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Needa3
Minmatar
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:21:00 - [1261]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3
Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.


Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.

Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"

If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.



so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"

Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.


No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)


so i take it you are getting rid of the easy mode probing too? also removing the web and missle nerf?

boosting small gang pvp warfare yet everything you change requires blobs


also NC tears (posting with mains and through alts) = best tears


Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:25:00 - [1262]
 

Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 08:27:24
Originally by: Needa3
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3
Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.


Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.

Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"

If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.



so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"

Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.


No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)


so i take it you are getting rid of the easy mode probing too? also removing the web and missle nerf?

boosting small gang pvp warfare yet everything you change requires blobs


also NC tears (posting with mains and through alts) = best tears




You must have missed the part about removing unprobable ECCM mechanics. Want a tissue?

Also, watching BE sperg over people refusing to fly into their dated and obvious mousetrap = Best Tears

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:28:00 - [1263]
 

The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.

This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.

Svennig
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:29:00 - [1264]
 

Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 08:34:39
Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 08:30:01
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman
Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.



I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.


Are you serious? Have you listened to the comments in this thread AT ALL?

Let me make you a summary.

  1. This change is being rolled out with way too little notice (not a statement on the appropriateness of the change, merely the magnitude of it in relation to the warning time)

  2. This is the second recent change to 0.0 which has a serious negative impact upon the alliance residents there. Significantly, to the logistics guys who are now tearing their hear out because of the ****player timescale.

  3. There have been no positive changes to 0.0, no announaced well-defined plans for positive changes to 0.0, no well-voiced ideas for positive changes to 0.0 from CCP. These would give us a context in which to evaluate these changes. If the government said that we're taking roads away, we'd be ****ed. If they said we're taking roads away and replacing them with startrek-style replicators so we don't have to go to supermarkets, we'd probably be a little more receptive to the trade.

  4. You HAVE stated that a big overhaul, when these things will be considered, is coming. But you (for a reason you've thusfar staggeringly failed to communicate) decided to jump the gun, and go about making changes right now, in isolation, without any of the other improvements and nerfs, without any time for the ramifications of the changes to be considered.

  5. Even taking you at your word that 0.0 is going to get a complete overhaul, we have to live with this JB nerf and sanctum nerf mess for 6-7 months (at least) without any of the positive changes for no reason. There is no reason to roll out this change now. It's not urgent. It doesn't need to be deployed now. The game isn't going to break between now and then. It's not going to make the servers explode. Why are you ****ing the game for 6-7 months and then supposedly fixing it?! It's absolutely bizarre.

  6. Other aspects of 0.0 which are already unbalanced, such as the preponderance of capitals and supercaptials, are significantly buffed by this change.

  7. There are ideas within this thread which deserve to be pondered more closely. For example, if this change is about creating more combat then increase the range of JBs slightly so that we can have choke points AND not have the average member suffering from increased transit times.



Originally by: CCP Soundwave

I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today.



Honestly? You don't think a beating and a cookie would go down better than beating after beating? The only way that your argument holds water is if there's going to be no upside. That you're just planning on ****ing 0.0, so the context of wider changes (in which we might evaluate this JB change) is that the wider changes are ****player as well.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:29:00 - [1265]
 

Originally by: JC Anderson
The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.

This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.


We did fine without tech 3 ships and fighterbombers also. Those should be removed as well.

Cpt Tunguska
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:37:00 - [1266]
 

I read the devblog and just loled about it...Big time Cool CCP, you dont know your own game.

Dear CCP,

if youre truly concerned about "power projection" (I love this term) you should better remove supercaps. Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.

Just look at alliances like white noise and pandemic legion. They just form their 100+ supercap blob and can burn down whole regions just from one npc station system, which is 2 regions away.

Supercapblobs, which need no movement effords, no logistics, no haven while outperforming every subcapital fleet are the only totally imbalanced tools of "power projection". But well you consider some jbs as thread.... Confused

CCP lern your game kkthx.

Needa3
Minmatar
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:38:00 - [1267]
 

Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: JC Anderson
The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.

This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.


We did fine without tech 3 ships and fighterbombers also. Those should be removed as well.


you butt hurt? seems like it ...BTW use a main to post with

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:39:00 - [1268]
 

Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 08:39:17
Originally by: Needa3
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: JC Anderson
The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.

This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.


We did fine without tech 3 ships and fighterbombers also. Those should be removed as well.


you butt hurt? seems like it ...BTW use a main to post with


Why so you can rainbow camp my home. No thanks, I'll heckle you anonymously.

(this alt has 3 ECCM fit)

Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:43:00 - [1269]
 

Quote:
So, if jump drive capable ships can't use a bridge.....how the hell are we supposed to get these ships in or through a cyno jammed system?


'Why does this sword cut both ways?' Laughing

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:44:00 - [1270]
 

CCP should do these devblogs every couple of months just for the sweet delicious tears. Never stop :carebear: crying.

JB changes were surprisingly small, had hoped for more serious nerf.

Don Kartel
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:50:00 - [1271]
 

Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 19:18:18
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
JB MAP

This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh


You should be using this map instead. Much better:

http://nc-jb-map.appspot.com/



What makes me laugh is you guys are posting this but without a doubt your not thinking about the amount of man hours that goes into maintaining that infrastructure. Then you have the maintenance costs of all these systems with jump bridges.

What also makes me laugh is NC/DC took advantage of the tools CCP gave them and used them to their full potential and no one can critisize that. They have done themselves proud by showing what can be accomplished when alliances work together to build a safe enviroment for their player base but at the same time maintaining the stature that got them there in the first place. Too many alliances have tried the same before and failed because they become weak.

I see alot of Anti-NC/DC alliances posting here and saying this is a good idea. The main reason is because this nerf will give them a massive advatage in their current campaign in the north and i feel CCP will be very foolish to deploy thses changes at the moment.

CCP Soundwave needs to get off his high horse and look at all playing styles and not juts his own because himself and the rest of the design team are currently destroying this game.


Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:50:00 - [1272]
 

Originally by: Needa3
so i take it you are getting rid of the easy mode probing too? also removing the web and missle nerf?

boosting small gang pvp warfare yet everything you change requires blobs


also NC tears (posting with mains and through alts) = best tears

I like how you gloat over 'NC Tears' while simultaneously giving a sneak preview of the crying we can expect from yourselves shortly when the risk-free un-probeable Mach is consigned to the scrapheap of history where it belongs Very Happy

Vaju Katru
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:51:00 - [1273]
 

Everyone just think for a second, is common knowledge that nullsec is safer then highsec, this is huge problem. Nullsec, Null Security, No Existent Security, Void Security, Zero Security, Nada Security, Rien Security whatever you call it, the only security that should exist in these areas should be provided by players, not by game mechanics, and last time I checked, jump gates are not players.

Also another big problem with jump gates, they make the universe a small place, being in the far outer regions should have a meaning, instant travelling shouldn’t be possible. It should always be a difficult task to travel in/out o nullsec, with the distance involved and the dangerous around it, players should have to plan convoys for logistics; fleet travelling would be fun and challenging again.

Davader
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:52:00 - [1274]
 

CCP does very well Smile

So big piece of butthurt from claiming alliances members in this topic! That's fantastic Twisted Evil CCP shound't stop in changing JBs, continue nerf JBs and get more butthurt from those lazy 0.0 residents, who used to fly safly by JBs and drop a blob on invading roamings by JBs.

ANGAL 2000
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:52:00 - [1275]
 

Edited by: ANGAL 2000 on 11/05/2011 08:54:49
Originally by: FellRaven
The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.

Get your priorities sorted

I to think ccp need to sort out the RMT nightmare its so hard to get a kil in botting havens like Tenal, Deklein, fountain and the north in general.

I think you need to have a look and see where the real botting is taking place
And where is the tec income you have been mining for year may i ask ill take a shoot on RMT.Rolling Eyes

in full support of the changes thank you ccp for making this game i love more interesting for this old pvper err gankerYARRRR!!

Chi'an
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:55:00 - [1276]
 

Edited by: Chi''an on 11/05/2011 08:55:34
another nail in the coffin for eve...

JB is never "safe" to use, but more a faster way of travel. I think this should be the good payoff for having sov, not nerf it so cost for having sov will be higher Evil or Very Mad

This is definately a blog of a gatecamper

Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:55:00 - [1277]
 

Superb change! 5 years ago we used to have one gangs defending our space, one night a week pr corp out patrolling space. Ops to haul minerals and whatnot. Lots of interraction between players in the corp cause to surivive you had to do things together, you couldnt live out there as a solo player. Now its just meh...

Id take it even further and not allow capitals at all to use the bridges incl normal freighters and also reduce reprocessing ability so more mins must be gathered locally instead of Jita import.


Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:55:00 - [1278]
 

Originally by: Davader
CCP does very well Smile

So big piece of butthurt from claiming alliances members in this topic! That's fantastic Twisted Evil CCP shound't stop in changing JBs, continue nerf JBs and get more butthurt from those lazy 0.0 residents, who used to fly safly by JBs and drop a blob on invading roamings by JBs.


We still have titans. Cry havoc dropped on folks just fine without any significant sov holdings.

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:00:00 - [1279]
 

Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 09:01:17
Originally by: Phigmeta
CCP please listen carefully
[...]
From now on i am NOT paying with a sub .. from now on i will be using isk to buy plex .. I have allways felt that you guys deserved to get some real money ... but ya know what ..... now its time for me to nerf the sub.


You, good sir, are even more imbecilic then one would expect when reading your posts.

When will you ******ed morons (and there are many in this thread) finally understand that CCP don't give a damn if you pay them 15$ a month directly or pay someone else ISK so they give CCP the 15$.

The fact that you don't understand this is a good explanation why you suck so terribly at playing this game. And it's not even got anything to do with inexperience.. I mean I also sucked when I started out but I was never, ever quite THAT brain-dead ******ed...

Sometimes I really lose all trust in humanity when I read ******ed crap like this... it's just baffling.

CCP: please don't go soft due to all these tears. Basically you're doing the non ******ed people a huge favour by having the ******s die in a fire (in-game) or quit. EVE will be a much better place for it.

Best change CCP have proposed in a very long time. <3

Gladius Kokotakus
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:03:00 - [1280]
 

Originally by: Alissa Solette
Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 09:01:17

You, good sir, are even more imbecilic then one would expect when reading your posts.

When will you ******ed morons (and there are many in this thread) finally understand that CCP don't give a damn if you pay them 15$ a month directly or pay someone else ISK so they give CCP the 15$.

The fact that you don't understand this is a good explanation why you suck so terribly at playing this game.

Best change CCP have proposed in a very long time. <3


I would say u suck at math because as i see it 15$ <> 15$+15$.

FellRaven
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:06:00 - [1281]
 

Edited by: FellRaven on 11/05/2011 09:07:07
Originally by: ANGAL 2000
Edited by: ANGAL 2000 on 11/05/2011 08:54:49
Originally by: FellRaven
The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.

Get your priorities sorted

I to think ccp need to sort out the RMT nightmare its so hard to get a kil in botting havens like Tenal, Deklein, fountain and the north in general.

I think you need to have a look and see where the real botting is taking place
And where is the tec income you have been mining for year may i ask ill take a shoot on RMT.Rolling Eyes

in full support of the changes thank you ccp for making this game i love more interesting for this old pvper err gankerYARRRR!!



Says the member of an Alliance who's corps have a history of cheating when they can't win fairly and have now allied themselves with the biggest RMTers in the game.

So if you are man enough support delaying these changes until after we crush you.

FellRaven
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:09:00 - [1282]
 

Where do I make a report to CCP Internal Investigations team?

ExhumeToConsume
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:14:00 - [1283]
 

Seems CCP has never heard of "Titan bridges", "supercarriers", "staging systems" and "jump clones", which are the key drivers of force projection these days Shocked

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:17:00 - [1284]
 

Originally by: Gladius Kokotakus
I would say u suck at math because as i see it 15$ <> 15$+15$.


There are two ways to pay for EVE:

a) Pay CCP 15$ a month directly via PayPal, CC or whatever

b) Have someone else buy the PLEX for you (and thereby pay CCP 15$ per 30 day PLEX)

In both cases CCP receives 15$ per month and account.

While I agree that 15 != 15+15 I don't see how this is relevant in regards to my above post.

But tbh if I were you I'd login to the game and get started on redesigning that JB network of yours instead of failing at the Intarwebz.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:17:00 - [1285]
 

Edited by: JC Anderson on 11/05/2011 09:22:02

Originally by: Gladius Kokotakus
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 09:01:17

You, good sir, are even more imbecilic then one would expect when reading your posts.

When will you ******ed morons (and there are many in this thread) finally understand that CCP don't give a damn if you pay them 15$ a month directly or pay someone else ISK so they give CCP the 15$.

The fact that you don't understand this is a good explanation why you suck so terribly at playing this game.

Best change CCP have proposed in a very long time. <3


I would say u suck at math because as i see it 15$ <> 15$+15$.


The PLEX people purchase on the market is PLEX that a PLAYER BOUGHT with real money and put up on the market for sale. CCP already received the money from that PLEX before it ever changed hands in the first place.

This is why they essentially come out on top when PLEX in game happens to be destroyed... They still received the money for it, and yet nobody can use it at that point to pay for a sub. Forcing people to end up buying MORE.

I'm getting the impression that you are under the assumption that PLEX is seeded on the market by CCP.

Though there are the recent whispers of CCP sometimes stepping in to manipulate PLEX prices on the market through limited seeding.

ExhumeToConsume
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:18:00 - [1286]
 

What am I saying? I welcome the new age of huge gatecamps with supercapital blob back-up seconds away (aka "small gang" PeeVeePee)!! YARRRR!!Twisted EvilYARRRR!!Twisted EvilYARRRR!!Twisted EvilYARRRR!!Twisted Evil

Spark's
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:22:00 - [1287]
 

Hmmm, a lot of moaning bears in here. "My navy raven? It's at risk now? Oh noes" Doesn't sound like a big issue tbh. people have to use gates. Lazyness.

PS. have you noticed the amount of NC moaning about this? Dear god, everyone hates you even CCP :P ha

But tbh thinking about this, this means any Alliance with a brain will put the JB's next to each other. I honestly don't think it's a general problem for most people, Unless people have forgotten what a star gate is

Question is, How many alliances/corps/people will leave 0.0. Not many anyway. a few weeks after the change people will have forgotten this and accept the status quo

I do approve of the blog. Good job CCP, put some risk back into 0.0. This might promote solo roaming

Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:23:00 - [1288]
 

The only thing fail legion has going for themselves these days is their spy network. Without that and nerfs in their favor they are pathetic.

Erestas Drake
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:23:00 - [1289]
 

Interrupting forum lurking...

Its sad how far away CCP seems to be from the actual day to day business of small and middle sized 0.0 entities. Instead of fixing the larger concerns first and then revisit this topic when the background actually allows a JB "nerf", we have to endure this misguided actionism.

Really CCP, if you want the smaller guys leave 0.0, just say so.

Rumpelstilski
Caldari
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:23:00 - [1290]
 

Originally by: Don Kartel
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 19:18:18
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
JB MAP

This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh


You should be using this map instead. Much better:

http://nc-jb-map.appspot.com/



What makes me laugh is you guys are posting this but without a doubt your not thinking about the amount of man hours that goes into maintaining that infrastructure. Then you have the maintenance costs of all these systems with jump bridges.

What also makes me laugh is NC/DC took advantage of the tools CCP gave them and used them to their full potential and no one can critisize that. They have done themselves proud by showing what can be accomplished when alliances work together to build a safe enviroment for their player base but at the same time maintaining the stature that got them there in the first place. Too many alliances have tried the same before and failed because they become weak.


Before Dominion PL utilized aoe dd and dyspro to it's full potential, at some point such behavior convinced CCP to nerf those as it was overpowered.

It's what happens to overutilized overpowered mechanics, they get nerfed.

And tbh, they should be nerfed much harder then this, as far as CCP nerfs go this is the wussiest wussy of all wussy nerfs.


But hey, at least it's something


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