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Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2011.04.25 14:02:00 - [151]
 

Judging by the OPs post...
...i can only conclude that he is reptillian.

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.04.25 14:25:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: Jenn aSide on 25/04/2011 14:25:53
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 25/04/2011 14:25:04
Originally by: death klokk
[

I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).



bitter?


Not at all, simply pointing out that what you are saying is stupid. Some people don't grasp the concept that other people are not them, and thus have differnet wants , needs and enjoy different things.

For me, shooting rats in an anom (to fund pvp) from the comfort of home while drinking beer, watching TV and BSing on comms with corp mates while the kids sleep is worlds away better than working overtime on my job if it's available (I'm a police officer). And being a family man, if I DID get some extra money I'm going to spend it on , oh I dunno, my family rather than use it as a short cut for more internet space ships.


Quote:

Anyway, enjoy playing the game for "free".


Thanks, I will, keep buying those GTCs so I can.

Quote:

However, it would be nice to live with my mom and be bill free, except for the whole zero privacy drama that accompanies that.


Nice dodge, but I'm still betting you can't possibly have many real life responsibilities if you think the way you do.



Quote:

That is very interesting. I wonder if the playerbase continues to pay/play because they truly enjoy the game even though they want more from CCP, or if they play because of a lack of other options involving mmo spaceships.



I play because I enjoy it, there ARE other space ship games, don't care for em personally , but to each his own. The question is, if you hate eve as it is, why play at all?

I think you're the one who is somewhat bitter at the fact that somehow a video came no one is forcing you to play isn't to your standards. Oh well lol.

Chicken Blood
Posted - 2011.04.25 14:40:00 - [153]
 

Some people are posting in this thread just because they feel the ingame plex value threatened? This is my EVE Very Happy

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.25 15:19:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
I came to this conclusion a long time ago. My best ISK/hour income is working a real job and buying/selling GTCs. I'd rather do my real job than mine or do missions too. That's sad when gameplay is more boring than a real job--it shows failure as far as game design goes. Games should always be more fun than a real job unless you just really like your job.


Failure in game design that you spend real money on is in fact success for everyone involved.

Galara Hakari
Caldari
Lunar Alchemist's
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2011.04.25 15:31:00 - [155]
 

It's quite hilarious to see the sheer amount of RL-wallet-peen flexing in this thread.
I am a strong believer, that video games are just that - games, entertainment. If you do not enjoy it - do not play it. No matter now much $$ I can generate IRL per hour, if I have to sink additional funds in the game I play (beyond sub fee) to enjoy it - it is not a game for me. Simple, really.

StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:20:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: StillBorn CrackBaby on 25/04/2011 16:22:17
Edited by: StillBorn CrackBaby on 25/04/2011 16:21:06
Originally by: Jenn aSide
I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).

The original post is beyond stupid, it should be against the law.


Wow, melodramatic whining or what. The OP has a very valid point...

I've been playing like this since my first week in EVE almost 3 years ago, I buy GTC's and trade for ISK. It's a win win situation. I get the ISK I want, the buyer gets his account paid for? So what's the problem?

And I have lots of Real Life responsibilities...

Married 32 years, $2200.00 a month mortgage payment, etc...

And a lovely wife, who's a gamer with her own rig and takes part in beta testing of new games she does.
I got it all man, GOT IT ALL !!!

Woot !!!

Ripley Nostromo
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:25:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Galara Hakari
if I have to sink additional funds in the game I play (beyond sub fee) to enjoy it - it is not a game for me. Simple, really.

No one says you have to? But you did spend I assume to pay for the rig you are playing on? It's all part of the cost...

Scorpii Orion
Perkone
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:28:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: death klokk
Steps for success:

1. Get an education.
2. Get job with said education.
3. Buy GTC
4. Sell

Get education to buy internetspaceships money... Priceless.

Galara Hakari
Caldari
Lunar Alchemist's
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:29:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Ripley Nostromo

No one says you have to?

That's exactly my point - everyone plays the game to enjoy it. And if someone finds enjoyment in spending RL currency on it - so be it. Not me ^_^

And my PC was built for a different reason, being able to play video games on it is just a bonus

Ripley Nostromo
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:33:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Galara Hakari
Originally by: Ripley Nostromo

No one says you have to?

That's exactly my point - everyone plays the game to enjoy it. And if someone finds enjoyment in spending RL currency on it - so be it. Not me ^_^


Right on bro...

Quote:
And my PC was built for a different reason, being able to play video games on it is just a bonus

My PC's are ALL built for gaming first. Got 7 or 8 that can play EVE, got 2 can play Crysis high end...

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.04.25 17:07:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby

Originally by: Jenn aSide
I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).

The original post is beyond stupid, it should be against the law.


Wow, melodramatic whining or what. The OP has a very valid point...


No, he actually doesn't for anyone except himself (and you it seems). He finds eve pve content lacking, so of course, we ALL most find it equally lacking right?

I know people who actually like mining (while BSing with frineds on comms, or doing homework, or hell, even cleaning their house). Well, mining just isn't for me no matter what company I'm in.

But you see, as I can internalize the idea that not everyone is like me, nor are they in my same situation, well, whatever, how they choose to enjoy the game is fine with me.

Want to buy your isk, that's fine, but don't look at me like I'm crazy because I choose to do things differently because I'm not you. I have plenty of time to kill rats, and plenty of beer and actual friends in my corp, so that's better to patrolling the hood hoping some stillborn crackbaby (lol, see what I did there) decides to take a shot at me....

Quote:

I've been playing like this since my first week in EVE almost 3 years ago, I buy GTC's and trade for ISK. It's a win win situation. I get the ISK I want, the buyer gets his account paid for? So what's the problem?


No problem at all, it's the OP who has a problem.

Quote:

And I have lots of Real Life responsibilities...

Married 32 years, $2200.00 a month mortgage payment, etc...


Great, then you can buy some GTCs for the op so he can play a game he actually enjoys lol.

My point is that the OP is just stupid (evidence by the $35 an hour comment), people do things for their own reasons (pvp, pve whatever), the suggestion that people who make in game isk to stay in game are doing something wrong is just dumb, especially when it's people like me who are the market for people like him( and YOU lol).

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.04.25 22:21:00 - [162]
 

PLEX / GTC used to be worth buying with ISK. I am amazed at how many people are willing to spend this kind of ISK on a game time, and yet deathly afraid of taking any risk in ships valued at 5m isk. It makes me wonder if the problem is IRL or with the ISK faucet, or both.

StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2011.04.26 00:37:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Jenn aSide
Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby

Originally by: Jenn aSide
I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).

The original post is beyond stupid, it should be against the law.


Wow, melodramatic whining or what. The OP has a very valid point...


No, he actually doesn't for anyone except himself (and you it seems). He finds eve pve content lacking, so of course, we ALL most find it equally lacking right?

Um, no. His point that buying GTC's and trading them for ISK is valid...

As for me I do PVE because or when I want to. Not because I have to do it or other tedious activities in EVE just to earn ISK.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.26 02:30:00 - [164]
 

Quote:
Why are you so angry? Why do I have to fail at life because you hate the aspect of your life that provides the means for you to sustain housing, clothing, food, and entertainment? Wouldn't this really make you fail at life because you are unable to do something you enjoy that simultaneously earn you a living? I guess your real life sucks. Why do you assume "work sucks" for everyone? I, like many other people i'm sure, enjoy my day job. Actually, I enjoy it much more than any form of PVE in EvE.

edit: Maybe not "much more", but you get my drift.


I said you fail at life because your entire premise was based on a falsehood. I was not assuming you were incorrect, you were in fact incorrect. Since you don't PvP in EvE that makes you a troll.


omgfreemoniez
Posted - 2011.04.26 02:39:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
PLEX / GTC used to be worth buying with ISK. I am amazed at how many people are willing to spend this kind of ISK on a game time, and yet deathly afraid of taking any risk in ships valued at 5m isk. It makes me wonder if the problem is IRL or with the ISK faucet, or both.


Interesting point.

Dresine
Posted - 2011.04.26 04:21:00 - [166]
 

First up, when I had less kids and more income, I brought the occasional PLEX for my 'blooding' into pvp. Just wanted to declare that ;-)

I would like to ask this question. Why is it fair that someone who has free income can get more of an advantage over someone who hasn't?

To answer my own question, I don't think it is fair at all. Its an uneven playing field, simple as that. I have friends who have only just recently got into the game. Due to a higher or more disposable income they are now running around in navy this and navy that, with plans to buy pirate faction. Yep I'm jealous, and good luck to them, but aren't people missing the point? It seems clear to me that people who buy Plex on a regular basis are not achieving anything in the game. Sure they skill up, we all do that, but do they really acquire the skills to do what this game is all about, which is of course THINK. Where is the accomplishment in buying a navy mega through a Plex? I guess if your vain, you get to go look at me, I'm so cool, but what did you do to earn it in game? Personally, there is no satisfaction in seeing a navy ship or a carrier anymore in low sec because its so easy to just go bah just another plex ship. There was a day when you rarely saw one, and the ones you saw you knew that the player had earnt it, which made it special. I'm sure people are running around in carriers which they earned through the game, just a pity that there is a suspicion that they brought it with plex hanging over their heads.

Judicator Saturnius
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.04.26 04:37:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Dresine
There was a day when you rarely saw one, and the ones you saw you knew that the player had earnt it, which made it special. I'm sure people are running around in carriers which they earned through the game, just a pity that there is a suspicion that they brought it with plex hanging over their heads.


You know, I have to agree with the sentiment, but it's fundamentally flawed. When I first sub'd years ago, there were few who had PLEX'd their way into high sp characters. The community was a lot smaller, and the end-game was battleships.

Fast forward close to eight years and that paradigm is gone. A player has a lot higher to climb to get on the same level as he used to. Training into a battleship isn't enough to land you in most fleets, now you need a hac, or a specific weapon system (artillery atm), etc. These days buying up into characters is a high demand market. At the same time, the vets who've spent the better part of those 8 years playing these high end characters are more than willing to part with them (and their large sums of isk) through the same system.

You might not think the system is fair, but it's working to the benefit of everyone involved. I get to sell my characters for isk, or my isk for gametime i'd rather not pay for irl. The new players get to purchase one of my alts for a leg-up in large scale pvp or my isk for the benefit of not needing to grind so much. Resources are not being created or destroyed here. Nobody with cash is magically causing isk to appear. Both parties are recieving a benefit, else there would be no transaction in the first place.

Dresine
Posted - 2011.04.26 05:39:00 - [168]
 

Quote:
The new players get to purchase one of my alts for a leg-up in large scale pvp or my isk for the benefit of not needing to grind so much. Resources are not being created or destroyed here. Nobody with cash is magically causing isk to appear. Both parties are recieving a benefit, else there would be no transaction in the first place.


Well thought out response and your points are valid. my response to this though is that the new player experience is limited then. I'm unsure how buying an established character teaches you how to play the game. Nor am I unsure how such a situation as you describe gains more players to Eve. The new player experience to Eve is already daunting enough and needs addressing somehow. What you describe (and its true because those same friends I referred to in my first post are thinking about buying experienced Characters) raises concerns about whether CCP would have the will or desire to address it.

I cannot accept, sorry not trying to step on your toes here, how resources are not lost. The market for t1 products is diminished by what you describe, thereby creating a vacuum which no industrialist will fulfill. This then simply causes those industrialists with the skill and T2 Blue prints to be rooted firmly in place with no one coming underneath them (we are of course talking worst possible examples here, which is proably not realistic, though possible).

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.26 05:44:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/04/2011 05:51:40
Originally by: Dresine
It seems clear to me that people who buy Plex on a regular basis are not achieving anything in the game. Sure they skill up, we all do that, but do they really acquire the skills to do what this game is all about, which is of course THINK. Where is the accomplishment in buying a navy mega through a Plex?

On the other hand: what's the accomplishment in paying 2 years of subscription and filling your skillqueue on a regular basis? Personally I'd never ever buy a plex but I can see why people would want to buy characters.

Originally by: Dresine
I'm unsure how buying an established character teaches you how to play the game.

Well, not being able to fly or fit stuff definitely doesn't teach you how things in EVE work. You learn from trial and error and experience, but how can you learn if you can't try and experience because your skills hardly allow anything?

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2011.04.26 07:26:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Feyona on 26/04/2011 07:27:02
Originally by: ZZZu Khaaaarhg
What are you talking about? I "earn" $3 per hour irl and that's far from the lowest on this planet.

Not whole world lives by american standards.


Most people here (being the US) don't make that much. Most people don't even make half of that. Even people I know that graduated with computer science degrees or engineering degrees are only making 20$ an hour or so.

And that's if they can find a job in their field at all, lots of people I know are still working retail and flipping burgers with 30,000 in student debt.

StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2011.04.26 17:46:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Dresine
...but aren't people missing the point? It seems clear to me that people who buy Plex on a regular basis are not achieving anything in the game...
Are you kidding? Achieving anything in the game like what? It's a game that all just a game there is no real "achievments" to be had here. And I think it is you missing the point. The point is to "have fun". I have plenty of that in game...

Quote:
...but what did you do to earn it in game?
Nobody earns anything they fly in game. They buy it with ISK,

Quote:
...and the ones you saw you knew that the player had earnt it, which made it special.
Special to who?

BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2011.04.26 17:48:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Feyona
And that's if they can find a job in their field at all, lots of people I know are still working retail and flipping burgers with 30,000 in student debt.

And here I am making $70,000 a years as a Mainframe Guru and I never finished high school. Sometimes you just gotta be in the right place at the right time... (And of course with no student debt)...

Klauz Lycan
Posted - 2011.04.26 18:11:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
I came to this conclusion a long time ago. My best ISK/hour income is working a real job and buying/selling GTCs. I'd rather do my real job than mine or do missions too. That's sad when gameplay is more boring than a real job--it shows failure as far as game design goes. Games should always be more fun than a real job unless you just really like your job.


this.
i really enjoy my job. (i really do!) and i could spend some money on isk if i wanted to. but as said, if you really spend real money on a game you miss the whole point. but as kyra felann said: when gameplay is more boring than your job is is failure all along. and even if i really like my job its different from playing a _game_ and if you have to work irl to have fun in a game... than it feels horribly wrong.
just my 2 cent

Sofa Raddis
Posted - 2011.04.26 20:22:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: clixor

If you buy PLEXes from CCP, other than for startup costs, wth does isk even mean? It removes all incentives to work smarter and all feeling of progress is useless.



Even for startup costs it didn't feel right for me.


Yes, I consider my time to be worth more than 5$ an hour, hell, you'd get the equivalent on welfare in my country.
But still I am paying for several services (not just games) to have it killed, way more than 5$ per hour murder often.

So i guess I dont really have a opinion relevant to anyone else on this. I can swing both ways, But I have to say, that it does have a slight detrimental effect on gameplay for me.

I guess "fun" is being left out of this, but I guess that it's irrelevant to this discussion, as it evolves around efficiency.

death klokk
Posted - 2011.04.28 03:06:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Jenn aSide

Not at all, simply pointing out that what you are saying is stupid. Some people don't grasp the concept that other people are not them, and thus have differnet wants , needs and enjoy different things.

For me, shooting rats in an anom (to fund pvp) from the comfort of home while drinking beer, watching TV and BSing on comms with corp mates while....


Funny I could have sworn...
from the unedited original post:
"Now mind you, some people PVE for reasons other than trying to maximize their in-game wealth as fast as possible (IE: running lvl 5s with friends while having a good time on vent/ts, or being constructive by mining while watching your favorite tv program) and if you fall into that category of casual player, then you can move on to the next topic. "

Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Nice dodge, but I'm still betting you can't possibly have many real life responsibilities if you think the way you do.


Want to bet that in isk or cash? Perhaps you should stick to being a cop and stop pretending that you know anything about someone you've never met or better yet anything at all. Effective time management skills are valuable no matter what it is applied to, RL job, video game whatever.


Quote:
The question is, if you hate eve as it is, why play at all?


I said that? I believe i said i hate the grind.. If i hated eve as a whole then you have a point, but I dont hate eve as a whole and so you have no point. You only have meaningless assumptions.

Quote:

I think you're the one who is somewhat bitter at the fact that somehow a video came no one is forcing you to play isn't to your standards. Oh well lol


you might be on to something here. Yes, I am bitter this game after 10 years isnt where it should be when looking at all the broken things in the game. Yes, I am bitter that things to me other than pvp are mindnumbing tasks with no real reward. Fortunately, I am able to set all that aside because the mechanics allow for a "cheap" ,to me atleast, alternative to bypass the boring stuff and do what i enjoy doing.

Jenny Cameron
Caldari
Ordo Eventus
Inception Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.28 12:11:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Klauz Lycan
but as kyra felann said: when gameplay is more boring than your job is is failure all along. and even if i really like my job its different from playing a _game_ and if you have to work irl to have fun in a game... than it feels horribly wrong.
just my 2 cent

/agreed

I wonder if people have jobs that are less horrible than grinding in EVE or that they really don't have anything more useful to spend their money on than microtransactions that effectually double or triple their subscription fee ..

Jack Mayhem
Posted - 2011.04.28 14:09:00 - [177]
 

For those on both extremes of PLEX selling discussion: it all depends on perspective. If you have to grind hours and hours to pay for PLEX, it's much better to buy GTC and enjoy the game. Especially if you earn good money IRL. If you have sufficient surplus of ISK or you are a student, then it's ok to pay for in-game time with ISK.

I earn a very good salary for working in investment banking, but I also make 8-10 billions ISK a month in-game. I see no reason whatsoever not to pay for my 3 accounts with ISK.

Also 3 accounts in subscription would cost me 540EUR/year. You can pay half of vacation bill to Spain with that. That's worth much more than extra 50 Abaddons.

StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2011.04.28 16:53:00 - [178]
 

The bottom line is that CCP allows me to buy GTC's to trade for ISK. Since I play the game the way I WANT to play it, what ever the busybodies have to say about how I spend my RL cash is completely irrelevant...

And if the day comes I can no longer do this, I will just find something else to play...

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.04.28 17:26:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby
The bottom line is that CCP allows me to buy GTC's to trade for ISK. Since I play the game the way I WANT to play it, what ever the busybodies have to say about how I spend my RL cash is completely irrelevant...

And if the day comes I can no longer do this, I will just find something else to play...


Buying GTCs is not "playing" anything, it's just a short cut for people who either really don't have time or who don't like the ways of making isk in game.

I don't really care, to each his own, and I benefit from the GTC short cut system because I can use easily acquired in game isk generated by those short cutters to play the game without costing my family a dime. Win-Win all around.

I simply respnded to the OP because his "suggestion" that people just buy GTCs is stupid, the way he presented it.

He could have basically said "I'd rather go to work than pve in EVE because eve pve is boring to me, I wish CCP would give us better content" and been done with it lol. I like the portions of eve pve that I partake in (even after the "Anom nerf", forsaken Hubs and old fashion exploration are great) and I'm sorry he doesn't.

It was his condescending tone against people who actually like to play the game without short cuts (in addition to his gross inaccuracies about real life money making, which leads me to believe that he must be trolling, $35 an hour indeed :) ) that I was replying to.

I don't care that you buy GTCs, more power to you, but again, if the OP finds eve so lacking and "Grindy" to the point that going to work is more fun than playing, well, he's just in the wrong game, period.

Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.04.28 18:47:00 - [180]
 

I never bought GTC and I really disliked the idea behind it.

Until my work and university ate all my time. Now I'm really considering it lol!

Yes, trying to get ISK when you can play only 3 hours a week is terribad.


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