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Dendel Hypermach
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:48:00 - [241]
 

it's _really_ _really_ unfair that you have 120m ISK in skills that are disappearing and you don't intend to reimburse the ISK cost players invested. the 22.5m ISK you burned for learning skills was way uncool, but moving to 120m ISK in Connection skills being burned is far past acceptable!

REIMBURSE THE ISK FOR CONNECTION SKILLS. ugh

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:59:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: Toovhon on 18/05/2011 01:59:02
Originally by: Marlona Sky
/drinks in more tears

OMG, so amazing... can't... get... enough...

/fill cup again


Go back to WoW if you think nerfing missioning is a good thing. *sigh* Utter thought fail on your part...

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:05:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: JcJet on 18/05/2011 03:05:34
Well, it's all good, but what about an almost dead R&D?..Rolling Eyes

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:40:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: scheve
Ships with jumpdrives are now unable to use jump bridges with the exception of ships belonging to the Black Ops ship category.

oke oke.
why the hell do you remove the option to jump trough jump bridges?


and ehm when is ccp actually thinking to put some more systems in the game?
its getting full.
we want grow bigger also.
and still the remove of the learning skills its pretty crazy already and now with the connections skills. this will be no eve what eve was eay more it looks slowly to get a children friendly game.

i hoop you guys start to listen to the players more before just trowing in.


You need to grow bigger? Really? Ahahaha! I'm assuming you're from one of those large alliances in Nullsec, controlling some 50+ systems, so correct me if I'm wrong. If you are, then all I have to say, is you have too much space already, and I can see no reason why you could possibly need more.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:44:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: JcJet
Edited by: JcJet on 18/05/2011 03:05:34
Well, it's all good, but what about an almost dead R&D?..Rolling Eyes


I'm fairly certain there won't be any change to R&D agents, as not only were they not mentioned, but they are not actually a real mission category. Of course, with the datacores that drop in wormhole space, they might have enough alternate sources, to make the removal of R&D feasible. Personally, I hope not, but it's still unknown. They didn't remove research project management, so probably not.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:45:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: JcJet
Edited by: JcJet on 18/05/2011 03:05:34
Well, it's all good, but what about an almost dead R&D?..Rolling Eyes


Dead how?

Budsin Adar
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:57:00 - [247]
 

An Onboard ship scanner to 64 AU i have to agree with most WTH are the probes then for?? I would say 8Au should be great nothing more.Evil or Very Madpeace all 0/

Sergeant Marcus
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2011.05.18 05:10:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: Sergeant Marcus on 18/05/2011 05:14:05
Edited by: Sergeant Marcus on 18/05/2011 05:13:00
Edited by: Sergeant Marcus on 18/05/2011 05:12:32
thx ccp

JB-NerfVery Happy (i can't wait to the full nerf)
OB-Scan Twisted Evil (finding carebears in sanctums now will be more easy)
Fleet Menue

great, i love it! ugh

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Amarr
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.05.18 06:50:00 - [249]
 

Let me just ask one question. If you paid off your mortgage, and then the federal government came along and bailed out the people down the road who ignored their mortgages and spent their money on new cars and high living, do you think that would be fair?

This is the analogy I'm drawing, because many players have worked very hard to get the standings they have to access the agents they have. Very long and very hard.
Now it appears someone has come along to hand out gifts to people. I think that shows an enormous disrespect to those who have paid the price.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:39:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Budsin Adar
An Onboard ship scanner to 64 AU i have to agree with most WTH are the probes then for?? I would say 8Au should be great nothing more.Evil or Very Madpeace all 0/

To find anything that isn't a basic anomaly that you currently find by dropping a single probe in the system. To find Radar/Ladar/Mag/Grav/DED Complexes/Wormholes/Ships/Drones you will still need probes.

Aeon Noblemagus
Minmatar
Jupiter Force
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:44:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: Aeon Noblemagus on 18/05/2011 07:44:40
i hope im not the only person who sees this, but isnt this a stealth boost to low sec due to all the agents having +20 quality for all the people who want to take the risks for corps/alliances that want to try and do the logistics, though my only problem with be LP is gouing to take a massive dive.

Hagira Zombie
Posted - 2011.05.18 08:49:00 - [252]
 

damit u loose 120 mil for skillbooks and 40% lp from mission runing.
ccp do u really wonna ruin the high sec life ???????Evil or Very Mad

Ordigan
Posted - 2011.05.18 09:20:00 - [253]
 

It is quite painful to see like 0km jumpgate bookmarks and epic black market scamming are slowly but inevitably turning into WOW Online. It's all about RL marketing though and CCP has to adapt to make stupid and lazy, but still payable casuals give away their money. There's nothing to complain about, bringing in 20 casuals for a price of 1-2 hardcore fans leaving is reasonable in terms of profit, but it still sux.

mineralwells
Posted - 2011.05.18 10:11:00 - [254]
 

hey could you guys in iceland send the rest of us the stuff your smoking when you come up with this stuff. hey, what exactly do you like about how the game works anyway? just wana know.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:30:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Dendel Hypermach
it's _really_ _really_ unfair that you have 120m ISK in skills that are disappearing and you don't intend to reimburse the ISK cost players invested. the 22.5m ISK you burned for learning skills was way uncool, but moving to 120m ISK in Connection skills being burned is far past acceptable!

REIMBURSE THE ISK FOR CONNECTION SKILLS. ugh


Let's all petition it.

Removing learned skills once paid for equals avatar devaluation by force.

Should we expect CCP to actively destroy more in game value once/sometimes paid for with real life $ ?

"First we advertise, then you hand us the money, then you invest your money for something you think is permanent, then we destroy it..."?

Emeric Jadgoth
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:34:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Dendel Hypermach
it's _really_ _really_ unfair that you have 120m ISK in skills that are disappearing and you don't intend to reimburse the ISK cost players invested. the 22.5m ISK you burned for learning skills was way uncool, but moving to 120m ISK in Connection skills being burned is far past acceptable!

REIMBURSE THE ISK FOR CONNECTION SKILLS. ugh


Oh please, it's only money. If you've bought and trained the skills, then you can probably make the ISK back in less than a day.

Originally by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar

This is the analogy I'm drawing, because many players have worked very hard to get the standings they have to access the agents they have. Very long and very hard.
Now it appears someone has come along to hand out gifts to people. I think that shows an enormous disrespect to those who have paid the price.



Again. Oh please. It doesn't take much effort to get access to an agent at any level. At the rate you train weapon and ship skills to the point you can run an L4, you'll have run enough missions to get into the bottom floor of an L4 agent, then run a few more over a week and you gain access to the higher quality agents.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:40:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
many players have worked very hard to get the standings they have to access the agents they have. Very long and very hard.


CCP does not care. They could have opted to add extra "magnet" agents selectively to a) please noobs b) influence where missioning takes place by creating a multitude of new centers of attraction... just imagine the possibilities of dynamic appearances of special yet non-storyline agents...

Rather than using a scalpel to carve art they once again chose a sledge for dumb plumbing.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:49:00 - [258]
 

Quote:
Unique icons have been created for Blueprint originals and Blueprint copies so you can visibly differentiate between them.

Excellent.

Quote:
The scroll position in the fleet window now retains or returns to its previous position when fleet members join, leave or move.

Excellent.

Quote:
When attempting to start a Manufacturing job without all the required materials, the quote window now retains focus. A refresh button has been added so that you can add the correct amount of materials and proceed without having to restart the process.

Excellent.

Quote:
Ships with jumpdrives are now unable to use jump bridges with the exception of ships belonging to the Black Ops ship category.
GRRR


Hagira Zombie
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:00:00 - [259]
 

Edited by: Hagira Zombie on 18/05/2011 12:06:26
but rella why are u destroying in game diversity and creating uniformity,
when most of eve players only started playing here becouse this game had most possabilitys and highest complexity.
and now u are redusing it patch after patch

and as a matter of fact u are now tradeing better grafix for lesser in game depth and storyline
just as all the pc games curently

Rock Chic
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:20:00 - [260]
 

Honestly the guys complaining on this thread are idiots.

This along with the other recent changes are the best CCP have ever done.

Removing learning skills and the new character creator was excellent.

The old quality system for agents was rubbish and I hated all the random mix of missions, now you can just choose what you want to do.

Ok, I too feel I'm losing out on something because I have all the connection skill-books, but the change is definitely needed!

All that's left now is removing low-sec from the game so it's Null and high-sec only and concentrating on getting walking in stations right.

Hagira Zombie
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:25:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Rock Chic


All that's left now is removing low-sec from the game so it's Null and high-sec only and concentrating on getting walking in stations right.


removing low sec :D
that would cost alot of players

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Amarr
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:29:00 - [262]
 

I've always found it fascinating and informative to look at someone's standings stats and be able to appreciate the work they have put into the game. It is [was] an enjoyable part of the culture in Eve, a way to see how you are doing compared to other players. It was a tangible way to check an intangible measure of player quality and reputation. If you persist in proceeding with this change, you must logically ask the same question of employment history. It falls into the same category, and you cannot deny it too should be deleted - if you truly believe the madness espoused by your developers and their peers.

Hagira Zombie
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:33:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
I've always found it fascinating and informative to look at someone's standings stats and be able to appreciate the work they have put into the game. It is [was] an enjoyable part of the culture in Eve, a way to see how you are doing compared to other players. It was a tangible way to check an intangible measure of player quality and reputation. If you persist in proceeding with this change, you must logically ask the same question of employment history. It falls into the same category, and you cannot deny it too should be deleted - if you truly believe the madness espoused by your developers and their peers.



to remove standings and employment history wouldnt be that bad if they created some agents where u can chek it for a fee cuz i think it costs alot of processing power to have them on character info

Hagira Zombie
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:37:00 - [264]
 

and btw if ccp thinks they can get more players into 0.0 by reducing high sec income
then they are desperatly wrong cuz those players dont have the time needed for 0.0 live Exclamation

DK Shadow
Caldari
The Micky Mouse Mafia
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:39:00 - [265]
 

Hmmm, a bit of a mixed bag here CCP.

  • Missions: I do feel uneasy like the rest of people here that the game is getting too simplified, however after thinking about it i think this could go one way or the other. The reason it's good on paper is people will be willing to use the current negative quality agents. I think in practice though that people will just shuffle to the new most convenient mission systems close to existing market hubs. It's similar in a way to when CCP removed the gates around Yulai, people just moved to Jita instead and it was a bit inconvienient that was all. More people will get involved in missions and the game will get flooded with a bit more isk. Remember chaps, the actually isk currency we trade has to originate from somewhere and it's from NPCs and agent rewards. More isky means inflation.


  • BPC and BPO different icons: Good job CCP i've been wanting this for 7 years Very Happy.


  • Scanner changes: Nothing but good, i mean the people moaning about sanctums? Who on earth HONESTLY pokes around 0.0 with on-board scanner for these??? Everyone uses a covert ops to scan the whole system anyway so what’s the problem? If anything it just lets the people without a second account be able to get scanning about by themselves and hopefully get a break. If people get killed more in anomalies then that’s great, there's already too much isk in this game and we got on just fine without cosmic signatures and anomalies in the past so deal with it peopleVery Happy


  • Cache: When is machonet going to get sorted? It winds me up no end when after a month of eve i have a 1-1.5gig cache size which includes over 150'000 files???? That's more files than your average XP install with some games music and general junk people download? Also it takes 20-30mins just to delete? Can't we have a few magic cache dummy files of a few gigs instead so the eve client sticks all it's messy crap in those instead of adding 150'000 individual files to my system?. 150'000 files a month... come on CCP.


  • Space: More space! Please please please please pleeeease make some more space already? this game felt massive back in 2006, then warp to 0km made it a bit smaller, then just drives, jump bridges and all that jazz made eve tiny. Make eve big again CCP! Double the empires controlled space and double the pirate npc conquerable space (no more of that drone region crap though please). Also you promised me Jove space in 2003 :), will i ever get there? Sad.


Ok ranting to one side, i've got to say CCP have been doing a top job the last couple of years with patches and new content. Cosmic signatures are great in my opinion and I like the kinder suprise egg effect it has when I get a decent toy from doing one :). I love it when an incursion ruins eve for the local miners and mission runners, brilliant :). Wormhole space I find boring but the ability to sneak about eve through wormholes is really cool.

All in all good job CCP! Almost 8 years I've been in this game Confused. It's had it's ups and downs and luckily the last few years patches have mostly seen ups Smile.

Mr DK out

o/

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.05.18 13:25:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Pelt Recruitment

I neve full length quote - but in this case Jacob Holland is bang on. To highlight the issue, today, an alliance corp accepted members that were there to gank miners. They killed a hulk and the +5 implant. The CEO was clearly at fault but their APIs were clean, the clue lay in the fact they had no standing and so were clearly one purpose alts. Removing the NPCs standings info, makes it easier for b'tards to lie and infiltrate. We train hundreds of new pilots in alliance-and will be reducing recuitment because of this change. -Thanks CCP
P.s. agent changes- good idea.


So you mean that before this change, you got your arse handed to ya.
And now this change is coming in and your afraid your going to get your arse handed to ya.

And your mad because you have the full API but you cant view agent standings.
THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT..
You have the full API and you cant VIEW agent standings.
I wonder if there is any way for you to get agent standing with a FULL api.
I Just dont see a way...........

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:48:00 - [267]
 

Soz, what ever happened to the ability to save personal ship fittings locally once the server-side 50-fittings cap was put into place with Incursions 1.4?

Also, to those who have brought up the significant loss of ISK invested in social skills, CCP historically operates in this manner. CCP has every right to alter the game as they see fit, but that does not mean that their design changes are worth the toilet paper used to wipe fanfest attendees' collective asses or that CCP gives two ****s about their customers' time and in-game ISK investments.

Lastly, as a player who did the grind up to enable level 5 missions, yeah, I feel like my time spent was significantly devalued. Putting a character in high-standing with a NPC corp was a true accomplishment, unlocking well-paying missions amongst other things. So much for that tiny scrap of exclusivity.

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.05.18 15:34:00 - [268]
 

This thread has made me think further about the agent division changes.

The occurrence of a courier mission when you “want to go and shoot some Angels” is annoying.
The primary reasons it’s annoying are:
They don’t pay well – You looking at something of the order of half a million ISK for most of them, compared to the order of ten million (cash in wallet, mission pay, bonus and bounties) for a combat mission.
If you’re running missions fleeted then you have to leave the rest of the fleet doing nothing while you fly the ‘x’ jumps in your hauler... and then leave them doing nothing again while you fly the ‘x’ jumps back.
They require a second ship – though this is really only an issue if you don’t use the agent regularly, once you have a hauler at the station in question it’s there for whenever you get a courier.

However, as the thread linked above has reminded me, the great courier nerf of 2006(?) has changed not only the environment but our perception of the environment.

Would people in general be so annoyed with Courier missions if they consisted of a sixty, thousand cubic meter cans which needed to be moved eight to twelve jumps but would pay four million ISK with a time bonus of six (for example)?

Not only would courier missions of that sort pay at a similar rate and take a similar time to complete and return from to the kill missions but, if you were running missions fleeted, you could significantly cut the completion time by simply trading some of the payload to your fleet-mates to transport, improving the rate of pay but also giving them something to do beyond just waiting for you to get back.

Freighters could be closed out of such missions if it was deemed necessary by having the “Large group of Scientists” objects behave like assembled GSCs to force the use of Industrial and T2 Industrial ships. That would of course be a balancing decision.

However, if the only complaint about courier missions became that they required a better ship (or the occasional complaint that they “forced” a pilot into lowsec) would there be a reason to simplify the divisions?

If we could get back to what couriers were before the nerf (but without people stockpiling trade goods and, through the agent rewards, creating an artificial price floor for PI products) then wouldn’t that result in a better and more immersive PvE experience?

Kara Thrace Starbuck
Posted - 2011.05.18 15:46:00 - [269]
 

So basically I can use any agent located anywhere- no difference, except for the three categories?
If so I think this is great :)

Fedarov Blackice
Posted - 2011.05.18 16:31:00 - [270]
 

Ok i been reading through alot of the posts and I dont see any one else asking so here goes .....

I am told that the R+D agents will not be changing at all through this change .... But that cant be true since i have connections V and that skill is what allows me to use the R+D agents I am using.

If my reading of what will happen is correct on Thursday when the patch goes live i will lose my connections skill ...... dropping my Effective standing from 5.87 - 4.84 ... making the 2 level 4 agents I currently use (and possibly even the better L3 agent) unusable ????

If so what happens to my RP's, Will i be able to cash them in for datacores despite not having the faction ton interact with the agent ? or wil they be suspended until I train the new skill that is in my hanger 23 jumps away ? Or worse yet ..... will it assume the research is canceled and they disapear into the CCP ether.......

Any one know ...... as a precaution i made a whip round my R+D agents and cashed in the datacores just in case 360,000 isk a pop in jita ....niceness


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