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Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:17:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Admiral Rufus
haha this is amazing, looking forward to this opening up nullsec more


Its not opening up anything, it just makes 0.0 alliances more dependent on caps/supercaps and multiple accounts.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:18:00 - [242]
 

Can I haz a spool up timer for cynos and a nerf(weakness) to supercarriers while you're at it, since you're currently in the mood for granting wishes? ugh

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:18:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 18:20:30
From my april fools post to my corp:

Quote:
Jump Bridges

Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.

Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or – by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor – at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.

To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second “charge up” timer added before your ship is being sent through.




Edit: The above was taken from an april fools post to my corp's forum, detailing changes that they'd never get.

The rationale for the above design is as follows:
* It allows everyday logistics to be performed just as easily as today, if not easier. Simple ship movement no longer requires logistics people to constantly refuel the bridges
* It slows down mass-fleet movement, with a mechanic that is understandable to players.
* It allows smaller gangs to quickly move around with few if any limitations
* It allows big fleets to move around, but slowly.
* It still allows JB camping, provided that you camp the outgoing side, or dragbubble the POS.


Unfortunately, it would be way too much work for CCP to implement any of those changes, no matter how sensible the might seem.

David Carel
Caldari
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:19:00 - [244]
 

The only thing this'll really cause is that every competent 0.0 corp will have at least one titan in a year used exclusively for logistics.

Caldari Meatbag
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 - [245]
 

Edited by: Caldari Meatbag on 10/05/2011 19:19:56
http://i.imgur.com/V6qIc.png

byebye

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: northwesten
man Me and PL agree on something... I been playing this game for 7 years and I think 0.0 got freaking soft.... I still was able to operate in null with out jump bridges for a while.. Can't handle the risk? then leave null!

Oh and people asking for more regions don't be a tool.. Space not even half full ffs.


Eve Online needs more players like you, northwesten.

John Zorg
Caldari
The Damned Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 - [247]
 

I don't understand you CCP... there are more important things that need be worked on instead of these nerfs... have you lost touch with the game?

Have you people even been in 0.0 or spoken to people in 0.0....

(Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule)... so jump freighters are also not able to move through jump bridges, yet freighters are??!?

Fix things that are unbalanced like ummmm..... POS guns that can actually do something... Jammers that can actually last more than 5 minutes...

Fix things that are unbalanced... you just unbalancing it even more... Maybe the final solution to the "Fight on lag" is to get people out of 0.0 or to make people stop playing your game...

Use your brains... ffs

shot4shot
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 - [248]
 

CCP you fail HARD[:javascript:insertsmilie('Exclamation','WebPost','text');!:]

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Mr LaForge on 10/05/2011 19:20:57
I did some rewrites of the blog:

Quote:
We’re going to delve back into 0.0 development in the near future and I’d like to keep you guys in the loop of what we’re doing. There are going to be a few immediate changes coming out very soon and some changes over the long run.



Short term:

We’ve been looking into players interacting and how that ties into movement and security. Jump bridges have become a bit too awesome in terms of getting around, so we’re going to apply a three changes. Basically,if its easy then it needs to be nerfed. That’s not to say you’re invincible when using jumpbridges, but if you’re in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety and we can't have that. That safety is detrimental to interaction which most people want to avoid. If it’s difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which we’re against because making it harder for people is what we're after. On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out now, since thats coming in the next expansion.

The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isn’t very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it can’t use the jumpbridge because we feel that it would be too easy to avoid camps.



The second and third changes will go in next month, with the main patch. We will be limiting the number of jumpbridges you can have in a system to one. We want to make logistics more difficult for people who don't ahve access to jump freighters and other large logistical tools. We would suggest you start reconfiguring your jumpbridge network as soon as possible to take advantage of this new feature.

Hopefully, this will better balance the rewards of fast travel with the risk of getting caught on the way. So you’ll still be able to use jumpbridges (for now), but every jumpbridge link adds a normal gate jump too. Anyway, that’s short term.


Long term:

We’re currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, because we'll be working on Incarna for a very long time and this will be a useful distraction from that. I think the community as well as CCP feels that 0.0 is in need of a bit of a nerf, so that’s what we’ll do. The starting point for that is identifying 0.0s Strengths and developing guidelines for what 0.0 “should” be according to the laws of communism. Luckily, the CSM will be joining us this month so the players are adequately represented. We’ll have several sessions with them and hopefully they will be able to contribute to our goal of killing 0.0. To give you a quick peek at the type of topics we’re looking at when doing this evaluation (in no particular order):



* Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
Answer: No
* Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Answer: No
* Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Answer: No
* Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
Answer: No
* Are we (CCP) happy with movement/player interaction?
Answer: No. We want it to hurt.

We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today. This particular area of space should offer a lot less opportunities than it does today, and that’s what we’ll put in. Good things will come. Anyway, that’ all for now. We’ll keep you updated after the CSM screams at us.

Purrp Ledone
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:21:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: WilliamMays
Is gate camping CCP's intended endgame pvp; I dont recall the epic marketing video of 20-30 highly skilled veterans waiting for the single industrial to uncloak after jumping. No, thats right, the game is shown as a great empire fighting against another great empire. You seem to be doing everything you can to take the game in the opposite direction.



I think it's been obvious for a long time that CCP doesn't have the slightest clue what direction they want to take the game in.

Lloyd Loar
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:22:00 - [251]
 

*wootles softly*

SSN 609
Amarr
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:22:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: SSN 609 on 10/05/2011 19:24:59
I really don't mine the changes.

What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.

Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.

EDIT: Way to nerf JFs as well... they can go through empire gates... but not JBs....

Ntrails
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:23:00 - [253]
 

Sounds like a blast

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:23:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Caldari Meatbag
byebye
Stuff?

Roland 99
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:25:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: Roland 99 on 10/05/2011 19:26:31
This will lead to even more supers as well as making logistics in nullsec even worse than they were.

^^ SSN Funny how all the RMT isn't mentioned.

Alexander Knott
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:25:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: SSN 609
I really don't mine the changes.

What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.

Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.


Don't worry, it'll be all over and you'll be evacing your stuff long before these changes go live.

Inora Aknaria
No.Mercy
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 - [257]
 

I support this change.

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: SSN 609
Edited by: SSN 609 on 10/05/2011 19:24:59
I really don't mine the changes.

What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.

Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.

EDIT: Way to nerf JFs as well... they can go through empire gates... but not JBs....


so they were just supposed to wait for all battles for sovereignty in eve to be at a standstill? Sorry, theyre not here to develop and launch patches on YOUR schedule...

Taki Gemel
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: SSN 609
I really don't mine the changes.

What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.

Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.




don't worry im sure this war will be over before the changes roll out 8-)

ReK42
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 - [260]
 

I'm sorry but this is a horrible change. It's a perfect example of trying to fix something that isn't broken. As a logistics dude who spends a lot of time fueling bridges, I thank you for the capacity increase but I would much rather this change didn't happen, capacity and all.

Denying access to ships with jumpdrives is really not necessary. Other than being a stupid pilot, the only reason to bring a cap ship through a bridge is if the bridged system is cyno jammed. Removing this ability severely hurts the defender by removing this advantage.

That's not too bad though, I wouldn't actually care too much about this change if that's all it was. The change to allowing only a single bridge is nothing but a bad decision, however. You say that it is needed because JBs make nullsec travel too safe but that simply doesn't matter.

Firstly, JBs are already less safe than gates due to the fact that you can't go through them if you are tackled. This is offset by the presence of protective POS guns but that is something that can easily be circumvented (and often is) with cloaky recons and drag/pull bubbles.

Secondly, JBs are one of the major factors that keep an alliance together. Being in TEST and having just moved into Fountain, this region was a complete pain in the ass to move around in without bridges. None of our major industry really got into swing until they were up and we had a lot of trouble with small 1-4 man gangs camping our pipe systems. Nerfing them should not at all be taken lightly and you need to look at input from people who actually live in nullsec and work with these bridges daily.

Thirdly, this will greatly increase the cost of setting up and maintaining a bridge network. The advanced logistics upgrades are a royal pain in the ass to install. For a large alliance, the cost is negligible but, due to the fact that they cannot fit in a jump freighter, the logistics of getting them and any other level 5 upgrade out of the high sec seed stations and safely into nullsec is a pure nightmare and pretty much requires multiple titan bridges. By effectively doubling the number of these upgrades required you are making it much more difficult for alliances to set up these networks. This additional difficulty may end up being prohibitive for smaller alliances.

Lastly, this change will not have the effect you want. You said this is being done to promote player interaction but it will do the exact opposite. Without the ability to create cross-region chained bridge networks such as the eye of terror, which would essential double in length in terms of jumps needed to cross it, moving fleets of any size, from terrible lag-inducing blobs to small 10-20 man recon gangs, into combat areas will become many times more difficult. It also severely affects an alliance's ability to defend its space for the same reasons: more jumps means a longer response time for home defense fleets which means more chance for the reds to get away and less chance of player interaction (ie, a fight).

If you want to fix nullsec, start with fixing bugs like the overview bug that will randomly show blues as neutrals. That bug has gotten dozens of people killed.

This, combined with your recent anomalies nerf, will result in people abandoning nullsec en masse. Since the only reason myself and many, many other pilots still play this game is the people found in our alliances, people leaving nullsec means people leaving this game.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 - [261]
 

So the DRF and allies are the new BOB eh? Looks like CCP supports RMT, Botting, and DDOSing.

StoneRhino
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 - [262]
 

Oh Hi, I have an absolutely brilliant solution. Ok, ready?

Roll the game back to Pre-Red Moon Rising.

No dreads, No outposts, No bridges, No capitals, No frieghters, and all you had to do was hide in a station that nobody could ever take from you.

Lets just roll it back.

Abramul
Gallente
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Abramul on 10/05/2011 19:29:53
I would suggest that you allow one JB and one anchorable gate (no fuel, no POS, anyone can use it) per system; would allow better connectivity, at the cost of bringing hostiles closer.

(Personally, this change won't really affect me; I just use a bomber for getting to and from rally systems, so a few gates won't be an issue)

Bryan Havoc
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:28:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: StoneRhino
Oh Hi, I have an absolutely brilliant solution. Ok, ready?

Roll the game back to Pre-Red Moon Rising.

No dreads, No outposts, No bridges, No capitals, No frieghters, and all you had to do was hide in a station that nobody could ever take from you.

Lets just roll it back.


+1 Like

Archiebald Hornby
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:28:00 - [265]
 

Even as a sov holder and someone that hates being run around by Enemy fleets using JB's, this is stupid.

I agree with the jump drive change though.



Caldari Meatbag
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag
byebye
Stuff?


will be deleted... over 1 bil liquid isk, multiple T2 ships, a T3 will all be destroyed...

both 30 and 40 mil skill point characters will be terminated too.


Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: xttz

Originally by: CCP Fallout
We’re currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because it’s planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while

You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.



scumbag CCP: Break 0.0, plan to fix it in 9 months.

Kaldirov
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 - [268]
 

I think this a very nice change. Never understood why the safe way to travel existed in 0.0. No one likes to travel but why should it be safer in null than in the rest Eve?

Understand why NC is raging because they are already in a downward spiral hehe

clone667
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 - [269]
 

stop "trying" to help players in 0.0 your ****ing more off than you are helping, you should have known this by now, FFS.

Inanna NiKunni
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 - [270]
 

This is actually good stuff +1

Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 18:20:30
From my april fools post to my corp:

Quote:
Jump Bridges

Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.

Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or – by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor – at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.

To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second “charge up” timer added before your ship is being sent through.




Edit: The above was taken from an april fools post to my corp's forum, detailing changes that they'd never get.

The rationale for the above design is as follows:
* It allows everyday logistics to be performed just as easily as today, if not easier. Simple ship movement no longer requires logistics people to constantly refuel the bridges
* It slows down mass-fleet movement, with a mechanic that is understandable to players.
* It allows smaller gangs to quickly move around with few if any limitations
* It allows big fleets to move around, but slowly.
* It still allows JB camping, provided that you camp the outgoing side, or dragbubble the POS.


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