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Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.05.12 00:11:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Vod****
Since we are looking at agent bugs here. How about adding a single storyline agent to 'The Interbus' faction. You can mission all you want for them and never get a storyline mission, because they forgot to make one.

It's not a bug, it's deliberate. Missioning for Interbus was deemed too easy a way to get all empire faction standings up (can't find the quote but IIRC it was soon after I started playing, so a while ago).

I just wish they had 1 station with an LP store..

Aoki Ayumi
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.05.12 01:17:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Aoki Ayumi on 12/05/2011 01:17:52
All the following move to Mining:

* Astrosurveying (37% Courier, 58% Encounter, 2% Mining, 2% Trade)

Why?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.12 03:38:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Aoki Ayumi
Edited by: Aoki Ayumi on 12/05/2011 01:17:52
All the following move to Mining:

* Astrosurveying (37% Courier, 58% Encounter, 2% Mining, 2% Trade)

Why?
well, astrosurveying is supposed to be a mining agent afterall.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.12 06:50:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/05/2011 18:09:04
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/05/2011 08:13:42
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/05/2011 06:53:18

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
All agents will pay out like +20. If you have a specific agent that's broken, please tell me which one so we can verify.



R&D agents. They give out RP as if they had -5 quality before negotiation. Already bug reported.

Edit: Why some agent has been removed? First thing I noticed is that the 4 Quafe agents in Iro have been moved away from that system or removed from the game.


Edit 2:
After some further thought, probably R&D agents don't apply the negotiation skill at all. The payout will be consistent with the "all agents quality has been set at 20" and no negotiation bonus.

I checked only with characters with negotiation 5. Will check with a character with less negotiation as soon as I am home.


Edit 3:
confirmed, Negotiation don't affect RP point production.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.12 07:47:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Vod****
Since we are looking at agent bugs here. How about adding a single storyline agent to 'The Interbus' faction. You can mission all you want for them and never get a storyline mission, because they forgot to make one.



It is a intended feature as it would give positive standing to all the empire factions, something that CCP don't like.
That was several times by Devs around the forum, but the relevant posts are old and searching for them is a pain.

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.05.12 11:20:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Sarmatiko
Nothing wrong with payouts.
What about broken Personnel/Advisory divisions? Converting them from "combat with courier" to "only courier" type is strange and frustrating for many of us.

It's disturbing indeed, as a lot of corporation only have L4 mixed bag division agents, which now all will become low reward couriers. What about making 2 replacement agents instead for these divisions: one courier and one combat?

Originally by: Kuronaga
so theres no point in doing lowsec/nullsec missions then?

Isn't it so that security of the system still counts??!

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
All agents will pay out like +20. If you have a specific agent that's broken, please tell me which one so we can verify.

This is very nice to hear! Finally my Khanid Navy agent wil be +20 and not -16!! Razz

Any news about the "X connections" skills? Will they just be removed and we get our SP reimbursed?

Aoki Ayumi
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.05.12 11:48:00 - [37]
 

I thought astrosurveying was to keep the security of the mining belts, not mining them directly.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.05.12 12:40:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Aoki Ayumi
I thought astrosurveying was to keep the security of the mining belts, not mining them directly.


Astrosurveying = surveying asteroids. No idea why ccp had them only giving 2% mining mission before, was always a bit strange.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.12 14:22:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 12/05/2011 14:23:37
Originally by: Cathy Drall

This is very nice to hear! Finally my Khanid Navy agent wil be +20 and not -16!! Razz


So? With the LP skills gone, you'll probably be making less LP. You might want to see what the LP payout is on the test server.

Quote:
Any news about the "X connections" skills? Will they just be removed and we get our SP reimbursed?


From what I saw in Sisi, the skillpoints were reimbursed. Of course, I also saw that while the LP skills were removed from my character, you could still buy the LP skillbooks and train them.

I guess they're still deciding what to do with the LP skill books: either get rid of them, or replace them with fewer LP skillbooks now that we have just three agent types?



Gondebine
Posted - 2011.05.12 14:24:00 - [40]
 

I really hate the changes. What's the point? It just forces people to move to new mission hubs (0.5 sec, many kill agents, no low sec systems around). And it takes a fair bit of "depth" away from mission running. LP skills gone => less possibility to "specialise" in it. Divisions gone => no more fun finding "your" best system for missionrunning and so on. For a mission runner Eve will become much more boring.

Hey, are the devs trying to simplify the game to make it more appealing? Bad idea. The people who like EVE sure dont do so because it's so simple...

Please don't let these changes go live. Pleeease DOOOON'T!

Aoki Ayumi
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.05.12 14:39:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Gondebine
I really hate the changes. What's the point? It just forces people to move to new mission hubs (0.5 sec, many kill agents, no low sec systems around). And it takes a fair bit of "depth" away from mission running. LP skills gone => less possibility to "specialise" in it. Divisions gone => no more fun finding "your" best system for missionrunning and so on. For a mission runner Eve will become much more boring.

Hey, are the devs trying to simplify the game to make it more appealing? Bad idea. The people who like EVE sure dont do so because it's so simple...

Please don't let these changes go live. Pleeease DOOOON'T!


Signed.
Missions mechanics are very simple. No changes are needed.
What do you want CCP? that every mission player do missions in the same solar system? 5000 players using the same agent?

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.05.12 14:53:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Von Kroll on 12/05/2011 14:54:50
IMO, the sec status of the system will need to be addressed, otherwise, everyone dogpiles the high-sec agents in .5 systems just like they do now with the high quality agents. So, no modifier for high-sec, regardless of sec rating, some sort of flat modifier for low-sec agents, and a higher modifier for null-sec agents.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2011.05.12 15:18:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Aoki Ayumi
Signed.
Missions mechanics are very simple. No changes are needed.
What do you want CCP? that every mission player do missions in the same solar system? 5000 players using the same agent?

Noone changed missin mechanics, as far as I can tell. The agent choice, on other hand, was a problem. They addressed it. A bit rude, i'd say, but the change as I see it is mostly for good.

Omnara
Posted - 2011.05.12 15:49:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Von Kroll
Edited by: Von Kroll on 12/05/2011 14:54:50
IMO, the sec status of the system will need to be addressed, otherwise, everyone dogpiles the high-sec agents in .5 systems just like they do now with the high quality agents. So, no modifier for high-sec, regardless of sec rating, some sort of flat modifier for low-sec agents, and a higher modifier for null-sec agents.


Yes. clearly doing so would not make the highsec-bears dogpile in the missionhubs with high security and close to tradehubs... Rolling Eyes

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2011.05.12 16:17:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 12/05/2011 16:20:07
Make hisec-losec transition a bit more evident to reflect actual security change (eg by making hidden agent quality different, -20 for hisec and +20 for lowsec or whatever other numbers, just keep'em different).

0.0 space agents do no need such adjustment as they reside just in 0.0 (with few exceptions like Thukker Mix agents, which also may have their quality aligned towards better payouts in 0.0 space), and their payouts may be regulated only according to desired final isk price of lp store items in the market.

kthxbye

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.05.12 17:20:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Cathy Drall on 12/05/2011 17:28:22
Originally by: stoicfaux
With the LP skills gone, you'll probably be making less LP. You might want to see what the LP payout is on the test server.

I may, but as it now gives 1/3 of what a Q18 gives even with lower system security, hardly more than a L3 Q15 agent .. I can't imagine it gives even less.
Originally by: Gondebine
I really hate the changes. What's the point? It just forces people to move to new mission hubs (0.5 sec, many kill agents, no low sec systems around).

Well if it spreads people out more than before and makes more corps viable to mission for I like the changes.

Saluvatar
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.12 17:30:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 12/05/2011 16:20:07
Make hisec-losec transition a bit more evident to reflect actual security change (eg by making hidden agent quality different, -20 for hisec and +20 for lowsec or whatever other numbers, just keep'em different).



I support this idea.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.05.12 19:11:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Gondebine
I really hate the changes. What's the point? It just forces people to move to new mission hubs (0.5 sec, many kill agents, no low sec systems around). And it takes a fair bit of "depth" away from mission running. LP skills gone => less possibility to "specialise" in it. Divisions gone => no more fun finding "your" best system for missionrunning and so on. For a mission runner Eve will become much more boring.

Hey, are the devs trying to simplify the game to make it more appealing? Bad idea. The people who like EVE sure dont do so because it's so simple...

Please don't let these changes go live. Pleeease DOOOON'T!


/signed

Seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. What sort of idiot complains about not having only one type of mission given out anyway? The courier missions and mining missions were negatives that were part of a balance of having to make a choice.

Does CCP seriously think that many people are actually going to use any of these courier-only or mining-only agents AT ALL? Of course not, everyone will just crowd in the areas where there are combat only mission-givers.

Maybe one or two dedicated miners and hauler types will enjoy the change, but the rest of us (I presume I'm not speaking for myself) actually enjoyed having to work out a balance between the various factors to pick our "home" agent, and took the negatives of the occasional courier mission or whatnot as part of that equation.

This is a bit of dumbing-down that seems totally unnecessary.

And not just that, but from the roleplaying point of view, it actually gave a nice illusion of background complexity to have the different departments. Now agents will seem even more like Pez dispensers.

jyppy
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
Posted - 2011.05.12 20:39:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: jyppy on 12/05/2011 20:47:50
Just checked some figures on sisi.

For the lvl 4 q18 agent in Irjunen (0.5 sec system) for missions like Angel Ex., Worlds Collide etc..

Current reward (with good connection skills) - 8255LP
Singularity reward (no connection skills) - 5993LP

Edit;

Whoa, just found a new skill in the LP store;

Security connections

Understanding of military culture.

Improves loyalty point gain by 10% per level when working for agents in the Security corporation division.

Looks like you'll be able to earn as much LP as before, if not a little more..

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.05.12 21:18:00 - [50]
 

I can confirm 2 new LP related skills have been added. One is security and available at navy-ish LP stores, the other is mining (I assume at industry LP stores but I didn't check). The price for security connections is 15k LP and 10M isk. It has a 2x training modifier (the old LP skills had 1x) and gives a +10% increase per level (old was 5% but with two skills). As such, this should result in absolutely no change in pay for a Q20 agent. It does however raise the LP rewards for agents that were not Q20 originally it appears.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.05.12 21:32:00 - [51]
 

There's now "Security Connections", "Mining Connections" and "Distribution Connections" as described above.

Also, please, pretty please, remove system security effects on mission payout. Or rather, make security of 0.5 and above have the same effect as 1.0 right now, and security of 0.4 and below have the same effect as +0.0 right now. Thank you.

(Oh. And can we please have a fourth division that gives out faction encounter missions and have security give out only pirate encounter missions? Please? :-D)

Proats
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.12 23:00:00 - [52]
 

Where are the patch notes for 257559? Clicking on "view patch notes" here only shows the notes for old patches.

Amdor Renevat
Posted - 2011.05.12 23:59:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
There's now "Security Connections", "Mining Connections" and "Distribution Connections" as described above.

Also, please, pretty please, remove system security effects on mission payout. Or rather, make security of 0.5 and above have the same effect as 1.0 right now, and security of 0.4 and below have the same effect as +0.0 right now. Thank you.

(Oh. And can we please have a fourth division that gives out faction encounter missions and have security give out only pirate encounter missions? Please? :-D)


The problem with making high sec the equivalent of -20 is that the majority of players are in high sec and they don't want a reduction from what they currently get. At a guess I'd say most high sec mission runners look for agents between 12-19 quality, so dumbing all high sec down to -20 is a bad idea. If you really want low sec to get a boost, just ask for +30 level. High sec should stay very close to current payout if not a slight increase. After all, who likes getting nerfed?

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.05.13 00:43:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: ivar R'dhak

Though currently it looks like high sec hubs will be replaced by 0.5 sec hubs. Confused


also all people from gicodel will move to osmon which is already pretty crowded :)

Periapt
Posted - 2011.05.13 04:41:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/05/2011 18:09:04
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/05/2011 08:13:42
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/05/2011 06:53:18

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
All agents will pay out like +20. If you have a specific agent that's broken, please tell me which one so we can verify.



R&D agents. They give out RP as if they had -5 quality before negotiation. Already bug reported.

Edit: Why some agent has been removed? First thing I noticed is that the 4 Quafe agents in Iro have been moved away from that system or removed from the game.


Edit 2:
After some further thought, probably R&D agents don't apply the negotiation skill at all. The payout will be consistent with the "all agents quality has been set at 20" and no negotiation bonus.

I checked only with characters with negotiation 5. Will check with a character with less negotiation as soon as I am home.


Edit 3:
confirmed, Negotiation don't affect RP point production.



I also did test with negotiation. I trained it from 3 to 4 and it didn't have any change in RP point production. On TQ it has a small change.

If it doesn't effect RP agents, I would assume it doesn't effect mission agents either. Are they planning on changing skill or removing it?

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.05.13 04:50:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Oh. And can we please have a fourth division that gives out faction encounter missions and have security give out only pirate encounter missions? Please? :-D

^This!! Very Happy

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.05.13 05:46:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
All agents will pay out like +20. If you have a specific agent that's broken, please tell me which one so we can verify.


LP will pay out as +20 as well, and quality is not dynamic?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.13 06:41:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 13/05/2011 06:45:46
Originally by: King Rothgar
I can confirm 2 new LP related skills have been added. One is security and available at navy-ish LP stores, the other is mining (I assume at industry LP stores but I didn't check). The price for security connections is 15k LP and 10M isk. It has a 2x training modifier (the old LP skills had 1x) and gives a +10% increase per level (old was 5% but with two skills). As such, this should result in absolutely no change in pay for a Q20 agent. It does however raise the LP rewards for agents that were not Q20 originally it appears.


Tow 5% skills at maximum 1.25*1.25=1.5625
One 10% skill at maximum 1.50

Not much but not "no change". Most of the time more than compensated by the quality increase.

That is, if the other things affecting agent effective quality still work (i.e. if your standing with teh agent has a positive effect when it is high enough).

Originally by: Periapt


I also did test with negotiation. I trained it from 3 to 4 and it didn't have any change in RP point production. On TQ it has a small change.

If it doesn't effect RP agents, I would assume it doesn't effect mission agents either. Are they planning on changing skill or removing it?


I would not call a "small effect" a difference of more than 20 RP for 3 agents and 10 for 2. It is a 9-10% reduction in datacore production.


HiyaVata
Gallente
The KUM
Posted - 2011.05.13 08:04:00 - [59]
 

I'm not sure if I'm repeating someone here, read the first 10+ replies and fell asleep :P I see most of you are talking about R&D's (makes sense), but here's my beef with this whole change... I do missions in Ansen sys. fribrodi const. The agents there are all lvl4 Q20 - Personel (4 of them). Now, I have a "pvp-pve" character, not a "driving Miss Daisy - corp bus boy" char. That's 1. 2, all the courier missions that I do get (which I decline all the time) have been nerfed in the previous patch, in the way that 6 dolls are now a weird 6K cargo !??! How big are these dolls!??!?! and 9 out of 10 times I have to haul these items from low sec to high sec. If you haven't recently looked at the star map, I would like to point out a certain system called Hagilur! Try jumping in and out of that system in a hauler any time of the day.... Now do you understand why all this nerfing sugz!? And I'm sure there are many more areas in eve with this same problem....

Noxyra
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:11:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Noxyra on 13/05/2011 11:14:11
Originally by: Venkul Mul

Tow 5% skills at maximum 1.25*1.25=1.5625
One 10% skill at maximum 1.50



Afaik, the two current connection skills work additively not multiplicative on the base amount.

So, each skill to 5 adds 25% more from the base, with two of them adding exactly 50% more.
So, thus, there is no change in LP pay from the modification of the skill.

And yeah, being a rank 2 skill, you can take all the sp from those two skills and put it into this one, but you'll still lose out on the money/lp you paid for the other skills :)


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