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Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.19 11:27:00 - [1]

CCP Zinfandel will be talking to the CSM for an hour about CCP's marketing efforts related to EVE. What advice would you want us to give him about seducing unsuspecting gamers into paying for the privilege of being podded? And what honey could he set out to lure back the elusive bittervet?

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.19 11:54:00 - [2]

EVE evolves, other gameworlds are static

EVE player base is 80% mature, with majority of the player base possessing college education and above. A lot of students play eve in their spare time, a lot of adult males enjoy eve after work. This means that mental capacities of the players are above average, enemies are more intelligent and game is more challenging.

It means that EVE community is unique, intelligent, friendly, sarcastic, vicious, savage. But not dull, reserved, grinding, lone.

Finally there is no end game, over 5 years time you become more valuable and not loose purpose. Over that time the challenge remains in the game, since regardless of skill points and equipment, the maximum multiplier is never above 400%. And the most exquisite setups are easy to counter. Eve is a game of cooperation, not skill and item grinding.

Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2011.04.19 12:07:00 - [3]

If you are good enough, you don't have to pay IRL

Posted - 2011.04.19 13:17:00 - [4]

Edited by: BlankStare on 19/04/2011 13:22:38
Edit: Multiple posting as it told me I was going too fast :/

Posted - 2011.04.19 13:19:00 - [5]

Edited by: BlankStare on 19/04/2011 13:23:13
Edit: As above. The proper post is below this one.

Posted - 2011.04.19 13:22:00 - [6]


Extending GalNet into the real world internet, as was done with the now disappeared Duvolle Labs website, would not only make the depth and flavour of EVE's lore more accessible to players, it would also open the world to those who may not otherwise encounter it.

Marconus Orion
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.04.19 13:33:00 - [7]

Hire a studio to do a serious of five minute episodes on Cartoon Network and/or Sci-fi channel like Clone Wars.

Posted - 2011.04.19 13:40:00 - [8]

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Hire a studio to do a serious of five minute episodes on Cartoon Network and/or Sci-fi channel like Clone Wars.

Made in-game.

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:14:00 - [9]

eve will market better if bra-only can be reintroduced, only in a limited fashion

go go bars will attract a lot of people in incarna, naked bodies pay to see

Guilliman R
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:33:00 - [10]

Edited by: Guilliman R on 19/04/2011 15:33:50

I really don't want to sound bitter, but a good start would be to have functioning content and proper dev cycles at older content.

This way you can get player's commenting on the game in a positive manner rather then moaning cous half of the released content is broker or unfinished.

For me, I feel ashamed to spend time/money on this game in it's current state. That's hardly good advertising. If someone asks me how eve is, I'll tell them the truth and 9/10 times they wont even want to try. :/

So yeah, good marketing can only come when the management takes off in a good direction for a change. Suckering in people with empty promises and lying about working game content isn't the smartest thing to do.

Tamir Lenk
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.19 16:11:00 - [11]

CCP needs to revise its SEO and web marketing approach. I get "Try EVE" ads on all sorts of web sites, obviously picking me up as a visitor to this site, etc. Preaching to the choir is less than ideal as a marketing strategy.

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.19 16:30:00 - [12]

Originally by: Marconus Orion
Hire a studio to do a serious of five minute episodes on Cartoon Network and/or Sci-fi channel like Clone Wars.

Full 20 minute eps using carbon based char rendering like we saw so much of at Fan Fest, in game rendering of space battles. But the key is this: BASE THE STORIES OFF EVE'S HISTORY. Not the in game fluff, I mean the main selling point of the game: player generated drama in 0.0

You have like 7 years worth of material to draw from. Animate the great northern war I keep hearing about that spawned BoB+the NC. Bring to life the contrast of BoB and ASCN, and the epic conflict that saw the first titans created and destroyed. Tell the world of how Mercenary Coalition brought the dagger right to the neck of the NC. Draw viewers in to the circumstances around the betrayal and disbanding of BoB and the rise of Goonswarm. You’d have to adapt some things to bring everything into the “world” of EVE but the characters and the stories are right there and more material is being created every day!

Most of the players involved at the big scale are still around or at least alive. I have no doubt they’d be willing to sit down to interviews or otherwise help fill in the gaps for the writers to help promote the game (and their own legend). You might get the occasional objection of people not liking how they’re portrayed but I suspect anything more serious than whining would be infrequent if not singular. Heros, villains, who cares we’re on TV! Plus EVE lends itself to the kind of writing and character development where the distinction of good guys vs bad guys isn’t always so clear...

Don’t even worry about putting it on actual TV yet. Distribute online, via a site and/or YouTube. The existing EVE community will be all over each new episode like a fat girl on cake allowing you to show an existing audience which will help get the show on other platforms.

You want to talk competitive advantage. NO OTHER MMO IS DOING THIS. No other MMO really *could* do this in a meaningful way because they don’t have the single shard mature universe CCP has developed. Put the effort into making it look as good as Clear Skies if not better using the engine you’re using for Incarna, and we will soon stop measuring your customer base in hundreds of thousands. We’ll start talking millions.

Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:02:00 - [13]

Originally by: Guilliman R
I really don't want to sound bitter, but a good start would be to have functioning content and proper dev cycles at older content.

When I suggest Eve to friends, I often get the "I've heard [insert threadnought topic] about Eve, why would I pay for that?" It would be nice to say "they fixed that!" more often when replying to the bad press Eve has had.

To be clear, Eve has some trouble with word of mouth, other marketing is kinda silly until CCP does something to fix its image in the gaming community.

Ways to do this:

1. In-game videos that include elements of the game that people have complained about and CCP has fixed.

2. In-game videos of fleet fights running without lag handling 800+ combatants. That visual with a "in game footage" should carry a lot of weight. It was what drew me back to the game after its rocky start.

Really, a lot of bitter old vets get focused on the "but I want to be able to have 2000+ involved in a fight" and forget that new players will likely not be involved in this before they are hooked by the amazing stuff earlier on. Basically, Eve needs to showcase how well it does work and put that in front of people who were turned off from the game by something they heard years ago.

For all the bitter old vet talk, they are hooked and obviously expect things to get better or they wouldn't still be playing. The wonders that have all of us hooked need to be broadcast to potential new players. To counter complaints about the extreme cases that are experienced later in the game.

Herschel Yamamoto
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:30:00 - [14]

The best comment I've heard on Eve lately is that it's a bad game that the players make good. Nobody is going to write odes to the mission system, and even the bots get bored mining. But the rise and fall of empires is inherently compelling, as is a great scam or a well-run tourney. Play that up. There's a reason why the Butterfly Effect video was one of our favourites. Stuff like that is just about the only sensible reason to actually play this game.

Also, Eve is an eight year old game with the polish of a beta. If you change that fact, word of mouth will be your friend.

Posted - 2011.04.19 21:52:00 - [15]

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
CCP Zinfandel .....

tell him and CCP to read eve game mails

Posted - 2011.04.19 22:23:00 - [16]

Originally by: Tamir Lenk
CCP needs to revise its SEO and web marketing approach. I get "Try EVE" ads on all sorts of web sites, obviously picking me up as a visitor to this site, etc. Preaching to the choir is less than ideal as a marketing strategy.

This. I get paranoid when eve ads follow me across the internet. It's pretty damn ridiculous too, since I already play.

But most importantly, CCP's marketing needs to realise that game marketing is mostly done by word of mouth. CCP being more attentive to details in releases (i.e. less bugs), iterating on old ignored features and engaging more with the player base here on eve-o would be a great place to start.

Finally, as someone above said, small internet videos of in-game combat from players would be a greatway to attract players. Mining less so, and never ever mention PI or else CCP'll never get another customer.

Posted - 2011.04.20 02:02:00 - [17]

This is an idea that I had about 6 months ago regarding marketing for EVE. I went on a bit of a hiatus so I didn't get around to posting it.

Remake EVE Never Fades shot for shot with the new graphics and models. Change none of the existing scenes and add very little, probably just a few scenes of ships that have been released since that trailer (tier 2 BC's, T3 Cruisers, ect).

EVE Never Fades has always been, and always will be, my favorite trailer and is one of the biggest reasons I starting playing EVE 4 years ago. It is simply majestic, and remaking it with the new graphics will make it so that it does not look remotely out of date. Doing this would most likely be somewhat difficult if CCP was to stay true to the original, as remaking all the circumstances for the scenes would take quite a bit of time, but I believe that the benefits would be well worth it:

Attracting new players: It goes without saying that EVE Never Fades has a certain mistique to it that hooks people. It is probably the single most influential factor in me deciding to try out EVE, and many people I have discussed the trailer with cite that as a big reason for them trying EVE.

Bringing back old players: As stated above, over the years many people have tried EVE and stuck with it just because of that awesome, AWESOME trailer. Bringing it's visuals up to date would more than likely bring many of those people back with the power of a huge nostalgia-gasm.

Saint Kamakazie
Posted - 2011.04.20 03:21:00 - [18]

Bring in new players/Entice back the vets can be done in one fell swoop tbh: Balance the ships we have. Internet spaceship combat drives the game all the way down to the LP farmers, miners, and indies. The fact we have such long-standing ship imbalance really taints everything. Make choosing your ship a real decision and not just "lol gunna fly a ferox tonight, :trollface:."

State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:25:00 - [19]

MMORPG's players are quite easy to retain or make them run away but the easier is to never make them try more than a few minutes.

For the beginner a few things can make him run away fast:

-ship's UI, manoeuvrability


-Progress system:

For the average new player the time invested playing has no positive return.
Like it or not but the learning skills system is painful has hell (learnings were even more stupid).

Some people will reply me with accounts numbers etc, but how many really play de game is a number that no one seems to like talking about.
It's pretty simple, just go there and look at it from time to time.

I've never seen more than a spike of 60K+ (Tranquillity), how many real trials how many alts trial accounts and how many less 6 months and how many 2years + were playing? Wink

In my humble opinion it's the reward(skill progress)/time spent that doesn't retain more players than that and makes every one and his alt/troll/mother say Eve's not about instant gratification blah blah blah, all blah blah.

So there are too many old (+55) guys that never play internet games, too many young (-25) that like instant gratification, and not enough +25/-55 who this game attracts or simply don't like the progress system concept?

Hard to create some marketing process around space ships fleet battles etc and associate those with the rewarding (skills learning) concept, witch is mostly the one that makes players go away in my opinion.

Posted - 2011.04.20 16:02:00 - [20]

Originally by: Swynet
MMORPG's players are quite easy to retain or make them run away but the easier is to never make them try more than a few minutes.

Having played several MMO's myself, I would be inclined to agree with this. If a player has to try more than a few minutes to accomplish something they will most likely give up, even if what they could have accomplished is quite important. New players don't think about the magnitude of a task they could have completed, it boils down to "Did I get something done, or didn't I?" I think the trick is to break things down a bit and take things in baby steps so the player can 'get something done' every few minutes.

Posted - 2011.04.20 16:39:00 - [21]

Ok, great idea for a marketing video, Bold white letters on a black backround saying "We Are Done F*&%ing arround", and a fighters view shot of the most epic space battle ever with thousands of ships and lasers and missiles going everwhere completely lag free.

Posted - 2011.04.21 00:21:00 - [22]

Friendly bump, this topic deserves at least a little more attention that it is getting.

Posted - 2011.04.21 00:59:00 - [23]

What others have said, make a herculean effort to address EVE's many pitfalls in lapsed development, abandon features/etc.

That will lure new players in with a game that the developer still cares about, word of mouth/articles/reviews from people seeing CCP fixed what was wrong or is on a quest to make their product better not just 'more' or 'bigger'. Fix one thing and declare a laundry list of things they are tackling next, then follow through with it and communicate the process/problems.

Old vets will come back if all of the above comes to pass.

If CCP just wants more nubs to fleece then make more 'inspiring' trailers that look great but don't reflect what the game is or what it will be for years to come, if ever.

To sucker bitter vets back string them along with lies about fixing this or that, make a token effort to fix one thing that isn't too hard then scream about it from every mountain top. When that one thing gets done lie about doing more while on a mountain top, then don't do anything else, repeat every year or so while charging down the path of new shiny for nubs to fleece and chasing gaming awards to feed CCP's hubris.

Time Funnel
Posted - 2011.05.02 14:57:00 - [24]

Edited by: Time Funnel on 02/05/2011 15:01:22
Originally by: Bhattran

If CCP just wants more nubs to fleece then make more 'inspiring' trailers that look great but don't reflect what the game is or what it will be for years to come, if ever.

Not sure if you are referring to that most excellent "EVE Forever" video they played at FanFest. It looks great - people see it and want it. They get EVE and find out that planetary combat is still coming soon (tm).

Guess that my point here is that scheduling the hype to correspond with the product releases may be beneficial in establishing a reputation as a game company. As to what the magic formula for this is, I have no idea. But there is probably a way to ensure that you get the product out before disappointment sets in.

I like a tease as much as the next guy but eventually it better deliver or I get very discontent.

Posted - 2011.05.02 15:21:00 - [25]

personally Eve needs a graphic novel...

Do that... and you will get more people into the loor of eve and then more will want to play...

plus CCP should team up with some magna commics and create some made for dvd movies about the history of eve...

There are millions of nerds out there who should be playing eve but dont know/care about it... giving them nerd movies/grahic novels will to this pretty well...

Posted - 2011.05.03 00:44:00 - [26]

More Eve specials on steam. Specials = exposure

Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.03 00:52:00 - [27]

People have been dragging their tongues over swtor peeks since they started developing it. It's been awhile, and they did the same with AoC nd a handful of other MMO's pre-release. Personally, all I see resulting from that is fanaticism that quickly turns into bitter disappointment and eventually those players despise the developers, even before release. The funny thing is, they knew they would have to wait as long as 5 years, from the first press release that development had begun.

Moral: Anyone who wastes that much of their life teasing themselves with sneakpeaks of future content, is bound to be disappointed. It's a given.

So that is generally to be avoided on the development side, unless it is strongly considered that player expectations will be exceeded in both the short and long run. Strangely, SWTOR has had it's share of fanbase drop after complaining bitterly about the wait, yet the remaining community is strong and remains commited despite all this. Even stranger and almost unknown in pre- and post-release MMO's, SWTOR has a fanbase comprised of mostly rational and content individuals. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

AoC at this stage had a pantheon of ex- and current beta players frothing at the mouthes and calling the Dev's all manner of things. They also did a fair job of belittling and derided every positive thinking or optimistic individual who still liked the game. By the time they had finished with their efforts to roll AoC off the edge of a cliff, (one with a long drop to a wet, rocky grave), AoC had all of 1000 active members and fans remaining. I'm not sure how it's doing now.

Something else to be avoided.

A content playerbase goes a long way. Keeping current players happy and maintaining flawless, (or near flawless), content, with little or no bugs and glitches will ensure that they won't drive off potential new players. I don't see why people feel the need to do this, and I generally consider it counterproductive, as an increasing playerbase only ensures that the money will be available to deliver on those promises made by the Dev's. Throwing a wrench into that, only results in lost profits, and fiscal responsibilities that mean less actual quality releases on time.

I should think that was obvious.

That being said, players can and will wait for the delivery of that content. Provided it arrives in a fashion that is neither early nor late, and it is reeased relatively free of bugs, (certainly without game-shattering ones), they will generally be happy. Any bugs should of course be irtoned out within months of release, as this shows the Dev's wish to expedite the process of quickly cleaning up those deficiencies.

I think players harass the Dev's and try to destroy games, because they think it will force the Dev's to do something about it. That's kind of like beating your kids, because you think they'll be better for it. Rediculous.


Let's move on.

Clicky EVE advertisements on the Web are not really working. They do not follow you either, it's just that CCP has paid to have them out there in a big way. I don't have tracking cookies on my PC; I kill them with fire. I still get these Ad's. It's Google.


EVE is an awesome idea, and it's a great game, yet how many players are looking for a WASD alternative to click-click when they start to play?

People like First Person, they can relate to it. EVE controls more resemble an RTS with a single ship you can control, surrounded by a few, scores, or hundreds, even thousands of other ones.

People start asking how many ships they can control at the same time. You tell them one, unless they get two accounts, and then they have to dual box. This is whatr I here in Rookie chat, and generally how I respond.

I've made a lot of accounts and closed more than a few. To date, I think I have accumulated 9-10 accounts, of which only two now are subscribed, and two others are still active for a bit.


Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.03 01:27:00 - [28]

EVE Online Banner Ads remind me of half a dozen other cheap browser game ads, and that's sort of what you expect when you look at them. I've played EVE for over two years and I still expect this. That has to change.

Make sure they know that it is an MMO, not just a browser game, but a fully featured game with content that is fully installable on your PC.

Sure, lots of people like browser games, even I do, but they drift between them and generally stick with one or two. Eventually they may get bored, and look for something else, but most will play them for years. This is not good. It means the vast majority of players have their game, and they're not about to move on.

O Game for instance, looks a lot like EVE in the ads, yet it is a 2D game with no real content. Sorta Pen and Paper-ish. Never played it, but I've met a few fanatics.

EVE has to look different.

It has to stand out.

It has to be recognized.

There are a lot of space games out there, particularly browser based ones.

EVE needs a movie, or more than a book or graphic novel. I never heard of it, until just before I started playing, and I can't recall exactly how I figured out it was a real game.

Browser games lack account security. They also have somewhat different Dev's that do odd things, and have questionable marketing and unknown motives. They are not legitimate businesses, and you have no idea who is running them.

A lot of people shy away from that. They fear for their personal security, and rightly so. The Administrators, and others, on the other side of that equation know where you live, within a certain radius, and gather your personal information. Personally, I don't trust them myself, though I have taken my chances in some limited fashion. It's especially a concern, when yuou are aware that they know how to code and manipulate code, and are capable of doing any number of things which will compromise your personal security.

A legitimate company gets credibility, and it is best to be recognized as such.


Retail releases and advertising. Companies like EA games and others are well recognized and no longer need a retail presence, or much in the way of advertising, and what they do need they have on the internet, or through Console releases. A lot of games stores no longer carry retail versions of PC games, yet, when you walk in, you may see a release on console, and ask if it's available on PC.

Word of mouth.

Bittervet's.. *cough* I'm a bit of one myself. There are many things in EVE that have disappointed me, most of them however, are related to the community and not the game.

The other Bittervet's are what they are for different reasons in many cases, though I'm sure some were driven off by slander, trolling, flaming and all the rest this wonderful community does to itself.

Greatest MMO Community is not an opinion I share, though I will say it is perhaps the largest as it exists within a single shard universe.

We are together, always. This means we have much in the way of competition, and there is only so much of any one thing to go around.

At what point does the community outgrow the game?

It already has.

Fortunately we have wormholes, which allow some players to experience their own success, where there was no room for it before. This is rapidly becoming like any other part of EVE however.

How many systems in Nullsec, are not claimed by an Alliance?

A handful or more at most, and they are not particularly interesting or even available, unless you happen to be interested in joining a coalition.

Without being able to hold space in Nullsec, one of the most profitable ventures in EVE depending where you reside, (The other is wormholes), how can any alliance fund or gather a fleet to contest Nullsec dominance by other alliances?

Unless they have friends willing to give them space and support their growth, they cannot.

What is the most profitable venture in Highsec?


Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.03 02:16:00 - [29]

Passive income.

Players who play browser games and enjoy RTS, generally like these games because progression isn't limited to time played. Income is continuously generated with limited effort, such as with Planetary Interaction.

EVE involves markets and player driven economies, ships are destroyed and lost, and pirating and griefing are the most common of activities for many players. These losses cost ISK, and players are forced to continuously grind missions, mine, and PvE to generate the income to replace these losses. The alternative is PLEX, which cost money and increases gameplay related costs, which sometimes does not fit in the budget.

Parents. Not everyone who plays EVE is 30 something like myself. How many parents like to spend money on a game, or watch their kids spend money on a game, monthly, and potentially for years to come. Possibly for multiple accounts.

Not many I think. Plenty of people are living beyond there means already, and many just don't have the ability to cover these game associated expenses for the sake of entertainment.

EVE allows players to cover this cost, with ISK earned in game, through buying PLEX in a player driven economy. Earning this ISK takes time, a passive income is counterproductive when considered alongside development costs and a monthly fee based game. How to resolve this?

Given that it's a player driven economy, the introduction of more passive income will up the cost of PLEX's and many other things, so that may iron itself out. Regardless, someone has to pay for them initially, so passive income will also result in less PLEX being bought from CCP and introduced into the player driven economy.

PLEX cost more than the monthly fee, though only by a few dollars, and that decreases somewhat with the number purchased.

PLEX is cool. It offers something most MMO's do not: The ability to turn real money into in game currency and wealth. It's also used for charitable donations by players to aid in relief efforts for disaster victims from time-to-time, as organized by CCP.

This is cool. I'm disappointed to say I've never participated in any of these efforts, as they always seem to happen when I'm short on real life money and in-game currency. Not sure how that happens, that the occurences coincide with my being broke, but that's just the way it has worked out so far.

Despite all that, Passive Income and PLEX, and Profit and Development, may not work out to be a practical thing at this time. That is for the Dev's to decide.

I think EVE, and CCP, for the most part is doing well. Every indication is that that is true, but representation and appearances can be deceiving and I do not know if that is the case.

Passive income will encourage new and old players alike.

Highsec is the starting point for all players. It is also the least profitable place to remain in the game, unless you happen to be some Guru of financing, or run you own personal ISK generating website, or both. Regardless of that, there can only be so many guru's, and those following won't be so successful.

EVE is Economy.

As an economy based game, EVE relies on player driven markets and competition in those markets is fierce. Supply and Demand is the key, and often the market is oversupplied in many areas, yet these areas are localized and centered around three primary regions. All these markets rely on local activities, which draw players to locations of interest, as well as accessibility from surrounding regions and Nullsec.

Jita is the primary of these locations, with its market extending to the far reaches of the Forge. Dodixie is a trade hub reliant on mission activities, and Rens thrives on Pirates and Missions alike, as well as access to the Great Wildlands and beyond. Amarr exists on it's own, with close proximity to Jita detracting from its potential worth as a trade hub.

Nowhere else in New Eden serves as well in these capacities and many Systems and Regions are empty.

Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.03 02:50:00 - [30]

This is getting rather lengthy isn't it.

Smile I'll try to make the last part brief.

Highsec needs to see an increase in passive income, to encourage players to join, or stay beyond their 14 day trials, who might otherwise never play or leave within the first few days.

Griefers and others like them tend to ruin the game for many, save themselves, and discourage new players from joining or staying. EVE is accepting of griefers and even encourages them, yet hom many parents, wives, or just generally people, enjoy their spouses or children being subject to name calling, profanity, and similar activities, or even taking part in these activities.

It prolificates.

I was in an E-Uni fleet once for a short time on a roam, and was subject to a cursing, swearing FC which anyone walking past my door could here if they half listened.

Imagine someones Mom listening to that, and tell me how long they would be playing the game after.

That's not the worst of it. I see racial slurs, sexual connotative derogatory references, and multiple other things in chat in most any system in EVE. People read this. It is not complimentary or flattering, sometimes it's quite plainly disgusting or flatly offensive.

EVE does not have moderators for local, and it's not possible to do so. This will discourage many from playing, or allowing others to play the game.

While I do not personally get too offended, or even get offended at all depndent on content and direction, it does happen. Sometimes I fear that my landlords may be disturbed upon listening. Amazingly, that has not happened, or at least they have said nothing about it.

All my voice chat comes through speakers, and I do not wear headphones. They make my ears itch, or sweat, and are generally uncomfortable. Any more than 20 minutes of listening to anything on headphones damages your ears anyway, no matter than volume or quality of the sound.

Think of two teenagers sitting at a PC, while one of them plays EVE. The second is subject to all the first experiences in many ways, and may not share the same casual disregard for the content.


I'm trying to break down all the possible barriers to effective marketing here, and finding there are a lot of them.

We've established that flaming and trolling turns people off. I think that's a big one.

This is not PvP. It's person vs. person, and it usually results in one side being disuaded from continuing to play. That's what happens when you actively work to disrupt someones enjoyment of an activity. It's even against the EULA, despite that it's not monitored, watched, or otherwise dealt with in any real fashion.

When a playerbase is comprised 80% of people who enjoy bullying and pushing around other people, it is rather hard to remind them that it is not an acceptable activity.

The same applies to botters. Generally, the two groups are comprised of the same or like individuals. Hackers and the like are no different.

What do they, (Hackers in FPS or other games), enjoy most?

Deriding other players for their incompetence or lack of effectiveness.

See the common trend?

Anyway, that's not really what we're here about, and is mostly a seperate issue, though it does affect the outcome of any marketing scheme.


Every Developer needs integrity, to see the fruition of their ideas accepted by the common whole. Marketing is typically targeted, and the choice in how it is targeted results in the type of customer it draws.

What is the largest customer base?

EVE's playerbase is not growing, or accelerating in growth. It is stagnating, as players make their way to other things, and every step forward, sees an increasing number of losses, yet their are more active players at any given time, than I remember there being two years ago.

What's the reason for this? Are they bot's, or real players, or just multiple account's, or both? The latter I think, is true.

Why do people quit?

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