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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
Peregrine Nation
Posted - 2011.04.21 23:46:00 - [31]
 

Arg..Write the post and it logged me out while writing...

In reply to Akita

Hmm if they have indeed decided to change this i would immagion/hope they will do it more like how it is atm.You still have to load moving ships and other effects when docking,and you will "see" the area you can walk in,but you wont actually leave your ship.If that is the case people with older/weaker computers shouldent have more problems then they currently have?

Please keep in mind that i dont know one thing about computers or programming, but i would believe that they will eventually,when the majorety of the testing is done, add an extra option to be able to leave your ship.Think like the current ingame character re-costumisation (sp).

I have not tested this my self,but i think we can be rather sure that when its all said and done we wont dock,and be thrown into the Captain quarters.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.22 00:03:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: NightCrawler 85
I have not tested this my self,but i think we can be rather sure that when its all said and done we wont dock,and be thrown into the Captain quarters.

And yet, this is exactly what's been said it would happen during the fanfest presentation about CQ.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.04.22 00:39:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla

EDIT:

Also I keep seeing this posted without reference/linkage:
Quote:
simple fact that ccp said walking ins station will be optional



Quote:
Since CCP does not intend to replicate existing gameplay on stations - that's right, players won't need to physically walk in the station to sell/trade their goods - what do they intend players to do? Not combat. While ...

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/previews/2611-EVE-Online-War-on-the-Impossible-Part-3-Ambulation

Andrev Nox
SOMER Blink
Cognitive Development
Posted - 2011.04.22 00:53:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Andrev Nox on 22/04/2011 01:00:17
Originally by: Akita T

Just one more (at least implied) promise they're (almost) breaking.


More than implied.

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

We won't drag people kicking and screaming into Ambulation, you can just stay in your space ship and still enjoy EVE in your own way...


I guess she forgot to mention "....until you dock" :/

Edit:

Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla

Also I keep seeing this posted without reference/linkage


The above link. And here. And here.

Take special note:
Originally by: CCP kieron
You will not be required to use the in-station environment if you do not wish to. If you chose to never leave your docking interface, that is up to you.


And
Originally by: CCP kieron
Did I say this was optional and you would not be required to use it if you don't want to?


So....Docking is optional, I guess?

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.04.22 01:07:00 - [35]
 

I have a modern computer (all parts less than 2 years of age, cept the case and the GPU which is 3). And I get about 1fps during CC. If CQ has the same terrible performance, then it won't just be those with old tech complaining.

*Note: have not tested CQ, so no idea on its performance.

And Miilla, where the heck did they (CCP) say that Incarna was going to be a payed expansion?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.04.22 01:10:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
And Miilla, where the heck did they (CCP) say that Incarna was going to be a payed expansion?
Nowhere. (S)he's just trolling.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.04.22 01:12:00 - [37]
 

Thanks Tippia, just anted to make sure. Figured as much.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.04.22 01:26:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Thanks Tippia, just anted to make sure. Figured as much.

report him and maybe will get a temporary ban

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.22 01:37:00 - [39]
 

One thing that rarely gets added to this debate is power consumption.

With our power cost doubling (and environmental cost) in the coming 6 months I don't wish to burn
650watt running a graphics card at 200deg just to have the station environment idle in the background.

This might not be in the perception of people who live in a country which is powered almost exclusively by hydro.

This feature MUST be optional.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.22 02:52:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/04/2011 02:57:32
I do think it's a bit early to accuse Incarna to be a resource hog based on an unoptimized alpha version. Of course it's a resource hog now. We will just have to wait and see.

As a very small side note, did you notice the careful wording in the blog that says that "currently" docking puts you directly on the balcony? Could mean nothing, could mean everything.

Edit: Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.

That being said, I"m all for Incarna being optional as long as it doesn't create too many headaches. Coding two different versions of everything that affects the station environment from this point on is a pain in the ass for anyone, but if it's possible then it should be done.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:19:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.


My graphics card is 50% of my power bill.

Currently Eve has nothing to render and I can background clients with no real added load.

Having a real-time rendered scene for no practical purpose is just waste. Just waste. Just waste.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:24:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Ranger 1
Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.


My graphics card is 50% of my power bill.

Currently Eve has nothing to render and I can background clients with no real added load.

Having a real-time rendered scene for no practical purpose is just waste. Just waste. Just waste.



Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.? Laughing

That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:31:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.? Laughing

That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.



I don't run a lot of extra stuff, frigde and off-peak hot water is about it. Graphics card is like boiling water all day long.

Either way..... Having the default idle screen for Eve being a power hungry beast is just crazy rediculous.


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:36:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Ranger 1

Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.? Laughing

That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.



I don't run a lot of extra stuff, frigde and off-peak hot water is about it. Graphics card is like boiling water all day long.

Either way..... Having the default idle screen for Eve being a power hungry beast is just crazy rediculous.




Okay Doc, I'll quit yanking your chain, even though that fridge (unless it's tiny) uses vastly more power than the difference your graphics card would use rendering Incarna instead. However, since I don't really know you situation, I won't press the point.

See, I can be politically correct when I try.

... sometimes...

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:44:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 21:25:57

SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes.
As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the (_expected_) FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.




SOME people should learn to work when they are at work.

On second thought thats a frightening idea, forget I mentioned it.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.22 04:17:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 22/04/2011 04:23:30
Originally by: Ranger 1
even though that fridge (unless it's tiny) uses vastly more power than the difference your graphics card would use rendering Incarna instead.

A pretty sizeable 260-ish liter fridge of A++ energy efficiency (which most of those of today are) can be using as little as 200 kWh/year. The power consumption between low-demand 3D accelerated graphics (like in the case of an EVE client running on minimal graphics detail running with vsynch on in the background) and full power use for your machine can be as high as 200 W, but let's call it 150 W or so. Also, put in an average of 4 hours per day of EVE, and you might be able to get over 200 kWh/year.

Of course, that's the best case scenario for the fridge and one of the worse for EVE, you still get the idea.

While unlikely that it would matter very much under normal usage conditions, it's not quite negligible either.

Originally by: Kuronaga
SOME people should learn to work when they are at work.
On second thought thats a frightening idea, forget I mentioned it.

Well, some people are self-employed or running their own company, and some of them might not want to spend more than the minimum necessary for an "office" machine. Other people may want to check in and change skills or fiddle with market orders during a lunch break on their regular work, or during the few minutes almost anybody takes off every couple of hours or so to clear their head. Some others might walk around with EVE on a flash drive and plug it in at whatever computer is available where they travel. Or some others still might have a borderline decent laptop they use for EVE while on the road, and some of those might be on the road a lot. Or any other number of not quite so obvious "disregard for duty" scenarios which might be quite plausible where you might want to check on EVE (and you could right now) while not exactly at home on your gaming PC... assuming you even have such a machine at all in the first place, and not just using a laptop fulltime (because not everybody can afford both a laptop and a desktop so easily).

Just sayin'...

Noxyra
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.22 05:34:00 - [47]
 

I agree with Akita, and she does bring some very real and true arguments that I, myself, have been in the position of. I sort of liked the idea of CQ when I saw it, but after experiencing it, I can say that I don't hate it, but would rather just have an on/off button for. This, for me is going to be a big change. I like my industrial, research and market alt to be somewhere alt-tabbed down on the shortcut bar and use as little resources as possible while maintaining a very useable and functional UI. If I'll have to use the current CQ interface on an alt that is used only for "Excel Online" I might not use it at all due to the stuff that is totally useless to me and that clutters up my screen.

theocratis
Posted - 2011.04.22 06:21:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Ranger 1

Uh, sure. Shall we assume your parents foot the bill for the lights, refrigerator, washing machine, TV, etc.? Laughing

That's a bit of a stretch, even for you.



I don't run a lot of extra stuff, frigde and off-peak hot water is about it. Graphics card is like boiling water all day long.

Either way..... Having the default idle screen for Eve being a power hungry beast is just crazy rediculous.




I have an Nvidia 285 GTX not the most hungry card but still it was top of the nvidia line at one point. at idle it draws 1.05 volts. on tranquility it draws 1.15 volts. on duality(CQ test server) it draws 1.15 volts. it was a whole one degree hotter in station on duality vs tranquility. 85 vs 84

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:29:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Andrev Nox
Very specific quotes


Those were precisely the types of quotes I was looking for. Thank you. I concede that it couldn't be anymore blatant of a change/lie.

In my meager defense, I've only been playing since 2008 and those promises/lies predate me. Although I'm still sifting through all of those FF2009 videos looking for that Q&A session where the question was asked in order to hear the tap dance that they performed. I remember seeing it, but can't find it on youtube.


Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:49:00 - [50]
 

Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.

While I do believe CCP intended for it to be optional back in 2008... back then it was designed from the ground up to be part of EVE online. Now, EVE Online only exists to feed/test the uninspired mess that is WoD.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:56:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
No.
Quote:
uninspired mess that is WoD.
How so?

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.22 19:13:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 22/04/2011 19:13:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
No.


Yes.

Watch parts of the Character Creator talk from the fanfest, and listen to how the WoD team was mostly responsible for the character creator. If it was meant for EVE, why did the other team make it?

Here's a fun story to consider. Ambulation was supposed to come out with the Trinity expansion with the rest of the grapical updates. Do you know what happened during the development of Trinity?

The White Wolf/CCP merger.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.04.22 19:25:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Yes.
No, it's not, because then Stephanie Meyers would sue the bejesus out of CCP.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:02:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 22/04/2011 21:03:16
Originally by: ceaon


Since CCP does not intend to replicate existing gameplay on stations - that's right, players won't need to physically walk in the station to sell/trade their goods - what do they intend players to do? Not combat. While ...

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/previews/2611-EVE-Online-War-on-the-Impossible-Part-3-Ambulation



Quote:
When CCP looked at their game, they realized an overwhelming percentage of their subscribers were male and many people of both genders just could not relate to a game where people primarily identified with a spaceship, rather than a living being. As they continue to try to grow their game, they felt the need to fix the problem, but also did not want to change what made EVE Online so popular.


and yet, the goal armor for the single most popular mmo on the planet lookes like what you see at the below link . .

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2010/september/tier11_rogue.jpg

Granted I do like the look of the armor they created for EvE, and would honestly play that game when its ready. unfortunatly thats not going to be for a few years yet.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:09:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 22/04/2011 21:09:53
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 22/04/2011 19:13:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Its going to be required because its beta testing the Twilight game.
No.


Yes.

Watch parts of the Character Creator talk from the fanfest, and listen to how the WoD team was mostly responsible for the character creator. If it was meant for EVE, why did the other team make it?

Here's a fun story to consider. Ambulation was supposed to come out with the Trinity expansion with the rest of the grapical updates. Do you know what happened during the development of Trinity?

The White Wolf/CCP merger.



wtf is wrong with you? Carbon is not WoD.

If you really listened you would know the same character creator is being used for Dust as well.


each art team in turn *dust,eve,WoD* then has to make their own art assets for the character creator. But the creator it'self is made for all three games.

how hard is that to understand?

also
Quote:
Ambulation was supposed to come out with trinity



BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok LaughingLaughing for making me laugh, you get a like*

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:13:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/04/2011 02:57:32
I do think it's a bit early to accuse Incarna to be a resource hog based on an unoptimized alpha version. Of course it's a resource hog now. We will just have to wait and see.

As a very small side note, did you notice the careful wording in the blog that says that "currently" docking puts you directly on the balcony? Could mean nothing, could mean everything.

Edit: Doc, seriously, you can't afford the nickels worth of electricity to run your graphics card at a slightly higher level? SERIOUSLY? I'm all for going green, but if you are that energy conscious you probably shouldn't be using a computer for an entertainment device.

That being said, I"m all for Incarna being optional as long as it doesn't create too many headaches. Coding two different versions of everything that affects the station environment from this point on is a pain in the ass for anyone, but if it's possible then it should be done.

Ive been with too many development companies now.

Ive been in closed beta for AO, SWG, EQII and a few others.

Im seeing the exact same bad habits here,

I can look around, and see that they deliberalty striped down the CQ in order for it to function on most machines. they literaly removed textures shaders walls lights and objects because thoes would further impact system performance.

Yes it needs optimisation put in, and that will help. but unfortunatly there in the same boat that all of the other development companies are in, they are basicly sitting there and hopeing that moores law will bail them out...while ignoring the reality that they are also up against other factors (including there own art department) that insists on getting more and more and more and more out of the same engine while they are still developing it.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:18:00 - [57]
 

Based on the power meter I have, my PC and monitors combined use more electricity than anything else in my house apart from the laundry and AC. (yes it uses more electricity than my refigerator and freezer) I would have to have all of my lights running 24 hours a day for them to use more power than my pc and it only runs about 4-6 hours a day.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:26:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
each art team in turn *dust,eve,WoD* then has to make their own art assets for the character creator. But the creator it'self is made for all three games.


Actualy when they were asked about this, they said flat out that there was no way for Carbon based characters to work on the PS3 OR the Xbox 360 and that Dust was still planed to be 360 compatable.

Granted theres also rumors out there that Sony and Microsoft may have released their next gen system benchmarks to some developers on the same day that Nintendo released the WII2 developer set.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:42:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: NightCrawler 85
They have promised over and over again that it will be optional

And that's all people are asking for : confirmation they WILL do it like that.
Because in the fanfest CQ presentation, they said it's going to replace the current "docked" view.
Not enhance. REPLACE. As in, NOT optional.

If the latest news is accurate, AT BEST we can hope for an optional "don't load anything at all", if even that.

Through all their presentations I've seen so far, the bolded part of your post was what they were communicating all along. So yeah, they'll replace the hangar view.

Where's the problem now?

I'll tell you where it is: You people countin' your chickens before they hatched.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.04.22 22:01:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: theocratis


I have an Nvidia 285 GTX not the most hungry card but still it was top of the nvidia line at one point. at idle it draws 1.05 volts. on tranquility it draws 1.15 volts. on duality(CQ test server) it draws 1.15 volts. it was a whole one degree hotter in station on duality vs tranquility. 85 vs 84


Watts, Jesus Christ, Watts and even then your figures are way way off. Rolling EyesShocked ugh

Next time stay a wake in your physics lessons.

And we talking about power consumption or heat generation, here. ? Rolling Eyes


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