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Harm Pit
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:06:00 - [1]
 

Interview with ccp on massively.com

Q:A lot of players have voiced disdain for Incarna as they think it's detracting from EVE as a space ship game. What would you say to them?

A:People are afraid of the unknown -- that's really what it is. We saw a lot of aversion to the new character creator as well, until people saw it. Then they said, "Oh yeah, so that's what they're building. That makes sense. Now I like it." People are afraid, I think, of change



You might not be able to hear my because I dove under the table in terror when i heard the Incarna word. butNo. We are not afraid of change.

PLEASE CHANGE THIS GAME

Please change the bugs, please change the lag, please change the big list of things the csm have presented you with a list of.

And most of all please change your patronising attitude.

Not to bothered about the wombling in station thing, you can leave that out if you want.

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:14:00 - [2]
 

The thing is, CCP have teams assigned to this stuff already so what do you want?

Do you want all other features postponed until lag is killed?

I mean, there are noticable changes in the performance of TQ lately with more upgrades promised. The problem is if you fix 1000 vs 1000 fights, you end up with 2000 vs 2000. Not to mention alliance fleets intentionally trying to crash nodes when they're losing.

Whining about new and other features is unproductive.

Eve is dying
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:15:00 - [3]
 

Adding to what EVE is today? You mean the long list of unpolished concept beta demos and unfulfiled contents and potentials? Great! Walking in station! Another vapourware proudly presented by CCP! etc etc

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:16:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Eve is dying
Adding to what EVE is today? You mean the long list of unpolished concept beta demos and unfulfiled contents and potentials? Great! Walking in station! Another vapourware proudly presented by CCP! etc etc


U mad?

Harm Pit
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:22:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: voiddragon
The thing is, CCP have teams assigned to this stuff already so what do you want?

Do you want all other features postponed until lag is killed?

I mean, there are noticable changes in the performance of TQ lately with more upgrades promised. The problem is if you fix 1000 vs 1000 fights, you end up with 2000 vs 2000. Not to mention alliance fleets intentionally trying to crash nodes when they're losing.

Whining about new and other features is unproductive.


NAh the point is CCP dismissing thousands of valid criticisms with the "ZEY ARE SCARED OF THE CHANGE YES" when in reality they are actauly CRYING OUT for change in the game, desperate to get the massive list of changes put forward by the CSM implemented.

Are they deluded enough in their ivory iceland tower to believe that is why people are complaining or was it just a pat response to the media in order to brush off the situation.

Either way, very patronising. +1 for trolling -1 for sensitivity

PLEASE CHANGE THE GAME. START WITH THE BIG BACKLOG FROM 4 YEARS AGO ONWARDS THAT THE CSM HAVE GIVEN YOU

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:27:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: voiddragon on 23/04/2011 01:27:55
Originally by: Harm Pit
Originally by: voiddragon
The thing is, CCP have teams assigned to this stuff already so what do you want?

Do you want all other features postponed until lag is killed?

I mean, there are noticable changes in the performance of TQ lately with more upgrades promised. The problem is if you fix 1000 vs 1000 fights, you end up with 2000 vs 2000. Not to mention alliance fleets intentionally trying to crash nodes when they're losing.

Whining about new and other features is unproductive.


NAh the point is CCP dismissing thousands of valid criticisms with the "ZEY ARE SCARED OF THE CHANGE YES" when in reality they are actauly CRYING OUT for change in the game, desperate to get the massive list of changes put forward by the CSM implemented.

Are they deluded enough in their ivory iceland tower to believe that is why people are complaining or was it just a pat response to the media in order to brush off the situation.

Either way, very patronising. +1 for trolling -1 for sensitivity

PLEASE CHANGE THE GAME. START WITH THE BIG BACKLOG FROM 4 YEARS AGO ONWARDS THAT THE CSM HAVE GIVEN YOU


Although I agree that a lot of features presented by the CSM and FID Forum should be more prominent, I don't believe that CCP were being patronising in this interview. People have voiced concerns over it being like second life in space and such and that it's not very eve-y. That is what was being addressed, he was not saying that everyone voicing their opinions for other features to be moved up are scared of change.

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:27:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Harm Pit
PLEASE CHANGE THE GAME. START WITH THE BIG BACKLOG FROM 4 YEARS AGO ONWARDS THAT THE CSM HAVE GIVEN YOU
+10000

John Wesley Hardin
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:29:00 - [8]
 

Just like to add that I really like these new forums, much much better than the old ones, grats CCP, job well done! Worth the wait Confused



...

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:35:00 - [9]
 


Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:49:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Eve is dying
Adding to what EVE is today? You mean the long list of unpolished concept beta demos and unfulfiled contents and potentials? Great! Walking in station! Another vapourware proudly presented by CCP! etc etc


^^

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:50:00 - [11]
 

I can hardly wait to see what in Incarna will encourage me or force me to buy Plex. Profit motives not bad but turning the game into crap to do it seems self defeating.

Harm Pit
Posted - 2011.04.23 01:57:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: John Wesley Hardin
Just like to add that I really like these new forums, much much better than the old ones, grats CCP, job well done! Worth the wait Confused



...


You are obviously SCARED of the new forums!!!

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.04.23 02:04:00 - [13]
 

Change has a habit of kicking loyalists in the teeth. Can't blame them for flaming them.

Rohnda
Posted - 2011.04.23 02:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Harm Pit
Originally by: John Wesley Hardin
Just like to add that I really like these new forums, much much better than the old ones, grats CCP, job well done! Worth the wait Confused



...


You are obviously SCARED of the new forums!!!


Im freaking terrifed of anything new outside of the eve client ccp make :( *looks at varius internet security issues regarding evegate and new forums*

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2011.04.23 04:39:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 23/04/2011 04:43:14
Originally by: voiddragon
The thing is, CCP have teams assigned to this stuff already so what do you want?

Do you want all other features postponed until lag is killed?

I mean, there are noticable changes in the performance of TQ lately with more upgrades promised. The problem is if you fix 1000 vs 1000 fights, you end up with 2000 vs 2000. Not to mention alliance fleets intentionally trying to crash nodes when they're losing.

Whining about new and other features is unproductive.


meaning they are approching it utterly wrong!
a "the one that bring the most = WIN!!" concept is just fail from the start.
set in some parameters for attacking stations/pos's etc. that forces you to have max x players on a attack and on the defence and any one not part off these people simply cant use the system at the desinated time.

make it more tactic and less zerg server crashing.

its not the fixes that attract new commers its the new features mostly.
without a team to develope new stuff eve would have died long ago.

Phobos Kashada
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:36:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Phobos Kashada on 23/04/2011 11:39:55
I'm glad CCP understand the mindset of your average gamer/human. Means they won't back out of their vision just to appease a handful of whiners. And speaking of whiners, what happened to all the moaning about the new forums? ;)

Keep doing what you do CCP.

Oh and...

Originally by: voiddragon

NAh the point is CCP dismissing thousands of valid criticisms...



Fabricated number is fabricated number.

Since we're pulling things out of our behinds here, I'd say it's more like twenty people.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:39:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 23/04/2011 11:45:00
_

How else would you expect a pre-rehearsed PR-oriented semi-fake interview to run its course ?
Twisted Evil

Besides, I personally don't mind having Incarna, I actually am somewhat looking forward to it... no rush to see it though.
But when it comes at the HEAVY expense we've been seeing lately (with very few exceptions), I'm not so thrilled anymore.
Also, I don't like when people break their own promises (see : "Incarna will be completely optional" followed by "the first part of Incarna, CQ, will be MANDATORY").

Originally by: Phobos Kashada
And speaking of whiners, what happened to all the moaning about the new forums? ;)

It temporarily subsided over other points of rage seeing how the old forums are back to stay for a while, but will be reborn with a vengeance if the new forums reopen with almost nothing changed except a few security issues hastily patched up.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:48:00 - [18]
 

Yeah, now is a good time to make the new and bespoke (lulz) forums less ****ty looking, if all they do it patch the security issues then they're dumber than I thought.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.23 12:06:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Also, I don't like when people break their own promises (see : "Incarna will be completely optional" followed by "the first part of Incarna, CQ, will be MANDATORY")..


CCP's policy for Quality Control means making sure it doesn't get released with donkey **** or viruses and waiting patiently for the EVE playerbase to "battletest" the code. Then, taking the easiest 25% of the complaints and fixing them.

If it was purely optional, you'd lose a sizable chunk of your testing resources.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.23 12:22:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
If it was purely optional, you'd lose a sizable chunk of your testing resources.

Which in itself would actually be a GOOD thing, since the relevant data will quickly become swamped by insane repetition levels as the "sample size" of those battletesters increases, and only a rather small number of people testing it will already reveal the majority of flaws AND the importance/obviousness levels.
Increasing the sample size to "all players" instead of just "those interested" (and you bet a lot of people WILL be interested enough to at least try it once, even if most will do it just for a few minutes before they disable it) will only serve to have your complaint pipes swamped with mostly unconstructive drivel, with most of the useful complaints masked by the huge noise-to-signal ratio.
The added "bonus", you get a lot of angry customers thanks to the fact they can't opt out of something which will DOUBTLESSLY be a stinking pile of buggy turd upon its first release.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.04.23 12:27:00 - [21]
 

Well, I mean, can people be blamed for being afraid of new things. They are often buggy and unfinished, they usually stay that way and at best are annoying. Ne lutum stabiliam ibis qui aurum.

Gripen
Posted - 2011.04.23 14:23:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Harm Pit
Q:A lot of players have voiced disdain for Incarna as they think it's detracting from EVE as a space ship game. What would you say to them?

A:People are afraid of the unknown -- that's really what it is. We saw a lot of aversion to the new character creator as well, until people saw it. Then they said, "Oh yeah, so that's what they're building. That makes sense. Now I like it." People are afraid, I think, of change


Actually, those are best news from CCP since :18 month: announcement. At least now we know for sure, that they are aware of fact that original eve playerbase isn't interested much in barbie in space.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.04.23 14:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Harm Pit
A:People are afraid of the unknown -- that's really what it is. We saw a lot of aversion to the new character creator as well, until people saw it. Then they said, "Oh yeah, so that's what they're building. That makes sense. Now I like it." People are afraid, I think, of change[/i]


If you keep repeating the same thing often enough people will start to believe it.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.23 15:40:00 - [24]
 

1: Here is the thing, people ARE afraid of change. Or, more specifically anything that is strange or different. If you haven't learned this simple fact of human nature yet, you will.

2: Fixing their old content is not change. It is improving what you have already become used to and now consider normal. Most of those things you would like fixed was, at one point in time or another, a NEW feature that was hysterically ripped apart on these forums. Just as Incarna is now.

3: In a couple of years time, the main topic on this forum will be snide or outraged posts that CCP is not adding to the Incarna experience fast enough to suit people... that they are spending too much time on less important area's of the game. This is also human nature, and that cycle has been repeated on these forums since Beta.

Quit acting like he was calling you a sissy, or being condescending in some way. He was simply describing a fact of the human condition, and something every company has to over come when they introduce new product lines or features to their products (usually with the help of the advertising industry).

I'm sure many will take this post as a personal attack. It's not, but people are a bit thin skinned around here it seems.

Angst IronShard
Minmatar
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.04.23 15:58:00 - [25]
 

you, guys, are too hurry.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.04.23 16:02:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Harm Pit
Interview with ccp on massively.com

Q:A lot of players have voiced disdain for Incarna as they think it's detracting from EVE as a space ship game. What would you say to them?

A:People are afraid of the unknown -- that's really what it is. [...] People are afraid, I think, of change



Afraid of change?

Well, yes, knowing CCP's history of fail...


I mean, look at the newest "change" .. those awesome forums. What did it bring? A massive security risk for everyone browsing on those shiny new forums.

Or look at the fail when they first introduced PI. Anyone remember the reprocessing disaster?

Or the failure of wiping out the moon-goo monopoly of Dysprosium and Promethium, just by introducing a ten time bigger monopoly of Technetium.

Or look at the 0.0 change in Dominion to reduce blobbing. We have now bigger blobs then ever before - and that is not because we have more players in EVE.

Or or or...

Yes, with CCP's history everyone SHOULD be afraid of change. Because the first thing you think of is "what will they break this time"?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.23 16:20:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 23/04/2011 16:23:17
As I (and anyone who has studied human nature) have stated before, people DO fear change. Sometimes that fear is justified, often it is not, but the fear remains regardless.

Quote:
Or look at the fail when they first introduced PI. Anyone remember the reprocessing disaster?


And yet now it is a thriving industry that is widely used. When improvements are slow in coming, people complain.

Quote:
Or the failure of wiping out the moon-goo monopoly of Dysprosium and Promethium, just by introducing a ten time bigger monopoly of Technetium.


And yet when the concept of moon mining was introduced, people scorned the idea as too boring, too expensive to be practical, no one will ever do it. Now it is considered a core element of the economy and MUST be improved and balanced better, preferably yesterday.

Quote:
Or look at the 0.0 change in Dominion to reduce blobbing. We have now bigger blobs then ever before - and that is not because we have more players in EVE.


And yet when the concept of being able to gain sov, and gain advantages from having sov, was introduced it was widely regarded as completely unworkable. Nobody will do it, which then shifted to everybody will do it because they will be invulnerable to outside attack and sov will never change hands. When the concept of upgrading the income available from a sov system was introduced, the null sec community claimed it still wasn't enough, while the Empire community claimed it was too much income. Now that it has been scaled back a bit, the income from upgraded systems is considered essential, and can't be done without.

It's doesn't matter what it is, if it is new and different, people will resist it. But fear the fiery wrath of the community if you try to take it away once they have had a chance to become familiar with it. The forums will be no exception, Incarna will be no exception.

I think on one level or another everybody recognizes this basic fact of human nature. It's just that nobody likes to admit it. In essence, all this thread is doing is criticizing CCP for telling you the truth.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.04.23 16:47:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Harm Pit
Interview with ccp on massively.com

Q:A lot of players have voiced disdain for Incarna as they think it's detracting from EVE as a space ship game. What would you say to them?

A:People are afraid of the unknown -- that's really what it is. We saw a lot of aversion to the new character creator as well, until people saw it. Then they said, "Oh yeah, so that's what they're building. That makes sense. Now I like it." People are afraid, I think, of change


Yeah, that was a pretty insincere. Especially after promising to work the delayed local implementation for 0.0 with the sizable number of players cheering him on. Zulu is smarter than that.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.23 16:58:00 - [29]
 

I know several people that was turned off from EVE because they were stuck in spaceships all the time. I doubt they are that unique so its probably a very smart idea to add incarna to the game. Who cares if I wont use it? There have been plenty of expansions with content I never bothered with.

EVE still remains the only MMO worth playing and I dont see that changing anytime soon.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.23 17:03:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Harm Pit
Interview with ccp on massively.com

Q:A lot of players have voiced disdain for Incarna as they think it's detracting from EVE as a space ship game. What would you say to them?

A:People are afraid of the unknown -- that's really what it is. We saw a lot of aversion to the new character creator as well, until people saw it. Then they said, "Oh yeah, so that's what they're building. That makes sense. Now I like it." People are afraid, I think, of change


Yeah, that was a pretty insincere. Especially after promising to work the delayed local implementation for 0.0 with the sizable number of players cheering him on. Zulu is smarter than that.


Well, delayed local isn't exactly a new concept any more. People have had a chance to get used to the idea of local being handled differently (WH space). When CCP first announced that there would be no local in WH space, aside from a few (some might say visionary) proponents, the general consensus was that care bears would avoid it like the plague because of that one factor. Now that it has been proven to be viable, the concept of local working differently is widely accepted (though still hotly debated).

The community accepting the reworking, or putting a different spin on, established features is not the same as how they react to completely new aspects of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge your point. I would consider it to be more a case of being overly blunt as opposed to being insincere.


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