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Coconut Joe
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.28 16:23:00 - [1]
 

Hello Everyone,
about a year ago I interviewed 25 members of this forum about how they decide whether a character asking for investment is trustworthy and/or capable enough to pay back any money lent to them. I summarized their responses and used the information in my masters dissertation I was writing at the time.

If you're a relative newbie to the forums, or you're wondering if there's anything else you can do to prevent yourself from falling for scams, I believe this information will be very useful to you.

Please view it :::here:::

Thanks to all the people who allowed me to interview them :)

P.S. It's impossible for this information to allow you to be 100% successful in investing, sorry :p

Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
Posted - 2011.04.28 16:27:00 - [2]
 

   Looks promising. Settling down with a drink for a read.

Cassandra Peterson
Posted - 2011.04.28 16:41:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Cassandra Peterson on 28/04/2011 16:41:20
Originally by: "Coconut Joe"
Should I invest?


No. Although I've never scammed (and don't plan to), even I don't claim to offer a 100% safe investment vehicle (potential for burnout, etc.)

Ninjaedit: And I'm too lazy to switch to my main, and as this is my trade/troll alt I think I'll neglect to mention who that is (though this post itself is not a troll).

Marshiro
Posted - 2011.04.28 18:17:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
A trustworthy character's interaction suggest a calm, logical personality. This can take the form of clear, positive, rational communication.

I laughed a little when I saw this, because of irony......

Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.04.28 19:31:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Bad Bobby on 28/04/2011 19:43:20
Originally by: Coconut Joe
about a year ago I interviewed 25 members of this forum

I recognise the name, were you the chap that had a teamspeak discussion with me, AC155 and Companion Qube about this?

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.04.28 19:47:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Bad Bobby
Edited by: Bad Bobby on 28/04/2011 19:43:20
Originally by: Coconut Joe
about a year ago I interviewed 25 members of this forum

I recognise the name, were you the chap that had a teamspeak discussion with me, AC155 and Companion Qube about this?


Was that the time I logged in and we talked about how I'd gotten drunk and hurt somebody back in my college days, then Riethe proceeded to advise on the forums that I like to put people in the hospital IRL?

Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.04.28 19:51:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Edited by: Bad Bobby on 28/04/2011 19:43:20
Originally by: Coconut Joe
about a year ago I interviewed 25 members of this forum

I recognise the name, were you the chap that had a teamspeak discussion with me, AC155 and Companion Qube about this?


Was that the time I logged in and we talked about how I'd gotten drunk and hurt somebody back in my college days, then Riethe proceeded to advise on the forums that I like to put people in the hospital IRL?

Quite possibly. It makes sense that I would have called him in on that conversation.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.04.28 19:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Coconut Joe

P.S. It's impossible for this information to allow you to be 100% successful in investing, sorry :p



Because it is over 90 % luck that keeps you from not being scammed with MD investments , the other 10% is your brain trying to make you think that with any logic you can figure out if someone is or is not going to scam you.


RAW23
Posted - 2011.04.28 19:58:00 - [9]
 

Are the answers in terms of older/younger characters the answers someone gave or your summary of a range of answers according to the age of characters?

Mar Lee
An Army of None
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:23:00 - [10]
 

I'm sorry, but why did you call this a guide to avoiding scams? Because what I'm reading seems to be "How To Look Trustworthy So People Will Give You Money", which seems to be targeted at a, um, somewhat different demographic.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2011.04.28 22:01:00 - [11]
 

I commend your efforts but I have to ask.... Why is this - Copyright 2011 University Of Liverpool?

I might suggest you have others proof read this before turning it in. Errors and incorrect word usage are peppered across the entire paper.


Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.04.29 00:20:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/04/2011 00:21:24



Even easier, not in a multi-page document

Is it over 5 billion in total value? Don't invest.
Does the business plan not make sense? Don't invest.
Does the business refuse free audits? Don't invest.

edit to add:

Quote:
I summarized their responses and used the information in my masters dissertation I was writing at the time.


WTF.

cosmoray
Perkone
Posted - 2011.04.29 02:24:00 - [13]
 

You talked to me (an ALT), about this a long time ago.

A lot of this document is how you could successfully rep grind.
Most of your points were also in my document about how to scam.
Being logical, well thought out, articulate are the starting points to all successful social engineering efforts.

There is a current bet between Reithe, myself, and 2 others about which of the 3 current known scams running in MD will break first (total is over 65B ISK in public funds). I know who is running 2 of them.

Syds Sinclair
Posted - 2011.04.29 04:08:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: cosmoray
You talked to me (an ALT), about this a long time ago.

A lot of this document is how you could successfully rep grind.
Most of your points were also in my document about how to scam.
Being logical, well thought out, articulate are the starting points to all successful social engineering efforts.

There is a current bet between Reithe, myself, and 2 others about which of the 3 current known scams running in MD will break first (total is over 65B ISK in public funds). I know who is running 2 of them.


../golfclap. Aren't you late for the "ME TOO ME TOO!" convention?

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2011.04.29 05:17:00 - [15]
 

In a game where you can't confront the person physically, there is no 100% guarantee you won't be scammed. As such, I think the OP is writing this on ways to think about individuals, so you can at least minimize the chances of investing in a scam as much as you can. Throwing around your isk willy nilly without doing research will obviously lead to theft at one point. With analyzing the individuals and some careful reading, and with some luck, you could spend your entire career and never get scammed.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.04.29 05:50:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: FeralShadow
With analyzing the individuals and some careful reading, and with some luck, you could spend your entire career and never get scammed.


This is wishful thinking.

You WILL get scammed.

Knowing that, you are now free to setup a money management plan, where scamming is just classed as one of the operation costs you'll have to sustain.

Coconut Joe
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.29 06:15:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Bad Bobby
I recognise the name, were you the chap that had a teamspeak discussion with me, AC155 and Companion Qube about this?

I think so :)

Originally by: RAW23
Are the answers in terms of older/younger characters the answers someone gave or your summary of a range of answers according to the age of characters?

It's a summary of interviewees answers regarding how they evaluate characters of different ages.

Originally by: flakeys
Because it is over 90 % luck that keeps you from not being scammed with MD investments , the other 10% is your brain trying to make you think that with any logic you can figure out if someone is or is not going to scam you.

Not necessarily ;) The reason that I decided to study the Eve Online Market Discussion Forum was because that despite all the odds, some people were making money at least. The techniques people used were distilled into a trust and reputation model, and simulated along with another trust model. EOMC did significantly better. This would indicate that there's more to what you guys are doing than just luck, there's definatly a fair bit of skill going on somewhere! Very Happy

Originally by: SencneS
I commend your efforts but I have to ask.... Why is this - Copyright 2011 University Of Liverpool? I might suggest you have others proof read this before turning it in. Errors and incorrect word usage are peppered across the entire paper.

It's already been turned in, and marked, the dissertation was awarded distinction in case you're wondering. This summary of people's answers was just the first of three stages involved in refining people's answers down to a trust and reputation model. Consequently it was put in the appendix of the dissertation, and as it did not contribute to my final awarded mark, it was only proof read once, sorry Razz. As for the copyright, the University maintains copyright on all student works.

Originally by: FeralShadow
In a game where you can't confront the person physically, there is no 100% guarantee you won't be scammed. As such, I think the OP is writing this on ways to think about individuals, so you can at least minimize the chances of investing in a scam as much as you can. Throwing around your isk willy nilly without doing research will obviously lead to theft at one point. With analyzing the individuals and some careful reading, and with some luck, you could spend your entire career and never get scammed.

That's how I see it as well Very Happy

Marshiro
Posted - 2011.04.29 07:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Mar Lee
I'm sorry, but why did you call this a guide to avoiding scams? Because what I'm reading seems to be "How To Look Trustworthy So People Will Give You Money", which seems to be targeted at a, um, somewhat different demographic.

No, this is a guide to make n00bs think they have a clue on how to avoid scams and therefore buy into one and lose all their isk.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.04.29 11:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Coconut Joe


Originally by: flakeys
Because it is over 90 % luck that keeps you from not being scammed with MD investments , the other 10% is your brain trying to make you think that with any logic you can figure out if someone is or is not going to scam you.

Not necessarily ;) The reason that I decided to study the Eve Online Market Discussion Forum was because that despite all the odds, some people were making money at least. The techniques people used were distilled into a trust and reputation model, and simulated along with another trust model. EOMC did significantly better. This would indicate that there's more to what you guys are doing than just luck, there's definatly a fair bit of skill going on somewhere!


If you say so mate , what the hell do i know about investing.

On a sidenote could we get ALL names please of the people who helped.So far we only see 2 names and i am curious if we also will see riethe , curzon dax and other known investors as the previous 2 on that list.

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2011.04.29 18:33:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 29/04/2011 18:42:06
Is this an exact digital representation of what you turned in for your masters requirements? Or did you have a more "academically formal" paper that you turned in and what we are seeing is a dumbed down version for the Eve community?

Edit: Ok so this is just the summary of answers and not the actual paper you turned in?

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.04.29 19:37:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: flakeys on 29/04/2011 20:26:16
Inbox mail:


Hello there, about a year or so ago I interviewed you for part of my research for my masters dissertation.

The end result of the research wasn't Eve related per say, but I've summarised everyone's responses to the interview, and posted it on the forum. If you'd like to read the document and post feedback that'd be really nice.

Thanks :)

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1503515




Hot damn i was interviewed?I must have altzheimer.

edit: Seen the interview i did , at a first glimpse same blabla as i am saying in this thread but allways fun to see how you respoinded a year ago, forgot this interview totally on a sidenote wish i could do this to my marriage ...

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.04.30 00:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: flakeys


edit: Seen the interview i did , at a first glimpse same blabla as i am saying in this thread but allways fun to see how you respoinded a year ago, forgot this interview totally on a sidenote wish i could do this to my marriage ...


You can, but there are significant costs associated :(

Leedha Lemour
Minmatar
Staner Industries
Posted - 2011.05.01 09:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: cosmoray


There is a current bet between Reithe, myself, and 2 others about which of the 3 current known scams running in MD will break first (total is over 65B ISK in public funds). I know who is running 2 of them.


This implies you think some offers are legit not scams.

You fluffy optimist. Very Happy

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.02 00:25:00 - [24]
 

"The Definitive Guide To Avoiding Scams"

Demand 100% collateral.

There, thats your guide.

Coconut Joe
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.02 06:22:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
"The Definitive Guide To Avoiding Scams"

Demand 100% collateral.

There, thats your guide.


Could be a little bit better to be honest. Razz

As mentioned in my guide: "There is no way of knowing that a 3rd party collateral holder is cooperating with the character making the offering, and who is also a scammer."

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.05.03 13:11:00 - [26]
 

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "Scamming....how I conditioned my fellow capsuleers for epic scammage!"

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2011.05.03 13:46:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
"The Definitive Guide To Avoiding Scams"

Demand 100% collateral.

There, thats your guide.


And a poor guide at that.. 100% collateral doesn't mean you'll get 100% of your investment on the sale of collateral.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.13 18:49:00 - [28]
 

wrong

Its the best guide.

If you didnt properly appraise the collateral then you screwed up not the guide.

If the market values change in an unforeseeable manner thats a 0 sum game issue, you could gain as well as loose.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.05.13 20:09:00 - [29]
 

Given the number of good people gone wrong (rl changes - game biterness arrising in adition to just getting a wild hair up their bottom) in addition to the bad people gone wrong makes me highly doubtful if you'd get returns close to a risk adjusted return and even getting your principal back seems pretty iffy to me.

If you have a RL sense of a person , (obviously if they are a friend, or work in the same industry as you and exchange rl emails and names ..) your risk is far greater.

But, there are other "streams of value" besides the isk gain motivation: a role play or pleasure motivation.

Mentoring newer players that you invest in, feeling like a venture capitalist or a market analystn are enjoyable things for many people and anything enjoyable in a game has real value (you win if you're having fun)

Hallingen
Caldari
SWARTA
Posted - 2011.05.14 12:04:00 - [30]
 

Assuming that the fact that some investors have avoided being scammed means they are savvy investors is a fallacy.

Have you corrected for base rate of being scammed and estimated number of investors? No because those numbers are not known. Thus it is impossible to say the persistently "successful" investors are anything other than a statistical fluke.

Survivorship bias Wink



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