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Kel hound
Posted - 2011.04.19 02:41:00 - [1]
 

This is in response to the CSM 6 April 2011 - QA Session, specifically: 01:07:34 Ė Thoughts on fixing Mining and PVE so it isnít boring.

While I did not attend the Q/A I did listen to the "official" audio file. While no hard ideas were thrown around at the QA session CSM Mittens did ask for suggestions. More or less.
(CSM QA thread can be found here)

First let me preface this by saying Im a new player. I reactivated my old old trial account when I heard EVE had gotten a UI update and since then I've spent about 4 or 5 months running mission. I don't mine space-rocks, I don't build stuff, I shoot mission rats and that's about it.


My biggest complaint about missions and mission rats would have to be how hands off it feels. While Im now onto the more profitable L4's, when I was running L3's I was doing them with a cap-stable Myrmidon armor tank. All I had to do was warp into the mission hub, get everyone's attention and launch my drones. After that next to no input was required from me. I checked to make sure my drones were safe and that my tank was stable and that was it. If something went wrong I recalled my drones and/or warped out, depending how far down ****-creek things were. L4's with a battleship are not much better. I deliberately moved to a cap-unstable tank if only so I would have to flick a module on and off every now and then.

My second biggest complaint is how stupid and numerous mission rats are. While yes, it does feel awesome to be tanking 20 guys at once it also feels very silly after a while. I mean that last Guristas pirate is either really stupid or really brave. I've killed off all his buddy's but gosh-darn-it if he keeps shooting me he MIGHT just get me.



So that's what I think is wrong with missions, what would I do to fix it?
Personally, less is more. Sleeper and Incursion AI have proven that rats in EVE can be more intelligent than they currently are. I would rather fight fewer, but smarter rats than a massive blob of kindergarten drop-outs.

I'd like to move out to nulsec some time in the future but I know I am learning some very bad habits from fighting rats. EVE is a game with a massive pvp focus and in my opinion the pve content should be doing a better job of teaching the bare-bone basics to new players because right now I don't think its teaching anything. Im not asking for incursion levels of smart, just something that can keep things interesting.

Tarasina
Posted - 2011.04.20 06:36:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Kel hound



I've killed off all his buddy's but gosh-darn-it if he keeps shooting me he MIGHT just get me.

I would rather fight fewer, but smarter rats than a massive blob of kindergarten drop-outs.


Keep it up, I lolled hard...and what you say is true.

Just ridiculous, the way missions are set up.

Massmurderer Online, anyone? =)

General Trajan
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.26 18:29:00 - [3]
 

leave them just the way they are: a boring grind.

incursions are fun to do and should be the key, but their needs to be more of them at one time in high sec areas. i suggest two active incursions in all 4 empires at the same time at all times. that way more carebear tears (the ones who just cry and wait it out or relocate) and more peeps forced to rise up to clear them out to. they'll learn how to ban together, fit fleet ships and learn the structure. right now their are pretty much 2 main competing fleets (1-aromor and 1-shield) and some folks clamoring to get in them since they are so well organized.

out of that maybe just maybe more will be wanting to venture outside of their high sec mission hubs and be willing to add a little spice in their eve lives.

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2011.04.27 00:35:00 - [4]
 

It really depends what CCP (not the players) wants the l1-l4 missions to be FOR. Easy ISK or 'epic story' of survival and smart fit.

That decision is not easy, they could make AI harder than PvP very easily with a switch and low sec pirating would be just as profitable but then what about the economy for new players in empire?

Even level 5 missions are practically solo ( maybe two accounts same person though) can be done so if you're looking for adventure you have to join a corp that does low/null sec or wormhole stuff and deal with the drama.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.04.27 22:26:00 - [5]
 

Adding sleeper style AI to missions would be a massive balancing job. I would prefer it, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.

If a mission level was done piecemeal, the probable outcome would be that they get added to people's "always decline" list because they would hurt isk/hour (or require effort).

Gallente would scream again because it would be a drone nerf (not insurmountable, but still a nerf)

Ari Chu
Posted - 2011.04.28 03:10:00 - [6]
 

I've always thought that the Sec levels of systems should fluctuate, over time, based upon the number of NPC kills in that system. More NPC kills = True Sec increasing. Less NPC kills = true sec decreasing.

Only problems are the lines between High, Low, and Null sec. I'm cool with allowing systems to flip between high/low and low/null, but there are some important implications that would have to be considered (systems like Jita that have no NPC? Concord response in player SOV systems? etc)

Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.28 04:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ari Chu
I've always thought that the Sec levels of systems should fluctuate, over time, based upon the number of NPC kills in that system. More NPC kills = True Sec increasing. Less NPC kills = true sec decreasing.

Only problems are the lines between High, Low, and Null sec. I'm cool with allowing systems to flip between high/low and low/null, but there are some important implications that would have to be considered (systems like Jita that have no NPC? Concord response in player SOV systems? etc)


I have an idea that is sort of like yours. Truesec can fluctuate, but the static sec status of a system remains static. Motsu for instance could remain a 0.9 system, it's just that it would be 9.5 usually in comparison to one of those added-in tutorial systems (i.e Henebene, Couster, Clacille) usually staying at a 8.6 or around there.

Tarasina
Posted - 2011.04.29 13:56:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 29/04/2011 14:01:20
Sec status change of system will in NO way affect how fun a mission is, only the rewards from the agent.

I'd like to see fewer ships overall in missions but deadlier. And also, if ships "spawn", have them warp in instead of appearing from thin air.
Beltrats can do this, why not missionrats?

More escort-missions and the like where we have to defend a ship from destruction or some structure. Maybe even introduce group play into it. Say if NPCs come in from multiple directions and we can't cover all directions (fast enough). Bring purpose to missions instead of the only purpose being getting out alive.

You could have "defend station", "attack station" type of gameplay, mixed up with NPCs trying to get you etc etc.

Make group-play rewarding. Right now when you mission with someone, the reward is even lower. To promote groupplay, the reward has to go the other way around. I understand that is a problem, especially with consideration to alts. And the fact that missions get easier. Introduce a dynamic "control". Check the ships on grid, depending on shipclass and how many, have certain NPCs spawn in addition to those who are already there.

A frig on grid? Spawn NPC frigs
A cruiser on grid? Spawn more cruisers.
Obviosly, the frig on grid should get the aggro from the frig spawn etc.

This way everyone on the team gets a challenge, something to do that is "fitted" to them.



One way to deal with increased rewards (read: bounties) is to make bounty rewards scale.
1 additional ship on grid? 10% more isk from bounties. Increase it by 10% for every additional ship to a certain limit, let's say 6 ships? After that, no increase. And if NPCs are deadlier, bringing alts in shuttles, mining ships etc should make them think otherwise. Basically, make the missions so hostile that this easy exploitation is out of the question. If you don't shoot at a ship, you don't count (so no cloakies either).

Van Derka
Posted - 2011.05.02 07:36:00 - [9]
 

there have been many and varied suggestions on how to make pve missions and mining for that matter, more interesting... CCP / CSM should be spoiled for choice.

ex. the mission requires you use your pod to enter the first gate. once in the pocket (which is perma scramd) you can select a ship from a special support ship... depending on which ship you select, the next gate will send you to an appropriate rendezvous to complete your mission. A DC in the mission ship in the mission area (like POS force fields) means you stay there and lose the faction fitted frig, or whatever you've chosen.

Just a single example of many many ideas given by the players of EVE which, given a little time with a coder, could be added to the game.

The main problem I see with missioning, is that almost every mission is written up in the survival guides, making missioning as easy as abc. I try to do missions in pvp omni tank fits now, just because it adds a little jeopardy to the mix. If CCP had a more dynamic way of building and naming missions, making the survival guides redundant, that would go half way to making missions less simple.

As for mining... well thats always been a dull game... maybe NPC mining rats should be around to leach those rocks out from under your lasers, so taking out an NPC mining rat can reap you more ore than if you'd mined it yourself...

CCP could go a long way to making the game more interesting...
It seems to me though, that the CEO's of CCP are of the mindset that EVE is their game and if they want something done, they will dictate that it happens (learning skills), and stuff anyone else, 'noone else rides on my roller coaster' sort of attitude... I can imagine the CEO getting on one day and doing his usual thing and getting shot down... nerf that ship that shot me down, that'll sort those @%[email protected]#$$!'s out.


Sigh... maybe we will see something more dynamic and interesting when DUST 514 comes out...


J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.04 15:20:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kel hound
So that's what I think is wrong with missions, what would I do to fix it?
Personally, less is more. Sleeper and Incursion AI have proven that rats in EVE can be more intelligent than they currently are. I would rather fight fewer, but smarter rats than a massive blob of kindergarten drop-outs.


Though I'm only currently running L2's, I too share some of the same feelings as the OP. I haven't gone up against Sleepers or done Incursions yet, but I've heard lots about the AI that seems like a good idea for ALL NPC's. Fewer, smarter opponents would be a welcome change.


 

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