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blankseplocked [Proposal] Add a 'reserve' function to the contracts system
 
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 14:54:00 - [1]
 

As the title suggests, this would, in my opinion, add an extra incentive to use the 'auction' contracts function. Got a triple T2 trimarked Bhaalgorn which you know is worth quite a lot, but unsure as to whether enough people will bid on it to meet the minimum cost?

Set a reserve.

I'm sure this has been suggested before but let's go for it in the spirit of the recent contracts changes.


All say 'aye'... Very Happy

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 14:55:00 - [2]
 

Supporting this for great justice

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.04.27 16:03:00 - [3]
 

What's the point of this? Just use the start price, surely?

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 16:26:00 - [4]
 

The point is is that it adds an extra dimension, and, perhaps excitment to the otherwise stolid contracts system. I mean, sure, you can just start the auction off from the 'reserve' price - but where's the fun in that? Smile

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.27 16:26:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Danika Princip
What's the point of this? Just use the start price, surely?


It's actually an appeal to human nature. A low start price gets people bidding. Once people start bidding, more people will, normally, bid. On the other hand, a starting price at or close to what the object is actually worth will discourage most potential bidders who view auctions as a way to get goods for less than retail.

The reserve protects the seller while letting them take advantage of this little psychological idiosyncrasy of the human condition.


Supported.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 16:29:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Danika Princip
What's the point of this? Just use the start price, surely?


It's actually an appeal to human nature. A low start price gets people bidding. Once people start bidding, more people will, normally, bid. On the other hand, a starting price at or close to what the object is actually worth will discourage most potential bidders who view auctions as a way to get goods for less than retail.

The reserve protects the seller while letting them take advantage of this little psychological idiosyncrasy of the human condition.


Supported.



Thank you for succintly outlining my thoughts and for your support :)

Goose99
Posted - 2011.04.27 17:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Danika Princip
What's the point of this? Just use the start price, surely?


It's actually an appeal to human nature. A low start price gets people bidding. Once people start bidding, more people will, normally, bid. On the other hand, a starting price at or close to what the object is actually worth will discourage most potential bidders who view auctions as a way to get goods for less than retail.

The reserve protects the seller while letting them take advantage of this little psychological idiosyncrasy of the human condition.


Supported.



Thank you for succintly outlining my thoughts and for your support :)


Not supported. It just amounts to wasting buyers' time and attention, tying up their isk, because you're greedy. Want a fast sell? Set a low price. The contract system doesn't need additional exploitable complications for the sole purpose of stroking fat wallets of the greedy at the expense of everyone else.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:16:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Not supported. It just amounts to wasting buyers' time and attention, tying up their isk, because you're greedy. Want a fast sell? Set a low price. The contract system doesn't need additional exploitable complications for the sole purpose of stroking fat wallets of the greedy at the expense of everyone else.


How does this have anything to do with greed? All that is being proposed here is to mirror the methods used by real-life auction websites, and the attendent excitement and anticipation that having a closely run auction provides.

Nothing has been mentioned about a fast sell; furthermore, how is this even exploitable? Fine, as an earlier poster said, you can set the reserve price now as the minimum bid. How is that exploitable or even at the expense of anyone else.

Please, be more specific in your thoughts, rather quite general.

nugget906
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:27:00 - [9]
 

Use minimal bid. This is basically an attempt into deceiving bidders into locking their time and money into a bid, thinking the price is lower than what you are actually willing to sell for. Eve does not need a "feature" designed purely to benefit one party by screwing another out of their time and money. The contract system should be less deceptive, not more.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: nugget906
Use minimal bid. This is basically an attempt into deceiving bidders into locking their time and money into a bid, thinking the price is lower than what you are actually willing to sell for. Eve does not need a "feature" designed purely to benefit one party by screwing another out of their time and money. The contract system should be less deceptive, not more.



How is a reserve system screwing people out of their money? If their bids don't meet the reserve, their money is refunded after the auction...just as it does now.

Common Origin
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:31:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: Goose99
Not supported. It just amounts to wasting buyers' time and attention, tying up their isk, because you're greedy. Want a fast sell? Set a low price. The contract system doesn't need additional exploitable complications for the sole purpose of stroking fat wallets of the greedy at the expense of everyone else.


How does this have anything to do with greed? All that is being proposed here is to mirror the methods used by real-life auction websites, and the attendent excitement and anticipation that having a closely run auction provides.

Nothing has been mentioned about a fast sell; furthermore, how is this even exploitable? Fine, as an earlier poster said, you can set the reserve price now as the minimum bid. How is that exploitable or even at the expense of anyone else.

Please, be more specific in your thoughts, rather quite general.


See below:

Originally by: nugget906
Use minimal bid. This is basically an attempt into deceiving bidders into locking their time and money into a bid, thinking the price is lower than what you are actually willing to sell for. Eve does not need a "feature" designed purely to benefit one party by screwing another out of their time and money. The contract system should be less deceptive, not more.


You want deception with regard to the price at which you are willing to sell, for more profits for you, at the expense of everyone else, to be built into the auction system. Use starter bid price.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:34:00 - [12]
 

It's hardly deception if it says in big red letters 'RESERVE NOT MET'...it should surely be as plain as day.

Guy LeDuche
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:34:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: nugget906
Use minimal bid. This is basically an attempt into deceiving bidders into locking their time and money into a bid, thinking the price is lower than what you are actually willing to sell for. Eve does not need a "feature" designed purely to benefit one party by screwing another out of their time and money. The contract system should be less deceptive, not more.



How is a reserve system screwing people out of their money? If their bids don't meet the reserve, their money is refunded after the auction...just as it does now.


How about I make a bid at below your starter price? You don't get to lock in other people isk and waste their time, if you're not actually willing to sell at the price you advertise. Greed at its worst.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Guy LeDuche
How about I make a bid at below your starter price? You don't get to lock in other people isk and waste their time, if you're not actually willing to sell at the price you advertise. Greed at its worst.



Wow...a lot of greed condemnation in this thread. Suprising for EVE but then again, a lot of faceless alts have posted here.

Surely, an auction doesn't have an advertised, fixed price that it will sell at. It therefore floats depending on how many people bid. With my proposal there is not a lot of real change, except that the bidding will start at whatever price the seller sets and not finish until the bidding at least matches (as opposed to just starting from a minimal sell price, as is the case now).

Goose99
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:40:00 - [15]
 

Eve auctions take your money up front on bid, with the understanding that you will get the item unless a higher bid appears. This is money that you cannot use. You don't get to set a fake starter price, when all you want to do is lock in other people's money in order to make your auction look more lively.

sabre906
Posted - 2011.04.27 18:46:00 - [16]
 

For reasons already mentioned, CCP won't implement this. One of their goals in creating the new contract system is to cut out unnecessary exploitable parts. Removal of loan contracts is one such move. There is already start bid price. If it doesn't sell, it means it cost too much, and price should be lowered until it does sell. Blame the market.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.04.28 17:07:00 - [17]
 

I don't think it is necessary, but here are some thoughts anyway, both for and against:

Having a reserve may be considered comparable to margin trading in the scams it may enable.

Isn't the bidding increment based on the start price? Having a low start price, but high reserve would allow smaller increases.

Should the ISK only be taken from the bidder if it exceeds the reserve? This seems a bit clunky and would push towards the reserve amount being visible on the contract.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.28 18:26:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Glyken Touchon
I don't think it is necessary, but here are some thoughts anyway, both for and against:

Having a reserve may be considered comparable to margin trading in the scams it may enable.

Isn't the bidding increment based on the start price? Having a low start price, but high reserve would allow smaller increases.

Should the ISK only be taken from the bidder if it exceeds the reserve? This seems a bit clunky and would push towards the reserve amount being visible on the contract.


Thank you for your reasoned and thoughtful insights, even if you didn't support the proposal. I can only wish that everyone who posted here was as thoughtful as you Smile

Goose99
Posted - 2011.04.28 20:43:00 - [19]
 

There is nothing thoughtful about economic pvp. Eve does not need some convoluted scheme added to a contract system that works just fine as is, for the benefit of seller at the expense of buyer, literally.

You, the seller, want to get more isk, by taking advantage of this scheme. If your idea works, someone will have to pay more isk. Your gain is their loss.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:27:00 - [20]
 

Sounds to me that all you want to do is to protect the buyer at the seller's expense.


 

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