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Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:40:00 - [61]
 

I also heard they were removing social skills? Would this include diplomacy (and connections for the + relation empires)? Because at this point without diplomacy I can't go into Gall or Min space. Nor would I be able to correct my sec status (to low for even lvl1 Q-20).

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:53:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
I also heard they were removing social skills? Would this include diplomacy (and connections for the + relation empires)? Because at this point without diplomacy I can't go into Gall or Min space. Nor would I be able to correct my sec status (to low for even lvl1 Q-20).


Imagine a bug where people log in and find themselves red? Twisted Evil

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:57:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.


Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?



Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.


Not just new players. We have parts of the EVE/EVEs UI that are unintuitive and complex for no reason at all. We have game designers and UI designers that are working to improve the play experience. They're here to provide a better product, not to count subs. Subs are a good thing, but they should be a byproduct of a good gameplay experience, not a game design goal in itself.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:59:00 - [64]
 

Well I'm draggin' mah ship outa Motsu
Yes I'm draggin' mah ship outa Motsu
Well there's a patch day comin'
And I feel like hummin'
So I'm draggin mah ship outa Motsu

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:10:00 - [65]
 

Some considerations..

A, its gonna be boring to get always the same kind of missions from the same agents, without the oddball to break routine
B, everyone is gonna crowd 0.5 systems
C, I'm gonna miss Bamara Garisas, loved the way she threw out her missions

And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? I.E., if you do encounters, then your storyline mission will be an encounter, if you do couriers the storyline will be a courier, and so? Because that's going to be a status grinding galore, provided how fast are couriers compared to combat missions... ugh

ISquishWorms
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:10:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: ISquishWorms on 16/05/2011 19:10:50
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.


Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?



Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.


I play Eve as I want to play a complex game one that makes you think and use your brain, a game that punishes mistakes and forces you to learn from them. Rolling Eyes Maybe it's time to get that old chess board out again.

Florence Valentine
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:12:00 - [67]
 

There is system I work in with a good lvl4 that is always loaded with 160+. It was a boon for ninja salvagers - hey, I even had a go myself.

If everyone does flee and spread out more evenly, will this hurt the ninja salvagers? Or conversely, will this give them more choice / open up more opportunities?

Cpt Arareb
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:13:00 - [68]
 

well well maibe now I will finaly try to do an mission... maibe will have a new source of income w/o all the grinding required... or maibe not .. will see..

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:22:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Some considerations..

A, its gonna be boring to get always the same kind of missions from the same agents, without the oddball to break routine
B, everyone is gonna crowd 0.5 systems
C, I'm gonna miss Bamara Garisas, loved the way she threw out her missions

And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? I.E., if you do encounters, then your storyline mission will be an encounter, if you do couriers the storyline will be a courier, and so? Because that's going to be a status grinding galore, provided how fast are couriers compared to combat missions... ugh



Regardless of which, it will give people better options than just hanging out in Motsu.

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:24:00 - [70]
 

Crap, now my cozy little part of ughspace will soon be overrun by hub-bears and their ninja/suicide parasites. Crying or Very sad

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:27:00 - [71]
 

CCP: Are the agent types going to be as the presently are on Sisi? I ask because I have a thriving business selling stuff to mission runners in Gicodel, and that SoE agent, on Sisi anyway, has been changed to all courier, which will make my market go away. Unless you are planning to either change the agent to security, or adding a security agent. Are you?

On a broader note: If you want players to spread out from the trade hubs, there need to be agents for them to spread out too. Us players tend to have a rather long list of qualities we look for in an agent: Location, faction, corporation, mission type, for a few. Presently I will use an agent in a desirable location and faction that gives out a few courier missions just so I can get to the combat ones. But if those combat mission go away, then Ill move, along with many others, to what will become new mission hubs.

Please do not change one reason to have a mission hub for another. Give us lots of options so we can spread out!

On an interesting note: players will sometimes fleet for doing missions. When they do, getting a courier mission always is a letdown. The entire fleet sits and waits for the mission owner to do it. Now that will not happen anymore.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:27:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Some considerations..

A, its gonna be boring to get always the same kind of missions from the same agents, without the oddball to break routine
B, everyone is gonna crowd 0.5 systems
C, I'm gonna miss Bamara Garisas, loved the way she threw out her missions

And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? I.E., if you do encounters, then your storyline mission will be an encounter, if you do couriers the storyline will be a courier, and so? Because that's going to be a status grinding galore, provided how fast are couriers compared to combat missions... ugh



Regardless of which, it will give people better options than just hanging out in Motsu.



So, about those storyline agents. Is working a security agent going to give you a security storyline agent, or can you be stuck with a mining storyline agent?

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:28:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Some considerations..


And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? ... ugh



Regardless of which, it will give people better options than just hanging out in Motsu.
If nothing has changed then storyline&research agents are unchanged, right CCPSoundwave?

BTW why didn´t you get rid of the system security influencing agents?
Intentional or too tricky/nightmarish to patch?

Fuzzy Wuzzi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:29:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Fuzzy Wuzzi on 16/05/2011 19:30:45
Cool. I'm excited about this. I'll get to move away from my crappy current location and probably find a nice area close to some prime unpopulated lowsec for PI.

edit: Forgot to ask, what do you expect will happen to mission-related market hubs? Like Sasoutikh or Lustrevik?

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:41:00 - [75]
 

Will the agent quality change be affecting R&D agents also?

(And this is something I probably should know, but I'm asking anyway)
Does effective quality 20>40 continue to give bonuses on the same scale as (-20) > 20?

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:54:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi
Edited by: Fuzzy Wuzzi on 16/05/2011 19:30:45
Cool. I'm excited about this. I'll get to move away from my crappy current location and probably find a nice area close to some prime unpopulated lowsec for PI.

edit: Forgot to ask, what do you expect will happen to mission-related market hubs? Like Sasoutikh or Lustrevik?


The current mission hubs will disband and will be replaced by encounter mission hubs in 0.5 systems.

The more it goes, the more I think the whole purpose of this patch is to dumb down agent divisions. All in all, I never cared what division was my agent... only looked for corporation, quality and system security via the eve agent locator web.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:55:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 16/05/2011 19:55:25
Originally by: Shandir
Will the agent quality change be affecting R&D agents also?

(And this is something I probably should know, but I'm asking anyway)
Does effective quality 20>40 continue to give bonuses on the same scale as (-20) > 20?


Yes, this applies to RnD agents as well.

Craven Aleros
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:04:00 - [78]
 

Negotiation skill obsolete now then?

Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:40:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: ISquishWorms
I play Eve as I want to play a complex game one that makes you think and use your brain, a game that punishes mistakes and forces you to learn from them. Rolling Eyes Maybe it's time to get that old chess board out again.


EVE is still complex, just not needlessly so.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:49:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Generals4
Hmm i should check into 0.1-0.2 sec lvl 4 agents i guess.

My question is: what will happen with my connection skills :|


Unless they change the procedure:
- your SP will be refounded
- the skill will disappear and you have to buy the skillbook again
- the new skill will be a x2

- if you have an unused skillbook it will be changed to one of the new tipes.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:51:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 16/05/2011 19:55:25
Originally by: Shandir
Will the agent quality change be affecting R&D agents also?

(And this is something I probably should know, but I'm asking anyway)
Does effective quality 20>40 continue to give bonuses on the same scale as (-20) > 20?


Yes, this applies to RnD agents as well.


Have you noticed that negotiation has stopped to work for R&D agents so we will lose SP from almost all agents?
(already bugreported)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:52:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
- if you have an unused skillbook it will be changed to one of the new tipes.

…so buy one cheaply now!

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:15:00 - [83]
 

I am saddened my question about standings being used for other things in the future was ignored.

If there are no such plans, can you at least talk to the Amarr and ask them nicely to stop shooting at me?

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:26:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Waaaaaagggh
Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08
so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?



This isn't at all new by the way. This has always been the case.


People are just going to do roughly the following, in that case:

1. Start at the largest trade hub in their faction's space.
2. Find the nearest 0.5 sec system with no bordering lowsec.
3. Cluster together nearly as tightly as before.

I'd suggest setting lower rewards in systems where a lot of missions have been completed recently.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:45:00 - [85]
 

ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !

Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things.
For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.

All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:54:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Akita T
ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !

Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things.
For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.

All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.



And the problem with people clustering is...? Question

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:55:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Meh, everybody will just cluster in regions close to a 0.5 sec rating without many lowsec nearby where several desirable agents are located.


People are already doing that. This change will have the net effect of boosting the quality of agents people are already using, unless they are already using Q20 agents. It will cause very little movement of mission runners to new systems, and why should it? Your existing Motsu or Dodixie agent just got a boost in LP payout.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:56:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Akita T
ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !

Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things.
For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.

All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.



Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:57:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
I am saddened my question about standings being used for other things in the future was ignored.

If there are no such plans, can you at least talk to the Amarr and ask them nicely to stop shooting at me?


These are standalone changes.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:10:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/05/2011 22:13:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.

So why not make the choices even less complicated and even more viable, by removing the effect of truesec from the equation, leaving in only three very clear multipliers (lowest for highsec, same for ANY highsec, a different one for any lowsec and a different one for any 0.0) ?
And why not evenly redistribute agents across the entire corporation station presence, with agents of all levels and simplified divisions present in mostly the same ratios all around ?
Also, why "nerf" certain NPC corps by eliminating the possibility for different mission types (thanks to most, if not all agents ending up in a single division), why not reshuffle agents around in different divisions so ALL corps would have SOME non-R&D agents in EACH of the new 3 divisions ?


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