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Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:49:00 - [1471]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe

Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?


Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?




=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.


Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.


Nah, we'll see all sorts of new stupidity as freighters using a JB network will have to cross a gate every jump. It does open up the possibility for more ganks.

Now what we really need is what CCP promised with dominion. Anchorable defenses on stargates.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:50:00 - [1472]
 

Originally by: Cellistara

Then who would build all the supers and titans?


Hopefully noone, but i guess there will be some indy pilots left even if the stupid ones disappear.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:51:00 - [1473]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:

Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers"
while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.


Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.

1. Somebody clicking disband

2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.

3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.

Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.


Small gangs have always been irrelevant in 0.0 and will continue to be irrelevant.


Nah, they're not irrelevant. They can cause alliances to hemorrhage members by annoying the crap out of ratters and pvpers alike. They can make space unlivable if they're active enough and rarely lose any ships to their targets.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:51:00 - [1474]
 

Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 13:52:48
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:

Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers"
while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.


Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.

1. Somebody clicking disband

2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.

3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.

Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.


1. Yeah wont happen unless they get on the DRF payroll.
2. Pretty much
3. Not really, the only people doing much in 0.0 outside pvp are industrialists and noobs, otherwise people have hisec missioning alts, more isk from that than doing anoms these days, unless you mission in npc null, good isk from pirate bpcs.

Miners, producers, and noobs are the ones who suffer more. No one else. Oh logistics pilots.

Philip Jones
Gallente
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:53:00 - [1475]
 

Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.

Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.

Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.

This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.

The only issue is timing of this tbh.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:57:00 - [1476]
 

Originally by: Cellistara
Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 13:52:48
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:

Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers"
while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.


Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.

1. Somebody clicking disband

2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.

3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.

Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.


1. Yeah wont happen unless they get on the DRF payroll.
2. Pretty much
3. Not really, the only people doing much in 0.0 outside pvp are industrialists and noobs, otherwise people have hisec missioning alts, more isk from that than doing anoms these days, unless you mission in npc null, good isk from pirate bpcs.

Miners, producers, and noobs are the ones who suffer more. No one else. Oh logistics pilots.


Well yes since the anomaly nerf things have gone **** up for 0.0 space.

Dominion launched and we saw the sudden overabundance of previously rare minerals, driving all mining down and averaging out the value of all 0.0 space.

Moon minerals were changed prior to that making no one moon terribly more remarkable than another. Some are valuable but none are so valuable that it's orders of magnitude.

Ratting in 0.0 became the order of the day. Belt rats weren't terribly viable so it became all about the anoms and complexes. Complexes have needed love for ages, and anomalies got nerfed so hard they became just as useless as belt ratting.

In short, 0.0 was hit with so many nerfs all 0.0 space became more or less averaged out in value. And CCP wonders why nobody is fighting? Just wondering, does constellation sov even still exist?

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:57:00 - [1477]
 

Originally by: Ghurthe

Nah, they're not irrelevant. They can cause alliances to hemorrhage members by annoying the crap out of ratters and pvpers alike. They can make space unlivable if they're active enough and rarely lose any ships to their targets.


Lol.

Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T.
V.L.A.S.T
Posted - 2011.05.11 13:59:00 - [1478]
 

Heh look at you... YES YOU!
grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds

you are pathetic...

Mr Stark
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:00:00 - [1479]
 

Originally by: Philip Jones
The only issue is timing of this tbh.



It does seem to be getting rushed through to coincide with a certain invasion doesnt it...

Taipion
Caldari
Operations Control
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:02:00 - [1480]
 

Originally by: Ghurthe

Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?


Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?




=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.


Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.


Nah, we'll see all sorts of new stupidity as freighters using a JB network will have to cross a gate every jump. It does open up the possibility for more ganks.

Now what we really need is what CCP promised with dominion. Anchorable defenses on stargates.




Anchorable defenses on Stargates, as good as it sounds, is no more usefull than Anchorable Bubbles, you either have someone there 23/7, or set it up and tear it down every every every time...
Would be much like the mines that were once there, anyone remembers?

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:03:00 - [1481]
 

Originally by: Taipion
Originally by: Ghurthe

Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?


Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?




=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.


Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.


Nah, we'll see all sorts of new stupidity as freighters using a JB network will have to cross a gate every jump. It does open up the possibility for more ganks.

Now what we really need is what CCP promised with dominion. Anchorable defenses on stargates.




Anchorable defenses on Stargates, as good as it sounds, is no more usefull than Anchorable Bubbles, you either have someone there 23/7, or set it up and tear it down every every every time...
Would be much like the mines that were once there, anyone remembers?


Nah wasn't around for mines, well CCP was promising all sorts of nifty sov upgrades like defenses, buuuut after all it's ccp.

Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:04:00 - [1482]
 

Originally by: Megy Feel
Heh look at you... YES YOU!
grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds

you are pathetic...


If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.. true story :D

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:04:00 - [1483]
 

Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 14:06:21
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Cellistara
Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 13:52:48
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:

Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers"
while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.


Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.

1. Somebody clicking disband

2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.

3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.

Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.


1. Yeah wont happen unless they get on the DRF payroll.
2. Pretty much
3. Not really, the only people doing much in 0.0 outside pvp are industrialists and noobs, otherwise people have hisec missioning alts, more isk from that than doing anoms these days, unless you mission in npc null, good isk from pirate bpcs.

Miners, producers, and noobs are the ones who suffer more. No one else. Oh logistics pilots.


Well yes since the anomaly nerf things have gone **** up for 0.0 space.

Dominion launched and we saw the sudden overabundance of previously rare minerals, driving all mining down and averaging out the value of all 0.0 space.

Moon minerals were changed prior to that making no one moon terribly more remarkable than another. Some are valuable but none are so valuable that it's orders of magnitude.

Ratting in 0.0 became the order of the day. Belt rats weren't terribly viable so it became all about the anoms and complexes. Complexes have needed love for ages, and anomalies got nerfed so hard they became just as useless as belt ratting.

In short, 0.0 was hit with so many nerfs all 0.0 space became more or less averaged out in value. And CCP wonders why nobody is fighting? Just wondering, does constellation sov even still exist?


Nah usually theres only going to be 1 or 2 systems occupied and upgraded in a constellation, usually whatever system has a station. The only gangs we ever see come out of npc space and its always hacs and or drams in groups of less than 10, so its pretty much guaranteed that unless you're alone, there wont be a fight so we just wait em out cause they get bored pretty easily and go back to missioning after an hour usually. Otherwise its cloakers who enter a sys, kill some noctis or retriever, then go afk the rest of the day, not there for kills, just to disrupt industry, occasionally alt tabbing into EVE poking something and alt tabbing back out. Since everyone's so concentrated all that has to happen is half the people in a system undock when a gang comes through and then they'll come post on the EVEO forums that all 0.0 people do is blob and it's ruining small gang pvp. That's pvp in 0.0.

Rumpelstilski
Caldari
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:05:00 - [1484]
 

Originally by: Philip Jones
Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.

Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.

Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.

This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.

The only issue is timing of this tbh.

If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....

Oh wai-


Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible

Lira Reib
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:07:00 - [1485]
 

IT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA TO FORCE EVERYBODY IN 0.0 TO MULTIBOX AND HAVE A CARRIER ALT

you are literally ******ed

Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:07:00 - [1486]
 

Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Philip Jones
Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.

Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.

Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.

This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.

The only issue is timing of this tbh.

If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....

Oh wai-


Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible


back under the bridge with you!..
and nerf supercaps \o/

AntISGhey
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:07:00 - [1487]
 

Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Philip Jones
Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.

Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.

Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.

This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.

The only issue is timing of this tbh.

If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....

Oh wai-


Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible


Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.

Viktoria Potsfel
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:10:00 - [1488]
 

Originally by: AntISGhey
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Philip Jones
Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.

Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.

Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.

This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.

The only issue is timing of this tbh.

If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....

Oh wai-


Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible


Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.


i always get a little smile on my lips when some PL guy comments on things regarding holding sov :D

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:11:00 - [1489]
 

Originally by: Cellistara


Nah usually theres only going to be 1 or 2 systems occupied and upgraded in a constellation, usually whatever system has a station. The only gangs we ever see come out of npc space and its always hacs and or drams in groups of less than 10, so its pretty much guaranteed that unless you're alone, there wont be a fight so we just wait em out cause they get bored pretty easily and go back to missioning after an hour usually. Otherwise its cloakers who enter a sys, kill some noctis or retriever, then go afk the rest of the day, not there for kills, just to disrupt industry, occasionally alt tabbing into EVE poking something and alt tabbing back out. That's pvp in 0.0.


Yup, totally is. To be completely honest I really enjoy messing with miners and bears by hitting one or two of them a week and kicking back while they wonder if I'm at work or at the keyboard. 0.0 pvp does need work, this won't fix it much. But it's certainly a step forward.

Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T.
V.L.A.S.T
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:11:00 - [1490]
 

Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Megy Feel
Heh look at you... YES YOU!
grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds

you are pathetic...


If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.. true story :D


I too write the same line over and over again in every page i can...
I liked your other alt better.
Also try harder cute lil bunnyWink

rcs619
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:16:00 - [1491]
 

The amount of b'awwing and doom-saying in this thread is amazing.

You guys DO realize that they aren't removing jump bridges from the game, right? They're still going to be there. You can still have a large, far-reaching jump bridge network, you'll just only be able to have one jump bridge per system. All it will mean is reshuffling and optimizing the jump bridges already in place. Instead of being able to jump bridge to the system right next door, the bridge network may just be limited to connecting key systems together, or connecting various constellations. You'll still be able to travel around fairly quick, this will just mean that you'll need to travel through a stargate between every jump bridge.

Honestly, it isn't even that much of a change, and most of the people in this thread are acting like the sky is falling.

At worst, this change won't do anything. At best, it will encourage more skirmishes at the gates between jump bridge systems, and lead to more opportunities for everyone to PvP.

For all the people talking about how it will be a ganker's paradise, just look at the current jump bridges. The only effective way to camp a jump bridge is with bombers. Ganking is all there is. You sit there, and hope to catch some lone hauler or battlecruiser. This will encourage people to not travel alone, and maybe even create more instances of the travel fleets coming into contact with the roaming skirmish gangs that are out looking for kills.

Also, all you NC people that are complaining, imagine how many billions of isk will be freed up if the NC sheds some of its extraneous jump bridges. That's more isk for ship reimbursment, POS fuel, ammo, and so on. Assuming it doesn't wind up just padding someone's pocket.

Come on people, stop running around and screaming like some kind of streetcorner bum with a tinfoil hat, and maybe this thread could get a decent discussion going.

Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:18:00 - [1492]
 

Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Megy Feel
Heh look at you... YES YOU!
grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds

you are pathetic...


If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.. true story :D


I too write the same line over and over again in every page i can...
I liked your other alt better.
Also try harder cute lil bunnyWink


pretty much my standard reply to boring trolls, some trolls are amusing :D

Your previous post looks more like an il-adjusted teenager then a 4yo.. so i guess ur 1 up on me hehe

Philip Jones
Gallente
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:18:00 - [1493]
 

Edited by: Philip Jones on 11/05/2011 14:19:41
Originally by: Rumpelstilski


Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible


oh wow, straight to insults, well done you win.

How are we rating terribleness, KB stats; alliance we are in; isk destoyed on all ours chars or just this one?

If game mechanics are fine, why are so many PL happy about this change in the future?

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:19:00 - [1494]
 

Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Cellistara


Nah usually theres only going to be 1 or 2 systems occupied and upgraded in a constellation, usually whatever system has a station. The only gangs we ever see come out of npc space and its always hacs and or drams in groups of less than 10, so its pretty much guaranteed that unless you're alone, there wont be a fight so we just wait em out cause they get bored pretty easily and go back to missioning after an hour usually. Otherwise its cloakers who enter a sys, kill some noctis or retriever, then go afk the rest of the day, not there for kills, just to disrupt industry, occasionally alt tabbing into EVE poking something and alt tabbing back out. That's pvp in 0.0.


Yup, totally is. To be completely honest I really enjoy messing with miners and bears by hitting one or two of them a week and kicking back while they wonder if I'm at work or at the keyboard. 0.0 pvp does need work, this won't fix it much. But it's certainly a step forward.


I'd like to actually see some small gang pvp, I ran 8 accounts and liked to go on roams while I did my thing with the miners (mining is still **** CCP, how bout you give us a cap mining ship for 0.0). But with a 10 man gang npc guys would do the same thing we do, throw 30 people at us, then get mad when reinforcements came, or play station games. If we went to someone elses space, we'd get 50 man HD gangs. PVP in 0.0 is all about numbers, dont have em, dont fight. Best fights I've seen were when hisec gangs would roam into our space with 50 or 60 people and we'd have a good fight. Don't get that from people anymore.

Gnaw LF
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:20:00 - [1495]
 

Originally by: Ghurthe
I, for one, support the changes to Jump Bridges. The complicated 2 JB / system loops allowed for some very safe travel of ships like freighters and industrials. And while this is a significant change to 0.0 alliances that rely heavily on JB networks, I feel it's one for the best.

Finally smaller gangs reasonably disrupt the supply lines of larger alliances and actually cause the 'Death by a thousand paper cuts' that many people have wanted to be able to cause.

Titans no longer being able to bridge in is also nice, it means that cyno jammed systems need to cycle down the jammer to get more titans in.

Overall good changes, there was a hint in this thread of removing unscannable ships in some way. While I agree perfect unscannable-ness is broken, I'd like to see some resistance to being scanned down still exist. *Crosses fingers that those changes take till 2014*


Then the 0.0 alliance should be able to retaliate and chase the small gangs/corps/npc 0.0 alliances away from their NPC stations. Otherwise you would have one side with risk free pvp and the other with risk everything pvp.

Paukinra
Gallente
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:23:00 - [1496]
 

Edited by: Paukinra on 11/05/2011 14:27:21
Yay! Yet another nerf to 0.0 might as well go back to high sec at this rate :/

I can kinda see that jump drive ships shouldnt be able to use JBs but what if you want a system cyno jammed? (although I can kinda see an arguement there for safe(tm) capitals)

I do think, however, Jump Freighters and Rorqual's should be allowed to use them.

Edit: maybe not so much rorquals thinking about it...

As for these:
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
No - but Im not sure it will ever be possible to do with out change moon goo so all regoins have all types of goo.

Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Since ANom nerf no - i can only just earn more ratting in hubs than I could level 4s - that isnt risk/reward paying off to me.

Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
If your goal is to lag everybody out then yes.

Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
Not really unless its just greifing or for merc contracts - although I do see a few non-sov gangs around where I live so I guess some people find a reason.

Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
Well, I interact with my corp alot and a few key players in my alliance alot but as for blues and NAPs - nope never talk with then or do anything with them (but then Im only a corp director nothing intercorp let alone alliance).

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:25:00 - [1497]
 

Why is CCP making war on null sec? 1st the Anom nerf (which has pushed me and many of my corp/alliance mates to return our NPCing alts to run missions/incursions in empire to fund pvp, making for FEWER targets in null sec), now making null sec harder to maneuver in?

It doesn't matter that CCP isn't taking JBs away, it matters that CCP is lowering (maybe not outright killing) a lot of the things that make null sec attractive.

How does making Null sec a more tedious place to live attract more players to it? How does making null sec a PITA encourage more of the ship killing pvp that supposedly drives the eve economy.

CCP should be buffing null (and low) sec, not nerfing it. No, the changes won't kill the more diehard null sec dwellers like me, we'll adapt as usual, but I'd prefer null sec grow (and with it, more pew pew), and these kinds of changes are counter to that idea.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:26:00 - [1498]
 

Originally by: Gnaw LF
Originally by: Ghurthe
I, for one, support the changes to Jump Bridges. The complicated 2 JB / system loops allowed for some very safe travel of ships like freighters and industrials. And while this is a significant change to 0.0 alliances that rely heavily on JB networks, I feel it's one for the best.

Finally smaller gangs reasonably disrupt the supply lines of larger alliances and actually cause the 'Death by a thousand paper cuts' that many people have wanted to be able to cause.

Titans no longer being able to bridge in is also nice, it means that cyno jammed systems need to cycle down the jammer to get more titans in.

Overall good changes, there was a hint in this thread of removing unscannable ships in some way. While I agree perfect unscannable-ness is broken, I'd like to see some resistance to being scanned down still exist. *Crosses fingers that those changes take till 2014*


Then the 0.0 alliance should be able to retaliate and chase the small gangs/corps/npc 0.0 alliances away from their NPC stations. Otherwise you would have one side with risk free pvp and the other with risk everything pvp.


It's the alliances choice to occupy space and put it on the line. End of story, even if you pushed 0.0 sov all the way to high sec, then you'd just have people roam in from highsec.

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:26:00 - [1499]
 

Originally by: AntISGhey
Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.


And it's PL and CCP that are forcing you to go AFK in your scrub titan at a JB POS with password "bff" right? It has nothing to do with your members being utterly **** and totally ******ed. I can totally see that.

Imagine having to anchor a second secure POS somewhere and idle in there... oh god no... that would require an IQ above 5.

Froosh
Incidental Damage
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:27:00 - [1500]
 

ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?


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