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ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:24:00 - [1]
 

i just finished the setup for my old PC to make some money (bitcoins) my curent rate is so lol 34,1Mhash/s that acording to this calculator will take ****load of time to get some money lol http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php 223 days ....


how much can you hash per second whit your PC ?

Hired Assasin
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.05.13 16:03:00 - [2]
 

what?

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.13 16:08:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Hired Assasin
what?

wait you dint know that your PC can make money ?

this can you see a good n00b setup http://youtu.be/FThX1cDg-tg bitcoin can run headless linux dont need to install all the crap

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.13 21:17:00 - [4]
 

What?

Malaclypse Muscaria
Posted - 2011.05.13 22:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ayieka
What?


Figuring out how to make moneys with the least possible amount of work involved. A time-honored tradition around these parts.

0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2011.05.14 01:45:00 - [6]
 

Is this some kind of pyramid scheme ??

Doctor Deals
Posted - 2011.05.14 09:19:00 - [7]
 

OMGOMGOMG 666 Mark of the BEAST

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.14 09:22:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 14/05/2011 09:31:03
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Is this some kind of pyramid scheme ??

impossible

for those who want to know the value of BTC can take a look here https://bitmarket.eu/market https://www.virwox.com/

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.05.14 12:10:00 - [9]
 

Is electricity free where you live?

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.05.14 13:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Is electricity free where you live?


Wait....what? Uhhh..oh. Ooooooh.


ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.14 13:51:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 14/05/2011 15:40:31
Edited by: ceaon on 14/05/2011 15:25:44
Edited by: ceaon on 14/05/2011 14:55:58
Originally by: Scorpyn
Is electricity free where you live?

i will have to make the numbers, atm i test whit the ati 5850 ~260Mhash/s for the deepbit pool i will come back in here after 1 h of working +1h for the update and i post the income

edit:
in one hour i got 254 shares on deepbit pool
i will update this after my reward is calculated
edit2
total earned in 1h is 0,08203844 BTC
edit 3
from my electricity bill i pay 0,140069 /kWh taxes excluded and on the card specification i get
Quote:
Minimum Power Requirement (Watt):
XFX PRO550W

http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/graphiccards/hd%205000series/5850.aspx
so the card dont even get to 1kWh power consumption you can pile up all the PC power consumption and you wont get at 1kWh

if 1 BTC is sold at 6 are 0,08203844*6=0,49223064 so yes there is allot of margin

in the last 2 years the BTC got 500% value against dollar (similar against euro) if the trend stay like this there can be some awesome profit Shocked

0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2011.05.14 17:40:00 - [12]
 

I don't get this. You say you are making "money" out of thin air ? Or are you stealing it from someone else ? If you can generate it from nothing and others pay real dollars for it, that's same like buying EVE online ISK for RL money. Except that they can't grief others in an internet spaceship game with that e-money. And what if no one pays you anything back for that bitcoins ? Is it safeguarded in gold or anything real that is not only virtual ? Or can someone be sued ?

Kronir
Posted - 2011.05.14 17:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
I don't get this. You say you are making "money" out of thin air ?


Same principle as the central banks. Money from nothing.

And no money is backed by gold nowadays except for gold itself.

Bitcoin maybe worth it if you have the processing power for it.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.14 18:49:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 14/05/2011 19:00:55
Originally by: Kronir
Bitcoin maybe worth it if you have the processing power for it.

yes bitcoins are backed by the processing power that make the calculations

*also bitcoins have no real inflation there is a limited amount of bitcoins produced and a limited amount of bitcoins that will ever be produced
*max bitcoins released per day is 300 if more "bitcoins priters" join the network the difficulty increases
*max bitcoins ever produced 21 000 0000 but bitoins accept 8 decimals not 2 like euro or dollar


**current difficulty http://blockexplorer.com/q/getdifficulty and ofc graphs


Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Or can someone be sued ?

you can run bitcoin over i2p tor and there are plans to make it run over freenet
any user can make unlimited numbers of bitcoin address books (bank accounts)

Something Random
Gallente
The Barrow Boys
Posted - 2011.05.15 14:44:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: Scorpyn
Is electricity free where you live?


Wait....what? Uhhh..oh. Ooooooh.




Dont you just love it when Logic flaws enthusiasm.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.24 09:05:00 - [16]
 

this is so ****ing awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f_e4P6gMA all that rigs mining BTC Shocked

it also have some problem whit privacy seams le police look at electricity bills to see who grow ********* and because BTC rings eat allot of power USA ppl can get le police on their house whit a search warrant http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/are-smart-meters-real-time-surveillance-spies
Quote:
"We thought it was a major grow operation ... but this guy had some kind of business involving computers. I don't know how many computer servers we found in his home."

Cpt Syrinx
Posted - 2011.05.24 09:41:00 - [17]
 

So wait, where does the value come from? These numbers you are crunching, they are useful for something I hope?

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.24 11:40:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
they are useful for something I hope?

yes if you trade them for goods and services you dont pay any taxes because the currency is anonymous is hard to link BTC address to real ppl because you can have hundreds of this address to move your own BTC

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.24 14:07:00 - [19]
 

The short version of all of this is that "bitcoin" is for most practical purposes as good as cash, but cash that can be sent electronically by (almost) anybody with an internet connection to (almost) anybody else with an internet connection, with both anonymity and transaction security being reasonably high.
The "crypto-currency" can be lost, stolen or even DESTROYED, just like regular cash... just not physically, but electronically.
Anybody that gains access to your "e-wallet" can steal your stuff (the e-wallet is basically just a collection of 100x single-use "authentication tokens" for any transaction, new ones are constantly generated while you're online and linked to the network to replace the ones you just used)... if you lose your e-wallet files, you also lose your stuff... if you back up your e-wallet and don't keep it synched, you will lose a portion of your cash... if you store your e-wallet online, there's no guarantee it will be secure... if you deposit your bitcoin in an "e-bank", you're basically trusting a 3rd party to not steal your e-money.

This "cash" is not backed by any government, instead is backed by already-applied computing power, but not at a steady rate (the more of this "bitcoin" cash is around, the harder it should theoretically be to make new ones by "mining").
Exchange rates are set like any other currency, by supply and demand.
This could mean that at times, equipment wear and tear plus electricity cost could indeed be higher than the value of "bitcoins" you are "mining". But other times, it could yield serious profits. It's all about supply and demand, afterall.

Last thing, it's not like this currency has gained a lot of support/usage yet. You'll probably be hard-pressed to find too many places where you can use it.
Also, just like cash payments, there is very little record of who actually gave money to whom, and there are no chargebacks.
And finally, if there is no internet, there's no crypto-currency. You can't prove you have it without access to the network of miners and wallets and whatnot else constitutes the distributed network that handles BitCoin "ownership".


Bottom line, there are advantages and disadvantages.
Both to bitcoin ownership and bitcoin mining.
Only you can decide whether any of those two things are "worth it" to you.
To me, personally, neither seems worthy enough to bother with.

Cpt Syrinx
Posted - 2011.05.24 15:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
they are useful for something I hope?

yes if you trade them for goods and services you dont pay any taxes because the currency is anonymous is hard to link BTC address to real ppl because you can have hundreds of this address to move your own BTC


I understand that the numbercrunching has a role in the currency generation part of the thing, what I am wondering is WHAT your computer is calculating while 'mining' these tokens. Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value? Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.24 16:02:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value?

Not really.
Quote:
Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...

The "value" is not linked to the economic power of any country, and you can send it electronically and (almost) anonymously.
But other than that, it's pretty much the same thing, yeah.

Cpt Syrinx
Posted - 2011.05.24 16:31:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Cpt Syrinx on 24/05/2011 16:32:26
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value?

Not really.
Quote:
Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...

The "value" is not linked to the economic power of any country, and you can send it electronically and (almost) anonymously.
But other than that, it's pretty much the same thing, yeah.


I am probably not getting the economic intricacies of having a currency with no actual value, but then why would ANYONE exchange these things for 'normal' currencies, or anything of value really, since the tokens apparently represent nothing other than time spent by a computer stressing itself with no actual purpose but to convert power into heat and these tokens... ugh
Or is that the basis for their value? Power spent and hardware investment? Is the power of 'people doing economy' that strong, to cause such deflation already in its relatively short existence?

edit: And would it last?

Cornwalace
Posted - 2011.05.24 17:01:00 - [23]
 

This is what I understand.

New money type that isn't backed by a government that needs computers to actually be worth something, depending on if people use itQuestion

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.24 17:47:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 24/05/2011 18:02:30
Originally by: Cornwalace
This is what I understand.
New money type that isn't backed by a government that needs computers to actually be worth something, depending on if people use itQuestion

Pretty much that, yes.

Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
I am probably not getting the economic intricacies of having a currency with no actual value, but then why would ANYONE exchange these things for 'normal' currencies, or anything of value really, since the tokens apparently represent nothing other than time spent by a computer stressing itself with no actual purpose but to convert power into heat and these tokens.

None of the currencies in circulation right now have much or ANY intrinsic value whatsoever nowadays to begin with anyway, so there's not much of a difference.

Quote:
Or is that the basis for their value? Power spent and hardware investment? Is the power of 'people doing economy' that strong, to cause such deflation already in its relatively short existence? edit: And would it last?

The whole point is to have a soft-capped amount of extremely hard (hopefully next to impossible) to counterfit, fungible, easily divisible and (mostly anonymously) easily exchangeable online currency.
Its value will directly be dictated by supply and demand, and could oscillate between next to worthless up to incredibly valuable, all depending on how many people adopt it, and on whether any "security holes" can be poked into the system or not.

As to whether it will last or not... hmm, who knows ?
Personally, what I don't like is that the method of "generation" is useless for any other purposes that just generating it.
Then again, pretty much the same thing can be said about any real-life currency.


P.S.
I'm not hoping for much from this particular currency, but it's at least an interesting experiment.
To watch, that is. I almost certainly won't be participating any time soon in any of it.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.24 18:14:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 24/05/2011 18:24:43
Edited by: ceaon on 24/05/2011 18:15:16
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
they are useful for something I hope?

yes if you trade them for goods and services you dont pay any taxes because the currency is anonymous is hard to link BTC address to real ppl because you can have hundreds of this address to move your own BTC


I understand that the numbercrunching has a role in the currency generation part of the thing, what I am wondering is WHAT your computer is calculating while 'mining' these tokens. Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value? Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...

oh boy this is hard to explain it all go to prime numbers and how the crypt behind credit card works
primer numbers 7 31 21 101
why this work ? because there is no formula for predicting a prime number other that making a test case by case
how credit card works it take 2 long ass prime numbers at multiply them to get a long ass 128bit number there is no way to predict them other that testing number by number

dont take my work for granted i dint check le source code and read all the documentation

bitcoin use sha 256 crypto
how the bitcoin work
there was a mom block or genesis block and for this example the block will have 1 number 7 now the network compete to discover the second block based on that block that haz to be other prime number and some node on the network make 7x3=21 and bingo that node haz discovered a new prime number and created the block number 2 now all the nodes from the network "check" the block number 2 and say yes 7x3=21 and is a prime number
the reward for 1 discovered block is 50 btc today in 2012 will be 25
stuff dont work so simple now because there is a difficulty level that increase overtime so cap the amount of bitcoin produced each day that last difficulty jump was by 55% Shocked and the prime number must start whit a X amount of 0(zero) to create a new block and reward yourself whit BTC

for more stuff take a look here http://blockexplorer.com/q

Originally by: Cpt Syrinx

Or is that the basis for their value? Power spent and hardware investment? Is the power of 'people doing economy' that strong, to cause such deflation already in its relatively short existence?

edit: And would it last?

GTC is like gold a finite amount of BTC can be "made" there will be only 21 000 000 BTC ever created when the number is reached it stops you cant mine any more BTC the only thing you can make is earn transaction fees by validating transactions
according to the story BTC gained 500% more value VS dollar since release
check this site for stats http://bitcoinwatch.com/

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.24 18:23:00 - [26]
 

That's not what he asked.
He asked if the calculations themselves are useful for anything else except just generating bitcoins.
And they're not.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.05.24 18:27:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 24/05/2011 18:33:02
Originally by: Akita T
That's not what he asked.
He asked if the calculations themselves are useful for anything else except just generating bitcoins.
And they're not.

Quote:
now all the nodes from the network "check" the block number 2 and say yes 7x3=21 and is a prime number


Quote:
when the number is reached it stops you cant mine any more BTC the only thing you can make is earn transaction fees by validating transactions




edit
example latest block from the network ATM http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000b76e38b396f1ab4587c60dd752cc4dcb59578a90717af939f06
you ca see that someone got a 50 BTC reward and there are other transaction on that block all this transactions need to be checked there are required a number of confirmations that can range from 100 confirmation to several thousands

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.24 18:35:00 - [28]
 

You still don't get what he's asking and what I answered, I see.

Here's a different phrasing
Linkage

"Why can't it be doing something useful for humanity instead?

SHA-256 hashing has very specific properties that we need. In particular, it generates (with predictable CPU required) numbers that are for all practical purposes purely random, but in a way that is easily verifiable. There are no known "beneficial" calculations that could replace this. This CPU time and electricity is not entirely wasted, though: it helps protect the network from attack."

Basically, the calculations needed to generate bitcoins are useful just for generating (and maintaining the security) of bitcoins, WITH NO OTHER practical applications whatsoever.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:56:00 - [29]
 

How is this not a kind of a pyramid scheme?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.24 20:59:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
How is this not a kind of a pyramid scheme?

How is this anything like a pyramid scheme, in a way regular RL currency isn't too ?


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