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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.04.21 12:39:00 - [91]
 

Nice attempt to lower the PLEX price 8/10 (-2 because it was too obvious)

Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
Posted - 2011.04.21 13:57:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Tuggboat
Tell me what in Eve is really fun.

Ganking noobs.

Very Happy

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.21 14:46:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Flamewave
Originally by: Tuggboat
Tell me what in Eve is really fun.

Ganking noobs.

Very Happy


Pod concorden scum that ganks noobs Laughing

Nuniki
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.21 14:57:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Nuniki on 21/04/2011 15:01:42
Any job worth anything pays $35 an hour? That's a pretty elitist statement. As a paramedic I make an average of $25 an hour (which is good for a paramedic, by the way, unless you have like 25+ years experience) counting night differentials (depending on what company I am riding with).

I also went into graphic detail talking about the type of stuff we (paramedics, nurses, emts) do for people and why when you're dying in your own *****, vomit, and blood you'll change your mind-- but figured I am just raging. Bad night.

Edit:

I was off topic'ish.

Yes, technically time is money. I think it's dumb that people who don't like grinding isk grind isk. I don't like grinding isk. I do not grind isk. I make my isk from the few times I enjoy making isk, which are few and far between but with my limited game time I've not been losing many ships lately.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.21 15:06:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Lost Greybeard on 21/04/2011 15:07:02
35$/hour is 73k$/year at a full-time job. The median income in the USA is 43k$/year, and that's before federal withholding (social security), federal income taxes, and state income taxes, which generally sum to something like 30% of income, minimum.

So... no. 35$/hour in liquid assets is a trollishly grotesque over-estimation of what someone is going to make. A more reasonable estimate would be about 15$/hour for a white-collar job requiring a bachelor's degree that you've been working at for a few years (21$/hour - 1/3 for taxes).

I mean, I guess the point still stands that that's more than you'd make grinding boring things in-game, but still... come on.

Edited: Wrote mean where i meant median

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.04.21 15:58:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: death klokk
Steps for success:

1. Get an education.
2. Get job with said education.
3. Buy GTC
4. Sell


I like my way better:

1. Sod the education.
2. Sod the job.
3. Build a business.
4. Work for straight commission and overrides.
5. Buy an Aston Martin Vanquish.
6. Buy a couple thousand GTCs.
7. Sell a couple thousand GTCs.
8. Play EvE forever.

Felix Maynard
Posted - 2011.04.21 16:11:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore

I like my way better:

1. Sod the education.
2. Sod the job.
3. Build a business.
4. Work for straight commission and overrides.
5. Buy an Aston Martin Vanquish.
6. Buy a couple thousand GTCs.
7. Sell a couple thousand GTCs.
8. Play EvE forever.


Motivated enough to start a fortune 500 company, but still trolling eveboards?

lolno

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.04.21 16:21:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Felix Maynard
Originally by: Val'Dore

I like my way better:

1. Sod the education.
2. Sod the job.
3. Build a business.
4. Work for straight commission and overrides.
5. Buy an Aston Martin Vanquish.
6. Buy a couple thousand GTCs.
7. Sell a couple thousand GTCs.
8. Play EvE forever.


Motivated enough to start a fortune 500 company, but still trolling eveboards?

lolno


Who said anything about a fortune 500 company?

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.21 16:34:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Felix Maynard
Originally by: Val'Dore

I like my way better:

1. Sod the education.
2. Sod the job.
3. Build a business.
4. Work for straight commission and overrides.
5. Buy an Aston Martin Vanquish.
6. Buy a couple thousand GTCs.
7. Sell a couple thousand GTCs.
8. Play EvE forever.


Motivated enough to start a fortune 500 company, but still trolling eveboards?

lolno


Who said anything about a fortune 500 company?


Felix.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.21 16:41:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Flamewave
Originally by: Tuggboat
Tell me what in Eve is really fun.

Ganking noobs.

Very Happy


The full answer is:

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Montgomery Crabapple
Posted - 2011.04.21 16:51:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Flamewave
Originally by: Tuggboat
Tell me what in Eve is really fun.

Ganking noobs.

Very Happy


The full answer is:

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.


Yea whatever Conan Rolling Eyes.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:05:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 21/04/2011 18:06:00

Every game has some kind of grinding in it and EVE is no different. If you don't do it or don't experience it as such, others will. Just keep in mind if no-one would grind anything your plex would be worthless because no-one would have ISK to pay for them.

And for the income thing: I earn $24.96 an hour and even if I could afford a few plex a month it's just not my thing to buy in-game advantage with RL money. Somewhere I still have the idea that IRL money shouldn't matter and we're all equal in a game (although $ for vanity things don't matter imo). Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:18:00 - [103]
 

My liesure time is priceless.

Tipsy
Gallente
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:26:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: death klokk
GTC's are currently priced at 35$ USD and selling for like 700mil each give or take 20mil. Any decent job will pay you that for an hour of work.
According to the US Census Bureau, via Wikipedia, in 2008 having a salary of $72,800 - $35/hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year - would have put a person in the top 12% of personal income in the United States (and I'd guess there's not been much wage growth in the past two years).

Either I've misunderstood what you meant or you're suggesting that 88% of people in the US and plenty of people from other countries who play this game and earn less than $35 an hour don't have a 'decent' job. I'm sure that's really going to win over the support of people here Laughing

The free time I have to play EVE is time where I would not be earning money through my day job anyway - so it'd be a net loss for me to spend real-life money for this purpose.

If I really didn't enjoy earning ISK in EVE then I suppose I'd consider the trade-off, but I think overall it would reduce my enjoyment of the game to do something which feels like cheating. Where's the challenge in getting ahead if you've done it by means that have nothing to do with your skill at interacting with other players?

Holdout
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:38:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Tuggboat
Face it. ALL the "balancing" and upgrades are only to enhance CCP's income. If it creates demand for Plex or if it creates the demand for extra characters, "That is the only true "upgrade". Every nerf creates an almost immediate need for plex to quickly rebalance. Every effort to fight lag is to promote large Plex consuming fleet fights.

After their Nerfs pulled me out of high sec,, I really dug the sanctums in null. They were nice after work through the week for quick logins so I could pvp on weekends. I really tried to enjoy this pvp fleet isk burning lifestyle and then they nerf sanctums. This finally convinced me that they don't want balance, they don't want PVP. They don't give a hoot about risk versus reward and I really Don't think they've ever shown much sign of really caring about making the game fun for players.

Its all about selling Plex and accounts and the RMT war is just eliminating competition. Eliminating Bots isn't about rmt, its about encouraging Plex sales instead of grinding. I could go on and on but Real life calls so I can buy a plex or another account:)


Waaahhhh, CCP doesn't care!!!!

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:39:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Montgomery Crabapple
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Flamewave
Originally by: Tuggboat
Tell me what in Eve is really fun.

Ganking noobs.

Very Happy


The full answer is:

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.


Yea whatever Conan Rolling Eyes.


Genghis Khan.

the plague
Anthraxus Defense Laboratories
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:51:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: the plague on 21/04/2011 18:52:43
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
35$/hour is 73k$/year at a full-time job. The median income in the USA is 43k$/year, and that's before federal withholding (social security), federal income taxes, and state income taxes, which generally sum to something like 30% of income, minimum.

So... no. 35$/hour in liquid assets is a trollishly grotesque over-estimation of what someone is going to make.


You're absolutely correct that $35/hour is a tremendously optimistic figure. But even you are overestimating here. $43k/year isn't the mediun income, it's close to the mediun HOUSEHOLD income. Actually, mediun household income jumped up to $49,777 in 2009 for the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

Mediun INDIVIDUAL income is much, much less. So the average person doesn't make anywhere even close to $35/hour in the US. And it bears repeating that the US is #2 in the world in adjusted equivilized disposable household income. Meaning the average person in Europe or Asia has far less disposable income for things like games than the average American.

Bottom line: $35/hour would be a way above average national wage anywhere in the world. It's a nice thought, but the vast majority of EVE gamers simply cannot afford to throw down $500 for Plex whenever they feel like it.

Lanrick
Posted - 2011.04.21 19:49:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: The Offerer


"Sorry, honey, I can't make it home until dinner. I'm working overtime so I can pay for the game. Oh, and btw. when I come home I'll just play the game, so I didn't work for nothing."

That'll end well.


She cooks dinner? Mine forgot how to as soon as she got a ring on her finger.

Mr Dilkington
Posted - 2011.04.21 19:57:00 - [109]
 

I would not want to put my real life cash into a game when its so easy to make a fortune with a little effort.
If i didnt like earning the ISK, i would not play.

Lanrick
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:06:00 - [110]
 

It is also worth pointing out that the median income in the US or Europe is very different from say Russia. I have a friend in Russia who make the equivalent of $650 a month as a doctor. Saving $15 by buying a Plex is much more worth it for her. I on the other hand blow $15 on a lunch without much thought. Strange world we live in.

By the same token that making $15 involves much more effort for some because of their situation, same with making 700m isk in the game. For me that would take forever to make since I am relatively new to the game. Much much grinding for me. But for others, not so big a deal. They have better skills, they have access to better facilities, they have access to better blueprints or perhaps they have spent years building a trade network that now pays them dividends I cannot hope to match.

The point is, a Plex might represent a day's worth of work from some and weeks of work for others. For some, their in game time may be far more productive than their out of game time.

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:12:00 - [111]
 

SO lets see. After I crush a noob with shield managment 2 in a retriever I should ransom them and ask for the sounds of this noob's moaning girlfriends on evespeak and I will find eve fulfillment.

"Put her on evespeak while you still have her pilot and make her beg if you ever want to mine another lump of Veldspar in that barge" YARRRR!! Harrr!!

That!! I haven't tried.

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:19:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Tuggboat
SO lets see. After I crush a noob with shield managment 2 in a retriever I should ransom them and ask for the sounds of this noob's moaning girlfriends on evespeak and I will find eve fulfillment.

"Put her on evespeak while you still have her pilot and make her beg if you ever want to mine another lump of Veldspar in that barge" YARRRR!! Harrr!!

That!! I haven't tried.
I have an idea which thread you meant to respond to but this is just too hilarious.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:23:00 - [113]
 

I completely agree.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:28:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 21/04/2011 20:28:45
Originally by: Tuggboat
SO lets see. After I crush a noob with shield managment 2 in a retriever I should ransom them and ask for the sounds of this noob's moaning girlfriends on evespeak and I will find eve fulfillment.



If teh noob has multiple real life girlfriends and you want to hear them on evespeak, then I don't think you understand who the noob is in that scenario.


Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:36:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Tuggboat
SO lets see. After I crush a noob with shield managment 2 in a retriever I should ransom them and ask for the sounds of this noob's moaning girlfriends on evespeak and I will find eve fulfillment.

"Put her on evespeak while you still have her pilot and make her beg if you ever want to mine another lump of Veldspar in that barge" YARRRR!! Harrr!!

That!! I haven't tried.

I have an idea which thread you meant to respond to but this is just too hilarious.


Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Flamewave
Originally by: Tuggboat
Tell me what in Eve is really fun.

Ganking noobs.

Very Happy


The full answer is:

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Emiko Luan
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:56:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Of course if everyone did this the price of PLEX's would drop from oversupply.


~QFT

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.04.22 00:46:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: death klokk

E)Some say it lowers the "value" of items in game to someone personally -> Maybe to an extent, but that doesn't mean people will throw away their money regardless of how they got it. IF i found 20$ on the sidewalk, i'm not going to dispose of it in the nearest trash can because it has no value to me because "i didn't earn it". A loss paid for with cash still remains a loss to me for my money. I am more reluctant to lose actual dollars than i am to lose imaginary currency. I would rather lose 7Billion to corp theft than 350$ in a RL robbery.



Eh? Be consistent. Your method of play as stated in your original post would suggest that the 7b isk theft was generated with RL money, so it's the same thing surely

I think your misinterpreting the term 'value' when it comes to playing Eve. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks about my short term plans and goals in-game, with an eye on the long term, far too much for what is a game. But the reason I/we do this is because as long as you take care of RL, Eve is a superb distraction, so why sully it with cheap and easy tactics. It doesn't have to be tough or a grind, but somewhat of an effort that simply adds value to your free time and the isk/assets gained. Different strokes I suppose, and it's not that the selling of PLEX for isk is a bad thing, just something I'm sure a lot are not interested in doing

And you really messed up with the $35 comment Wink

death klokk
Posted - 2011.04.22 01:44:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: death klokk on 22/04/2011 01:51:33
Originally by: Potato IQ
Originally by: death klokk

E)Some say it lowers the "value" of items in game to someone personally -> Maybe to an extent, but that doesn't mean people will throw away their money regardless of how they got it. IF i found 20$ on the sidewalk, i'm not going to dispose of it in the nearest trash can because it has no value to me because "i didn't earn it". A loss paid for with cash still remains a loss to me for my money. I am more reluctant to lose actual dollars than i am to lose imaginary currency. I would rather lose 7Billion to corp theft than 350$ in a RL robbery.



Eh? Be consistent. Your method of play as stated in your original post would suggest that the 7b isk theft was generated with RL money, so it's the same thing surely

I think your misinterpreting the term 'value' when it comes to playing Eve. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks about my short term plans and goals in-game, with an eye on the long term, far too much for what is a game. But the reason I/we do this is because as long as you take care of RL, Eve is a superb distraction, so why sully it with cheap and easy tactics. It doesn't have to be tough or a grind, but somewhat of an effort that simply adds value to your free time and the isk/assets gained. Different strokes I suppose, and it's not that the selling of PLEX for isk is a bad thing, just something I'm sure a lot are not interested in doing

And you really messed up with the $35 comment Wink


Yeah i think the 35$/hr comment ****ed some people off. IDk.. i make that an hour (untaxed) with a 2 year degree in the healthcare field so I suppose my view on that is fairly skewed which most have pointed out. Plus, I didnt realize some players are actually playing a game that costs over 2% their monthly income if they were a doctor in russia. ( assuming the game costs 15$/month and doctor earns 650$/month according to above poster). The percentage of income this game costs goes up more substantially if you make less than that as im sure not everyone in Russia are doctors.

My point about the 7 billion, which i should have clarified, is if I made that using in game mechanics doing whatever. Maybe I should have said, "If you asked me if I would rather receive 7 billion iskies or 350$ what would you choose", i would easily take the 350$. Sure, they are worth the same when comparing them to each other at the current conversion rates (assuming i can convert the $350 to 7bil isk and vice/versa), I would still rather have the cash in hand as opposed to the currency in game even if I could instantly convert the isk to real money. Logically, it would make no difference which I took, but because of my personal set values on items I would rather receive it in USD.

edit: I wonder how many people would not be able to afford the game if plex for isk didnt exist, or people with my mentality didn't exist.

Romo Skywind
Posted - 2011.04.22 02:28:00 - [119]
 

Holy ****.

I just realized I make more money grinding in Eve than I do at my minimum wage part time job I got to help pay for school.


*winning*

Jozar Bohman
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:25:00 - [120]
 

http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-112550-9317-5-what-millionaires-have-in-common?ywaad=ad0035

I'm one of those people, and I won't spend money buying GTCs. That's not how I got to where I am. Now that said I don't have a lot of time to play this game either...


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