open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked May 19th Patch Agent Changes - Speculation
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

Author Topic

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:32:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/05/2011 22:13:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.

So why not make the choices even less complicated and even more viable, by removing the effect of truesec from the equation, leaving in only three very clear multipliers (lowest for highsec, same for ANY highsec, a different one for any lowsec and a different one for any 0.0) ?
And why not evenly redistribute agents across the entire corporation station presence, with agents of all levels and simplified divisions present in mostly the same ratios all around ?
Also, why "nerf" certain NPC corps by eliminating the possibility for different mission types (thanks to most, if not all agents ending up in a single division), why not reshuffle agents around in different divisions so ALL corps would have SOME non-R&D agents in EACH of the new 3 divisions ?


Removing the effect of truesec has some pretty large implications that extend part just empire agents. It's a reward modifier for large parts of the game and if this moves players away from the center of empire, that's great. Re-distributing agents there's really no reason for, apart from fixing small issues the agent divisions could have caused. I'm not sure what you want out of the third suggestion, adding RnD agents would mean that most corporation have x number of agents that function completely differently from the rest, which hardly makes eve more intuitive.

Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:40:00 - [92]
 

While I think this is a good idea. I does reduce depth to the game agent wise.

As long as CCP watchs it closely and make changes where needed. I am all for it.
The thing that needs to be divided and made more clear is what agents and missions effect sec status and to what degree. Please seperate sec gain agents(pirate missions) from sec loss agents that attack other empires.

Removing one roll of the dice is nice now remove the other one. The one that bites newer players harder. Its easy to see that you get diffrent mission types by just using the agents. Its harder to see the sec hits unless you have deeper understanding of the game.

Manssell
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:42:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Manssell on 16/05/2011 22:45:10
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Akita T
ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !

Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things.
For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.

All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.



Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.


Yet this change has now removed my choices of where I can run. Before I had 3 lvl4 agents that gave mixed combat/currier missions but with 3 in and next door to my home system I could always get a combat mission (to pay for my pew pew loss) and just turn down the rest. Now if I'm reading the dev blog right, none of those agents will give combat missions at all, and I now have to go back and grind standings with a new corp, and by looking for new ones near my home, I will now have to go into a mission hub to get combat missions (closest combat agent now).

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:43:00 - [94]
 

Sound wave I understand most of your points.

but the one thing being brought up that I think you guys might be accidentally running into a brick wall 6 months down the line.

There are divisions right now that give 60-70% combat that are being changed to non-combat agents. And then in some corps your making so they have ZERO combat agents.

Or maybe you are actively taking steps to avoid this?

because it's just going to make the game even more complicated if players want to do missions for a corp just to find out they have 0 access to lvl 4 combat agents.


The Huffarunier
Gallente
The Real OC
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:43:00 - [95]
 

Is it your goal that some corporations will not have combat agents? I ask because I have yet to see a formal way that I can ask for you to look into changing a corp so that it actually has combat agents.

I know of at least one corp that will have no combat agents and I am sure there will be others.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.16 23:19:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/05/2011 23:25:45
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Removing the effect of truesec has some pretty large implications that extend part just empire agents. It's a reward modifier for large parts of the game and if this moves players away from the center of empire, that's great.

It would still work that way, but there would be no fine grain, just three discrete levels.
BUT JUST FOR MISSIONS. You woudn't remove truesec and its effect on belt rats or anoms or anything like that, just on mission rewards.
You know, kind of like the thing you did with incursions...

Heck, if you want, you can have two tiers of 0.0, "weak 0.0" (between 0 and -0.5 truesec) and "strong 0.0" (between -0.5 and -1 truesec) to mirror the highsec/lowsec divide... but there's no need for 4th decimal point granularity here, in fact, it's detrimental.

Quote:
Re-distributing agents there's really no reason for, apart from fixing small issues the agent divisions could have caused.

You said you wanted to give players more viable choices in terms of who AND WHERE they work for.
Having two L1 agents and two L4 in a station but having three L2 and four L3s in another on the other side of the region is kind of "bleh", wouldn't it make more sense to have at least one of each level in both those hypothetical stations ?

Quote:
I'm not sure what you want out of the third suggestion, adding RnD agents would mean that most corporation have x number of agents that function completely differently from the rest, which hardly makes eve more intuitive.

I said non-R&D agents.
As in, you used to have corps, like, say, the schools (all agents in "Advisory") giving out a wide mix of possible missions (with quite a few combat missions), but now ALL those agents are now of a single division (in this case, distribution) which only give one single type of mission (in this case, courier).
So, effectively, now, instead of having people experiencing all mission types from any of the school NPC corps, you are forcing them to only do courier missions.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some of them move to combat ("security") instead ? Maybe even one to mining ?

Or, alternatively, abolish all divisions altogether and have the PLAYER select the type of mission he wishes to receive from an agent (with LP skills effecting the different mission type LP rewards) ?

Fuzzy Wuzzi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.05.16 23:21:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi
Edited by: Fuzzy Wuzzi on 16/05/2011 19:30:45
Cool. I'm excited about this. I'll get to move away from my crappy current location and probably find a nice area close to some prime unpopulated lowsec for PI.

edit: Forgot to ask, what do you expect will happen to mission-related market hubs? Like Sasoutikh or Lustrevik?


The current mission hubs will disband and will be replaced by encounter mission hubs in 0.5 systems.


Ya, true. A lot of people will choose to go to the .5 systems closest to the major trade hubs, but I will probably pick an area a few jumps further away to avoid a crowded system. I'm excited that this patch gives me the option to do it.

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
The more it goes, the more I think the whole purpose of this patch is to dumb down agent divisions. All in all, I never cared what division was my agent... only looked for corporation, quality and system security via the eve agent locator web.

I sure don't think I'll miss the "interesting" factor of having to pick an agent in one of the top 6 "encounter missions" divisions. I think CCP is right in saying this is one thing that should be dumb down.

Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2011.05.16 23:57:00 - [98]
 

...I like from time to time do a mission or two for vherokior tribe ...not for the isk but just for the hell of it.
(coz i earn in different places my plex-s and ships)
...look at it as a semi-rp stuff :D...

Now i cant do missions for that corp anymore coz they wont have any even remote combat agents in high sec...

So.. lets try to imagine i am a more mission pve oriented player , and i am doing the missions for that corp in some gods-forsaken backwater...

Now i will not be able to do that anymore and will have to go to systems full of other players where are pure combat missions oriented npc corps and agents...

So hows that "spreading mission running players more" ?

I dont care coz i am very rarely in hig sec...
But imho it would be nice if i could jump clone to hig sec backwater once every 6 months and do a mission or two (with my brains far far away...not needing full concentration and thinking like in space i live every day)and i cant do that anymore for that specific corp:P


Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.05.17 06:54:00 - [99]
 

Low-sec boost \o/

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2011.05.17 10:00:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 17/05/2011 10:01:09
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.

There's a narrow border between "reducing complexity" and "dumb homogenisation".
If you didn't read other posts, in test server forum f.e., some corporations will now have no combat agents at all. I.e. starter corporations. (Guess, how fast people runaway from boring courier grind? And I didn't mean run to other agents. They run away from EVE.)
Also, you removing entertainment moment. Having a 10% chance to get unwanted mission and complain about loudly in corp chat is more entertaining, than grind 20 combat missions in a row without telling a word. "What you've been doing?" "Well, I was grinding *sigh*"
Make Security agents 10-15% courier, Production 10% mining/5% combat, Astro 15-20% courier. Should do it, IMO.

Aoki Ayumi
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.05.17 10:16:00 - [101]
 

I was happy doing level4 kill missions for Astral Mining, since their stations are near but not in a hub solar system. Very profitable.

Suddenly, Astral Mining have only one level 4 "security" agent, next door with 0.4.......

Gods, I don't want to do level 1 missions again...

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.17 10:34:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 17/05/2011 11:06:09
Originally by: Tonto Auri
If you didn't read other posts, in test server forum f.e., some corporations will now have no combat agents at all. I.e. starter corporations.
(...)
Make Security agents 10-15% courier, Production 10% mining/5% combat, Astro 15-20% courier. Should do it, IMO.


I totally agree with the first (altho in the case of SOE it's gonna be funny to see the price of sisters stuff to skyrocket since a great portion of their empire agents will become courier agents), and making missions homogeneous is a bit... bland.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.05.17 11:09:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Silas Cooper

Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.


Would this include the shading of probe results that have the tendency to meld into the background colors making finding the result again unnecessarily complex and un-intuitive? Honestly, is not having to set the probes to a large scan radius and then moving them up/down, left/right in order to highlight the result so that it may be seen un-intuitive?

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.17 11:17:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Swynet on 17/05/2011 11:19:12
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)


Speculation Laughing

If this is about helping noobs to have better income and so be able to get powned without much impact because they can easy afford to change their stuff: /bow

Missioning/pve is one of the many possibilities of EVE, if it's intended to guide those players to new perspectives: /bow

A little bit of work now about low sec industrialisation/trading hubs possibility and you guys are about to get an A Laughing

Edit: the A is only available after you dealt with your greatest challenge: fix Gallente/Hybrids stuff
OCYARRRR!!

Sathynos
Caldari
BSX Industries
Inver Brass
Posted - 2011.05.17 12:25:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.


Would you be so kind to move font selection to the top of that list? Thanks :)

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.17 13:02:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Would this include the shading of probe results that have the tendency to meld into the background colors making finding the result again unnecessarily complex and un-intuitive? Honestly, is not having to set the probes to a large scan radius and then moving them up/down, left/right in order to highlight the result so that it may be seen un-intuitive?


If you haven't found the easy way around this yet, I feel bad for you son Razz

As for the agent changes, I'm all for them. Hasn't anyone yet seen this is a lowsec buff?

iOSJake
Posted - 2011.05.17 15:57:00 - [107]
 

Do the new changes to Agents mean that all level 1 Agents are accessible to all players regardless of your standings now? (Essentially, can we now recover standings that we may have let fall below the minimum recovery level?)

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:33:00 - [108]
 


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)


I'd be interested in seeing the Venn diagram of CCPs list and the 1000 paper cuts list to see the intersecting "parts of Eve in dire need"

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:34:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Sathynos
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.


Would you be so kind to move font selection to the top of that list? Thanks :)


Agreed! It does make eve arbitrarily too complex.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:50:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: iOSJake
Do the new changes to Agents mean that all level 1 Agents are accessible to all players regardless of your standings now? (Essentially, can we now recover standings that we may have let fall below the minimum recovery level?)

Agents from Lvl1 Q'-20' till Lvl1 Q'0' did accept you regardless of your standing to that faction-/np-corp-standing already for well over a year now.
You might want to keep up more with what happens in the client in future via dev-blogs/patch-notes there..


Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:07:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 17/05/2011 17:07:56
Give CCP a break on this.

This "complexity" everyone is raving about was an artifact of earlier design concepts of EVE from beta. They served no purpose except to distribute mission runners in an awkward pattern and it it made us vet players who understood it all feel a little special.

It in practice it was a crappy inelegant mess that did not add a fun factor for anyone it just made us play in particular systems.


Akita has a point(as others have said too) that the finely graduated true sec is also dumb. Its also an artifact of old abandoned game concepts.
But if they cant manage to fix it - fine well be ok.

iOSJake
Posted - 2011.05.18 02:31:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: iOSJake
Do the new changes to Agents mean that all level 1 Agents are accessible to all players regardless of your standings now? (Essentially, can we now recover standings that we may have let fall below the minimum recovery level?)

Agents from Lvl1 Q'-20' till Lvl1 Q'0' did accept you regardless of your standing to that faction-/np-corp-standing already for well over a year now.
You might want to keep up more with what happens in the client in future via dev-blogs/patch-notes there..



Doh! I missed those notes. So does that mean that you can "switch sides" and always fix horrid standings for sure? Woohoo!! Thank you.

Aroh X
Posted - 2011.05.19 01:34:00 - [113]
 

So I'm guessing there's going to be heaps of players running the faction Epic Arc missions from tomorrow now that the standings needed to access the starting agents is reduced from something like 7 down to 5... probably not a bad thing btw, just haven't seen much discussion about this now opening up to a lot more players.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.05.19 09:38:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile

Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?



Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)



yea, because we wouldn't want folks to get an edge because they take the time to figure things out...

Gothikia
Regeneration
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:24:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.


Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?



Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.


Not just new players. We have parts of the EVE/EVEs UI that are unintuitive and complex for no reason at all. We have game designers and UI designers that are working to improve the play experience. They're here to provide a better product, not to count subs. Subs are a good thing, but they should be a byproduct of a good gameplay experience, not a game design goal in itself.


Soundwave, I had a friend join up recently and one of the things he was confused about was the overly complex agent system (amongst other things), so I suppose that this will be a welcome change for the newer players. Not only for them though, the more seasoned of us when we had some time to kill would like to have ran a few missions just for the hell of it and it really wasn't worth our time with the agent quality stuff. In essence, a grind that was a PITA just so we could kill some time for an hour.

I welcome these changes.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:26:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras

Since they are mission runners, they must be stupid, ignorant people to all changes in game play amirite? Rolling Eyes


i would say more polite: they are just lazyVery Happy

Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras

All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.

here i'm not sure. Because not many people read forums and not everyone reads patch notes.

Me personally would not detect any changes because i don't read any news from first pages of a game. And while i was only once attacked by ninja-salvager i would not have any reasons to leave Cat (my home system before i went to zero-sec).

I think most of high-sec mission runners are the same....

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:36:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras

Since they are mission runners, they must be stupid, ignorant people to all changes in game play amirite? Rolling Eyes


i would say more polite: they are just lazyVery Happy

Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras

All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.

here i'm not sure. Because not many people read forums and not everyone reads patch notes.

Me personally would not detect any changes because i don't read any news from first pages of a game. And while i was only once attacked by ninja-salvager i would not have any reasons to leave Cat (my home system before i went to zero-sec).

I think most of high-sec mission runners are the same....


so basically mindless zombies/aspies and full time employees of gold farms in asia. amirite?

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:57:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Holy One
so basically mindless zombies/aspies and full time employees of gold farms in asia. amirite?

i would say better: amateur people who have more important tasks in life just spending hours in online game Very Happy
time will come and you would understand it Very Happy

Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:08:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Bah. Here goes my dream of agent type specific mission sets.

Bye astrometrics missions, bye manufacturing missions, bye intelligence missions, sad to never see you. Crying or Very sad


This would be cool.
An astro agent could have a lost container in space that is short on time to breach and you need to scan it down and retrieve it on a timer. Mission difficulty is based on skill and time left bases on mission difficulty.

There could even be a mission where the package could be scanned by anyone so you have possible player competition.

Mr Mickey
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:38:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile

Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?



Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)


I would be interested to know the calc between dumbness / avg player age / ccp wallet?



Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only