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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.04.22 06:27:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Felix Maynard
Originally by: Val'Dore

I like my way better:

1. Sod the education.
2. Sod the job.
3. Build a business.
4. Work for straight commission and overrides.
5. Buy an Aston Martin Vanquish.
6. Buy a couple thousand GTCs.
7. Sell a couple thousand GTCs.
8. Play EvE forever.


Motivated enough to start a fortune 500 company, but still trolling eveboards?

lolno


Who said anything about a fortune 500 company?


Felix.


Your box is empty. Fix it.

NucStone
Posted - 2011.04.22 07:52:00 - [122]
 

Earning isk is a game.
Making real money is a job.
That's it

NucStone
Posted - 2011.04.22 08:01:00 - [123]
 

And yeah, the min rate in US is 35, but the world is not only US

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.04.22 09:29:00 - [124]
 

I came to this conclusion a long time ago. My best ISK/hour income is working a real job and buying/selling GTCs. I'd rather do my real job than mine or do missions too. That's sad when gameplay is more boring than a real job--it shows failure as far as game design goes. Games should always be more fun than a real job unless you just really like your job.

Genetically Different
Posted - 2011.04.22 11:52:00 - [125]
 

Im jus bumpin this thread cause its true... lol.. love the man for stating the truth..

lets see.. im on...$840m isk an hour plus the odd Faction loot I score for productivity. Whew,, Now that I think about it.. Public Holidays, weekends, travel allowences and crib..

The thing is though.. you can kiss it if you think i would spend a cent of my $$ on ISK. Ill jus cruise arround in my tengu, slowly building it up to replace my carrier if i lose it in war. Steady steady, enjoying it as I go.


Hugh The Hand
Posted - 2011.04.22 17:09:00 - [126]
 

...how in the hell did PLEX get this high? I've missed so much.

Yes please, everyone flood the market so I can play for isk again.

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:15:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Jenn aSide on 22/04/2011 18:15:43

I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).

And $35 an hour?
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2010/09/14/average-american-salary/
The Average American wage is less than $21 per hour, 35 an hour is just a little less than the average worker could make doing overtime. Yea, in a time where employers are cutting posistions, wages and hours, yea sure go get that overtime pay and spend it on a game that offers you avenues of playing for free....

The original post is beyond stupid, it should be against the law.

Grog Barrel
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:16:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Tuggboat
Face it. ALL the "balancing" and upgrades are only to enhance CCP's income. If it creates demand for Plex or if it creates the demand for extra characters, "That is the only true "upgrade". Every nerf creates an almost immediate need for plex to quickly rebalance. Every effort to fight lag is to promote large Plex consuming fleet fights.

After their Nerfs pulled me out of high sec,, I really dug the sanctums in null. They were nice after work through the week for quick logins so I could pvp on weekends. I really tried to enjoy this pvp fleet isk burning lifestyle and then they nerf sanctums. This finally convinced me that they don't want balance, they don't want PVP. They don't give a hoot about risk versus reward and I really Don't think they've ever shown much sign of really caring about making the game fun for players.

Its all about selling Plex and accounts and the RMT war is just eliminating competition. Eliminating Bots isn't about rmt, its about encouraging Plex sales instead of grinding. I could go on and on but Real life calls so I can buy a plex or another account:)


Good points. While i, as a gamer since the 80', use to enjoy EvE in some aspects, i will tell you this: Here, on ccp forums, was the first time where i see a company telling their customers repeatdly, in a little indirectly but not subtlety way, that, their max priority goal is the money making, BUT, oddly enough, not by making their customers having the fun/time worthy and/or making them somehow happy.

What really intriges me, is the fact that this kind of approach is being legitimizating itself. Customers, as you can see, aknowledge and fully accept the measures ccp take into consideration to "fix issues", most of them clearly not to fix "ingame issues". As there is no truly signal of customers leaving, why even change the internal political path.

Probably is this a new era, world wide and we'd be witnessing a social-economical evolution in terms of the relationship between service providing companies and customers, where the last one no longer should expect to find a single provider, wanting to truly give him satisfactory services.

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:20:00 - [129]
 

Well there is one little problem to the OP's first post... If too many people would sell Plexes the price would drop a lot and if everyone would sell them nobody would buy them and you're screwed.

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2011.04.23 04:30:00 - [130]
 

this just makes me so sad :(

as he is totally right this REALLY points out the hard true false off eve.

its a pay to win game, with a ptp on top off it o.O
incredibly how greedy some can be :/

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2011.04.23 04:32:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Jenn aSide
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 22/04/2011 18:15:43

I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).

And $35 an hour?
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2010/09/14/average-american-salary/
The Average American wage is less than $21 per hour, 35 an hour is just a little less than the average worker could make doing overtime. Yea, in a time where employers are cutting posistions, wages and hours, yea sure go get that overtime pay and spend it on a game that offers you avenues of playing for free....

The original post is beyond stupid, it should be against the law.


even at 21$ its still over 200mill isk a hour soo yer..
average you can make with a decend low risk is 50mill. thats 4 times as much.

the fact that you can even legit turn rl money into isk is just rediculess and it destroyes the ingame occonomy.

death klokk
Posted - 2011.04.23 05:01:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: death klokk on 23/04/2011 05:14:20
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 22/04/2011 18:15:43

I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).



bitter?

http://www1.salary.com/Staff-Nurse-RN-Operating-Room-salary.html


See step 1.

Anyway, enjoy playing the game for "free".

However, it would be nice to live with my mom and be bill free, except for the whole zero privacy drama that accompanies that.

edit for comment:
Originally by: Grog Barrel

What really intriges me, is the fact that this kind of approach is being legitimizating itself. Customers, as you can see, aknowledge and fully accept the measures ccp take into consideration to "fix issues", most of them clearly not to fix "ingame issues". As there is no truly signal of customers leaving, why even change the internal political path.


That is very interesting. I wonder if the playerbase continues to pay/play because they truly enjoy the game even though they want more from CCP, or if they play because of a lack of other options involving mmo spaceships.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.23 05:18:00 - [133]
 

Quote:
GTC's are currently priced at 35$ USD and selling for like 700mil each give or take 20mil. Any decent job will pay you that for an hour of work.


The rate of pay that you quote is nearly double the average for a *family* in the US.

You fail at life assclown.

Next time you choose troll don't fail at math.


Nakaota Auduin
Posted - 2011.04.23 05:47:00 - [134]
 

Frankly, I could flip burgers at McDonalds and make ISK at a faster rate than most of us can in-game. I think that's part of the original point of this post, although it's sort of stating the obvious. We're happy for you, OP, that you passed second grade math. Good job.

I think some assumptions are completely off though. For instance, just because you make $35/hr (or whatever the OP thinks the minimum is, LOL), doesn't mean you'll want to spend it on EVE. I make significantly more than $35/hr, and I've never bought GTCs, and never will. I have much better things to spend money on, and knowing how hard I work for it, I do not take spending likely. I assume that GTCs are mostly purchased by financially irresponsible people - that is children/youngsters who are self-indulgent and who haven't started a family yet. Ironically, those are the people who generally have the least money to spend.

The GTC aspect of the game actually really bothers me. It's an obvious easy revenue stream for many MMOs, but most other MMOs forbid it, in favor of fair play. CCP, on the other hand, prosecutes "illegal" isk trading, but trades isk themselves. And since they also print isk, it effects the in-game economy, which they supposedly care about, but not enough not to fill their own pockets. I could go on forever, ranting about how majority of the system is actually centered around keeping people feeling inadequate and keeping disinterested people from leaving completely, but nobody at CCP cares if you're actually playing the game, as long as you keep paying them. Look at botting, the training system, and GTC, only a few obvious indicators of where CCP's focus really lies.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.23 06:38:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Jireel
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
I know it's sactioned by CCP and all, but spending real money for ISK just feels like cheating to me. vOv

I have no problem with other people doing it. That's just not how I want to play my game.

Same here. I could do that easily, but I want to play the game, not buy my way through.



I feel it also. Buying money in online games pretty much defeat the objectiv of the game: wealth and power. Since power can be bought with wealth in many ways, buying money is like starting a game with codebreaker quick exp gain or infinite money codes.

I also consider it cheating.

Potrondal Morrison
Posted - 2011.04.23 07:01:00 - [136]
 

I only read the OPs opening post and i felt like i had to say:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.04.23 07:18:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Originally by: death klokk


GTC's are currently priced at 35$ USD and selling for like 700mil each give or take 20mil. Any decent job will pay you that for an hour of work.

...

current minimum wage laws in the US pay more than that.


Great! Can you help me get a green card so I can move over to US and work for $35 an hour? It's really a pain to pay for EVE where I live, because the monthly average wage on the state level here is around $200.



The overwhelming majority of people in the US earn ~$15/hour

Pinaculus
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:30:00 - [138]
 

My EVE time is fixed. I will either spend $30 bucks on PLEX, and use that EVE time buying/flying pimpy ship, or I will save $30 bucks and fly non-pimpy ships while grinding ISK in-game. I can now use that $30 bucks on anything else (such as taking my wife to the movies). I would rather make my marriage more valuable by investing $30 in it than make my EVE account $30 more valuable.

Concord Bilboard
Posted - 2011.04.23 11:51:00 - [139]
 

death klokk- your speaking of USA (Usd 35/h), that is not the whole world. Average sallary in my country is around 700 USD/month (or USD 4/h)... So 1 plex (usd 15) equals 3houres of WORK or 3h of GAME (if you can manage to have +/- 100 mil isk/h)...

Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.04.23 13:24:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Neutrino Sunset on 23/04/2011 14:30:57
The point was made earlier that the more people sell plex, the more demand there will be for stuff, so more manufacturers will start manufacturing stuff keeping prices in balance.

I think that's false.

While there may well be a certain number of ex-manufacturers or potential new manufacturers that might be drawn to manufacturing more stuff if prices go up I think demand for stuff can easily outstrip supply. Many PvPers for example are not going to suddenly choose to start T2 production just because stuff is expensive.

Isn't the following scenario possible:

The more people who buy plex the more bots will be encouraged to generate the isk those people want. Players who do not bot or use RMT to fund their play will then get hit in 3 different ways.

1. Bots saturate the market with minerals, loot and salvage keeping income from ratting and mining low.

2. Prices of high end goods T2 ships etc rise in response to demand from rich players selling plex.

3. Income of non-RMTing players remains unchanged and in the face of rising prices they are placed at a clear competitve disadvantage compared to those who RMT.

Isn't this exactly what we are already seeing?

Now that CCP has legalised RMT it's basically a form of macrotransactions where you can buy any ingame equipment you want with cash. There are reported instances of alliances buying entire capital and supercapital fleets with RMT. So like that other guys says, we are now playing a "pay to play" game with "pay to win" on top.

And it sucks.

CCP can't even distribute in game stuff like moon goo without massive imbalance and completely ballsing up the economy. There was never the slightest chance that they'd be able to mix ingame and RL cash without completely buggering everything up.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.23 14:02:00 - [141]
 

Quote:
The more people who buy plex the more bots will be encouraged to generate the isk those people want.


Wrong. The people who bot are breaking the rules for self gain. They won't be any more encouraged or discouraged to bot. The only variable that controls them is being banned.

As far as it being "worth it" to just buy your gametime, whatever floats one's boat. I would rather spend time playing EvE than working personally. EvE is fun and work sucks.

My mom used to say the same thing as Red Foreman. "Its called work for a reason. If it wasn't, it'd be called superhappyfuntime".

Also, too much stress is put on "isk per hour". If you can make enough money in eve to buy the stuff you want and buy your gametime you are "doing it right", no matter what some forum troll tells you.



Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.04.23 14:29:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Wrong. The people who bot are breaking the rules for self gain. They won't be any more encouraged or discouraged to bot. The only variable that controls them is being banned.


You seem to be suggesting that no bots in Eve are used to support RMT, and that legalized RMT does not stimulate the creation of vast amounts of isk using automation. But I surely must have misunderstood you because of course that would be crazy talk.

If that is indeed what you are saying then I tip my hat to you sir, because that is a remarkably sweeping generalization even for these forums.

Esharan
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.23 15:34:00 - [143]
 

Average income in the U.S. isn't 68k/year - I just graduated college, BSBA concentration marketing - got a good job doing marketing for a software company in MA. and am gonna make 56k a year. I mean granted its my first job, but that isn't $35/hr so it would cost me more....

Prob will still buy some tho ;)

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.23 16:57:00 - [144]
 

Last I checked mining was only a few million an hour, Why would anybody even waste electricity for that kind of isk even if it was on a bot? Players are not the problem, CCP is.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.04.23 17:12:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: death klokk
bitter?

http://www1.salary.com/Staff-Nurse-RN-Operating-Room-salary.html


That's all RNs make?! Glad I never fell for that scam.

Atra Hasis
Posted - 2011.04.23 17:59:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Atra Hasis on 23/04/2011 17:59:28
I bought a GTC once. I bought an Orca fully fit with the proceeds. This Orca was several weeks later blown up by a destroyer. I have not bought another GTC.

Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
Hav0k.
Posted - 2011.04.23 18:27:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Jenn aSide
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 22/04/2011 18:15:43

I'll bet my next month's pay that the OP lives in his mom's basement , rides a bike to school and has no bills to pay (or wife or kids).

And $35 an hour?
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2010/09/14/average-american-salary/
The Average American wage is less than $21 per hour, 35 an hour is just a little less than the average worker could make doing overtime. Yea, in a time where employers are cutting posistions, wages and hours, yea sure go get that overtime pay and spend it on a game that offers you avenues of playing for free....

The original post is beyond stupid, it should be against the law.


The average EVE player isn't the average american...

If you have a wife and kids this is even LESS reason to play EVE, since the cost of playing EVE is even higher (it comes at the expense of family time).

The OP's point stands at any wage ($21/hr or whatever). People in EVE do things that are basically a job (mining) but pay far less.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.23 19:02:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Wrong. The people who bot are breaking the rules for self gain. They won't be any more encouraged or discouraged to bot. The only variable that controls them is being banned.


You seem to be suggesting that no bots in Eve are used to support RMT, and that legalized RMT does not stimulate the creation of vast amounts of isk using automation. But I surely must have misunderstood you because of course that would be crazy talk.

If that is indeed what you are saying then I tip my hat to you sir, because that is a remarkably sweeping generalization even for these forums.



Nah, it just so happens to be right, RMT'ing is certainly self gain, as is receiving money (isk) in game.

i dont know how you could see receiving money as unequal to self gain however.

death klokk
Posted - 2011.04.23 19:23:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: death klokk on 23/04/2011 19:24:56
Originally by: Cipher Jones
You fail at life assclown.

Next time you choose troll don't fail at math.



Quote:


As far as it being "worth it" to just buy your gametime, whatever floats one's boat. I would rather spend time playing EvE than working personally. EvE is fun and work sucks.

My mom used to say the same thing as Red Foreman. "Its called work for a reason. If it wasn't, it'd be called superhappyfuntime".

Also, too much stress is put on "isk per hour". If you can make enough money in eve to buy the stuff you want and buy your gametime you are "doing it right", no matter what some forum troll tells you.





Why are you so angry? Why do I have to fail at life because you hate the aspect of your life that provides the means for you to sustain housing, clothing, food, and entertainment? Wouldn't this really make you fail at life because you are unable to do something you enjoy that simultaneously earn you a living? I guess your real life sucks. Why do you assume "work sucks" for everyone? I, like many other people i'm sure, enjoy my day job. Actually, I enjoy it much more than any form of PVE in EvE.

edit: Maybe not "much more", but you get my drift.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:09:00 - [150]
 

Replacing activities in EVE that feel like work with RL work that pays more per hour sounds OK by itself, but do you really have that much more fun with a few 100m more ISK in EVE? It must have something to do with the show-off element of expensive hobbies...


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