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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.24 12:23:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/06/2011 05:19:54
Basicly right now an older player knows things like.

If I orbit to close too fast my weapons can't track.

If I fly right at someone I lower the transversal velocity to 0, and thus it's like I'm not moving as far as hit% goes.

However ask any player how combat works in eve and they will tell you, it's just approach and fire. orbit, shoot, forget. They will quote that there is no skill in eve combat it's just weapon range = hit change.


No that I have outline what I see as a problem, here is some solutions.

1. Turret tracking guide in game as part of tutorial. Just stick this.http://www.eveonline.com/guide/en/g26.asp

edit:wtf it's gone!?!?! shame on you ccp.

anyways, only older players will know what the link should go too. it's the interactive turret tracking guide.


2.Transversal velocity UI
it's quite simple really. When you target a ship, there is a icon showing which ship is currently targeted. Basically, this icon should turn green when the target is within tracking speed of your fastest guns, and red when Transversal is too high to hit. with degrees of yellow in between.

This, in combo with the tactical overview, which shows weapon range, would be a great visual feedback for new players to understand eve combat is not so simple.

Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.24 12:26:00 - [2]
 

Or turn the option in the overview for this on?

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.24 12:44:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 24/04/2011 12:45:01
Originally by: Victor Dathar
Or turn the option in the overview for this on?


yes becuase excel sheets in space is much better than a working UI with visual feedback.

in fact, lets take what you say a step further why is our shields, armor, and hull shows with graphics? that should just be numbers on the bottom. same function right?

just put everything in a list.

not to mention why do i need to see the transversal for EVERY SHIP AND OBJECT IN SPACE.

I don't need any of that information, omg clutter. just one ship, that
s all I need to worry about.


GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.24 13:02:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud on 24/04/2011 13:02:18
i need the transversal of all the ships in an enemy gang so i know im kiting all their damage tyvm

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.24 13:08:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud on 24/04/2011 13:02:18
i need the transversal of all the ships in an enemy gang so i know im kiting all their damage tyvm


yes becuase adding an option for new players to help them understand how it works when they only have to deal with one target at a time means you won't be able to use the overview once you need more complex expanded information.

and my idea totally threatens your current gameplay. Rolling Eyes

less excel sheets, more UI.

but nothing wrong with having excell sheets for when that's what you need.

look at Wow, people make custom UIs so that wow looks like eve. with spreet sheets and infor all over the place.

However most people don't' want or NEED that level of clutter.

you have to have a simple system to start, with the option of more complex systems as you get more advanced, and need more information.

drowning people in information is not the way to keep new players around.


I hate hearing people say that eve combat is all click and forget.

Spazz21
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2011.04.24 14:06:00 - [6]
 

I miss that guide so much. I emailed them about one time and said they have no plans on putting it back up. Idk why as it was awesome.

As for this suggestion, I like it. I'm hoping when they redo the UI, they have like a little window of brief info at the target it's self. Like Transversal, Size, Type, etc. And I think the past few trailers had something similar to a little info box at the target. So something like that would be cool.

And I agree, if CCP is going to focus on making the game prettier, then they should change a few things so people will actually look at it, instead of focusing on a big box of text the whole time.

Though I'd personally would like a gradient bar, but all the same, lol.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.04.24 14:53:00 - [7]
 

Support for the general idea of utilising such basic and clear methods to help move EVE away from excell in space. Keep the excell for people who have grown attached to it, but in many ways it's just an inconvenient clutter of information, instead of a helpful tool that allows you to take in important tactical information at a glance.

Things like vicible velocity vectors would help too, engine trails can provide this info too to some extent, so I could watch what is actually happening on the view screen instead of watching for numbers in the overview table. Showing that raw info is pointless for most users in many cases. They just need to know when the conditions are right so that their guns have a good chance to hit and when they don't hit so often/well or at all.

Axon Atom
Posted - 2011.04.24 21:43:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Support for the general idea of utilising such basic and clear methods to help move EVE away from excell in space. Keep the excell for people who have grown attached to it, but in many ways it's just an inconvenient clutter of information, instead of a helpful tool that allows you to take in important tactical information at a glance.

Things like vicible velocity vectors would help too, engine trails can provide this info too to some extent, so I could watch what is actually happening on the view screen instead of watching for numbers in the overview table. Showing that raw info is pointless for most users in many cases. They just need to know when the conditions are right so that their guns have a good chance to hit and when they don't hit so often/well or at all.


exactly. It's not about taking functionality. Why do people always get so defensive at the idea of new players havign an easier time? even if it won't effect thier gameplay?

also I found the old guide on eve files.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf

this needs to be put in the game.

Spazz21
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2011.04.25 01:13:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Axon Atom
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Support for the general idea of utilising such basic and clear methods to help move EVE away from excell in space. Keep the excell for people who have grown attached to it, but in many ways it's just an inconvenient clutter of information, instead of a helpful tool that allows you to take in important tactical information at a glance.

Things like vicible velocity vectors would help too, engine trails can provide this info too to some extent, so I could watch what is actually happening on the view screen instead of watching for numbers in the overview table. Showing that raw info is pointless for most users in many cases. They just need to know when the conditions are right so that their guns have a good chance to hit and when they don't hit so often/well or at all.


exactly. It's not about taking functionality. Why do people always get so defensive at the idea of new players havign an easier time? even if it won't effect thier gameplay?

also I found the old guide on eve files.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf

this needs to be put in the game.


I love You...

Seamus Donohue
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.25 10:41:00 - [10]
 

Supported.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:02:00 - [11]
 

This is good. The previous overview setting was a bad place to put transversal information as you really don't need to know the transversal for every single thing on your overview.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.04.25 18:35:00 - [12]
 

Transversal isn't even the important one. Confused

Shaera Taam
Minmatar
Minmatar Death Squad
Broken Chains Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:02:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Shaera Taam on 29/04/2011 18:20:13
angular rate in rad/sec is!

edit: oops, forgot to give the good ol' thumbs up!
Wink

Mica Swanhaven
Posted - 2011.04.25 22:11:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Shaera Taam
angular rate in rad/sec is!


Same thing! The UI would be color feedback so it wouldn't matter what maths it wasdoing!

so press edit, and add your support!

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.06.18 05:19:00 - [15]
 

bumping good idea

go go carbon UI

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2011.06.18 05:23:00 - [16]
 

I support this ideal fully.

Mocam
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:05:00 - [17]
 

Very nice idea to help out and a tutorial on that portion of the UI would help them understand weapons a lot better.

Leave the current overview functionality, put an option in to disable this effect but set the option "on" to help new players out. Older ones can turn it off (and mutter about it - no big).

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.18 18:57:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Mars Theran on 18/06/2011 19:12:57
Edited by: Mars Theran on 18/06/2011 18:57:31

Nice idea. I think I mentioned something similar in the CSM threads on UI improvement. Anything like this to help people who deal with visual queues better than spreadsheets of raw data would be nice. Bring us one step closer to flying our ships.

edit: support.

Also, I think the icons should extend to all targets, rather than the current one, and could also include signature radius, and other factors, purely optional. These could be detailed using currently existing tracking icons and the like, while displaying the appropriate information beside the icon. Out of range targets should grey out the appropriate icons.

Come to think of it, that just sounds like more clutter, even if it's optional clutter, as the overview is. Tactical HUDs would be nice, so we could switch between one of a few options we premade at will. Say a HUD for Tackling, another for Sniping, EWAR, etc... Just a button click and the overview swaps out. I'd love that.

There has to be a better way of doing what you suggested, but it's not really occuring to me right now. Too much data to account for, which is why we're all using excel spreadsheets in space.

I'm almost tempted to say move the icons to the overview and put the color shift there, which would significantly reduce overview space requirements. Switch on and off as desired. Even that though, tends to simplify things too much. I'd still like to deal with numbers for tracking and the like, I just have an issue with clutter and ease of use.

I also don't think it should be too easy to do this, with players just going for the green. That would also lead to many other factors being ignored, which happens sometimes anyway.

Something that should really be fixed as well, is the default overview, which really has 0 functionality, aside from basic navigation.

Tajidan
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.18 19:44:00 - [19]
 

hell, the whole vector trajectories should be an option to be toggled in the tacital overlay. i have high hopes that with the carbon UI the tactical overlay gets the love it deserves to be THE most excellent tool in fights.

Diamaht Nevain
Gallente
Avatar Union

Posted - 2011.06.18 21:22:00 - [20]
 

Supported


 

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