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Kalissa
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:34:00 - [1621]
 

All these tears do indeed make my day, all the crying about having to take risks and how smaller alliances will be hit when actually since smaller alliances own less space and have less JB's they will be hit less. Life out in 0.0 is supposed to be risky, for too long people have had it too easy.

Yes there will be gatecamps, so bloody well deal with it thats what PVP is about and in the end PVP is what makes EVE tick without that everything falls apart for everyone.

I personally will be hit by this moving around won't be as convenient or risk free as it is now but as I've said in a previous post this idea is well overdue, good on you CCP!

(And looking back at previous posts it does seem like most of the bleating is coming from the NC doesn't it? That gives me a nice warm feeling inside Wink)

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:45:00 - [1622]
 

Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really. Shocked

Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.

The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.

Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.

Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:47:00 - [1623]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Bagehi
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really. Shocked

Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.

The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.

Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.


Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:47:00 - [1624]
 

Take strategy games: What makes territorial conflicts interesting is when there are several borders to be defended. But if you can move your troops in no time to any border, then there is effectively only one border that you have to defend, and then a conflict gets static and/or uninteresting. Thats what we mostly have in Eve right now, and it seems CCP is going to change that to the better.

Iece Quaan
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:49:00 - [1625]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.

This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.


seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium


CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?


A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.


Are you ****ing serious? TIL a static structure in space, that I have to fuel using vulnerable and powerless ships, and is itself vulnerable to destruction, shouldn't give me any kind of ingame advantage- even when paired with modules that you need to own SOV to deploy.

Please, fire yourself.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:49:00 - [1626]
 

Originally by: Cellistara
Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
Where did those trillions from moon goo go? Why were all the SCs / Titans sold rather than used in house. Where did all that isk go Shocked

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:50:00 - [1627]
 

My initial thoughts I've added to my latest blog post (here).

tl;dr version is its not a simple black and white issue to what extent jump bridges aid, or hinder conflict within null sec.

C.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:54:00 - [1628]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past

The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.



And PL is basically full of trust fund babies who can't understand why people are upset the public library is closing to make room for a polo field because daddy has a whole room full of books and you can totally play polo. Oh you don't have a horse? I guess you can play on foot but I'm still going to use the horse daddy bought me.

See, I can do personal insults too.

Infinion
Caldari
Awesome Corp
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:58:00 - [1629]
 

Edited by: Infinion on 11/05/2011 18:00:06
Increasing the chances of pvp by nerfing jump bridges is fine, but maybe that's not exactly what is needed to make pvp fresh again and more frequent. Maybe it's time to look at things that will arouse more interest in roaming for a fight.

-Is there a problem with the stargate model we have in eve? Is it fine to have stargates as the most obvious and most frequent place for a pvp encounter or should it occur in more places?

-What about looking into tactics? The concept for fleet formations has been around for ages and still has been untouched. It could be a great improvement to a better pvp experience; maybe people will roam as an excuse to look at a cool formation?

-What about the idea ccp had to target a ship's subsystems like engines, weapon systems, shields, and then the hull itself? Maybe the whole shield/armor/hull hp of every ship is too simplified and starting to age in our combat system? Why should a ship that is under fire only last for 15 seconds before exploding? Does it need to be that short for it to be scalable in large scale combat? Why does it need to be scalable? Would lengthening the time it takes to kill a ship if you don't target subsystems make losing your ship more fulfilling? What is time worth and why should most of that time be spent making money versus fighting? Would taking longer to die constitute more regret or satisfaction when you think about what it took to earn that ship?

If it's currently so easy to avoid a pvp encounter doesn't it raise the question of why it's being avoided and whether fights still offer a quality pvp experience or not? Has pvp become sort of predictable and bland tasting?

why is it that over the past 8 years we have been contempt with just adding more ships to the game instead of evolving the core aspects of pvp?



Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.11 17:59:00 - [1630]
 

Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 18:02:50
To be fair. PL is a very narrow one sided alliance.

Very few ppl here seem to have an oppinion or care whats good for the game.. only whats good for their own current playstyle.
I guesss thats natural.

Sad to see delusional devs like soundwave trying to ruin their own game.
and im not just talking about his 7day(omfg) change.

The only thing i can think of is:
1 account = 1 vote.. cancel alt+state reason, only vote you have.Cool

Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:01:00 - [1631]
 

Now CCP did an experiment and we got just a small glimpse of what would happen if they ever touch L4's Laughing

On a serious note, while the change sounds not bad, the not complex approach to 0.0 and game in overall problems seems horrible. "We will sit over 0.0 somewhere around the winter, soon tm blah blah" - nah, not going to work.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:03:00 - [1632]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Cellistara
Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
Where did those trillions from moon goo go? Why were all the SCs / Titans sold rather than used in house. Where did all that isk go Shocked


Because sov costs isk. Building Ihub and upgrading them costs ****tons of isk, managing towers costs isk, jumpbridges cost lots of isk, CSAAs cost more isk, subcap reimbursments cost isk, cap reimbursments cost isk, fun costs isk, and with what little is left over from that goes to maybe helping people get a supercap, or it goes to getting a titan for bridging. Everything costs isk, ya know, unless you live in npc 0.0 and cheaters throw billions of isk and supers at you by the truck load.

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:05:00 - [1633]
 

Originally by: Cedori

Conventional Fleets can down cynojammers (and cynogens) pretty easily already, but this would give an advantage to "owning space" on the defensive side.




ahhhhhhhhhh hahahahahaha lmao, right Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:10:00 - [1634]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 18:19:33
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Originally by: Bagehi
The power blocs are not responsible. They are the optimal solution for the current game mechanics. CCP needs to fix the game mechanics, this doesn't do it.


You think the player base has no responsibility in changes CCP makes to the game?

The players asked for a more all round space simulation(cant remember back that far?).......CCP gives you Incarna walking in stations

Player base asked for a change to the pos sov system.......CCP gives you the horrendous system we have today

Player base asked for customisable ships.......CCP gave you T3 cruisers

Don't think that the bears whining about travel times gave us JB's, warp to 0 etc?

The power blocs shaped this game so that small roams, smaller scale pvp became the preverbial ugly bird in a bar, only attractive when looked through beer goggles or to those with a fetish for it.

My point in this horrible post? The players have shaped this game just as much as CCP have. Take a look at your own playstyle before crying to CCP asking for changes.

If I recall correctly, Incarna was promised years ago and put on the back burner. That and flying on planets. CCP pulled Incarna off the shelf when they picked up the WoD IP as a way to test their code before going live with the WoD MMO. Perhaps you remember that differently.

Players have been asking for POS mechanics to be changed. Instead of changing them, CCP built a new sov mechanic that was not as centered on them. Honestly, not that bad compared to how it used to be, but still not what the players had asked for.

Players asked for customizable ships, CCP delivered. No problems there.

JB's were given because people started asking "why hold sov?" Then CCP made a bigger isk sink out of it and people asked "why hold sov?" and we got the anoms. Now CCP is taking the carrots back and hoping people forgot the questions that led to those being introduced. Why hold sov? Why pay for sov? You really only need it for a few systems where you want the use of stations and a the deep neg null sec systems that you get good anoms from. The rest of the systems are just filler that no one wants.

The mechanics of the game and the desire of CCP to populate null sec is why the population density in null has skyrocketed and why small scale null warfare has diminished.

Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Bagehi
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really. Shocked

Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.

The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.

Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.

Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.

Your days in PL have made you soft. Perhaps you forgot what it was like for an alliance to not be comprised of people who all own at least one cap or super.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:13:00 - [1635]
 

What is it with CCP and the middle of the year? Last year it was '18 months, etc.' and now this, with a very split player base. As an outsider, the fact that this basically is split right down the line on 'people who use JB's are against', 'people who don't are for' (mostly, I know there are a few exceptions but the vast majority, you can predict their support or antagonism by which bloc they belong to) is interesting to watch. I would hope that some compromise solution could be had, and that CCP is willing to listen to alternatives. It's interesting that those who are against this have themselves proposed a nerf to their major source of income. Also, the leader of the CSM will be solidly in the 'against' block, so we'll see how that turns out.

Ah, Eve development as spectator sport. So glad I still hang around.

erikjan86
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:13:00 - [1636]
 

dont mess with the jb's its alliance space and if youre invading it and want space, take a fight for it and don't get in tears and complain by ccp about the jb network. and if this is going to hapen i think alot of people will stop playing eve online its makes **** of 0.0



Enthral
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:18:00 - [1637]
 

Originally by: Tamahra
Take strategy games: What makes territorial conflicts interesting is when there are several borders to be defended. But if you can move your troops in no time to any border, then there is effectively only one border that you have to defend, and then a conflict gets static and/or uninteresting. Thats what we mostly have in Eve right now, and it seems CCP is going to change that to the better.


And you would be right, if you could "assign" people to sit on a border for days or weeks on end, 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict. With real people, it simply doesn't work that way. Changing the JB mechanics actually waters down whatever little strategy exists in alliance warfare, and it sure makes daily logistics nasty. It will also have the opposite effect CCP thinks it will, as people will be unwilling to travel for 20 minutes just to address small roaming gangs passing through.

speedek
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:21:00 - [1638]
 

CCP honestly: ♥

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:29:00 - [1639]
 

Edited by: Tamahra on 11/05/2011 18:30:37
Originally by: Enthral
Originally by: Tamahra
Take strategy games: What makes territorial conflicts interesting is when there are several borders to be defended. But if you can move your troops in no time to any border, then there is effectively only one border that you have to defend, and then a conflict gets static and/or uninteresting. Thats what we mostly have in Eve right now, and it seems CCP is going to change that to the better.


And you would be right, if you could "assign" people to sit on a border for days or weeks on end, 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict. With real people, it simply doesn't work that way. Changing the JB mechanics actually waters down whatever little strategy exists in alliance warfare, and it sure makes daily logistics nasty. It will also have the opposite effect CCP thinks it will, as people will be unwilling to travel for 20 minutes just to address small roaming gangs passing through.


Im going through your arguments, one by one:



And you would be right, if you could "assign" people to sit on a border for days or weeks on end, 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict. With real people, it simply doesn't work that way.

People wonīt sit on a border for days or weeks 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict, thatīs right. And thatīs exactly what opens up opportunities for attacking forces. The bigger the territory of the defender, the more opportunities for attackers arise. Do you see, where im going with this? I believe the changes will make Eve alot more dynamic.



Changing the JB mechanics actually waters down whatever little strategy exists in alliance warfare

Why?



And it sure makes daily logistics nasty.

It will make logistics more difficult, the larger the territory is that you own. Which again opens up opportunities for smaller entities to make the live of a huge alliance blob harder, in my opinion at least.



It will also have the opposite effect CCP thinks it will, as people will be unwilling to travel for 20 minutes just to address small roaming gangs passing through.

Those who are willing, will prevail over those who are not willing. Itīs that simple, really.


Infinion
Caldari
Awesome Corp
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:30:00 - [1640]
 

Edited by: Infinion on 11/05/2011 18:32:26
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Cellistara
Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
Where did those trillions from moon goo go? Why were all the SCs / Titans sold rather than used in house. Where did all that isk go Shocked


Because sov costs isk. Building Ihub and upgrading them costs ****tons of isk, managing towers costs isk, jumpbridges cost lots of isk, CSAAs cost more isk, subcap reimbursments cost isk, cap reimbursments cost isk, fun costs isk, and with what little is left over from that goes to maybe helping people get a supercap, or it goes to getting a titan for bridging. Everything costs isk, ya know, unless you live in npc 0.0 and cheaters throw billions of isk and supers at you by the truck load.


so my question is why do isk faucets and isk sinks have to balance out and why is the cost of fun so short lived? Why do we spend so much time grinding for hours earning isk instead of just constantly losing ships? Exactly how important is value to us and is it worth our time? If it's easy to make money, money wont be so important and less time will be spent trying to make it. Why do you think people don't patrol their space like in all the cool expansions? Because it's not worth their time, they would rather be making isk so they can afford to fly capable ships and afford to take part in pvp more often. Who would care if wealth is amassed or not? If you constantly commit yourself to making isk you will inevitably participate less in pvp. Why do we need a real-world economic model?

There's obviously a balance between both making money and pvp but the way i see it right now, it is out of balance and leaning towards the average pilot spending most of their time grinding for isk.

edit: and that's a couple of reasons so many people avoid pvp and use jump bridges because either they feel its not worth their time or they can't afford it

Mara Tessidar
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:36:00 - [1641]
 

My group's response to this has been "Let's go take over the nearby region of NPC nullsec, because now it's better than where we currently live!"

Brilliant thinking, CCP. I love how you anticipated all the consequences of this rapidly-implemented and well thought out "update."

ShadowFire15
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:40:00 - [1642]
 

I'm not saying that we can't adapt to these changes cause I'm sure we will, but the timing and complete urgency of this change just doesn't make sense. I for one never had a problem with using stargates.

Also, I don't know why people are hating on the NC specifically so much. EVE is suppose to be a sandbox, but people seem mad of how the NC decided to play this game. Yeah we have our jb network and it helps to move around large distances, but we also pay billions a month to have them up. Also, if we hold sov, pay for this sov, and provide protection ourselves, shouldn't we be allowed to have the perks of nullsec. People seem upset that some people actually enjoy pve'ing for their isk and that's them. Doesn't mean you have to insult them for it.

CCP was all for boosting living in nullsec with the upgrades to sov and now they seem to be slowly taking it all back. When you get use to having something and someone just up and takes it away of course people are going to rage.

Also, to everyone saying to go back to the way things were, I have nothing to say against that, but why is everyone saying that people managed just fine without all the perks and stuff. In RL, people are constantly trying to find better ways of doing things. A way you can do things faster and are more convient. What you are saying is like saying that sure back in the day we managed to do just fine hunting with bows and arrows or whatever to get our food and relying on a campfire of sorts to stay warm. And now we got heat and air condition inside and a store to get our food and you complain about it and say it was better of how it use to be?

My problem with this is not just because of the JB changes but it seems that CCP is desperate to stop the way some alliances have lived in nullsec for quite a long time. Anom nerf for the average player to support their pvp and other stuff well. Now a nerf to JB's. With this pattern, it seems like it's only going downhill. Anyway, thought I'd go ahead and put my post in.

ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:41:00 - [1643]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really. Shocked

Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.

The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.

Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.

Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.


I'll bet your internet spaceships make you feel important, don't they?

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:41:00 - [1644]
 

Originally by: Infinion
There's obviously a balance between both making money and pvp but the way i see it right now, it is out of balance and leaning towards the average pilot spending most of their time grinding for isk.
I take the opposite approach: The pilot who spends a lot of time grinding isk is flying ships far more expensive than they should be flying.

Don't make much money, don't want to grind isk? Don't complain. Fly frigates and cruisers with T1 gear. You can still be effective in a fight and you don't have to worry about blowing up because it's cheap. There's a ton of frigates that can be bought and fit for under a million isk and still contribute meaningfully to a fight.

That's what I do and I'm quite happy. I still have some shiny expensive ships with nice mods, but they're for special occasions or for solo work where skill and shiny, more than numbers, actually matters.

Bloodhands
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:43:00 - [1645]
 

Edited by: Bloodhands on 11/05/2011 18:43:53
My original question still stands. If this change is not a politically or monetarily driven change, what would be the harm in pushing back the release date of Phase One until say 14 June, 2011 (34 days) and Phase Two until four weeks after?

A time line change would give the political players who are currently involved in the largest war the Eve Online universe has ever seen a chance to adjust their tactics thus not end up appearing as if CCP is attempting to interfere with the political landscape of negative security space, which is what this looks like to the majority of the readers and posters in this thread.



I am an odd person, speaking as a long time null sec logistics director who has been playing and leading his respective corporations/alliances logistics since before titans, before warp to 0 and before the goons were known as goons. I don't see this change as a bad thing. Will it make logistics more difficult? possibly. Can we adapt? defiantly.



You keep on talking about how PvP in sovereign space is only brought about lately on a sovereignty warfare basis and you think this is bad. Why not boost low security space's rewards for small gang movements. Small gang warfare is what low security space is there for and nation building / conquering is what sovereign space is for.

Should there also be small scale fights in sovereign space? Sure! But not by mandating the game be played your way and no other. Give us the ability to shoot our friends. Give us regional or constellation settings. We all want to be friends to protect our space, but we REALLY hate each other and want to kill each other with out effecting that ability to protect our space.

Take fade and pure blind for example. 12 alliances control small bits of space here so we are all forced to work together in our space. Now, what about when we see each other in Fountain or Venal? There is nothing more we would love then to kill each other, but due to current game mechanics we can not. Give us that ability and i can guarantee you that small scale PvP in sovereign space will increase greatly.

Liosa Rearl
Caldari
The Lost Legion
Bang Bang You're Dead
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:44:00 - [1646]
 

...

What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.

Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.

Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.

Liosa Rearl


P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:50:00 - [1647]
 

Originally by: Liosa Rearl
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive.


It turns out they were much better at laughing at other people failing to 'adapt or die' than actually doing so themselves, so they died.

Ami Hantaka
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:53:00 - [1648]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really. Shocked

Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.

The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.

Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.

Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.


+1. I can confirm from personal experience that mr. Past is a trustworthy and valueable member of the community, and much truth is contained in his words.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:54:00 - [1649]
 

Originally by: Infinion

so my question is why do isk faucets and isk sinks have to balance out and why is the cost of fun so short lived? Why do we spend so much time grinding for hours earning isk instead of just constantly losing ships? Exactly how important is value to us and is it worth our time? If it's easy to make money, money wont be so important and less time will be spent trying to make it. Why do you think people don't patrol their space like in all the cool expansions? Because it's not worth their time, they would rather be making isk so they can afford to fly capable ships and afford to take part in pvp more often. Who would care if wealth is amassed or not? If you constantly commit yourself to making isk you will inevitably participate less in pvp. Why do we need a real-world economic model?

There's obviously a balance between both making money and pvp but the way i see it right now, it is out of balance and leaning towards the average pilot spending most of their time grinding for isk.

edit: and that's a couple of reasons so many people avoid pvp and use jump bridges because either they feel its not worth their time or they can't afford it



That was in response to why it's only PL and DRF who can field 500 man fleets of nothing but supers and titans with a few abadons mixed in. Because most other alliances aren't comprised almost entirely of botters, and moon goo goes to pay needed costs rather than throwing supers everywhere.


Originally by: Andrea Griffin
I take the opposite approach: The pilot who spends a lot of time grinding isk is flying ships far more expensive than they should be flying.

Don't make much money, don't want to grind isk? Don't complain. Fly frigates and cruisers with T1 gear. You can still be effective in a fight and you don't have to worry about blowing up because it's cheap. There's a ton of frigates that can be bought and fit for under a million isk and still contribute meaningfully to a fight.

That's what I do and I'm quite happy. I still have some shiny expensive ships with nice mods, but they're for special occasions or for solo work where skill and shiny, more than numbers, actually matters.


Not really, when you're limited mostly to subcaps and facing large numbers with superior ships your only chance to win is to throw as many ships at them as you can and to reship quickly. If you put a 500 man BS fleet against a 3-500 man super fleet you will bleed ships, so you have to keep throwing battleships at them. That costs a lot of isk. And you cant exactly say to get into supers themselves if they simply don't have the sp to fly them effectively.

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:58:00 - [1650]
 

Originally by: Liosa Rearl
...

What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive.


We're still here lol. And will be.

But even though we, as individuals, know we could survive any changes, that doesn't mean we have to like them, and it doesn't mean that any change is good just because it's a change.

I'd like to see more people in null sec not less. And they don't all have to be pew-pew pvp'rs, having "non-combat" characters out here is nice as well, not only for more targets, but also for better markets (for example, more explorers potentially means more goodies for people like me who like to collect).

CCP is seeming to go backwards, they don't seem to want to make changes that push hi-sec dwellers outwards (cough lvl 4 missions and npc corps you can stay in forever cough), but are making changes that make null sec more tedious, which doesn't do anything but shift more people back to empire.

Thats bassakwards if you ask me.


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