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Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 - [421]
 

Edited by: Innominate on 10/05/2011 20:35:53
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.

Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.

I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.


I like how you totally ignored the last(and most important) section. (Original Post)

Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 - [422]
 

Awesome changes. Make a lot more sense than either of the extremes I expected CCP to pick between (nothing vs removing completely).

Nicely done, and please feel free to ignore the vocal minority that will sperg all over this thread.

Regat Kozovv
Caldari
Alcothology
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 - [423]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave


The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.


I hope CCP is content with having the CSM and their alliances as their subscriber base, because that's all they'll be left with in the end.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 - [424]
 

Be honest, I wanted jb out of the game completely and utterly with no replacement.

You don't even know how lucky you are with this alteration.

HTFU and live like the rest of us in 0.0, balls to the wall every gate. Not 100 man blue system to 100 man blue system and no gates life you just apparently got fat on.

Fatties this is your next heart attack

One more and we'll be back to small scale, manageable and fun combat as the chaff returns to high sec to cry over it's beer to cowboy music


Zamiq
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:34:00 - [425]
 

Edited by: Zamiq on 10/05/2011 20:34:25
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning



Regarding your post:

0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.

Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.

I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.



Then why out of so many choices you chose the one that increases tedium?

shadowfire88
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:35:00 - [426]
 

The 1 jb per system nerf is good but not letting caps use jump bridges is dumb. It pretty much completely destroys the usefulness of cyno jammers.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:35:00 - [427]
 

Guess what Guys
They are Saving Tribute Quick Take out their Jabber... DDoS them QUICKLY

Oh snap they switched TS GO GO Down that one aswell we cant win if they are organized.

LegendaryFrog
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:35:00 - [428]
 

Edited by: LegendaryFrog on 10/05/2011 20:36:19
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning



Regarding your post:

0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.

Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.

I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.


If the goal is accessible open world pvp, shouldn't doing something about supercapitals be the top priority? This is a change that has a MINOR potential positive effect on this kind of pvp accessibility, while at the same time having a MAJOR potential negative effect on the same thing(increasing the relative efficiency with which supercapitals can project power and influence with little risk to themselves, except from more supercapitals).

This change should not be released in isolation for a variety of reasons. It needs to packaged with a supercapital nerf and an overall rebalancing of 0.0 living and warfare objectives. Releasing it now, over half a year before you plan to address any of the other issues, will likely leave the game in a worse state for that duration.

Cheekything
Gallente
Black Lance
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 - [429]
 

So rather than fixing them.... your going to break them even more.

*Commences sarcastic slow clap*

Helen
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 - [430]
 

Originally by: Bobbeh

Still not helping the issue which is We arent the ones breaking the EULA to win the war. Or committing illegal acts to win. and Yet CCP endorses them and their Russian Masters.


I'm in your servers breaking your hamsters!Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Cpt Sobel
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 - [431]
 

Oh and did anyone else notice the only people supporting the change are people who don't hold any sov or the people who just jump supers on top of everyone? No need for jump bridges for either one

Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 - [432]
 

Using a system gate to access the next jumpbridge in one's own sov space? Seriously?! How do gates even work, what with all those glyphs and buttons and dropdowns and lights and noisesohgodhelp

Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 - [433]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.

So 24 months from now, what are the chances we'll be begging you guys to please implement the rest of the nullsec tweaks cause you're killing us here?

You know, like with faction warfare, treaties...

mvrck22
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 - [434]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
is what you have a CSM for, right?



The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.


Diverge, or divulge? =P

Zamiq
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 - [435]
 

Originally by: Spurty
Be honest, I wanted jb out of the game completely and utterly with no replacement.

You don't even know how lucky you are with this alteration.

HTFU and live like the rest of us in 0.0, balls to the wall every gate. Not 100 man blue system to 100 man blue system and no gates life you just apparently got fat on.

Fatties this is your next heart attack

One more and we'll be back to small scale, manageable and fun combat as the chaff returns to high sec to cry over it's beer to cowboy music






If you dont like the perks that alliance get then you are already in the perfect place. So dont complain. If you do like the perks then go and earn them. That was the whole point of this game, ability to impact the world, not spend countless hours moving **** in and out.

sinfulangel
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 - [436]
 

Edited by: sinfulangel on 10/05/2011 20:37:49
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


Regarding your post:

0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.

Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.

I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.


Pure win good sir.

Minigin
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 - [437]
 

Edited by: Minigin on 10/05/2011 20:38:58
if this thread has shown us anything, it is that jumpbridges have already been more of a headache for ccp than they were worth. i say remove them and be done with it!


ps. i cant get my head around you people who somehow feel you are ENTITLED to something that was introduced 4 years after the release of this game...

there was an eve before jbs there will be one after.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 - [438]
 

Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 20:38:17
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.



This makes 0.0 even more of a battleground than it already is and not a place you live in. Especially for the normal grunts in an alliance. The only difference is that there is no limit on numbers when it comes to fights.

Lynn Deniera
Caldari
The Foreign Legion
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:38:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.

There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.

You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.

Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!

So'rren
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:38:00 - [440]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave


The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.


Which ones were pleased so we know not to vote for them again.

Also note that the CSM isn't representative of EVE and mentioning them does not impress us.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:38:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
is what you have a CSM for, right?



The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.


Diverge, or divulge? =P



Divulge, jesus I butchered that.

Cuddlebear
Caldari
Snuggle Soft
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:40:00 - [442]
 

Holy goonie/nc rage roflroflroflrofl

Ohfor Godsake
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:40:00 - [443]
 

This is clinically ******ed.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:40:00 - [444]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
is what you have a CSM for, right?



The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.


Diverge, or divulge? =P



Divulge, jesus I butchered that.


just like you managed to do with 0.0. you sir are clueless

Insidious
0utbreak
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:41:00 - [445]
 

Edited by: Insidious on 10/05/2011 20:41:18
\o/ resubscribed after a year off partly due to ccp vision last year and players trends because of it \o/ I wont die of old age waiting for the game to get good again

thanks ccp !!!

Tonemaster B
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:41:00 - [446]
 

Hah Hah look at all the people scared to go through stargates !


CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:41:00 - [447]
 

Originally by: Lynn Deniera
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.

There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.

You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.

Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!


I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.

Bring Stabity
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:42:00 - [448]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
is what you have a CSM for, right?



The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.


Diverge, or divulge? =P



Divulge, jesus I butchered that.


Not the first thing you've butchered today.

Zamiq
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:43:00 - [449]
 

Originally by: Minigin
Edited by: Minigin on 10/05/2011 20:38:58
if this thread has shown us anything, it is that jumpbridges have already been more of a headache for ccp than they were worth. i say remove them and be done with it!


ps. i cant get my head around you people who somehow feel you are ENTITLED to something that was introduced 4 years after the release of this game...

there was an eve before jbs there will be one after.



Cause some people subscribed to the game after EvE was out for 4 years. These people have done a serious investment into the game and its understandable that they might not like a potential change that will double the time required to move goods/ships. Now, if you dont like these people complaining then fine you can stick with "there was eve before this and this change" but then you must realize that the people who are not happy with the change will leave and this in now way will increase the pvp rations in null.

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:43:00 - [450]
 

The best part about this thread is all the ~elite~ pvp alliances crowing about how excited they are for an increase in gate camps. I guess if you're not able to actually have a nullsec empire then gatecamping is the next best thing? Congrats I guess...


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