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Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:21:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Ston Momaki on 23/08/2011 19:50:34
Edited by: Ston Momaki on 23/08/2011 19:49:24
Original first entry: "I am Caldari, but I am Achura and I am a thief. I am an unskilled thief. While others train skills and strive for greatness or proficiency, I train no skills nor do I need to. I steal, plundering the hard work of others. I steel because I wish to discover your secrets; the secret of who you are. Despise me and reveal yourself! Destroy me, there is no loss for I return just as before. Back to steal again."

Edit: I decided it was time to take a look at the first entry again and ask the question, "Has this work changed me so that I no longer am what I was when I began?" The short answer is yes. It has been a long time since I have stolen anything. I have lost my taste for doing anything that hastens the pulling of the trigger, even when I am absorbing violence that would have been for someone else. Petty theft was and still is a very effective means into the psyche of the capsuleer. However, I wish to find other methods to do the same.

Will I ever use that method again? Perhaps, if the situation presents itself as the very best means to accomplish a good. But, I will not seek it. It is as if the the Achura root within is seeking to break forth and find its native soil. A soil of peace, free from provocation, violence, and greed.

It is hard to explain, but I am feeling more and more human and less at home in the false immortality of the capsuleer cycle.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Marenteius
Caldari
Red Coats
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:40:00 - [2]
 

I'll just ask the question on everyones mind... what exactly have you even stolen to claim to be a thief?

Driselle
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:48:00 - [3]
 

Probably a single unit of Veldspar out of one of my cans.

Valerie Valate
Amarr
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:48:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Marenteius
I'll just ask the question on everyones mind... what exactly have you even stolen to claim to be a thief?


He's definitely stolen the time it took you to read this thread, I think.

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.19 20:38:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Valerie Valate
Originally by: Marenteius
I'll just ask the question on everyones mind... what exactly have you even stolen to claim to be a thief?


He's definitely stolen the time it took you to read this thread, I think.


Yeah that's a minute I'll never get back.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.04.19 22:35:00 - [6]
 

I want the time he stole from me to look at and read this thread back NOW! Evil or Very Mad



Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.20 00:06:00 - [7]
 

Can't say I don't like an Achur breaking out of the "Duty and Honor! For The State!!" frame of mind.

Keep it up, brother.

Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
Posted - 2011.04.20 05:58:00 - [8]
 

Is this about that "The Secret" book? Confused

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.20 07:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ston Momaki
I am Caldari, but I am Achura and I am a thief. I am an unskilled thief. While others train skills and strive for greatness or proficiency, I train no skills nor do I need to. I steal, plundering the hard work of others. I steel because I wish to discover your secrets; the secret of who you are. Despise me and reveal yourself! Destroy me, there is no loss for I return just as before. Back to steal again.


Tell me the secret of steel!

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.04.20 17:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Boma Airaken
Can't say I don't like an Achur breaking out of the "Duty and Honor! For The State!!" frame of mind.


Would you have any problem with the former, "duty and honor," if it weren't for the latter?

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.21 00:50:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Can't say I don't like an Achur breaking out of the "Duty and Honor! For The State!!" frame of mind.


Would you have any problem with the former, "duty and honor," if it weren't for the latter?


Oh come on. First, take a look at the content of the thread we are posting in here Aria. Second, I am pretty sure you wouldn't have to try too hard to answer that question yourself.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.04.21 03:17:00 - [12]
 

I'm just trying to get a clear picture, Boma. You may recall that I, though a pirate, am also a bit of a "law and order" type-- I like to see strong, practical structures underpinning society, even in a society of criminals like myself.

It seems as though what you are praising here is the capsuleer equivalent of a petty thief, and for no other reason than because he breaks with the expectations of a society you desire to protect, yes?

... So, yes, I'm a little puzzled, and trying to get a sense of your stance.

Am I simply taking this all too seriously?

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.21 03:25:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Boma Airaken on 21/04/2011 03:27:19
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
I'm just trying to get a clear picture, Boma. You may recall that I, though a pirate, am also a bit of a "law and order" type-- I like to see strong, practical structures underpinning society, even in a society of criminals like myself.

It seems as though what you are praising here is the capsuleer equivalent of a petty thief, and for no other reason than because he breaks with the expectations of a society you desire to protect, yes?

... So, yes, I'm a little puzzled, and trying to get a sense of your stance.

Am I simply taking this all too seriously?


Yes, I think you are taking this a bit too seriously. In my opinion an Achur petty criminal is of more value to the Achur as a whole than one that embraces their State overlords with fervor.

Then of course he says he is stealing to obtain secrets, which is as Achur as can be in my opinion.

But in the context of this thread, and its obvious ridiculousness, I was sort of just talking out of my ass to join the party.

And if I might add, you look as stunning as ever.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.04.21 03:49:00 - [14]
 

Mm. Well, I suppose I'll just let it lie, then. Except ...

Originally by: Boma Airaken
Then of course he says he is stealing to obtain secrets, which is as Achur as can be in my opinion.


Really? I ... must admit, I'm sort of puzzled by this. We place a high value on curiosity and a desire to learn, but I've never had any sense that theft made up even ... well, really a fraction of what we considered respectable.

Research, yes; mysticism and astrology, yes; rigorous training and self-discovery, yes.

Theft?

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.21 04:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Mm. Well, I suppose I'll just let it lie, then. Except ...

Originally by: Boma Airaken
Then of course he says he is stealing to obtain secrets, which is as Achur as can be in my opinion.


Really? I ... must admit, I'm sort of puzzled by this. We place a high value on curiosity and a desire to learn, but I've never had any sense that theft made up even ... well, really a fraction of what we considered respectable.

Research, yes; mysticism and astrology, yes; rigorous training and self-discovery, yes.

Theft?


Means to an end?

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.04.21 04:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Boma Airaken
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Theft?
Means to an end?


If understanding is the aim, what worthwhile end does it serve?

The kind of knowledge one steals is usually the kind that serves as a tool, rather than an aid to achieving any greater understanding. In other words, it's just another play for power-- and one that every civilization in the cluster denounces, at least when practiced by its own people upon each other.

It's much about the games we play, not so much about seeing what lies behind them. Information of this kind is like wealth, stolen or otherwise: a tool, but also a distraction.

... If we make understanding our goal, anyway.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.21 05:14:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Theft?
Means to an end?


If understanding is the aim, what worthwhile end does it serve?

The kind of knowledge one steals is usually the kind that serves as a tool, rather than an aid to achieving any greater understanding. In other words, it's just another play for power-- and one that every civilization in the cluster denounces, at least when practiced by its own people upon each other.

It's much about the games we play, not so much about seeing what lies behind them. Information of this kind is like wealth, stolen or otherwise: a tool, but also a distraction.

... If we make understanding our goal, anyway.


If the end is understanding something, and you need to hold it to understand it, and someone won't let you, there is only one course of action left on the table.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.04.21 05:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Boma Airaken
If the end is understanding something, and you need to hold it to understand it, and someone won't let you, there is only one course of action left on the table.


... That is to say, "Offer something in exchange?" "Request schematics?"

"Be patient?"

I'm not saying that theft is never the correct course of action (pirate, hello). I'm saying that encouraging it-- putting it forth as, what, an admirable example of Achur behavior?

It's absurd, Boma. Theft is a means to an end, yes, but not a means we should probably encourage over-much unless we want to become famed, not as thoughtful seekers, but as untrustworthy sneaks.

We do not need to understand every individual thing in order for the seeker's path to be worthwhile. In some cases, you may be right, but it's nevertheless not something you actually want to encourage if you want a workable society.

It's a bit like murder, that way.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.21 06:19:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Boma Airaken
If the end is understanding something, and you need to hold it to understand it, and someone won't let you, there is only one course of action left on the table.


... That is to say, "Offer something in exchange?" "Request schematics?"

"Be patient?"

I'm not saying that theft is never the correct course of action (pirate, hello). I'm saying that encouraging it-- putting it forth as, what, an admirable example of Achur behavior?

It's absurd, Boma. Theft is a means to an end, yes, but not a means we should probably encourage over-much unless we want to become famed, not as thoughtful seekers, but as untrustworthy sneaks.

We do not need to understand every individual thing in order for the seeker's path to be worthwhile. In some cases, you may be right, but it's nevertheless not something you actually want to encourage if you want a workable society.

It's a bit like murder, that way.


I am glad we can agree.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.04.22 15:29:00 - [20]
 

I have found your musings interesting, my freinds, but you do not understand the secrets I am after. The greatest secrets of the universe lie within the hearts of men and women. My thefts are of little profit to me in material wealth, but they teach me a great deal about the people from whom I steal. What you value is revealed when it is teken from you. I look for unsecured containers where the person is present to see how they will react. Do they value life more than their goods. Will they kill a thief without warning or with so much as any consideration? Will they try to dissuade the thief from going through with it? Cloning has impacted our view of life so very radically both for capsuleers and for non-capsuleers. What is at the core of our hearts? These are the mysteries and secrets I seek. There are no skills to train for this. I merely offer a provocation for you to kill me. How will you respond? What will it reveal about you? One recent interaction went like this: "keep back dude"..."Close enough"... "That's what happens when you don't listen..." What has happened to the human race?

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.04.22 17:06:00 - [21]
 

Ah! Now, this starts to sound a bit more interesting, now that you've laid it out in more concrete terms. As a note, what you are investigating is not the attitude of the "human," so much as of the capsuleer/infomorph class (or subspecies, or outright species, or possibly kingdom, depending on how you draw your lines).

Do keep us informed of your thoughts on this subject, won't you?

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.04.22 19:47:00 - [22]
 

I was preparing to despair until this last run. I ran across a miner taking large quantities of scrodite and Perox and loading into an unsecured can. I contacted the pilot indicating to him that I intended to take a quantity of what was his because I "needed it more than he did." I proceeded to take one small load (120m3) and then another. He asked if I would like to lose my ship. I replied, "Yes, if it helps you keep your soul?" He then asked "Do you need money?" I said "no" and then said that I would take one more load. He alowed me to do so without any agression. This is a new and unexpected twist in my research. I must ponder this.

Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2011.04.22 20:01:00 - [23]
 

Stealing? I don't understand the concept. What's that? How can somebody own something? All you do in life is borrow some things. You have to return them earlier or later anyway.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.04.22 20:13:00 - [24]
 

Some of you have mentioned the issue of what stealing does to others in the way of encouraging them to do the same. I believe I have just made such an observation. My small ship is only able to haul very small amounts and this is a great advantage, because I need to return to a can several times often before I am even noticed. There was another miner in the area of this can who was not the owner. Between my third and fourth trip to the can, he used his large ship to empty the other pilot's can. Before he saw me stealing, he seemed content to mind his own business and mine. Hmm.?

Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:45:00 - [25]
 

If you want to steal something do it efficient. To haul away 120 qm ores is not worth the effort of flying to the can and back. If you do the same with a probe you haul away over 400 qm ore with one flight. A small industrial is even cheaper than that because you don't need any modules fitted and you can easily haul 4000+ qm with one flight.

Think about that. Optimize your work.

But it's not stealing if you take something that is belonging to everyone anyway. Like stuff in space. I personally could open fire in a case like that but not because I think I'm in a superior moral position but just because CONCORD allows me to fire.

Means I often fall asleep if I do boring stuff in space and my head hits the trigger. In the moment the CONCORD warning disappears regrettable weapon malfunctions may occur and the autocannons open fire. Before I'm aware what's happening I often enough just can salvage the wreckage of the "stealing" ship to my biggest regrets.

No. I don't believe in the existence of stealing. Property is theft from the community so theft is property. Stuff in space is allmende, it belongs to the one who gets it first or to the one who survives the battle about the question who was the first.

Autocannons are fun.

Edaine Numenor
Gallente
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.04.25 01:45:00 - [26]
 

Reply to last post: I am not seeking to be an efficient thief for I seek not material profit in it. I seek knowledge.
Insight: As much as I am despised as a thief, I find that other clones seem to despise those I steal from as if they deserved it. The lesson that people seek to learn is how to guard their goods from theft, but that isn't the main lesson perhaps to learn. When something is taken from us, we discover far more of what is really inside us other than our carelessness over "our things."

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.04.25 02:18:00 - [27]
 

apologies for the last post by one Edaine Numenor. That was actually me. There must have a computer glitch or something. I think it is fixed now. I would hate for another man to take the blame for anything I have said. Sorry, Mr. Numenor.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.04.25 02:35:00 - [28]
 

I want the girl who stole something precious and broke something special, from me to......

well I dont know. Despite her stealing ways she made me happy. So maybe come back for a while, let her know all is forgiven.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.04.25 04:15:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ston Momaki
apologies for the last post by one Edaine Numenor. That was actually me. There must have a computer glitch or something. I think it is fixed now. I would hate for another man to take the blame for anything I have said. Sorry, Mr. Numenor.


I bet that stung a bit once you realized what happened.

Tarac Nor
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.04.25 05:00:00 - [30]
 

Thieves in my New Eden! What is this madness!


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