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Izaac Newton
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.13 10:19:00 - [1]
 

Hi there, I am very interested in learning how to make my own tools for EVE as a hobby and to learn some new skills hopefully, So to get started, what language / software would you use to get started?

No need to go into depth about difficulty and having almost no experience bla bla bla, I just need a point in the direction of what I could use to learn and have a play around, my first guess was visual studio or something but im prob well off and its been a long time since turbo pascal and basic lol !

cheers

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:03:00 - [2]
 

I am a novice programmer and chose C# which is used by Free Visual Studio Express 2010 to help me learn web development using the EVE API. It's debugger is really good. And using EVEAI which is a wrapper for accessing the EVE API for c#/vb in visual studio. What is good about EVEAI is that it has a test utility that retrieves Eve character api account info into a format that shows the data structure of the received api call.

Though most people use php to do eve api coding. I chose the Microsoft path so I could learn commercial web developer skills.

DobbianSaberion
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:42:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: DobbianSaberion on 13/05/2011 11:47:47
See my post:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509364

Check out wether you like it or not. There is a contest going on for that language, so while you learn to use it maybe you can win a prize :)

I would say this language is perfect for someone who just want some quick results on a hobby scale. It's incredible fast to get data, just modify the url in the example in my post.

Example:
Address←'http://api.eve-online.com/char/WalletTransactions.csv.aspx?'
gives you wallet transactions in csv format

Address←'http://api.eve-online.com/char/Killlog.xml.aspx?'
gives you kill log in xml format

See http://wiki.eve-id.net/APIv2_Page_Index for adresses to different data

Enu Zembasi
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:02:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Enu Zembasi on 13/05/2011 13:02:32
Originally by: Vogue
Though most people use php to do eve api coding. I chose the Microsoft path so I could learn commercial web developer skills.
Flamebait, but I'll take it. Facebook is made with PHP. Actually, any website that isn't using MS Windows for its server can't use C#/.NET. Sure there is Mono for Linux, but don't make me laugh.

EVE API is pretty much language agnostic, simple XML files that can be parsed by pretty much anything, even that bizzaro language mentioned by Dobbian. I would stay away from C#/.NET, unless you have extra $ for Windows hosting. You are probably better off with Java rather than C#, with is more or less its copy made by MS, but Java supports so much more platforms. If you want desktop client, then PHP is a bad choice, while Java remains viable.

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:37:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Vogue on 13/05/2011 14:43:50
There are many different tools in the development supermarket. Visual Studio does excel in offering web control templates that can be modified with a few lines of code. Such as the obout grid that allows you to have a character skill sheet with collapsible columns for each skill group.

Easy Eclipse offers an IDE for Java, PHP, and LAMP.

As for web hosting microsoft web hosting is still around 5-10+ month. And on a time\effort basis for doing the code in the first place the cost of web hosting is cheap.

I will admit I am a novice programmer and I half hack my way to sound code. Which is why I would be lost without Visual Studio's excellent IDE that has intellisense code prediction and run time variable inspection.


Izaac Newton
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.13 15:26:00 - [6]
 

Thanks for that guys, that was excellent! Ill be sure to do my research on them, I think java may be the go tho, but we will see. Ive wanted to learn about api programming for awhile so what better source of inspiration for ideas than with EVE :)


Desmont McCallock
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:11:00 - [7]
 

I'm too a novice programmer and learned C# from scratch over a year and a half ago just to be able to take EVEMon a step further.
Visual Studio (VS) has been a very good companion and, truth be told, I wouldn't had gone too far without it.

Now I'm trying to get into PHP.
I was recommended Zend Studio or PHPStorm but nothing can reach the "experience" I have with VS.
An alternative is to use VS.PHP. Haven't tried it yet, but as soon as I can get my hands on a copy, I will.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:22:00 - [8]
 

Is this just for a hobby? Are you considering turning this into a redirection into a professional programming career?

And yes that does make a difference.

PM me if you want advice either way. I've been programming professionally for about 32 years now. Basically the path you want to take depends entirely on where you want to go.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.05.13 22:55:00 - [9]
 

A quick quote re. "Which language to use?":

It's not the paintbrush, it's the artist.

You can produce terrible apps in any language and you can produce good apps in any language.

Granted, some languages tend to favor certain tasks. But an experienced coder with <not so good language for task> will code the hell out of a newbie who uses <perfect language for task>.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2011.05.13 23:14:00 - [10]
 

I do a little coding on my own as a hobby. Mainly like the OP, simple custom tools to help out with game-related stuff. Reading API, etc. I've dabbled in a number of languages over the years and the language I'm really liking for what I do these days is Python. It has its pluses and minuses but a very enjoyable and powerful language to use overall.

Just my 2 cents.
-PL

Iasius
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.05.14 00:05:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Iasius on 14/05/2011 00:09:09
For the Linux Apache MySQL Php route I recommend http://www.turnkeylinux.org/ for shrink wrapped lean working Linux virtual machines. The great thing with virtual machines is that you can take a snapshot of the vm when it is in a stable state or you are learning Linux and are about to make a change you are not sure will be successful. If a modification fails in some way you can rollback to a previous snapshot. Using apt-get install xxx you can put a lot more functionality on the vm as you require.

If you want to learn php then the Joomla 1.5 turnkey linux vm is ideal. Use that with Joomla In Eve plugins.

Izaac Newton
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.14 01:59:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Izaac Newton on 14/05/2011 02:03:44
Well it is mainly for hobby reasons, and if i love it maybe expand my career in that direction. Hel, you are so true with that comment about the artist.

I would like to use a language that will integrate with websites, and it would be cool to try something for a android or iphone down the track, so my first instinct is java, at the same time tho a stand alone app would be neat but lets not go too overboard yet.

I am more inclined to sway to visual studio tho due to being familiar with past visual basic versions..

How about starting with getting perhaps a website up and running that can call on api data etc, but heres the thing.
I very much WANT to learn a bit of code and how its actually working along the way because at least for web dev i have always used the WYSIWYG Stuff and feels like cheating.

I don't want to cut n paste someone else's hard work, pinch ideas? yes and put my own touch in where i can so it feels like I actually did it. :s so the next thing is if Java is right.. which flavor or suite? i went to the website and there is soooo much to choose from.

Thank you for the continued help on this mission :)

Lutz Major
Posted - 2011.05.14 03:16:00 - [13]
 

Java \o/

A very powerful choice. Install Eclipse or NetBeans as IDE. My favourite is IntelliJ, but its commercial.

You'd also want to take a look at JAXB (and XPath) to handle XML stuff the convenient way.
Let me know if you'd like some sample code.


Java for the win, PHP for the kiddies Very Happy

I'm kidding!

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.05.14 09:28:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Izaac Newton

How about starting with getting perhaps a website up and running that can call on api data etc, but heres the thing.



Ah, see, here's a criteria for your language of choice. Until you run your own server, your choice is limited by the environment your hoster provides for the web server. Although you can do "web stuff" with pretty much any lanuguage (as soon as it supports STDIN/STDOUT, your good to go), in reality hosters provide a very small set of languages to choose from.

I'm an MS user myself and the little web stuff I do is therefore MS based (ASP), but if I had to start again with web development, I'd most likely use PHP or Python these days.

Desmont McCallock
Posted - 2011.05.14 11:15:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Desmont McCallock on 14/05/2011 11:16:38
OK, let's put this to a diff level.

If you are looking for a programming language that can be used in either Desktop apps or Web apps, .NET languages (preferable C#), Java or Python is your choice.

If you are looking for only Web apps you go for PHP or Javascript, as chances to find free host with PHP-MySQL support are better than .NET-MSSQL.

In case your endeavor into programming leads you into thinking of doing it as a profession, then look into your local market and see what is the most wanted programming language, giving you better chances for a professional career.

Note: The above are conclusions from personal experience and are subjected to debate.



Izaac Newton
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.15 00:33:00 - [16]
 

Ok, so basically here in NZ anything .net or java will help you go far in I.T. (which i currently am in as just a techie)

My favorite and most respected eve app that i love is evewalletaware so i want to make something like that but that can also be integrated into our corps website. hosting platform is of no matter as we can swing both ways baby yeh! lol, so the ball is still in Java's court I think. I downloaded netbeans so I think ill have a play with that,

Desmont McCallock
Posted - 2011.05.15 13:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Izaac Newton
Ok, so basically here in NZ anything .net or java will help you go far in I.T. (which i currently am in as just a techie)

My favorite and most respected eve app that i love is evewalletaware so i want to make something like that but that can also be integrated into our corps website. hosting platform is of no matter as we can swing both ways baby yeh! lol, so the ball is still in Java's court I think. I downloaded netbeans so I think ill have a play with that,


Looks like a good choice if we take into consideration that Android apps development also uses Java.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:44:00 - [18]
 

One point; regardless of what scripting or compiled language you end up choosing you will still have to learn client-side Javascript, (x)HTML and CSS. Strangely enough if you look around you can actually make a pretty decent business just from those three elements alone.

PaulRPG
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:00:00 - [19]
 

You select a language for the task.

If you want to learn some programming skills, I would suggest Python. It's a really easy scripting language in which you can learn all the basics you need to move onto other languages.

While this isn't usually used to program websites - django being an exception - you can use it to pull API information.

The main reason I would say python over say java is simplicity, your not looking to build the next evemon, but python was designed for rapid prototyping, you see results very quick.

For example, python hello world:
print "hello world"

Java hello world:
class main{
public static void main(int argc, String argv[]){
System.out.println("hello world");
}

C/C++ is another option, but don't get ahead of yourself. PHP is another good language as its a language I find very similar to python, however unless you ran a web server on your PC you would need to get all your code hosted.

PHP's hello world:
echo "hello world";

Inbefore Python is ****: powerful scripting language which is being used more and more. See battlefield 2, eve online.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:37:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 19/05/2011 10:40:05
Originally by: PaulRPG
PHP is another good language as its a language I find very similar to python, however unless you ran a web server on your PC you would need to get all your code hosted.

PHP's hello world:
echo "hello world";

Inbefore Python is ****: powerful scripting language which is being used more and more. See battlefield 2, eve online.

Both PHP and Python are binary safe, very extensible and provide ability to build native GUI applications.

And no, for PHP, you don't need a webserver. Every PHP distribution contains a CLI executable (or in case of Debian/RedHat, you have to install php#-cli in addition/instead of CGI/webserver module)
The advantage of PHP over Python is it's innate dedication to being a server-side HTTP handler.
Thus unlike Python, it have separate functions to deal with technical information. (Headers, yep.)

Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:47:00 - [21]
 

Yapeal is a good example of how PHP can be used to do CLI programming vs the more normal role it is used for in server side scripting of web pages.

Izaac Newton
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.20 01:29:00 - [22]
 

if thats what python code is like then i need to read more on it becuase that really is about the level i got to when i stopped at basic / turbo pascal 7 lol maybe python is for me cause im a bit "spethal" thanks for all the input so far its been great!

Cpt Placeholder
Posted - 2011.05.20 04:08:00 - [23]
 

Since you're going to have a JVM on Andriod anyways, I'd recommend Scala. It's a hybrid language that runs on the JVM and will allow you to explore and mix many paradigms.

Python is a good choice for quick and dirty work.

Tect Bokas
Posted - 2011.05.20 04:17:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Tect Bokas on 20/05/2011 04:18:13
All this good advice, and noone has mentioned cobol yet?

hehe, well I'm currently in the php crowd my self. It's easy to find hosts for, flexible and portable. you can use the same code for the backend for web aps, and simple desktop aps.

edit honestly who posts mid sentence?

CyPhEr UmOs
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:32:00 - [25]
 

Hey Izaac Newton, give me a shout in game via chat or evemail and we can discuss hosting if you need it. I have an apache server with databases well suited for php stuff and more. I can hook you up with something free of charge just get in touch with me.

~cy

Xzorxur
Posted - 2011.06.08 00:21:00 - [26]
 

You shouldn't think of Python as just a tool for newbies. Although it is easy to get started with Python, Python has a lot of great real world uses. It's integrated into many programs, for instance Autodesk Maya can be scripted using Python. Working in video games we get a lot of use out of this language.
I wanted to post here since I saw you might be interested in trying Python with the Eve API. I have a simple example using Python and PyQt. Even if you choose not to use PyQt for a GUI you'll still see the code for downloading from the API and reading the XML.
Simple Python Example
I'm putting together a slightly more advanced example now, but if this one is useful to anyone, great!


 

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