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Chobimo Shepard
Posted - 2011.05.15 00:38:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Chobimo Shepard on 15/05/2011 00:40:23
Edited by: Chobimo Shepard on 15/05/2011 00:38:01
I guess I'll start off by saying I've been playing roughly six weeks and started as Caldari, so thats what most of my training so far has been focused on. Through my poking around the last week or so it seems Caldari are pretty strong in PvE for various reasons and the food chain, so to speak, for isk:hour is Golem > CNR > CNS/Tengu > Raven. My long term goal is PvP, but I'd also like a competent/versatile PvE ship as the mean to have a source of income when needed.

That said, I really don't care for missiles so far and don't like the Raven hull even if they may be better money makers, so I'm looking for opinions pertaining to...
- Alternatives?
- CNS vs Tengu? For sheer isk making potential assuming Caldari is the way to go.

Also wasn't really sure if this was more in place here or in Ship & Modules, so...

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.05.15 00:52:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 15/05/2011 00:53:36
You want a PvE Caldari, but you don't care for missiles or their top ships?

Wait.

What?

Tel'me Am Peur
Posted - 2011.05.15 01:43:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tel''me Am Peur on 15/05/2011 01:43:25
Any ship can do for pve, just stay away from caldari hybids and you'll do fine.

Unless you want to be one of those rebellious ROKH-MEN who laugh in the face of adversity, good judgment, and well.. anything. Suicidal berzerking rokh pilots make EVE a more enjoyable place, for those of us who are shooting at them.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Chobimo Shepard
Posted - 2011.05.15 02:09:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 15/05/2011 00:53:36
You want a PvE Caldari, but you don't care for missiles or their top ships?

Wait.

What?



I suppose you could say that, but to dumb it down...

I think missiles are boring and that the Raven hull is ugly, so I narrowed it down to what would be "best" next in line, which seems to be the CNS and Tengu.

Granted, I also threw alternatives in there that could compete for PvE such as, well, non-Caldari.

Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Edited by: Tel''me Am Peur on 15/05/2011 01:43:25
Any ship can do for pve, just stay away from caldari hybids and you'll do fine.

Unless you want to be one of those rebellious ROKH-MEN who laugh in the face of adversity, good judgment, and well.. anything. Suicidal berzerking rokh pilots make EVE a more enjoyable place, for those of us who are shooting at them.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Yeah, I figured as much. I've avoided hybrid platforms thus far for obvious reasons and don't really plan on delving into them much outside of a Taranis and a Deimos/Vigilant in the distant future.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2011.05.15 04:22:00 - [5]
 

I'd actually recommend you train into Minmatar battleships, in particular the Maelstrom. It shield tanks (bonus to shield rep amount), has a versatile slot layout (+drone bay), and doesn't need capacitor for it's weapons (projectiles, which also have a huge falloff range).

The ship itself looks badass as well.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Minmatar ships, and projectile weapons, are also good for PvP. It's nice to hit two blackbirds with one EMP L (*badum-tsh*).

Tel'me Am Peur
Posted - 2011.05.15 04:28:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
diemost


NO

Doka G
Posted - 2011.05.15 15:28:00 - [7]
 

Forget Caldari

Machariel

Because once you go Mach, you never go back.

Eyup Mi'duck
Posted - 2011.05.15 18:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Doka G
Forget Caldari

Machariel

Because once you go Mach, you never go back.


You won't go back but you will move on.... to the Vargur. Pi**es on the Mach for mission running. Wink

Forum Alting
Posted - 2011.05.15 18:28:00 - [9]
 

Depending on your style you might get something out of a gallente drone boat. Their charm is that in some missions you can get full pocket agro, turn on you tank and launch drones before just walking away. Come back in half an hour 10 mil richer. The myrmidon and dominix excell at this for lvl3 and lvl4 missions respectively.

That said I think gallente ships are butt ugly (with a few exceptions) and afk isn't my style. I personally fly Minmatar and can recommend them. The hurricane is great for lvl3s and the maelstrom is a solid lvl4 mission runner once you get the hang of it. The Macharial and the Vargur are both top-end ships for PvE.

As for the Tengu Vs CNS thing, I don't fly either of them so I can't talk about them in detail but I hear good things about both.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.05.15 21:40:00 - [10]
 


Yeah, Ships & Modules would have been a better forum for this. That's what it's there for. But it's here now and they don't like cross posting ... though maybe a mod will move it.

You can run missions in anyone's ships. Go check out the Ships and Modules forum for more info.



.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.05.16 07:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck
Originally by: Doka G
Forget Caldari

Machariel

Because once you go Mach, you never go back.


You won't go back but you will move on.... to the Vargur. Pi**es on the Mach for mission running. Wink


Having flown both, I'd say it really depended on what your shooting and if you're depending on LPs more.

Mach is just zooooom.
Vargur is slower both in the kill and the move departments, but can loot as you go.

Also you might want to look into Amarr ships, those things will shread em/therm weak rats (which is pretty much close to all of them in amarr space).
They look cool, have guns that go PEW PEW and light up the mission room like it's a rave.

Nightmare Forever!.

Panhead4411
Posted - 2011.05.18 16:32:00 - [12]
 

I know its a bit far off for you as a newer player. But...

Nightmare's kick some serious mission butt.

So that may be a good direction to shoot for as a goal.

As for now, Myrmidon would be good b/c it can use projectile guns, and still has drone bonuses. And it can be setup for passive shield or active armor.

Maelstrom is a very nice T1 battleship to use, and its a decent looker to boot.

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 16:43:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Chobimo Shepard
Edited by: Chobimo Shepard on 15/05/2011 00:40:23
Edited by: Chobimo Shepard on 15/05/2011 00:38:01
I guess I'll start off by saying I've been playing roughly six weeks and started as Caldari, so thats what most of my training so far has been focused on. Through my poking around the last week or so it seems Caldari are pretty strong in PvE for various reasons and the food chain, so to speak, for isk:hour is Golem > CNR > CNS/Tengu > Raven. My long term goal is PvP, but I'd also like a competent/versatile PvE ship as the mean to have a source of income when needed.

That said, I really don't care for missiles so far and don't like the Raven hull even if they may be better money makers, so I'm looking for opinions pertaining to...
- Alternatives?
- CNS vs Tengu? For sheer isk making potential assuming Caldari is the way to go.

Also wasn't really sure if this was more in place here or in Ship & Modules, so...


Other than the Rokh, pretty much every good Caldari ship is a missile boat. If you don't like missiles, it's time to train out of Caldari ships.

Linda Flamewalker
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:13:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Chobimo Shepard


I think missiles are boring and that the Raven hull is ugly, so I narrowed it down to what would be "best" next in line, which seems to be the CNS and Tengu.


wait you dont like missiles so you are looking at CNS or tengu...

*blinks*

riiight.

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:29:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Cathy Drall on 18/05/2011 20:40:42
Originally by: Doka G
Forget Caldari

Machariel

Because once you go Mach, you never go back.

.. which takes ages to train decently. To mission within a reasonable timeframe the CNR or Tengu are the way to go.

CNR because with good skills it's one of the top - if not best - mission ship. Tengu is only a cruiser hull and by far the best sub-battleship easymode L4 mission runner. The Tengu's disadvantages being that you lose a skill when your Tengu is lost and there's some gankers around that love to suicide gank it - and it's not cheap, although a CNR is even more expensive.

The great advantage of Caldari ships (or missiles) is that to equip large T2 launchers, you don't need to train small V --> small specialisation IV --> medium V --> medium specialisation IV --> large V, you only need small/medium IVs like with turrets. Which saves you a lot of time.
* T2 Cruise Missile Launchers from scratch: 36 days (no implants or remaps).
* T2 Large Autocannons from scratch: 79 days (no implants or remaps).

You may fly a T2 fit CNR twice as fast (a few months) as a Machariel, especially since you´re already training Caldari. A Mach also requires two faction´s Battleship skills to make use of the bonusses next to the abovementioned very slow T2 turret training.

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Cathy Drall
Edited by: Cathy Drall on 18/05/2011 20:32:25
The great advantage of Caldari ships (or missiles) is that to equip large T2 launchers, you don't need to train small V --> small specialisation IV --> medium V --> medium specialisation IV --> large V, you only need small/medium IVs like with turrets. Which saves you a lot of time. You may fly a T2 fit CNR twice as fast (a few months) as a Machariel, which requires two faction´s Battleship skills. Especially since you´re already training Caldari.



To fit T2 launchers, you need to have the missile type "specialization" trained, which requires that missile type to be trained to V first.

Thus, T2 Cruise Launchers =
-Missile Launcher operation V
-Cruise Missiles V
-Cruise Missile Specialization I
-Heavy Missiles III
-Standard Missiles III

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:45:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Cathy Drall on 18/05/2011 20:49:59
Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis
To fit T2 launchers, you need to have the missile type "specialization" trained, which requires that missile type to be trained to V first.

Yes but to train large you don't have to train medium and small to V and small and medium spec to IV first. Which saves a lot of time.

* T2 Cruises:
Missile Launcher Operation V
Standard Missiles III
Heavy Missiles III
Cruise Missiles V
Cruise Missile Specialization I+
36 days

* T2 Autocannons:
Gunnery V
Motion Prediction V
Small Projectile Turret V <-----<<<
Small Autocannon Specialization IV <-----<<<
Medium Projectile Turret V <-----<<<
Medium Autocannon Specialization IV <-----<<<
Large Projectile Turret V
Large Autocannon Specialization I+
79 days

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:55:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Cathy Drall
Edited by: Cathy Drall on 18/05/2011 20:49:59
Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis
To fit T2 launchers, you need to have the missile type "specialization" trained, which requires that missile type to be trained to V first.

Yes but to train large you don't have to train medium and small to V and small and medium spec to IV first. Which saves a lot of time.

* T2 Cruises:
Missile Launcher Operation V
Standard Missiles III
Heavy Missiles III
Cruise Missiles V
Cruise Missile Specialization I+
36 days

* T2 Autocannons:
Gunnery V
Motion Prediction V
Small Projectile Turret V <-----<<<
Small Autocannon Specialization IV <-----<<<
Medium Projectile Turret V <-----<<<
Medium Autocannon Specialization IV <-----<<<
Large Projectile Turret V
Large Autocannon Specialization I+
79 days


Fair enough.

Doka G
Posted - 2011.05.19 19:55:00 - [19]
 

More arguments for Mach vs. . well . . anything

Nightmare is good boat, yes. But! Its best against sansha who tracking disrupt. 2 or 3 rats TDing you and you're not hitting much. Yes you can shoot TD-ers, but not always fast enough so you're not affected.

CNR uses missiles, unless you know exactly how many salvos kill a rat you can waste a salvo due to the flight time delay. Plus ofc defender missiles. All cutting your dps.

Mach works best vs angel, who orbit nice and close for max dps and, their EW is (lol) target painting. "So youre making my already huge ship even bigger?? Well GL with that"

Once again, Mach ftw.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.05.20 08:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Doka G
"So youre making my already huge ship even bigger?? Well GL with that"


Actually a lot of a optimal Mach setup (max gank, min tank) counts on speed tanking some of the incoming DPS. Target painting makes your speed tank less effective.

Usually it is not a issue, until you get webbed. Then things start to hurt.

Chobimo Shepard
Posted - 2011.05.21 07:48:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Chobimo Shepard


I think missiles are boring and that the Raven hull is ugly, so I narrowed it down to what would be "best" next in line, which seems to be the CNS and Tengu.


wait you dont like missiles so you are looking at CNS or tengu...

*blinks*

riiight.


And "alternatives." Reading is your friend!

Either way, I've looked at Machs/Nightmares, but they're a ways off in regards to getting into a competent, versatile PvE ship fairly "quickly," so that I could start cross training for something else.

I'm leaning more towards a Tengu for several reasons. Most of the training, excluding the subs, is stuff one should have anyway, most of the training in general can be applied to Drakes for throw away ships in small fleets, etc. The list goes on and I have yet to hear anything bad about Tengus aside from the potential to lose SP.

Thanks for the input everyone.

Equus Toomp
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.22 20:42:00 - [22]
 

I have a Tengu and rarely use it now for missions unless it's a mission without frigs and destroyers (not many of those)
Tengu has no drones to deal with the nippy little critters - so be warey of getting scrammed.

Not a battleship fan myself and have been flying a Nighthawk. Worth taking a look at. Wink

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.22 21:36:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 22/05/2011 21:38:59
Originally by: Equus Toomp
I have a Tengu and rarely use it now for missions unless it's a mission without frigs and destroyers (not many of those)
Tengu has no drones to deal with the nippy little critters - so be warey of getting scrammed.


I only use Tengus for L4s.

I see no problems with frigates, most of the time they spawn way out of their web range (8 km) so you can easily shoot them in a few missile volleys. Spider drones are peskier but they never spawn together with any significant DPS ships so they're just a minor nuisance.

T3 cruisers have a totally different way of missioning though. Battleships don't really hit you for any significant damage so you can pretty much tank a room with 20+ battleships. (Battle)cruisers and frigates (esp webbers) are always your primary target even though they're the trigger for the next spawn. As long as you're not webbed there's no mission a Tengu can't tank with its speed/signature/small/T2 resists shield booster tank.


 

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