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Avoak
Posted - 2011.05.11 03:06:00 - [1]
 

Hey, i have been thinking on having a Caldari and a Minmatar Faction ship for some time,

Please excuse me if there is one lol, But I am sure there is not,

But i was wondering on how people would think of one, Because i trained up caldari for PVE and Minmatar for PVP, but was a little disappointed there was no faction ship for them, for PVE or something,



But would like to hear thoughts about it, and quotes on What Minmatar Battle ship it would be.
Thank you. :D


Force Kon
Posted - 2011.05.11 03:49:00 - [2]
 

I dont know of any BS that has use of both races skill but the Typhoon Fleet Issue was quite a nice cross over.

If you settle with 5 launchers, 3 ballistic control systems, you can get a decent shield or armor tank. The thing i love about this ship is the speed and flexibility. There is soooooo many fittings you can use for it and it stays viable (although its a huge risk to take a faction ship into pvp).

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:12:00 - [3]
 

Each faction are prerequisites for 2 pirate faction races, so:

Caldari + Gallente = guristas
Caldari + Amarr = Sansha
Caldari + Minmatar = None

Gallente + caldari = guristas
Gallente + Minmatar = Angel
Gallente + Amarr = None

Minmatar + Gallente = Angel
Minmatar + Amarr = Blood Raider
Minmatar + Caldari = None

Amarr + Minmatar = Blood Raider
Amarr + Caldari = Sansha
Amarr + Gallente = None
As you see each race have one ( and just one ) race wich you could crostrain that DONT ALLOW you to fly pirate ships. This is one of the reasons i always suggest to look also faction frigates when someone ask what race to crosstrain after the initial one.

Hardly we will see 3 new pirate faction races ( make 1 its just unfair versus other races ) and anyway you should have checked this before to train another race.

Rawblin
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:18:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Rawblin on 11/05/2011 07:20:17
It'd just be an extremely ugly, drab-grey, asymmetrical, nasty looking ship that appeared to be taped and welded together with whatever was available.

You cannot mix Caldari and Minmatar because it would literally make eyes bleed.

Without Amarr or even Gallente influence, such visually unenlightened races as the Caldari and Minmatar simply cannot combine their normal drab designs with anything foreign.

For the exact opposite reason, you cannot mix Amarr and Gallente. It would be so beautiful, so awe-inspiring, so fearsome and wonderful and utterly DIVINE, that all other ships would balk at the mere sight of it. The Caldari and Minmatar civilizations would crumble upon realizing their horrible ineptitude with beauty and art, and the new Amarente Civilization would prosper forever in perfect peace and harmony, while contemplating perfect beauty.

Scyth Darkhope
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:30:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Scyth Darkhope on 11/05/2011 07:34:05
Edited by: Scyth Darkhope on 11/05/2011 07:30:59
Originally by: Dark Voynix

...
Caldari + Gallente = guristas
Caldari + Amarr = Sansha
Caldari + Minmatar = None

Gallente + caldari = guristas
Gallente + Minmatar = Angel, Serpentis
Gallente + Amarr = None

Minmatar + Gallente = Angel, Serpentis
Minmatar + Amarr = Blood Raider
Minmatar + Caldari = None

Amarr + Minmatar = Blood Raider
Amarr + Caldari = Sansha
Amarr + Gallente = None



Fixed it for you. Clearly the balance you claimed is non-existent.

Rawblin
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:53:00 - [6]
 

It has nothing to do with balance! This is purely for aesthetics!

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:52:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Dark Voynix on 11/05/2011 08:53:34
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 11/05/2011 08:52:59

Originally by: Scyth Darkhope
Edited by: Scyth Darkhope on 11/05/2011 07:34:05
Edited by: Scyth Darkhope on 11/05/2011 07:30:59
Originally by: Dark Voynix

...
Caldari + Gallente = guristas
Caldari + Amarr = Sansha
Caldari + Minmatar = None

Gallente + caldari = guristas
Gallente + Minmatar = Angel, Serpentis
Gallente + Amarr = None

Minmatar + Gallente = Angel, Serpentis
Minmatar + Amarr = Blood Raider
Minmatar + Caldari = None

Amarr + Minmatar = Blood Raider
Amarr + Caldari = Sansha
Amarr + Gallente = None



Fixed it for you. Clearly the balance you claimed is non-existent.


hum..
you are right .. forgot serpentisEmbarassed.
Strictly talking about races combo the assumption remains: any race dont crosstrain with one race.
But on ballance thing you are perfectly right. Clearly gallente/minnie combo have an advantage ( 2 frigs,cruiser,bs's instead of one ). This way seems that to be fairly ballanced we need another amarr/caldari not focused on lasers like sansha. Since serp focus on hybrid and angels forun con projectiles, we should have another pirate race that focus on missiles ( 8 torp launchers? YARRRR!!).

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:39:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Dark Voynix
Clearly gallente/minnie combo have an advantage ( 2 frigs,cruiser,bs's instead of one ). This way seems that to be fairly ballanced we need another amarr/caldari not focused on lasers like sansha. Since serp focus on hybrid and angels forun con projectiles, we should have another pirate race that focus on missiles ( 8 torp launchers? YARRRR!!).


haaam *toss*

Sorry but Serpentis don't count, those are Gallente hulls base using hybrids and suck has much as any other Gallente ships exception made for the Mega Navy with his extra low allowing more gank but loosing one med and so the web that would make it the best Gallente blaster platform. (try one navy mega and then the vindi you'll see what I mean)

So, Gallente sucks every one and his mother knows that. We're left with Angel stuff but, just in case you don't know it, it means another 3months training for those T2 guns.

Thx for coming.

Saile Litestrider
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:20:00 - [9]
 

I've always wished we could see flyable EoM ships. They're basically Amarran ships that use Caldari weaponry, with a sweet paintjob similar to Khanid ships.

I'd also love to be able to fly rogue drone ships, at least the infected Dominix. I'm sure some hoops could be jumped through to make it fit the lore. That seems like a good Gallente/Amarr choice, considering both races are good with drones. Also, anything that would come even remotely close to being an Armageddon with bonused drones would make me very happy.

sabre906
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:24:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Saile Litestrider
I've always wished we could see flyable EoM ships. They're basically Amarran ships that use Caldari weaponry, with a sweet paintjob similar to Khanid ships.

I'd also love to be able to fly rogue drone ships, at least the infected Dominix. I'm sure some hoops could be jumped through to make it fit the lore. That seems like a good Gallente/Amarr choice, considering both races are good with drones. Also, anything that would come even remotely close to being an Armageddon with bonused drones would make me very happy.


EoM ships? You want Amar ships with rails? Why?Very Happy

CCP said there will be no drone ships some time ago. Due to drone not coexisting with pod pilot or some such stupid rp reasoning.

Darius Brinn
Iberians
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:32:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: sabre906

CCP said there will be no drone ships some time ago. Due to drone not coexisting with pod pilot or some such stupid rp reasoning.


Actually, the real reason is that if they gave us the über cool Infected Dominix, it would take some time before we saw anybody flying ANYTHING ELSE AT ALL.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:34:00 - [12]
 

If you're curious what the design paradigm is, it's lore-based.

Pirate factions develop around the major factional conflicts due to the resulting lawlessness (Caldari v. Gal, Amarr v. Min) and they develop between the major factional allies because the pickings in trade are richer (Gal with Minmatar, Caldari with Amarr).

There being little direct contact either in warfare or trade between Gal and Amarr, and the identical situation between Caldari and Minmatar, means that no pirate factions connect the two.

Additionally, from a training standpoint, such linkages would make getting into a pirate ship too damned easy -- Gal/Amarr would link two races that share heavy armor tank and significant drone bays/capability, and Min/Cal would link two (by default) shield-favoring races with strong missile skills. The point of pirate ships is to actually make you cross-train, not allow you to go from your default race into a pirate ship by maxing one measly x5.

Saile Litestrider
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:03:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: sabre906
EoM ships? You want Amar ships with rails? Why?Very Happy

CCP said there will be no drone ships some time ago. Due to drone not coexisting with pod pilot or some such stupid rp reasoning.


I was more thinking of long range missiles and torps, but if they loaded them with bonuses (or, heaven forbid, fix hybrids as they implement the ships) they could be pretty good. Plus, they look AWESOME. I know I'm far from alone in wanting a Khanid or Khanid-like BS.

Also, lore getting in the way of gameplay for no reason other than for it to get in the way of gameplay is a huge pet peeve of mine. Bad show, CCP.

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:09:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Dark Voynix on 12/05/2011 08:12:02
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 12/05/2011 08:10:47
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Dark Voynix
Clearly gallente/minnie combo have an advantage ( 2 frigs,cruiser,bs's instead of one ). This way seems that to be fairly ballanced we need another amarr/caldari not focused on lasers like sansha. Since serp focus on hybrid and angels forun con projectiles, we should have another pirate race that focus on missiles ( 8 torp launchers? YARRRR!!).


haaam *toss*

Sorry but Serpentis don't count, those are Gallente hulls base using hybrids and suck has much as any other Gallente ships exception made for the Mega Navy with his extra low allowing more gank but loosing one med and so the web that would make it the best Gallente blaster platform. (try one navy mega and then the vindi you'll see what I mean)

So, Gallente sucks every one and his mother knows that. We're left with Angel stuff but, just in case you don't know it, it means another 3months training for those T2 guns.

Thx for coming.


How much ships are ballanced is a complete different topic.
Also seems ballanced that each race have not a pitrate faction versun another race, but whats wrong is that who start as gallente or minnie have to crostrain 1 race to be able to train 2 different pirate ships line. who start amar or caldari have not this option. the fact that serpentis are "gallente like" its exactly whan amar and caldari miss:

gallente/minnie combo have 1 pirate faction that use gallente hulls and weapons. But with the same skills also another pirate faction that use unique hulls and minnie weapons.

on caldari/amarr side we see the unique hull faction (sansha) with amarr weapon system, but we dont have another pirate faction line that use caldari weapons and standard hulls ( caldari in this case since should be the hull in line with whe weapon system).

Unfortunatly there is already a pirate faction that uses caldari hull and also another one that uses amarr hull. So there is no perfect simmetry on how pirate faction was designed and the reason is that does not exyst any pirate faction with minnie standard hulls. to be adjusted to perfect simmetry blood raider should be based on minnie hulls, nightmare based on caldari weapons instead of lasers and then the added amar/caldari pirate faction with amarr hull and lasers ( but shield tanked?).

Unfortunatly if ccp will change baalghorn and nighmares this way reykjavik will be assaulted by raged gamers like Tripoli by libyan rebells. So the best compromise could be another caldari/amarr faction that use raven hull, missiles and armor tanked.

P.s) dont get me wrong i have no amarr skills and no caldari bs skills. im gallente/minnie pilot and im fine , but that does not mean that's fair on who started as caldari or amarr.

Adacia Calla
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:12:00 - [15]
 

Gallente sided with the Minmatar during their oppression.
Caldari are a break away faction from the Gallente.
Amarrians enslaved the Minmatar race.

Follow the circle and figure out who likes who and why we have ships from the combinations.

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:19:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Adacia Calla
Gallente sided with the Minmatar during their oppression.
Caldari are a break away faction from the Gallente.
Amarrians enslaved the Minmatar race.

Follow the circle and figure out who likes who and why we have ships from the combinations.


Several people clearly explained why there is no caldari/minmatar or gallente/amarr combo and on race option seems ballanced. the only imballance is the double gallente/minnie option. Pirate faction should have been 4 ( this means that either serpentis or angel shiuld have not been given to gamers, but we arelate now) or more realistically we need a 6th pirate faction that ballance this thing.

Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:29:00 - [17]
 

Probably because they ran out of pirate factions. To be honest if I had my way:

Caldari + Amarr = Mercenaries (Any mission runner would be famailiar with the caracals that shoot frikkin' lasers)
Caldari + Gallente = Gurista
Caldari + Minmatar = Angel Cartel (Shield based ships with projectile weapons)

Amarr + Minmatar = EoM (Alot of matari ships dual the missiles and Amarr have a few dedicated missile boats)
Amarr + Gallente = Blood Raiders

Minmatar + Gallente = Serpentis

But that's just my half-baked 2 ISK

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:45:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Anddeh McNab


...
Caldari + Minmatar = Angel Cartel (Shield based ships with projectile weapons)
...




So the people that maxed gallente bs to fly a machariel and use it , will no longer be able to fly it anymore? i suspect they will be somehow angry.. dont you think? Rolling Eyes

You cannot just move a ship from a combo to another. Race combos are fine, its the number of pirate faction that does not.

But you said something very interesting: MERCS !!!

they use caldari hull and use lasers so fits perfectly the actual gap.

What about a Merc raven ( caldari/amarr skills ) with 7 bonused missile launchers ( linked to caldari bs skill level ) but armor tanked and armor resistance bonus ( linked to amar bs skill level)?

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:48:00 - [19]
 

I would just be happy enough to have all the simple base line Gallente ships and guns working properly before talking of other imbalances.

Do you really think I have the choice between Serpentis or Angle stuff? -you're wrong and the guy thinking his Vindicator is a EFT warriorpowmobile should stop ganja.

It's not an option when you play Gallente and you want to perform, you have to train matar ships and guns, once you know that stuff you can think about angel stuff but wait, 1B ship without fit. It's 3/4 the price of any dreadnaught, the price of a carrier and has battleships all you need to pown them is to land on top of their head with 2 hurricanes and open pew pew.

There's a lot of imbalance stuff in the game, too much, but I don't think the argument of pirate factions is something that would change in something positive to all those imbalances, it would just add some more.

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.12 11:50:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Swynet
I would just be happy enough to have all the simple base line Gallente ships and guns working properly before talking of other imbalances.

Do you really think I have the choice between Serpentis or Angle stuff? -you're wrong and the guy thinking his Vindicator is a EFT warriorpowmobile should stop ganja.

It's not an option when you play Gallente and you want to perform, you have to train matar ships and guns, once you know that stuff you can think about angel stuff but wait, 1B ship without fit. It's 3/4 the price of any dreadnaught, the price of a carrier and has battleships all you need to pown them is to land on top of their head with 2 hurricanes and open pew pew.

There's a lot of imbalance stuff in the game, too much, but I don't think the argument of pirate factions is something that would change in something positive to all those imbalances, it would just add some more.


I never said that pirate ships are ballanced.
Im maxed gallente and crosstrained minnie and i know what you mean ( figures that in my first post i completelly forgot the serpentis ships LaughingLaughing ), but as we all know thats not strictly related to serpentis ships. The problem its related to blasters, the web nerf and we have any blaster ship that are simply subpar on projectile os pulse related ships.

When ( if ) ccp will finally give a look on blasters then the vindicator will probably be worth again.

Dont forget that faction ships are not only bs's. Ive heard impressive things on the daredevil. Sadly the vigilant its a good company to the vindicator. Neutral

Luca Atavuli
Posted - 2011.05.12 12:13:00 - [21]
 

Why is every1 forgetting that caldari+ Amarr = either khanid or sansha?

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.05.12 12:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Luca Atavuli
Why is every1 forgetting that caldari+ Amarr = either khanid or sansha?


Khanid is not a pirate faction ..
Infact khanid philosophy is used for amarr Tech 2 ships If you will use another amarr hull instead of caldari then the eonm ships could be good candidates ( black armageddon? YARRRR!!YARRRR!! )

Marcus McTavish
Posted - 2011.05.13 16:16:00 - [23]
 

There needs to be a caldari-amarr ship that looks like an abbadon but black and red and it will have 8 torpedos and most likely shield tanked

Khors
El Barco Pirata
Posted - 2011.05.13 16:33:00 - [24]
 

EoM uses railguns, if you want torp baddons, make a 152nd thread about khanid t2 battleships.

Chuc Morris
Posted - 2011.05.13 16:50:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Dark Voynix
Khanid is not a pirate faction ..
Infact khanid philosophy is used for amarr Tech 2 ships If you will use another amarr hull instead of caldari then the eonm ships could be good candidates ( black armageddon? YARRRR!!YARRRR!! )


They look fine but they use rails...silly those piwates Laughing

Gaan Cathal
Caldari
Angry Mustellid
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:19:00 - [26]
 

If we're adding more factions, can I get me one of those sexy Mordu's Legion scorpions? Be worth training Gal BS for. Add the Ammatar or someone for balance (i.e. ammie/minnie equivalent).

Luca Atavuli
Posted - 2011.05.14 13:55:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Dark Voynix
Originally by: Luca Atavuli
Why is every1 forgetting that caldari+ Amarr = either khanid or sansha?


Khanid is not a pirate faction ..
Infact khanid philosophy is used for amarr Tech 2 ships If you will use another amarr hull instead of caldari then the eonm ships could be good candidates ( black armageddon? YARRRR!!YARRRR!! )


that still leaves sansha....

Meowmers Mayaki
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:02:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Saile Litestrider
Originally by: sabre906
EoM ships? You want Amar ships with rails? Why?Very Happy

CCP said there will be no drone ships some time ago. Due to drone not coexisting with pod pilot or some such stupid rp reasoning.


I was more thinking of long range missiles and torps, but if they loaded them with bonuses (or, heaven forbid, fix hybrids as they implement the ships) they could be pretty good. Plus, they look AWESOME. I know I'm far from alone in wanting a Khanid or Khanid-like BS.

Also, lore getting in the way of gameplay for no reason other than for it to get in the way of gameplay is a huge pet peeve of mine. Bad show, CCP.

Pretty sure if T2 versions of the tier 3 BSes ever came out and there was a Khanid-built Abaddon, Levi-Strauss would suddenly become the highest grossing company on the planet due to every EVE player ****-blasting a hole in their pants every time they looked in its general direction.

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:47:00 - [29]
 

WTB A Heavy missile Vagabond!

No really, I want one Twisted Evil


 

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