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ILikeMarkets
Posted - 2011.05.17 15:50:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
This entire year is nothing but nerf the hard workers patches and expansions. We ****ing built this empire and the people who failed hard cried their eyes out to CCP to help them. So instead of them using the existing game mechanics to win, LIKE WE ****ING DID, they get CCP to make stupid changes so they can win.

****ING PATHETIC!!!!



You've posted twice and I haven't read a word of it because your font color makes my eyes bleed.

**edit: scratch that- I read this post in the quote since it removed that horrible color.**

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:01:00 - [212]
 

Removal of Standings from Show Info:

This change has many, significant implications.
It has already been stated that the standings were used to gain intelligence on war targets (and conversely it could also be used by those war targets against their aggressors, by shifting to a less efficient agent before the war went live).
It has also been stated that it was used to find potential ‘bot characters.
For those dealing with recruitment it provided a method to potentially weed out alts and other potential security risks (meaning that greater planning and effort had to be put in on the part of spies and corporate thieves).
I know that I’m not alone in using those standings to provide an initial vetting stage to potential recruits long before I actually contact them. (Tutorial Agent standings initially and then, after a week determining which standings had changed). By this method I could see who was still active, if they were still active but I never saw them online I could determine that they were likely the wrong timezone...etc.
I also use them to assist newer players who don’t yet understand the mission system (primarily the mission system at least) by checking their corp and faction standings against agents on their behalf.

It is potentially possible (assuming that no change is made to the API) to make use of third party programs/sites for the purposes of recruitment security but I don’t see any alternatives with the others and therefore this change represents a significant loss of functionality.

Loss of functionality has to be countered by gains elsewhere to be justifiable so what is the gain involved, what was the reason for making this change?
If it was simply because the standing list is made up of (potentially) hundreds of database calls as the show info window checks a character’s standings with everyone and you wish to reduce those calls because most of the time people are only interested in knowing which corp or alliance a pilot is in then why not put a button in the standings tab “Show Standings” which would trigger the calls only when the standings are actively checked?
If the sheer volume of standings some people have is the issue would it perhaps be better to flag standings with no transactions more recent than perhaps one year as dormant so that they do not show?

Why was the flat out removal of a tool used by many the best solution and to what problem?

Finally, what is the ingame logic to it? My Agent with the FIO is certainly in a position to tell me that ‘x’ Caldari Roleplayer is a menace to shipping and treated as intensely hostile by the Federation whereas ‘y’ is “skirting the edges of our ire” so why can I not see that ‘x’ is -9.9 to the Federation and ‘y’ is bordering on -5.0? Is it planned to add an agent service which will allow you to see the old standings list for example?

Azran Zala
Fleet of the Damned
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:13:00 - [213]
 

"•Ships with jumpdrives are now unable to use jump bridges with the exception of ships belonging to the Black Ops ship category."

And thousands of Carebear-carrier-ratters hogging sanctums in the safety of a cyno-jammed station system, suddenly screamed out... and where suddenly silenced.

The tears will rain and be oh so delicious.



Cornwalace
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:18:00 - [214]
 

Was the whole jump-bridge nerf meant to make care-bearing in 0.0 space more important to the alliances in 0.0 space?

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:28:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Lyrrashae on 17/05/2011 21:16:23
Why doesn't CCP just release an official statement that they no longer give two ****s about EVE--the game that made them great--or the core playerbase--the people who made EVE great--and that they're just trying to cash in on the bored WoW-kid demographic whilst they can?

EVE is finished...Everyone knows it, even if they don't want to admit it.
I give it, maybe 18 months (Hahahahahahahhaha!!!), maximum, at this rate, before it's gone the way of StarWars Galaxies. And before that shoe drops, it's going to be a torturous slide into WoW-in-Space-dom, getting trolled and "socially-griefed" by stupid children young enough to be my children, all showing each other how 1337 they are...Yeah, real 1337 when it's this dumb'ed down, way to go CCP...

Oh, and speaking of StarWars...apropos nothing else whatsoever (sarcasm), why is no-one acknowledging the other elephant in the room here, namely StarWars, The Old Republic? I suspect, that once that goes "live," then the lights at CCP will be shut off that much more quickly...

I've only been playing about 2.5 years, and even I've watched this game decline on so many levels, it's not even funny. Can't we just set the way-back machine to 31/03/2009 (if I remember correctly)? Apocrypha was the last time anything major was actually done right, imho.

This is not the same CCP that did that (for the most part) so very right. And it's for the same reason it always is, when a company crawls up its' own arse: They assumed that they made themselves successful, but I got news for you marketing hacks in Reykjavik: That wasn't you, that was us.

And here you are, ****ting on us, nerfing everything that supposedly matters, whilst dumbing down everything that we had to work for, so the next cohort doesn't have to expend any effort, or, Gods forbid, use their ****ing brains. After all, WoW isn't like that, now is it, and just look at Blizzard...

TL/DR: EVE is finished. It's 100% CCP's fault. It's only a matter of time.


Darod Zyree
Gallente
Zyree Holding
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:08:00 - [216]
 

Can the devs involved with the NPC standings change please join the discussion here?
As the poster Jacob Holland has written this change has quite a large impact, on for example recruitment.

Emiko P'eng
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:19:00 - [217]
 

As a 'Newbie' pilot of 21 days flight time.

I cannot comment on the 'Jump Bridge' change or blueprints

But as for the change to Mission Agents.

It would seem in your haste to 'slash & burn' the rich heritage of your game. You seemed to have missed a trick:

The Tutorial Career Agents. One is now left high & dry!
  • Business Career - Distribution, Mining & R&D Missions
  • Industry Career - Mining & R&D Missions
  • Military Career - Security Missions
  • Advanced Military Career - Join a Militia or Security Missions
  • Exploration Career - ??? What have those who want Archaeology, Salvaging, Exploration & Scouting have to do now. Mining just doesn't cover it

I must admit I wish I had found EVE years ago. It's complexity & need for proper research to get the maximum out of the game. It is such a refreshing change from what seems the headlong charge by most game companies to produce yet another clone of WoW. That brainless, immature, instant gratification fix, lowest common denominator, Juggernaut of banality that has the temerity to call itself a game!

I want to EARN my wings & I hope some respect in the future. So please DO NOT assume all beginners want everything handed to them on a plate.

Because I for one am really looking forward to getting to grip with this complex game.

Kian Szcezny
DB Industries
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:31:00 - [218]
 

Hmmn, not a happy bunny.

Getting rid of standings from info is gonna make corp recruitment a real pain in the ass. If it was an 'in war' security issue then you could have made it possible for players to determine whether standings were private or public info, and kept faction standings public as someone has previously suggested.

I suspect it has more to do with the db calls reasoning previously suggested, as have noted a real lag in the call and display recently. Seemingly coinciding w the changes to char creation. This screams dev FU to me.

And the mission changes just seem to be a real crock, although should make repairing my Amarr standing a lot easier Cool Over simplified and removal of in game diversity not a good way to go, am gonna miss the screams of my corp mates as they get two courier missions in succession. Twisted Evil

Gonna take the thinking out of agent selection. Don't believe it will lead to the PvE player dispersal you seem to be aiming for, indeed reckon you'll actually see further concentration around regional market hubs as local agents will all pay well, and ability to continually grind combat missions will remove need to go elsewhere. Yes, you'll also see some increase in 0.5/0.6 mission hubs, but i doubt this will detract from concentration around market hubs.

Also as a relative noob, you're also removing some of the step-by-step agent progression that gets you so addicted to the game in the first place, and by removing the need to do any courier missions at all i think again you'll see a greater concentration of noob players around major market hubs. Just made a ninjas life a lot easier.

A backwards and unnecessary step mission wise, only justification i can think of would be if this was in some way a necessary precursor to a whole new revamp of missioning. If it is then it should at least be presented in that way, if not held for the full revamp, either way it does not bode well.

Otherwise a good patch Rolling Eyes

Wes Desto
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:36:00 - [219]
 

i can see ccp wanting to get people out of mission hubs, but theres a reason people go there. easy access to ships/modules and ammo and when hitting the LP store you dont have to go all over empire to find a hub. I do like that agents will now be +20, but generalizing into 3 generic areas for missions wrecks the system. I dont want to run command and like agents because of the couriers, so now i HAVE to? wtf. You guys REALLY hate your player base and want us to leave.

I can adapt to changes, but first you destroyed mission productivity by killing loot and salvage, acceptable. Now your screwing the pooch on the LP gaining factors by lumping ALL the missions together?

Lowsec is garbage, crap rats and bounties, plus much higher risk, which leaves you to join a super alliance out in nullsec. F*CK that.
Starwars huh... here i come! CCP obviously doesnt want my money. Maybe Starwars does.

Pelt Recruitment
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:48:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Jacob Holland
Removal of Standings from Show Info:

This change has many, significant implications.
It has already been stated that the standings were used to gain intelligence on war targets (and conversely it could also be used by those war targets against their aggressors, by shifting to a less efficient agent before the war went live).
It has also been stated that it was used to find potential ‘bot characters.
For those dealing with recruitment it provided a method to potentially weed out alts and other potential security risks (meaning that greater planning and effort had to be put in on the part of spies and corporate thieves).
I know that I’m not alone in using those standings to provide an initial vetting stage to potential recruits long before I actually contact them. (Tutorial Agent standings initially and then, after a week determining which standings had changed). By this method I could see who was still active, if they were still active but I never saw them online I could determine that they were likely the wrong timezone...etc.
I also use them to assist newer players who don’t yet understand the mission system (primarily the mission system at least) by checking their corp and faction standings against agents on their behalf.

It is potentially possible (assuming that no change is made to the API) to make use of third party programs/sites for the purposes of recruitment security but I don’t see any alternatives with the others and therefore this change represents a significant loss of functionality.

Loss of functionality has to be countered by gains elsewhere to be justifiable so what is the gain involved, what was the reason for making this change?
If it was simply because the standing list is made up of (potentially) hundreds of database calls as the show info window checks a character’s standings with everyone and you wish to reduce those calls because most of the time people are only interested in knowing which corp or alliance a pilot is in then why not put a button in the standings tab “Show Standings” which would trigger the calls only when the standings are actively checked?
If the sheer volume of standings some people have is the issue would it perhaps be better to flag standings with no transactions more recent than perhaps one year as dormant so that they do not show?

Why was the flat out removal of a tool used by many the best solution and to what problem?

Finally, what is the ingame logic to it? My Agent with the FIO is certainly in a position to tell me that ‘x’ Caldari Roleplayer is a menace to shipping and treated as intensely hostile by the Federation whereas ‘y’ is “skirting the edges of our ire” so why can I not see that ‘x’ is -9.9 to the Federation and ‘y’ is bordering on -5.0? Is it planned to add an agent service which will allow you to see the old standings list for example?



I neve full length quote - but in this case Jacob Holland is bang on. To highlight the issue, today, an alliance corp accepted members that were there to gank miners. They killed a hulk and the +5 implant. The CEO was clearly at fault but their APIs were clean, the clue lay in the fact they had no standing and so were clearly one purpose alts. Removing the NPCs standings info, makes it easier for b'tards to lie and infiltrate. We train hundreds of new pilots in alliance-and will be reducing recuitment because of this change. -Thanks CCP
P.s. agent changes- good idea.

Galfaey
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:48:00 - [221]
 

CCP is once again ****ing people off by nerfing the crap out of things. What MADE this game great was the ability to separate the intelligent from the slackers. I have played for over three years now, and have worked hard on learning and social skills to give my toon an early edge that most avoided. Now I feel as if I have been moved from the gifted class into remedial. Thanks, CCP, for taking away the things that made us proud to play EVE.

Madelia Tigeress
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:55:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Wes Desto
With the blueprint changes coming will POS remote access FINALLY be restored? 3 months of waiting for a fix is getting irritating.


What problem with POS remote access?

Do you mean running jobs at a POS with the blueprints in a local station? Or is there an issue with you kicking off jobs while being away from the system with your POS and blueprints?


Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:11:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Andski on 17/05/2011 20:12:19
Oh no, capital ships can't use jump bridges anymore! If only CCP had implemented some kind of jump drive capability. If only.

Oh and for the 12 year old ~elite pvp~ mongoloids, CCP didn't implement this for you. Stop pretending that they did.

Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar
Appetite 4 Destruction
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:36:00 - [224]
 

Stop the ******ed crying. The best patch for a while. +1 CCP

Larana Randie
Capital Systems INC
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:38:00 - [225]
 

yo

Jahithber244
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:51:00 - [226]
 

very bad patch

ccp is going to nerf everything

first 0.0 then militia and missions then WH nerf and what next???

if we get low isk we cant do pvp without isk

i can pay for my account with real money but make this game enjoyable
i dont want do sit here and farm 2 days for tengu and fly little pvp then meet some bloob -.-

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:14:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
This entire year is nothing but nerf the hard workers patches and expansions. We ****ing built this empire and the people who failed hard cried their eyes out to CCP to help them. So instead of them using the existing game mechanics to win, LIKE WE ****ING DID, they get CCP to make stupid changes so they can win.

****ING PATHETIC!!!!



0/10.

Wes Desto
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:22:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Madelia Tigeress
Originally by: Wes Desto
With the blueprint changes coming will POS remote access FINALLY be restored? 3 months of waiting for a fix is getting irritating.


What problem with POS remote access?

Do you mean running jobs at a POS with the blueprints in a local station? Or is there an issue with you kicking off jobs while being away from the system with your POS and blueprints?




before incursions you could remotely install blueprints from any were in region. (skills allowing) Now, you HAVE to be in the same station as your bpos to run any kind of job. apon petition they did they're "yeah yeah yeah, we know about it" bull**** answer then did nothing to fix it

Morfig
Caldari
De Re Metallica
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:30:00 - [229]
 

I got the distinct impression that the bar had been lowered somewhat.

The last quarterly report indicated a lack of retention of new pilots to be an issue. Are these changes in part trying to address that?

One of the things I like about Eve is the complexity. I like the fact I've spent over a year here and I still don't know how most of it works. Frankly, it's what has kept me here.

I also like that a pilot has to work his/her way towards a goal to try something. Like working you way up the agent qualities or gathering training and modules for scanning. - If everything was handed to me in the beginning it would be less enjoyable and achieving the goal would be less rewarding.
- I'm just saying.

I just hope the discussions about the items that are simplifications were vigorous, vexed and strident.

Otherwise, nice patch.


Juoi Milar
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:56:00 - [230]
 

I must admit that I am seriously concerned about the changes to agents. Surely its more in line with the real world to build up trust with an agent to get the most payout from them.

This seems like it is to help people earn more isk the easy way when thousands of players have slogged their guts out to get where they are and achieve the status they have. This whole agent change is going to demean everything everyone has ever achieved if every agent pays out max amount.

Bad move CCP - not good at all!!

Captain Thunderbolt
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:11:00 - [231]
 

Very dissapointed, I have spent alot of effort in gaining standing in multiple corps for processing wh ore and the like. The current missioning system was a part of the game. Took me ages to claw back Caldari after I figured out how the missioning system all worked and to be careful with faction missions.

It felt achievment to be able to run the highest hi sec agent and the challenge of going low sec for the even higher ones. Why change things that we not broken.

Very dissapointedSad

Tinteq NoHelp
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:21:00 - [232]
 

i'm guessing ccp has a long term plan, but this list of updates http://www.eveonline.com/en/incursion/features is not very long or have much information.

but you have to admire ccp's tactics of opening a dialog a few days before the next release. Kinda like an amarrian slaver muffling the crys their victim in a damp pillow soaked with chloroform, while the striping away their vestments and plunder the struggling prey.

of course they say it's equaitable -

Brannor McThife
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:33:00 - [233]
 

I'd like to know when cargo scanners will pick up the difference between BPCs and BPOs... and when you can right-click on items in the result and show the item in the market window.

-G

Lolmer
Amarr
Merciless Reckoning
Executive Solution
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:08:00 - [234]
 

Edited by: Lolmer on 18/05/2011 00:41:08
Originally by: LegendaryFrog
Edited by: LegendaryFrog on 16/05/2011 13:52:28
This fails to recognize the difference between interesting complexity and needless complexity. The agent qualities fell pretty reliably into the "needless complexity" category. It didn't add any extra level of thinking or effort into the gameplay. Being "smarter" was not rewarded by the mechanics. It was simply another layer of tedium added because players would have to load up an external website in order to make sense of the data they were given.

Now, if agents rewards scaled with your relative relations to their political faction vs hostile factions, that could be considered interesting complexity. It would be a mechanic that even a newbie could understand (I get rewarded for my loyalty to this faction), while requiring more thought behind which agents you want to accept missions from, and whether betraying your former employer is really worth the potential loss in reputation.


This +1! Also, the more missions an agent hands out in a day (reset at DT), the lower the rewards he hands out, would help keep people from forming "mission hubs".

Originally by: i hatechosingnames
so you are making lvl 4 missions in highsec more rewarding whilst making it a lot easier for people to find you in the 1 sanctum per region in 0.0

do you want people out in 0.0 or all in highsec?

oh wait i get it... you want people to fund their 0.0 activities with highsec alts - making CCP double the subscription money.


Truly, you add Incursions which are a huge faucet and mostly run in high-sec/low-sec and ignored in 0.0, then complain too much ISK is coming in so nerf anomalies in 0.0, and now you make high-sec missions easier to get to and pay out better ( no more crappy agents, just based on system security level)?

Originally by: Abramul
Best option is to have standings configurable as public, private, and personal blues. Recruitment officers should be able to view NPC standings of anyone with an application submitted, and probably anyone in the corp too.

I would favor keeping faction standings public.


This +1. Leave it up to the player on how much data he wants "posted" on GalNet for anyone to view.

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 16/05/2011 18:11:31

I still think it would be better to change the jump bridges to use a similar mechanic as wormholes use to limit what can pass through them instead of a flat limitations which can't be tweaked.
(More available in the rest of his post)



A much better system, and one partially already implemented, which doesn't screw over a game mechanic that folks have spent a lot of time and energy on setting up.

Originally by: Geralden
So... CCP change the anom's in 0.0 because space shouldn't be uniform.

Now, all agents are uniform, excactly the same.

1 step forward, 2 steps back ?


The rewards are based on system security status still, so same as 0.0. I'm ASSuMEing this, as the patchnotes do not explicitly mention this mechanic.

Originally by: Limitanes
...One question though, CCP...with the changes to JB functionality and the in-the-pipeline change to JBs-per-system, are there any plans to let us remove upgrades from ihubs? Right now your only choice to get rid of an unwanted upgrade is to unanchor the ihub, which destroys all of the upgrades contained within...


+1 Why punish the players who followed your design, which you now decide you don't like?

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:29:00 - [235]
 

Eliminating mission diversity sucks. I liked getting the occasional courier or trade mission to break up monotony. Aside from mining missions which were the height of bordom, I fail to see why mission types needed to be changed.

As for agent levels going - what will this do to trade hubs and logistics? :-\ I don't see why CCP couldn't simply introduce some more high level IV agents spread around space.

Dumbing down is not the answer, and I'd have thought CCP would get that.

Lolmer
Amarr
Merciless Reckoning
Executive Solution
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:41:00 - [236]
 

Edited by: Lolmer on 18/05/2011 00:57:57
Originally by: Havak Kouvo

- When opening the fleet finder, when you press "Find Fleet" on the screen with two large buttons, the tab that comes up automatically does a search for fleets using last used filters.

- Torpedo effect size has been reduced to be more in line with other weapon effects.
- On a side note, bombs now have the explosion effect look and size that torpedos currently have.

- Large railgun effects have been enhanced so they have a similar beautiful and meaningful look as beam lasers and artillery. (Especially with all graphic settings at max)


These +1.

Nibbamarr
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:20:00 - [237]
 

@CCP Navigator.. how big will the file be, using mobile broadband therefore need to know the size lol...Razz

Kar Yu
Gallente
CryoTech Industries
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:21:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Kar Yu on 18/05/2011 01:22:36
Maybe the only good thing about this patch is the blueprints icons!

Changing the mission system is good but this is totally overkill!

Whats the point of training, searching for better agents, have the pleasure of finally be able to work for a better agent?

Eve is not = to WoW.... but its getting close....

Keep going and im getting more and more frustrated with this game.

The game is hard! IT IS TO BE THIS WAY! Not to be simple.

One thing I promise, when I start to get kids flaming me in game or in the forums because the game gets easier for kids to learn, then im out and go play wow or something...

Startrek online is not bad....Rolling Eyes

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:30:00 - [239]
 

Quote:
Go forth, Capsuleers, and explore the world outside of Motsu and Dodixie.


Umm why? What would be the point exactly at least those places are fun.

Changes seem to not be needed to me as far as Agents go. Sure it makes it all vanilla and I am sure some will leave the mission hubs but access was more important than anything else. Access as in ammo ships supplies etc.

But whatever nerfing missions is flavor of the year. I am not really surprised and my level of expectation is very low so I am rarely disappointed by gaming companies anymore.

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:32:00 - [240]
 

Not to mention that Incursions broke the number one rule in Eve "trust no one" no we are WOWzer's running raids... epic dude.


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