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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:36:00 - [1561]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:16:19
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:02:40
Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.


Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.

If you pay the same for mining low ends/hr as high ends/hr, you will increase the price of ships dramatically. That is the issue. The higher the cost of ships, the higher the replacement cost, the less PVP.


So pay lower for the high ends. If guys don't wanna play ball, then kick 'em, they weren't worth your time anyway. If an alliance won't work together to try and further the alliance, the alliance falls apart, simple as.

S'qarpium D'igil
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:38:00 - [1562]
 

Dear CCP, please stop changing 0.0 keep up the good work!!! I want to see more tears from people who really don't belong in 0.0 to begin with. If you're not intelligent enough to live in 0.0 after these changes, then please stay in Empire and make isk like the rest of the carebears.

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:39:00 - [1563]
 

Oh my god, people might actually have to - gasp - take a small risk by using a jump gate instead of going from deathstar to deathstar. My god, what is Eve coming to? You mean people can no longer teleport from one end of a region to another in complete safety? Potential PvP? In MY Eve?! I DEMAND JUSTICE!!! Shocked


Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T.
V.L.A.S.T
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:39:00 - [1564]
 

Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Fix Lag
The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.


They run combat bots and kill drones, then their salvager bots scoop the drone poo. Then they RMT the hell outta everything.


Ironyoverload... check your alliance mates, then check the drama on your own forums.




So? Were talking about DRF, the alliance with more supers than any other in the game, hell I'd bet everyone has a titan AND a super. Their members are paid cash to run their bots, they RMT hundreds of billions of isk. They threw 600 billion at PL and supply them with supers like its nothing. An alliance whos idea of sov warfare involves illegally DDOSing the opposing factions forums, ts servers and jabbers. Yes this isn't nearly as bad as a guy trying to get himself a new BS for some pew pew.


So? I don't know, may be make sure your alliance is pristine before accusing other alliances of botting and RMT, otherwise you look exactly the same.
Double standarts much?

ps: keep eating that propaganda mate :)

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:40:00 - [1565]
 

Originally by: Messy Beaver
Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.

Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?

New entities don't come to empty space because they can make more isk/hr in high sec. Systems are held simply to get between the systems that are worth holding. This is the current optimal balance based on in-game mechanics. The recent changes will likely lead to alliances leaving some systems without sov, simply because there is no need for those systems based on the cost.

P.S. I'm not your son, so you can stop using derogatory names as they only detract from reasonable debate.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:43:00 - [1566]
 

Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Originally by: raging star
Edited by: raging star on 11/05/2011 15:25:26
OK i don't know why i am doing this ... but ... we ... are a bunch of idiotsEvil or Very Mad].


Fixed

Again the only whines come from Space holders, mostly on NC side. You think its balanced and ok, but not everyone might think just like you.

Nerfing sov is kinda silly as people just will hold less sov then, leading to a reduction in that isk sink. I have no problem living in null without sov. I've done it before.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:47:00 - [1567]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:47:02
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Originally by: Yeep

Originally by: KFenn

Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.


So what you're saying is the entire economy should revolve around people being paid to do awful boring things in dangerous places. You know this is a game right?

Originally by: Messy Beaver

Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.

Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?


Vast areas of 0.0 are empty because they're worthless. Explain again why these new small alliances want to spend billions of isk setting up in space with no advantage over empire?


If the space is useless then why does your alliance hold it? Low income content in other areas of the game is useless to the majority of the player base, but to some its a stepping stone to greater things. That option for the low level newly created alliances isnt there, unless they attach themselves to one of the power blocs.

A lot of space being held is because of the jump bridge networks built based on the previous mechanic of upgradable space. Now that fewer systems are worth holding, now that jump bridge networks are not going to work in the same way, you will see alliances dropping space that does not benefit them.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:48:00 - [1568]
 

Originally by: Megy Feel


So? I don't know, may be make sure your alliance is pristine before accusing other alliances of botting and RMT, otherwise you look exactly the same.
Double standarts much?

ps: keep eating that propaganda mate :)

No alliance is pristine, not a single one. But most botters are doing so to make isk to buy ships and pay for an account or 2, not to make thousands of dollars selling isk, that takes massive numbers, such as DRF. And again, CCP needs to deal with botters, all of em, ban the entirety of em and screw the consequences.

And its the scale, do you really want 2/3 of 0.0 space controlled by an alliance whos only interest is RMT? DRF doesn't play eve to have fun and get good fights, DRF is a business, their interest is their profit margin and little else.

Murq
Deep Space Expedition.
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:48:00 - [1569]
 

Put jump bridges next to gates. Problem solved.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:51:00 - [1570]
 

Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi
Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.


Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.

If you pay the same for mining low ends/hr as high ends/hr, you will increase the price of ships dramatically. That is the issue. The higher the cost of ships, the higher the replacement cost, the less PVP.


So pay lower for the high ends. If guys don't wanna play ball, then kick 'em, they weren't worth your time anyway. If an alliance won't work together to try and further the alliance, the alliance falls apart, simple as.

Ah, micro manage the economy. Yeah, that has historically worked GREAT! Also, this is a video game, it isn't supposed to be a job. People mine to support the parts of the game they enjoy.

Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:52:00 - [1571]
 

Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, High Reward" aspect of null sec.

*applauds CCP*


Svennig
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:52:00 - [1572]
 

Originally by: Megy Feel


So? I don't know, may be make sure your alliance is pristine before accusing other alliances of botting and RMT, otherwise you look exactly the same.
Double standarts much?

ps: keep eating that propaganda mate :)


God what an obvious tu quoque.

Svennig
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:54:00 - [1573]
 

Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, High Reward" aspect of null sec.

*applauds CCP*




Wait, there's high rewards out here? For the general membership that is, since the anom nerf?

Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:57:00 - [1574]
 

Originally by: Svennig
Wait, there's high rewards out here? For the general membership that is, since the anom nerf?


Try living in Syndicate or some other region with truely horrible rats/anoms in a sea of non-blues without any jump bridges to secure safer travel and then get back to me about 'lack of high reward.'

Sebastian Hoch
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:58:00 - [1575]
 

Originally by: rcs619
The amount of b'awwing and doom-saying in this thread is amazing.

Also, all you NC people that are complaining, imagine how many billions of isk will be freed up if the NC sheds some of its extraneous jump bridges. That's more isk for ship reimbursment, POS fuel, ammo, and so on. Assuming it doesn't wind up just padding someone's pocket.




The cost of a JB network will go up, because you will need more upgraded systems to cover the same space.

Messy Beaver
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:58:00 - [1576]
 

Originally by: Messy Beaver
Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.

Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?

New entities don't come to empty space because they can make more isk/hr in high sec. Systems are held simply to get between the systems that are worth holding. This is the current optimal balance based on in-game mechanics. The recent changes will likely lead to alliances leaving some systems without sov, simply because there is no need for those systems based on the cost.

P.S. I'm not your son, so you can stop using derogatory names as they only detract from reasonable debate.


There are corporations/alliances out there that want to make that first step into 0.0 to gain knowledge, experience. Without the power blocs it is impossible to do atm.

Btw several of the corps at the centre of your alliance started that way, living out of pos's making less isk than they could in empire but in turn having space they could call their own.

It's a shame that they would then turn into the corps that came up with "lets hire mercs against PL to help us keep our space" as their best strategy(seriously that still keeps me chuckling)

Degara Farat
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:59:00 - [1577]
 

Killing Nullsec 1 "improvement" at the time.

Target: Northern Coalition most effective Jumpbridge Network
Compliments of Team Pink Commies no doubt


Word of advice: DONT FIX WHAT ISNT BROKEN.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:01:00 - [1578]
 

Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis

Try living in Syndicate or some other region with truely horrible rats/anoms in a sea of non-blues without any jump bridges to secure safer travel and then get back to me about 'lack of high reward.'


The Syndicate thats full of level 4 mission agents? Or some other Syndicate?

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:02:00 - [1579]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/05/2011 16:02:55
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.


What exactly are you wasting time on?

Leelo dallasmultipas
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:04:00 - [1580]
 

Edited by: Leelo dallasmultipas on 11/05/2011 16:13:44
Edited by: Leelo dallasmultipas on 11/05/2011 16:09:59
Another lovely change that gives AFK cloakers some more stuff to do while they visit in 0.0. The people who live there, and try to make isk there will be most affected. They will be the ones ganked on their way to an escalation or run down while moving minerals. You ask: is this not better? Shouldn't 0.0 be more unsafe than Empire? Well yes, it should, but only for those who do not live there. 0.0 should be relatively safe to the residents because of all the isk they have paid to make it so, the wars they fought to control the region in which they currently live. Is CCP reading this? Probably not, so I'll not drag on, this is sad. Yet again CCP reinforces the belief that they live in High-sec with the carebears, and come out to 0.0 as a weekend trip.
Have you considered how the new jump bridges will be fueled? Need we all be flying around orcas now? Now instead of 1-4 trips with a hauler full of LO, we'll be doing three times that... you want to make logistical teams suicide? Make them spend DAYS taking down and putting up POSes in other systems... not only are safe POSes in what used to be isk making systems going offline due to the lack of isk able to be made in them but now more will be going offline because they are a pain in the a** to move. "We're changing the Jump Bridges better work out a new route for your logistics" you claim to be meeting the CSM later about this change at yet you tell us all to move our jump bridge networks now? I think you've already made up your minds.. the CSM will likely not have any affect on your decision... lovely... Oh well... didn't want that subscription anyway.

Also, I love reading those posts by fa**ots who "predict" tears by NC/Goon/etc, oddly enough these are the people who are being affected by these S**tty changes... so although your powers of prediction are astounding, it's a little old...

Now 0.0 will be a desert waste, uninhabited majorly due to the lack of isk making opportunities, and we'll be forced to go gate to gate in this wasteland, or use our personal titans to sling ourselves across the expanse of empty systems... Interesting what CCP wants 0.0 to look like...

Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:04:00 - [1581]
 

Originally by: Yeep
The Syndicate thats full of level 4 mission agents? Or some other Syndicate?


You are, without a doubt, the first person to ever claim a bounty of PvE opportunities in Syndicate.

Congratulations to you, Captian.

Sebastian Hoch
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:04:00 - [1582]
 

Originally by: AntISGhey
CCP should really post their vision of what they think nul-sec should be like and save themselves threads like this and the playerbase the time their wasting on Supercaps online.

I personally dont believe they have any vision for any area in EvE and never will, else after 8 years wouldn't we be there by now?


Yes, please. What is CCP's vision for nullsec? I assume there is one?


bp920091
Killer Koalas
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:05:00 - [1583]
 

Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, LOW/No Reward" aspect of null sec.

*applauds CCP*




Fixed that for you.

Please also note who supports this change and who opposes it. Those who oppose it are 0.0 holders who LIVE in 0.0, and those who support it are either highsec players, lowsec players (im looking RIGHT at you Liang), Botters (DRF, who dont care about the state of 0.0, as long as they can make REAL LIFE cash by playing eve illegally), or Pandemic Legion (who has countless titans and does not really hold ANY space)

End result. People who support this change will not be affected by it, people who oppose are affected by it, and CCP wants everything to be highsec.

How about this, for a good risk/reward relationship, make 0.0 far more PROFITABLE, as it is far more dangerous (ever heard of doomsdays, bombs, interdiction spheres, and other 0.0 goodies)

The idea is not terrible, but the way to "fix" it is.

CCP, go play eve out in 0.0 and see what it is like nowadays.

Svennig
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:07:00 - [1584]
 

Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Originally by: Svennig
Wait, there's high rewards out here? For the general membership that is, since the anom nerf?


Try living in Syndicate or some other region with truely horrible rats/anoms in a sea of non-blues without any jump bridges to secure safer travel and then get back to me about 'lack of high reward.'


Take Sov. It's better than Syndicate. I can see the poster now.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:08:00 - [1585]
 

Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Originally by: Yeep
The Syndicate thats full of level 4 mission agents? Or some other Syndicate?


You are, without a doubt, the first person to ever claim a bounty of PvE opportunities in Syndicate.

Congratulations to you, Captian.


Yeah, because I'm definitely not a member of an alliance that grew up in Syndicate so theres no way I could know anything about making money there.

Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:16:00 - [1586]
 

Originally by: bp920091


Please also note who supports this change and who opposes it. Those who oppose it are 0.0 holders who LIVE in 0.0, and those who support it are either highsec players, lowsec players (im looking RIGHT at you Liang), Botters (DRF, who dont care about the state of 0.0, as long as they can make REAL LIFE cash by playing eve illegally), or Pandemic Legion (who has countless titans and does not really hold ANY space)


You forgot to mention small gang PvP'ers who roam out to your sov space for fights who don't have access to jump networks.

This change will certainly up our profile for killing your bears and generating response fleets that we get to fight or dodge. Certainly effects us.

Quote:
How about this, for a good risk/reward relationship, make 0.0 far more PROFITABLE, as it is far more dangerous (ever heard of doomsdays, bombs, interdiction spheres, and other 0.0 goodies)


Your space is full of cloaky T3's running anoms and plexes. It's pleanty profitable. Non-Sov entities have been living in null sec for years with all the doomsday/bombs/interdiction threats and much larger blobbing SOV entities without the benefit of jump bridges or even decent true-sec rats to harvest.

Harden up.

Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:19:00 - [1587]
 

Edited by: Nestor Laurenitis on 11/05/2011 16:19:15
Originally by: Svennig

Take Sov. It's better than Syndicate. I can see the poster now.


Yeah, we don't do Sov. We'd mouth shoot our mouth first.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:23:00 - [1588]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 16:24:20
Originally by: Messy Beaver
There are corporations/alliances out there that want to make that first step into 0.0 to gain knowledge, experience. Without the power blocs it is impossible to do atm.

Btw several of the corps at the centre of your alliance started that way, living out of pos's making less isk than they could in empire but in turn having space they could call their own.

It's a shame that they would then turn into the corps that came up with "lets hire mercs against PL to help us keep our space" as their best strategy(seriously that still keeps me chuckling)

I started out that way. Then the NC of that time rolled us (D2, Razer, and friends). Then we did it again, but in the NE this time. We got rolled again (don't remember which long dead alliances that time). Then I joined IAC who were rolled by goons and -A-. Then we joined another that was rolled by the SC. Then another that died because of the threat of the SC. Then another that was an NC pet, then it became an SC pet, then the NC killed it. Then an Atlas pet, rolled by PL and the testies. Then an NC member, rolled by the DRF. I'm not a coalition fanboi.

Point is, many null corps started out like that. Many long time null players remember those days. I honestly could care less what the NC is doing right now. I haven't been flying with them since they let two idiots suicide super fleets into lag multiple times and kept giving him the ability to call CTAs. I don't like blobs. I don't like lag. These changes to null aren't going to help either problem.

Astronomix
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:24:00 - [1589]
 

Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
You forgot to mention small gang PvP'ers who roam out to your sov space for fights who don't have access to jump networks.

This change will certainly up our profile for killing your bears and generating response fleets that we get to fight or dodge. Certainly effects us.

Non-Sov entities have been living in null sec for years with all the doomsday/bombs/interdiction threats and much larger blobbing SOV entities without the benefit of jump bridges or even decent true-sec rats to harvest.



Nail hit on the head by Nestor here.

This certainly affects those who don't have sov but fight those who do hold sov in a big, big way.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:24:00 - [1590]
 

Dudes stop spamming and use your edit function, its against the rules to post after your own post


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