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Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:27:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Pfeils Goodman
It appears there may be a 24 hour delay in the completion of our vote. I foolishly thought I could offer Ston such a gift without first getting the blessing of our spiritual leader, Rosie O'Donnell. She has been consulted and we expect her blessing sometime tomorrow.

As some on here have rushed to Ston's aid threatening violence against Rosie's Chub Club, I ask of you, what would Ston do?


Uh.. Ston wouldn't have war'deccd you? What point are you trying to make? We are rushing to defense, it is you who is declaring war on a peaceful corporation.


Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:41:00 - [242]
 

ANTICIPATION OF NEW FORUM

Manwe Todako and Ston Momaki will merge threads in the new format coming September 5th. The administrators of this forum have declared that these forums will be "cast into space and frozen in time." When the new forum opens, there will be one thread entitled, "Disciples of Ston." Both Manwe and I will post our regular logs on that thread. This does not preclude additional threads for special issues that arise from time to time. One reason we are doing this is so that can present a united front in our work and interact with each other more easily. It will also enable the community to more easily see the work of the Disciples in one place.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.

Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:58:00 - [243]
 

Can nay say much 'bout motivations for tryin' to defend the Disciples of Ston, but seein' as how they nay be the aggressors in this conflict, I be more than willing to point guns and missiles in the direction o' Goodman and her mates if need be.

Pfeils Goodman
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:23:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Pfeils Goodman on 01/09/2011 14:24:28
Originally by: Jason Galente


Uh.. Ston wouldn't have war'deccd you? What point are you trying to make? We are rushing to defense, it is you who is declaring war on a peaceful corporation.




Ston seeks to avoid violence. A wardec against him likely means little as he normally flies only rookie ships, trains no skills and just a few weeks ago stole in order to lead people to fire on him.

A wardec against Ston which leads to violence between the war decc'er and unrelated defenders of Ston will certainly be bloody. I guess its the equivalent of those ancient earth religions who blow each other up in the name of their religion despite strict orders against killing.

The thing is, those earth religions went on killing each other because their gods never spoke to them again, telling them that their killing of each other was against his wishes.

Ston has the opportunity here to do what those earth gods could not.

Really, now that Rosie has approved our gift to Ston, the only thing that I see preventing great violence would be the diplomatic powers of Ston and his monks.

Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:32:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Pfeils Goodman

Ston seeks to avoid violence. A wardec against him likely means little as he normally flies only rookie ships, trains no skills and just a few weeks ago stole in order to lead people to fire on him.

A wardec against Ston which leads to violence between the war decc'er and unrelated defenders of Ston will certainly be bloody. I guess its the equivalent of those ancient earth religions who blow each other up in the name of their religion despite strict orders against killing.

The thing is, those earth religions went on killing each other because their gods never spoke to them again, telling them that their killing of each other was against his wishes.

Ston has the opportunity here to do what those earth gods could not.

Really, now that Rosie has approved our gift to Ston, the only thing that I see preventing great violence would be the diplomatic powers of Ston and his monks.


Yet more people spoutin' off references to ancient Terran religions and lore. Curious as to where ye all be gettin' this information.

So let me get this straight, yer declarin' war on an entity that ye know be against violence just to see if he will tell others nay to defend him? Gotta love the sadistic mindsets o' certain capsuleers.

'Course, ye failed to mention that ye could also "avoid great violence" by ceasin' to be a twisted sadist and simply nay shootin' at him. Suppose that may be a bit beyond yer mental grasp though.

Pfeils Goodman
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:41:00 - [246]
 

Edited by: Pfeils Goodman on 01/09/2011 14:42:07
I have never fired upon a Ston.

You have no evidence that I ever will.

In many cultures here in New Eden, a wardec on someone, during which you never fire upon them is considered the most generous of gifts. It shows not only that you are willing to spend isk, but something far more important.

Giving the gift of a wardec says 'Its not fear of concord that keeps me from having shot you, its true gratitude'.

You never truly know who loves you until they CAN fire upon you but do not.

Rosie understands this. I understand this. Ston was very generous to me. Forgive me if my ways seem alien to you.

Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:48:00 - [247]
 

Huh.

Ye could just give ISK and, ye know, do somethin' productive with it instead o' sending it to CONCORD in order to nay shoot at someone...

But hey, whate'er suits your fancy, love.

Pfeils Goodman
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:07:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Malcolm Khross
Huh.

Ye could just give ISK and, ye know, do somethin' productive with it instead o' sending it to CONCORD in order to nay shoot at someone...


Its the thought that counts.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:01:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Jason Galente on 01/09/2011 20:01:03
Well, I learned something new about psychology today..

[Editted for spacing issues]


Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:28:00 - [250]
 

SAD DAY TODAY

Today in Aurohunen I was pod killed by a nameless outlaw. (not Ms. Goodman) I was there to try to interact specifically with outlaws, but the attack happened so fast I had no time. Ship and pod went in seconds. Todaki is close by, so I raced back as soon as I could after reintegration both to try and catch the outlaw in conversation and to recover my old body for proper rites. Sadly, both were gone. Even though this might be exactly what such outlaws want to hear, I will say it anyway. It grieves me that this body that experienced so many things and was integrated so fully with my mind and emotions, will be treated with no dignity by someone who does not respect the value that I attach to it. I had so hoped to recover that vessel of flesh so I could dispose of it in a dignified way. I will try to repress the thought of what will happen to that body. This has happened many times in the past, but today it is bothering me more than ever before. I find that I am drifting away from my comfort in the life of the capsuleer. My humanity is re-encroaching itself upon me, if that makes any sense.

Manwe says this is why he is training and equipping, so we can survive in less secure space long enough to make an impact or at least learn while there. I think he is right. If we want to talk to the lawless, we must go to where they are.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.02 02:13:00 - [251]
 

Rosie's Chub Club Declares War Against Disciples of Ston
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2011.09.02 01:16

Rosie's Chub Club has declared war on Disciples of Ston.
Within 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved.

This was received from Ms. Goodman via Concord late today. Quite an interesting "personality" is this Ms. Goodman. I am not anxious to do anything that would hasten the pulling of the trigger by anyone against anyone. I do sincerely hope that this is just your way of saying thank you for the gift of the stellar core.

Rosie's Chub Club has one member, Ms. Goodman. As disciples, our policy will be to avoid any contact with Ms Goodman and thus avoid conflict. Neither Manwe nor I have any weapons installed on our ships, so Ms. Goodman need not worry about any harm to her by either of us. Edaine is another story. I have no responsibility for his choices in the matter; he is not a disciple. He is not a pacifist. He is armed. He will see the notification from Concord as well. Ms. Goodman, I have no idea how well trained he is, or how well armed he is. I have no desire to see either of you hurt in any way. I hope you will stay clear of each other. The Disciples of Ston bid you peace and safety, Ms. Goodman

NOW BACK TO THE RANCH

Today in Jita, I witnessed a battle between outlaws of sorts. One was destroyed and podded, I immediately headed toward his corpse to pick it up for our clone body return service. His enemies beat me to it. I felt bad for him. I would have seen to a dignified end to his body. I doubt if his enemies will. This leads me to this offer: Those who have a collection of bodies are welcome to donate them to our service. We will never sell them and we will always try to return them to their original owners if they so desire. Our HQ is in Korama.

Pfeils Goodman
Posted - 2011.09.02 11:55:00 - [252]
 

I am deeply saddened Ston. Unless we meet during the week my gift will never truly be fulfilled in in the sense that I intended.

You have been on a crusade for many months to find a decent pilot who is kind and can be trusted. I offer you a chance to extend the ultimate in trust and you opt to run and hide from it.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:43:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: Ston Momaki on 02/09/2011 13:50:56
Ms. Goodman,
I will extend my trust toward you. I only wish to avoid violence.
Where shall we meet? Piekura? I'll make my way there and watch for you.
I will be unarmed, will you?

(edit) I have tested many pilots on this point Ms. Goodman. Most will kill if they have the advantage. I sincerely hope that you are as unique a person as you seem to be and that you will choose non-violence. That would be most delightful and uplifting. Either way, The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.

Pfeils Goodman
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:38:00 - [254]
 

Ston

I can think of no place more appropriate than the center of PIekura's sun, where you gave your gift to me.

Look for me to be in-system.


Manwe Todako
Minmatar
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.02 20:09:00 - [255]
 

Ms. Goodman,
Ston is an explorer; an explorer of people. He is committed to non-violence and often takes great risks just to talk to people. I simply ask you to not harm him, fire upon him, or any such thing. He is a good friend and an adopted brother of my tribe. Thank you.

Pfeils Goodman
Posted - 2011.09.02 23:52:00 - [256]
 

Manwe

I would very much like to meet you as well before the week is up.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:17:00 - [257]
 

A FASCINATING NON-SEQUITUR

I have run across an interesting loop of reasoning in a discussion with a Khanid and a couple Amarrians. The closed loop circular reasoning very simply stated can be expressed in a couple ways. Here are some examples:
1. To understand our ways is to agree with them.
2. If you are critical of us, you must not understand us.
3. No informed view will be contrary to our view.
4. No one else has the facts like we do, so contrary views are without basis in fact.
5. Etc
This kind of non-sequitur is very hard to counter in that it is like a conspiracy theory of sorts. You can fit anything in it you want. The more I interact with these individuals, the more they claim that they do not care about what I am addressing, yet their pitch of argument is sharpening, indicating that the opposite is true. I have also sharpened the pitch of my own words to call out what I can in the way of emotion. I believe that there is more to the heart of these individuals than what has been pressed upon them by their leaders, traditions, and religion. When a person thinks that he or she believes something, but really doesn't in their heart of hearts, pressing them on the subject usually generates defensiveness. Eventually, that defensiveness will turn to insult. This is very informative for me as I seek to understand the nature of these cultures. My study of their history and even their self-identifications in canon, have shown a recalcitrance to change in belief. This may be a fruitless endeavor, but I am not quite convinced of that yet.

AND...

I have chosen to take a risk that I have taken many times before and many times before have been destroyed and/or podded. The individual who has declared war upon the Disciples of Ston has made no promises of any kind that she will not attack or kill me and so I am taking a risk by being willing to speak with her again face to face, figuratively speaking. This is iconic Disciple work, though, so it is hard to pass up. I want to thank many friends for their concern and their offers of protection. These mean a great deal and they reflect upon the integrity of your hearts, my brothers. Peace be to you and please do not worry about me. There may come a day in our work, when we will need your restrained power and skill. At that time, we will not hesitate to call on you for help.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Thgil Goldcore
Amarr
Robonia
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:52:00 - [258]
 

Ston, lets be honest with ourselves here...

We have been nothing but strait-forward with you this entire time. I have expressed my beliefs, why I believe the way I do, and what it means to me. Although my passion has occasionally flared, I have tried to do my best to reason with you while being polite enough. I have been met with personal attacks with no basis to the issue at hand and gross generalizations which would be insulting to anyone, be they Amarr or any other race.

Yet here you are proclaiming that our hearts are closed and that we live in our own twisted world apart from morality and justice. You claim we wont open our hearts and understand what wisdom you wish to share, but are completely unwilling to simply respond or listen to what WE wish to share. Basically you have said nothing but 'shut up and listen to me.' Can you honestly accuse us of your own crimes?

1: You say that we say that in order to understand us you must agree with us. I think that you had said in our discussion that if I understood freedom that I would agree with you... Clearly there is something backwards about your first point.

2: You say that if your critical of us that you must not understand us. No, you must understand us in order to be critical. Otherwise your being critical on the basis of ignorance.

3: you say that no informed view will be contrary to our view. While I believe I am doing the work of God, from whom all truth rises, I have fully admitted that there may be people who are flawed bringing this word to light. But like point 2, ignorance is no position to base an argument.

4: You say that we believe that we are the only ones who are well informed. Considering all the crap we deal with on a daily basis, its not hard to see where this aura comes from. However since in my post my original goal was to get information I was clearly lacking, perhaps this isn't entirely true is it? I did not turn it to the debate it is now, nor was it my intention at any time to do so. Yes, when you put someone on the defensive they will attempt to argue from a point of strength.

I don't think your a bad person Ston. Despite some things I find completely disagreeable I find that your ultimate goal to seek peace is an honorable one. I know you could have been so much more than you have been.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.03 03:32:00 - [259]
 

THANKS MS. GOODMAN FOR YOUR GIFT

Although I am so tired I can hardly keep my eyes open, I had to reflect just a little on my meeting tonight in the Piekura stellar core with Ms. Goodman. No weapons were fired. I will want to say more about it later, but for now: The Disciples of Ston Bid You Peace.

AND

Ms. Goldcore,
Feel free to quote me directly all you want, but your paraphrasing is revealing more about you than it is about me. I will leave this up to you. If you wish to continue this discussion, repost on the new IGS that is coming online on Monday. If not, do not post. I cannot promise that I will confine the discussion to your parameters. Every capsuleer chooses his or her public identity when we enter training. This goes with us as long as we are capsuleers and it identifies us to others. The only way to change that is to cease to be a capsuleer. I cannot help but relate to you, at least in part, on that basis. I am Achura and I cannot help that. I will be that in my interactions with you and I will not try to deny it.

Too sleepy to think anymore.

Good dreams to you.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Thgil Goldcore
Amarr
Robonia
Posted - 2011.09.03 04:03:00 - [260]
 

If you prefer me not to condense a few long pages of writing on your tab here I certainly can. May take 5 or 6 posts to fully do so... but... It may be easier for those concerned simply to read the forum itself since its just 2 clicks away... still if you prefer some examples I can give some.

You have accused me of being a traitor while misquoting the Empress.

Originally by: Ston Momaki
"Out there on the event horizon, a new age races toward us, and it is approaching fast. The Lord in his infinite grace has instructed me that the chains that fetter us will no longer be necessary in this new age of light and reason, neither the chains of hatred that restrain our minds nor the chains of indenture that restrain those less fortunate than ourselves." Jamyl I

Ms. Goldcore, would you commit treason against your Empress? Wouldn't you wish to honor the wishes of your Empress for the future of your culture? Why not be an example of one who leads in the accomplishment of her glorious vision? Certainly if you have in your possession any from the ninth generation on, you had better free them post haste. And for the rest, your Empress expressed a totality of freedom for all as an expression of breaking chains of hatred and the restraints of mind to usher an age of reason where the grace of God is the focus. Surely, you respect your Empress, don't you? She seemed to value freedom.


You go back on your own words just a post after you say them

Originally by: Ston Momaki
If you wish to push the agenda of understanding freedom, prepare for the agenda of abolition to be pushed right along with it. They cannot and shall not be separated.

Originally by: Ston Momaki
Ms Goldcore, let me save you some time. I am not trying to draw any logical lines between your intellectual understanding of freedom and the freeing of slaves.


You say I have a messiah complex... I don't have my own sudo-religion named after myself.
Originally by: Ston Momaki
Does Amarrian religious culture inculcate the same messiah complex in all of its slave holders as it has in you, Ms. Goldcore? Are you such the master race?


Originally by: Ston Momaki
THE TIME HAS COME FOR ABOLITION

Originally by: Ston Momaki
Who is yelling?



So yes, I can pull up direct posts if you prefer me to. What is said has been said in a public place for all to hear. Out of respect, I didn't feel the need to flood your thread with miles and miles of quotes. I can continue to do so if you would like but sadly the character limit is a little taxing for something most people would say TL;DR.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:14:00 - [261]
 

CONTROVERSIAL BUT EFFECTIVE

At the beginning of the work of the Disciples of Ston, we used the method of petty theft to provoke pilots into conversation about what motivates and empowers the capsuleers of this cluster. This method was very effective. We learned a great deal. When a person is angry, at a thief for example, they tend to express what might normally be repressed underneath the surface. We were able to engage in many hours of revealing conversations, many of which are logged here on this thread and on Manwe's thread. Over time, we also came to realize that our method also hastened the pulling of the trigger. While we often said that the violence committed against us was an absorption of violence that might have been committed against others, it was still violence.

That method was always on the edge of my comfort. Since then, I have abandoned that method. I no longer wish to hasten the pulling of the trigger if I can help it. We have since used science and exploration as doors and have used other means, particularly this forum to do our work. We still use provocation and it is still effective. However, whenever one uses the primal emotions of a person to gain knowledge, there is a risk. The Achura within me is uncomfortable at times with the level of provocation that I use. Time in introspection is telling me to watch my method even more carefully. Perhaps I owe Ms. Goldcore an apology. (I am sure some of you will weigh in on this. Please do.)

NEWS FROM THE "WAR"

The interaction with Ms. Goodman last night could only be described as perfectly befitting a Disciple of Ston. Ms. Goodman was right on target when she said that we are seeking pilots who will restrain from violence not out of fear of punishment from Concord, but because they have the inner quality of restraint. She played me well, but somehow I was happy to be played in this situation. In a war dec one can both legally destroy the ship and the pod. Neither happened. I wonder if this scenario has ever happened before in this cluster. One armed ship and one unarmed ship from corporations in a state of war and no shot fired. The conversation was civil and philosophical. It was, indeed a gift, Ms. Goodman. I thank you.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.


Edaine Numenor
Gallente
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:16:00 - [262]
 

I don't have my own sudo-religion named after myself.
tehehehehe (Edaine snickers under his breath at Ston. Inside joke understood)

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:21:00 - [263]
 

Edaine, you are not nice

Manwe Todako
Minmatar
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.05 01:05:00 - [264]
 

Regarding the opinion you asked me about Ston... Do you remember some time ago, you logged and interaction with a pilot in Piekura. I believe the conversation went on for about 45 minutes. During that time you were collecting data and making notes to log later. These were know only to you and not your subject. The current experiment you are conducting is a longer version. Take notes, collect data but wait and process it later and communicate your results then rather than now. I have seen some of your data and it looks exactly like the Piekura experiment only on a larger basis with a much larger data field. What I would like to see you do is to change your variable in another experiment to see if there are any constants.

I saw Edaine today in Rens. You will never guess, or maybe you will.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.05 02:29:00 - [265]
 

DISCIPLES OF STON PERFORM FIRST CREMATION RITES TODAY

DSTON clone body return service collected three bodies today for return. We also conducted our first ceremonial cremation. A Gallente pilot requested that we determine the final disposition of his body as we felt appropriate. There was a very lonely dignity to the ceremony especially compared to the way that most of these bodies end up floating about spaceship traffic or sold as biomass or worse. It was a very "human" experience. I was pleased that we were given permission to do this. Perhaps others may take this option as well. O yes, the method of cremation was to bring the body to a stellar core. I can think of no more appropriate disposition of a capsuleer body than literally among the stars.

Thank you Manwe for the exercise of discretion concerning that matter of which we spoke. Hopefully no damage was done.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.05 18:08:00 - [266]
 

"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first." (Goenka)

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.07 13:01:00 - [267]
 

The Disciples of Ston are now posting on the new forum here.


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