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MisterNick
Gallente
The Sagan Clan
Pax Romana Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.18 16:44:00 - [271]
 

The sheer volume of QQ in this thread is hilarious Laughing

We've all read the following many times in response to somebody's whinging about being wardecced/afk cloaker-ed/corp theft victim etc.

"This is EVE, adapt or die"

Now the forums are full of "wtf change is happening, ccp hates us all they want to turn it into space-wow". Just sit and think about that for a while Wink


That covers the onboard scanner and JB changes. So for the others:

- Blueprint icons - great news.
- Mission Agent changes - less being crammed in hubs = good, LP value reduction = bad.
- Refunded skills - i'm kinda ambivalent on as I hadn't trained them a great deal.
- Standings visibility thing - unlucky for mercs, no real change for corp recruiters as they generally ask for limited API anyway.
- Still no sign of them fixing the text wrapping issues in chat, it seems.

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Amarr
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.05.18 17:05:00 - [272]
 

Originally by: Fedarov Blackice
Ok i been reading through alot of the posts and I dont see any one else asking so here goes .....

I am told that the R+D agents will not be changing at all through this change .... But that cant be true since i have connections V and that skill is what allows me to use the R+D agents I am using.

If my reading of what will happen is correct on Thursday when the patch goes live i will lose my connections skill ...... dropping my Effective standing from 5.87 - 4.84 ... making the 2 level 4 agents I currently use (and possibly even the better L3 agent) unusable ????

If so what happens to my RP's, Will i be able to cash them in for datacores despite not having the faction ton interact with the agent ? or wil they be suspended until I train the new skill that is in my hanger 23 jumps away ? Or worse yet ..... will it assume the research is canceled and they disapear into the CCP ether.......

Any one know ...... as a precaution i made a whip round my R+D agents and cashed in the datacores just in case 360,000 isk a pop in jita ....niceness


I'm pretty sure the connections skill itself will not be removed or deleted, and you will still derive the same benefit from it as before.

Emeric Jadgoth
Posted - 2011.05.18 18:05:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
I'm pretty sure the connections skill itself will not be removed or deleted, and you will still derive the same benefit from it as before.


There are 10 Connections skills, Connections, Bureaucratic, Criminal, DED, Financial, High Tech, Labor, Military, Political and Trade. Of these, 7 are being replaced with 3. Those 7 are Bureaucratic, Financial, High Tech, Military, Political, Labor and Trade and are being replaced with Distribution, Security and Mining.

So the Connections skill set will be Connections, Criminal, DED, Distribution, Security and Mining. You are correct in your understanding of the changes.

SirFur
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:24:00 - [274]
 

Edited by: SirFur on 18/05/2011 19:28:15
Not happy about agent quality. Most level 20 agents are in lo sec and to make all agents pay out at the same rate regardless of the fact higher level agents are in more difficult and dangerous spots nullifies their advantage. The pay difference between a 0.5 and 0.2 level 20 agent isn't very much as it is so the main advantage really is that Lo sec level 20 agents are usually of more drsirable corps. In any case I am happy I get to redistribute some of me skills again esp. since I got all trained. Don't do missions no more so can put them to better use now. Ah well.

Love the other changes though. And makes better defined skill sets also.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.05.18 21:41:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: MisterNick
Mission Agent changes - less being crammed in hubs = good


Right now I do missions some hops away from Dodixie here and there, call it "remote high sec". If intel about the patch is right I'll be doing missions 6 hops away from Jita soon.
'Changes=>"less crammed in hubs"' is a theory, nothing more.

I expect the opposite to happen, as I'm pretty sure people will choose mission systems close to major trade hubs... be it to resupply fast / cheap or to shorten travel routes to sell stuff...

Hagira Zombie
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:01:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: MisterNick
Mission Agent changes - less being crammed in hubs = good


Right now I do missions some hops away from Dodixie here and there, call it "remote high sec". If intel about the patch is right I'll be doing missions 6 hops away from Jita soon.
'Changes=>"less crammed in hubs"' is a theory, nothing more.

I expect the opposite to happen, as I'm pretty sure people will choose mission systems close to major trade hubs... be it to resupply fast / cheap or to shorten travel routes to sell stuff...



the new missions hubs will bes close to the trade hubs and if posible in 0.5 systems but anyway with the removal of conection skills the lp reward will be cut in half and with already reduced loot drop rates it wont be worth it anymore to run missions so mining will increase and here comes the next nerf. those chnages are kinda shortsighted

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:13:00 - [277]
 

Originally by: Lederstrumpf
I expect the opposite to happen, as I'm pretty sure people will choose mission systems close to major trade hubs... be it to resupply fast / cheap or to shorten travel routes to sell stuff...



Or to avoid being sent into low sec or 0.0. I really don't see much movement of mission runners happening. Unless your agent is already Q20, wherever you are running missions now is going to be better after the patch than before. So why would you move?

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:30:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: MisterNick
- Standings visibility thing - unlucky for mercs, no real change for corp recruiters as they generally ask for limited API anyway.


A huge change for corp recruiters.
Not only will they be reliant on third party programs/sites to confirm in-game data but it makes it impossible to make assessments of anyone who doesn't come to you.

Not only does the change have significant impact but we've not heard why it was made and why it was considered to be the best solution.

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:51:00 - [279]
 

Originally by: Jacob Holland
Not only does the change have significant impact but we've not heard why it was made and why it was considered to be the best solution.


I haven't heard anything solid myself, so my words are all hypothetical, but the current theory is because of huge database queries that are sent every time you check a character's standing.

If that's true, then it's primarily being removed to reduce the load on the servers. What's worse, it creates a horrible precedent. Stay tuned as more gameplay features will be silently dropped to ease the load on the servers.

As to why no other solution seems to be available? This is CCP, they are incompetent.

(Sadly, that last sentence is not hypothetical.)

Fangle Vendor
Posted - 2011.05.18 23:12:00 - [280]
 

Edited by: Fangle Vendor on 18/05/2011 23:27:24
I think that most things from the patch notes are great. However, it worries me a little that EvE is getting more and more games in the game - like incursions, wormholes and planetary interaction, while at the same time the original gameplay, like missions in this case, is getting simplified. For a lot of players who have played for a long time, it is the diversity of the game that is appealing - that you can, and also often have to, deal with different aspects of the game from one moment to the next.

I have played the game for a bit more than 5 years total and even if I have sometimes sighed over that darned courier, I have still been reminded that there were other sides to the game. The odd obstacle is what is appealing to me, really. It can be players or game content that makes me have to adapt to something I hadn't planned for - and that is what makes it so interesting.

To me, when the game gets too divided up into nice little manageble mini-games, it gets duller. Also I am one of those players who likes to do a bit of everything and when stuff feels less integrated with other eve-stuff I am doing, I am not in the same way forced to interact with other people. I have a natural tendency to do that, but the whole "one realm" that we're so proud of gets dismantled bit by bit when one guy can sit with his head in the planets all day, one lady can live in a wormhole all of her eve-life and the next man can get all the missions he wants of a certain kind without ever having to wait or moan just a little bit. And if you're trying in earnest to keep up with all this, and incursions and pvp and other bits you really would like to do, you'll have a hard time making ends meet.

So in my view, we're going to end up with multiple semi-separate games if this continues down this path and we're all going to be stuffed full with cake and never need to eat any veggies, so to speak.

I am all for making peoples lives easier with the nice changes to blueprints, the recent removal of learning skills and stuff like that but I really wish CCP would consider not taking it too far. I'd have been happy with less agent divisions if they had just 1 percent chance of giving you something you didn't wish for, just sometimes. But don't take all the challenges away and don't make our lives so easy that we never have to overcome a problem or annoyance.

You will be raising a generation of EvE players who will quit as soon as they don't get what they want because they're so used to being spoiled really. Dang, I like the old eve guys who've survived learning skills, no tech2 modules, months of crashing 2-3 times a day and who've looked at eachother funny sometimes laughing at a strange error message or gone "heck, who has a hauler, bl**dy agent wants me to move sh/t". It's that stuff that makes pve players bond, much like other unexpected things will for pvp'ers. It can get too much of "you know the end result before you've even started".

In my view, anyways Razz

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.05.18 23:49:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 18/05/2011 23:49:08

How big is the download for this patch?




Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.19 00:44:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: Kary Tamona
Originally by: Deleros Revo
Edited by: Deleros Revo on 16/05/2011 12:09:34
... if I wanted simple games, I only have to go mmorpg.com and pick one. I've been playing EVE these years becouse it is complicated to a certain extent, you have to think your decisions or gather information before taking decisions more compared to other games, and that is good


I agree with this ^ . Some simplification may be OK but part of the challenge of EvE is its complexity. Dumb it down too much and it becomes your run of the mill MMORPG for those with short attention spans, therefore changing the population of Eve.


^^THIS^^

Caldwell Whitlock
Posted - 2011.05.19 00:45:00 - [283]
 

How will the missions in progress work after patching? Can be completed as usual, and rewards as when they were accepted?

Yankee Sullivan
Posted - 2011.05.19 04:58:00 - [284]
 

As new player to Eve, I feel like this change is cheating me of the sense of accomplishment of building up my standings with agents and slowly working up to the good money.
While the reduction in divisions makes sense, the standings change does not. I'm not sure what you guys are trying to do, unless your trying to make the game easier...which is not okay. I started playing Eve because Eve is complex and difficult, which most other MMO's aren't, which is why I stopped playing them.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.19 06:42:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Rock Chic
Honestly the guys complaining on this thread are idiots.

This along with the other recent changes are the best CCP have ever done.

Removing learning skills and the new character creator was excellent.

The old quality system for agents was rubbish and I hated all the random mix of missions, now you can just choose what you want to do.

Ok, I too feel I'm losing out on something because I have all the connection skill-books, but the change is definitely needed!

All that's left now is removing low-sec from the game so it's Null and high-sec only and concentrating on getting walking in stations right.


Remove lowsec??? It's tough to decide whether you're just incredibly ignorant or plain thick. I'm guessing you're ignorant and have never been in lowsec, or died once in there, wailed in local and ran away with the laughter of low sec denizens in your ears.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.05.19 06:56:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
I expect the opposite to happen, as I'm pretty sure people will choose mission systems close to major trade hubs... be it to resupply fast / cheap or to shorten travel routes to sell stuff...



Or to avoid being sent into low sec or 0.0. I really don't see much movement of mission runners happening. Unless your agent is already Q20, wherever you are running missions now is going to be better after the patch than before. So why would you move?


Ahhh.... because after the patch only system sec will matter (in determining reward quality) for all level IV agents??? No longer will it be worth missioning in 0.7 space, say, because the agent there is much better quality or has a higher chance of the type of missions you enjoy than the one in 0.5.

It's very simple - players go where the maximum payout can be achieved without having to stray into lowsec (unless they like that kind of thing, or their alliance owns a slice of lowsec with good agents - in which case they just got shafted), so why wouldn't they make a one-time move after the patch, that increases their payout and possibly moves them closer to a tradehub?

Think.

Gideon Stargazer
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:07:00 - [287]
 

Thanks for screwing over the players again with a 9.5 hour time frame of being down. Since we dont get to play during this time what type of compensation are you offering? That amount of time a person can make quite a bit of money working or what not so how about $95 paid to current subrcribers or a 6 months free play time since that about what the cost would be? Come on you bent us over and dont expect us to cry ****!

Kyluj
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:11:00 - [288]
 

Congratulations on your excellent business decisions that have been made apparent by this patch, CCP! At this rate, however, it's unlikely that part of your revenue will continue to come from me for much longer.

Wes Desto
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:22:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: Gideon Stargazer
Thanks for screwing over the players again with a 9.5 hour time frame of being down. Since we dont get to play during this time what type of compensation are you offering? That amount of time a person can make quite a bit of money working or what not so how about $95 paid to current subrcribers or a 6 months free play time since that about what the cost would be? Come on you bent us over and dont expect us to cry ****!


I gotta say thats the lamest bear tears i've seen to date. your crying cuz you dont get to rat?? go learn about sex and try to engage in it. if your ratting for 9.5 hours, you got issues bigger than isk loss.

I dont get to mission, soooo. i'll go watch youtube or tv or talk with corpies in our Comms. Life outside of eve exists. Or better yet read something.

As to the mission changes as long as they dont screw the LP mechanics i wont much care about the rating, I am worried that more and more people with hit the agents that give high lp, thus dropping the value of modules and implants. But if all fails, we can still mine or trade for iskes.. ccp hasnt beat the **** out those yet.

4CID 8URN
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:36:00 - [290]
 

Originally by: Wes Desto
I dont get to mission, soooo. i'll go watch youtube or tv or talk with corpies in our Comms. Life outside of eve exists. Or better yet read something.

As to the mission changes as long as they dont screw the LP mechanics i wont much care about the rating, I am worried that more and more people with hit the agents that give high lp, thus dropping the value of modules and implants. But if all fails, we can still mine or trade for iskes.. ccp hasnt beat the **** out those yet.


Life outside of eve exists - i'll go watch youtube or tv or talk with corpies in our Comms...

Dr Drafura
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:39:00 - [291]
 

Edited by: Dr Drafura on 19/05/2011 07:40:13
Originally by: Gideon Stargazer
Thanks for screwing over the players again with a 9.5 hour time frame of being down. Since we dont get to play during this time what type of compensation are you offering? That amount of time a person can make quite a bit of money working or what not so how about $95 paid to current subrcribers or a 6 months free play time since that about what the cost would be? Come on you bent us over and dont expect us to cry ****!


9.5h of eve is 0.19 wich is 0.28$... Which compensation do you expect ?

Galies
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:05:00 - [292]
 

Well, the servers are down, so that tells me what is happening.. Thanks CCP, you just told me that the thousands upon thousands of missions i ran in the past 3 or so years were for nothing... I accept the other changes, as they really dont affect me, but, the changes to the missions is a bit much. It has been a note of pride for me that my standings with a certain faction are 9.99, i used to see that as a sign of my perserverence and deermination, and my reward was being able to use any agent in that faction, now a newer player can achieve the same thing, without going through the effort i had to. Please CCP, dont keep taking away the things that have made this game so great, its complexity, and challenge. Eve has always been a game that attracted a more mature, patient, attentive player, not someone with a short attention span, or couldnt wait a week, or more, for a single skill to train. Please, lets remember what Eve has always been.

Jemsterr
Caldari
Applied Creations
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:08:00 - [293]
 

I can never find the thread that has the expected duration of the patch downtime. I thought it was in Eve Gen Disc, but can't find it.

I'm not whining that it's down, just wondering if it's expected to me 30mins, or 5hrs

Qrelk
Caldari
Malon industries
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:11:00 - [294]
 

May 19 Downtime will begin at 07:00 UTC and is expected to be completed at 16:30 UTC

JeMeTTe Jouhinen
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:12:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Qrelk
May 19 Downtime will begin at 07:00 UTC and is expected to be completed at 16:30 UTC


Where did you read that, I thought I'd read all the devblogs and notes - but I haven't read all x pages of this thread.

corthosin
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:16:00 - [296]
 

Just a question,
in the blog ccp says it is very likely that some agents are going to be removed in the neartime because of redundancy.
What is going to happen to my standing towards that corp if an agent which i have done missions for is going to be removed?

Migs II
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:21:00 - [297]
 

I have a question about blueprints. If you look at a BPC made from your BPO there is no info about copying that BPC, but if I take my BPC, invent it and get a T2 BPC under the bill of materials tab there is a copy tab that has a list of skills and materials needed. Lord knows that is impossible to get a copying slot anywhere so i tried to do it on the test server and it said I couldn't copy a BPC. But sometimes certain features aren't available on SISI. I am waiting to build our corp standings so we can put up a POS so i can try it. But I thought, that since there was a report about blueprints, that I could get someone from CCP to respond and take out the speculation for me and then i can stop the focus on that POS.

The question: Can you copy a T2 BPC that you invent? If not, is it something that see for the future. If not how do you get more that one run on a T2 BPC?

Please no response from players unless you are 100% sure that you have the answer, I'd rather not have an answer that begins or ends with "I think so"
javascript:insertsmilie('Very Happy','WebPost','text');


signed: little ole me, aka. Nobody

Iris Khan
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:24:00 - [298]
 

Edited by: Iris Khan on 19/05/2011 08:32:34
Edited by: Iris Khan on 19/05/2011 08:32:04
The OP is obscure. Would be nice if ccp would explain better on what they are trying to achieve.

As far as Mission quality and payout, they probably are hoping to reduce lag in some systems by allowing people to disperse more easily.

Mint Magnetism
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:32:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: Migs II
I have a question about blueprints. If you look at a BPC made from your BPO there is no info about copying that BPC, but if I take my BPC, invent it and get a T2 BPC under the bill of materials tab there is a copy tab that has a list of skills and materials needed. Lord knows that is impossible to get a copying slot anywhere so i tried to do it on the test server and it said I couldn't copy a BPC. But sometimes certain features aren't available on SISI. I am waiting to build our corp standings so we can put up a POS so i can try it. But I thought, that since there was a report about blueprints, that I could get someone from CCP to respond and take out the speculation for me and then i can stop the focus on that POS.

The question: Can you copy a T2 BPC that you invent? If not, is it something that see for the future. If not how do you get more that one run on a T2 BPC?

Please no response from players unless you are 100% sure that you have the answer, I'd rather not have an answer that begins or ends with "I think so"
javascript:insertsmilie('Very Happy','WebPost','text');


signed: little ole me, aka. Nobody


Not exactly the topic for Invention/BPC discussion, however to answer your question briefly:

You can not copy copies. Regardless of T1 or T2.

The number of runs you get depends on both the BPC you research and the options you use during invention. If you want more copies, you have to do more invention.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Invention

Araminta Rescorai
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:35:00 - [300]
 

Originally by: Migs II
I have a question about blueprints. If you look at a BPC made from your BPO there is no info about copying that BPC, but if I take my BPC, invent it and get a T2 BPC under the bill of materials tab there is a copy tab that has a list of skills and materials needed. Lord knows that is impossible to get a copying slot anywhere so i tried to do it on the test server and it said I couldn't copy a BPC. But sometimes certain features aren't available on SISI. I am waiting to build our corp standings so we can put up a POS so i can try it. But I thought, that since there was a report about blueprints, that I could get someone from CCP to respond and take out the speculation for me and then i can stop the focus on that POS.

The question: Can you copy a T2 BPC that you invent? If not, is it something that see for the future. If not how do you get more that one run on a T2 BPC?

Please no response from players unless you are 100% sure that you have the answer, I'd rather not have an answer that begins or ends with "I think so"
javascript:insertsmilie('Very Happy','WebPost','text');

signed: little ole me, aka. Nobody


Tried google or the actual sub-forum that deals with science/invention? And what does your question in any which way have to do with this patch or this thread? Please dont respond, my questions are rhetorical.



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