to evelopedia just to understand the game.

I started this game with the goal of doing high level missions. I got to level 4s shrugged and asked 'is this it? Doesn't it get harder?' Thankfully it did, and level 5s were where I went, of which there are only about 20% of them worth doing.

Point is, this is neither major buff or major nerf. This change is incredibly minor, yes it simplifies it, but no it doesn't make it more like wow. Seriously stop crying carebear tears all over the carpet, it's getting soggy.


I agree.

Dixie Woman
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:22:00 - [329]
 

Edited by: Dixie Woman on 18/05/2011 14:25:38
Why so much crying? People in null still will make 10x more than missioners. Yes mission running is easy, that is why so many of the nulls have alts in highsec, for those times when neuts are filling up your systems and you are so very bored in your safe spot. This is really just a small change to mission running. If ccp thinks they will get rid of mission hubs they are smoking crack. Missioners are lazy animals. They will populate the nearest 0.5 system (that is surrounded by highsec) to jita, rens, dod, or amarr. Those will be the new mission hubs. Honestly dont know why ppl are getting so upset. The only real thing getting hurt here is highsec war. Now when a mission corp gets dec'd they will run far far away to some randar system to run missions, and this patch allows that (cue the trolls saying "locate agents take care of that"). IM just saying it allows a way for war targets to get away from fighting in highsec to do missions. As if it werent easy enough as is. Rolling Eyes The tears must stop about this, the only tears that are any good are the ones I get when I gank you. It keeps the ol spaceship runnin Laughing

Raven Zulu
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:23:00 - [330]
 

I can understand the other forum poster's complaint regarding 'hey we just got here and got all this stuff set up and now it's not worth what it used to be'.

The same problems came up with the recent sov changes - it did not stop CCP.

I'd like to see how this goes for a week or two and then give CCP a chance to put up an "OK - you've seen the changes... now what?" thread.


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