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Jita mcheck
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:04:00 - [241]
 

Be nice to see how often items are used.

How many more ships have been killed with jams fit than damps, disruptors, painters, enhancers?

How many more ships use heavy missiles than blasters?

How many of a given ship hull….(already contained in the Quarterly report)

Are torps ever seen on PvP kills or 99% PvE?

Does CCP have these numbers? Would they provide them to the CSM? To us?

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.05.19 21:39:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 19/05/2011 21:40:22
Quote:
and the reduction in incoming dps is nto comparable to damps or jamming.


I put one of my TDs on a target, cutting his range by half and reducing the DPS he's doing on me to 0. That sounds pretty good to me.

Quote:
Often even bonused ships do not fit many of these modules.


Hey look, someone who's never seen a decently fit Pilgrim/Curse/Arbitrator/Sentinel. And notice that all those ships are capable of things besides tracking disrupting - a typical ECM ship isn't.

Quote:
I would like to see tracking disruption improved and be a viable contender to other forms of e-war


TDs work all the time, on anything in range, and don't even need a bonus to be incredibly effective. I suggest you learn to use them, because I've found the TD on my Curse extremely powerful.

Quote:
Are torps ever seen on PvP kills


... Are you being serious? Or did you mean cruise missiles?

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.21 16:13:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Specifically, at 11 km/s they will catch even Interceptors with MWD's travelling at 5000 m/s or better


And with that sentence, you just proved both myself and Gypsio absolutely right that you are utterly clueless about anything to do with missiles.

Here're a couple of basic facts for you, as you don't seem to know the first thing about cruise missiles or missile damage reduction in general:
1. A cruise missile max skilled trvels over 8km/s from a Raven, and flys for a good 30 seconds. Good luck outrunning that without overheating.
2. Now here's the bit that makes you look like an utter tool: that same Raven firing cruise missiles at the inty is doing all of 12 dps. Yeah, that's so game breaking.

Stop posting about missiles, you know nothing.


Quoted for maximum trollage.

I spent over 2 years flying nothing but Caldari ships and using missiles. I didn't do a lot of PvP I'll grant, but when I did I was using HML's. I never used HAM's, and nobody in any Alliance or Corp I flew with, would ever consider using them. In fact, they made a point of telling people not to use them. Any PvP I did do, was strictly limited to Roam's and small gang PvP, and did not benefit from maximum blobbage which completely removes any need for skill or sensible fitting. In fact, with the Leadership bonuses stacked right, and the number of ships, you're pretty much guaranteed to have ever possible threat countered. No need to worry about velocity, sig, or any other factor. Just click your modules and wait for all the pretty explosions.

I wasn't aware that Cruise missiles could reach 8km/s. Pretty sure I've never seen anything top 5, (and a bit), km/s in any fitting. I never trained Cruise to max though, and never used them much.

I never said anything about dps or game breaking. I was talking about balance, and using a comparative tool. It's been days since I posted that honestly, and I've actually forgotten what point I was trying to make, or why it mattered. Obviously you have too much time on your hands, and too little else to do with it. Personally, I work for a living, and can't be bothered to fill my head up with all this kind of unrealistic nonsense about a fictional game. The math may be easy, but the details only serve one purpose, and that is limited to this little world. Memorizing them is kind of like remembering all the spells in D&D. It has no real use or purpose.


Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.05.21 20:20:00 - [244]
 

Quote:
I never used HAM's, and nobody in any Alliance or Corp I flew with, would ever consider using them. In fact, they made a point of telling people not to use them.


And yet here you are complaining that they're broken. Right. You're totally credible there.
FYI a HAM Drake can push out about 600 consistant dps and has a perfectly workable PVP niché.

Quote:
I wasn't aware that Cruise missiles could reach 8km/s. Pretty sure I've never seen anything top 5, (and a bit), km/s in any fitting.


Caldari BS IV and missile projection IV is enough to have a Raven spewing them out at 7.3km/s, without rigs or implants.

Quote:
I never trained Cruise to max though, and never used them much.


Yeah, it shows.

Quote:
Blah blah blah I'm going to make some pathetic ad honinem attack I've lost completely in whatever debate we had


Here's an idea - if you don't know what you're talking about, and have basically just admitted it, shut up and stay out of game balance threads.
Also there's a big difference between knowing every tiny detail of a game, and knowing the fundamental basics of missiles. You clearly have neither.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 00:35:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
I never used HAM's, and nobody in any Alliance or Corp I flew with, would ever consider using them. In fact, they made a point of telling people not to use them.


And yet here you are complaining that they're broken. Right. You're totally credible there.
FYI a HAM Drake can push out about 600 consistant dps and has a perfectly workable PVP niché.

Quote:
I wasn't aware that Cruise missiles could reach 8km/s. Pretty sure I've never seen anything top 5, (and a bit), km/s in any fitting.


Caldari BS IV and missile projection IV is enough to have a Raven spewing them out at 7.3km/s, without rigs or implants.

Quote:
I never trained Cruise to max though, and never used them much.


Yeah, it shows.

Quote:
Blah blah blah I'm going to make some pathetic ad honinem attack I've lost completely in whatever debate we had


Here's an idea - if you don't know what you're talking about, and have basically just admitted it, shut up and stay out of game balance threads.
Also there's a big difference between knowing every tiny detail of a game, and knowing the fundamental basics of missiles. You clearly have neither.


Well.. All we need to do is paint you green and give you a few warts here and there. You'd be perfect.

I've used HAM's, just not in PvP. I wasn't impressed. Sig Bloom a ship and you'll get consistent DPS, else they're basically just a ~400 DPS, at best, short range missile, good against BC and higher for improved DPS. I found HML's more consistent, better ranged and effective at all levels, which is why I use them. HAM's were nerfed some time ago, and they've been broken ever since, whether you admit it or not.

Using max. or near max skill to determine that something is effective and working properly is just stupid. Skills take time to train, and not everybody has them that high. Try using something besides missiles, and maybe you'll discover their weakness.

Shove your 1337 BS, and take a step back from the podium. This thread isn't even valid anymore.


Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.05.22 00:55:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran

Using max. or near max skill to determine that something is effective and working properly is just stupid.


ShockedConfusedNeutralLaughing

It's actually the only way to compare things.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 01:04:00 - [247]
 

@Fon: You're partially correct. The other way is experience. If something doesn't perform well compared to something else, then it is obviously in need of improvement. That's my opinion anyway.

Just for reference. I DPS graphed HML's and HAM's with equivalent ammunition, (Faction, Advanced long-reange, Adv. short, etc..), some time ago, and matched them against various ships with different sig radius and at different velocities. No Target painters, no shield extenders or MWD's, and all skills were considered maxed. This is what I'm basin my information on. Unless the program that supplied the various graphs is wrong, HAM's consistently supply less DPS until they are being used against BC and higher. This covers Vagabond's, and various other common PvP ships which I used as the base vessels to which damage was applied in theory. If that's not an accurate indication, then go ahead and whip out your charts.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.05.22 01:42:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 22/05/2011 01:49:47

Dunno what we are actually arguing with, but HAMs are pretty pointless in most common PvP anyway, since we've got those very convenient heavies. Does losing like 80% of the range to gain 10% DPS sound appealing in any way? In this case I'd say no. Though, it might be a bit different for cruise missiles, huge range of which is just useless, while the DPS is pathetic. And no, torps are not HAMs. HAMs still 'feel' like heavies, while torps and cruise missiles are something entirely different.

What I'm saying is that judging by experience based on subpar skills is pretty pointless, too Smile

I wouldn't say that HAMs are broken. That's just HML Drake being that good rather than anything else, really. Well, maybe a little tweaks here and there are indeed needed, but those are not as crucial as fixing the damned Drake is.

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.05.22 03:25:00 - [249]
 

Time for me to get flamed in here.

I fly mostly Caldari and up to HACs for Gallente. I have great missile/gunnery skills. I am one of the few people that really like my blaster boats and this may have something to do with the ones I fly. I fly the Harpy and Moa and tend to get ignored over other ships in my fleet as people dont seem to find me a threat.

The issue with Blasters is range and tracking right? If hybrid platforms receives a bonus to webber range then much of this would be negated it seems. With a bonus to webber range you would be able to close in quicker before you take too much damage on the burn in.

This wouldnt result in hybrid platforms being used as 'interceptors' as webbing an opponent allows them to align faster, meaning less time to point, and if you were in point range in the first place then you would have pointed them then webbed them anyway.

T2 webber is -60% speed, a scrambler (which blaster boats would use as they work inside this range) will shut off MWD. This should bring some balance, yes?

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.05.22 03:27:00 - [250]
 

I wanted to add that for tracking you can attempt to minimize radial by not just clicking orbit and a missclick wont necc result in unwebbed opponents due to the bonus.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:17:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 22/05/2011 10:18:35
Originally by: Mars Theran
Just for reference. I DPS graphed HML's and HAM's with equivalent ammunition, (Faction, Advanced long-reange, Adv. short, etc..), some time ago, and matched them against various ships with different sig radius and at different velocities. No Target painters, no shield extenders or MWD's, and all skills were considered maxed. This is what I'm basin my information on. Unless the program that supplied the various graphs is wrong, HAM's consistently supply less DPS until they are being used against BC and higher.


While admirable in intent, your effort to strip out the effects of painters etc. does not reflect reality. The fact is that HAMs are a close-range weapon system designed to be used inside tackle range, and you need a web to keep your target tackled. So HAMs are almost always used with web support. The web makes HAMs apply full damage - more than HMs - to virtually all non-ABing cruisers.

This is an example of the dangers of take EFT numbers at face value, without understanding their application in-game.

There's basically nothing wrong with HAMs or the HAM Drake. It compares very favourably with its close-range counterparts of armour-Cane, armour-Harb and armour-Myrm. It's just that people don't really fly those armoured BCs any more... Laughing

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 11:17:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 22/05/2011 10:18:35
Originally by: Mars Theran
Just for reference. I DPS graphed HML's and HAM's with equivalent ammunition, (Faction, Advanced long-reange, Adv. short, etc..), some time ago, and matched them against various ships with different sig radius and at different velocities. No Target painters, no shield extenders or MWD's, and all skills were considered maxed. This is what I'm basin my information on. Unless the program that supplied the various graphs is wrong, HAM's consistently supply less DPS until they are being used against BC and higher.


While admirable in intent, your effort to strip out the effects of painters etc. does not reflect reality. The fact is that HAMs are a close-range weapon system designed to be used inside tackle range, and you need a web to keep your target tackled. So HAMs are almost always used with web support. The web makes HAMs apply full damage - more than HMs - to virtually all non-ABing cruisers.

This is an example of the dangers of take EFT numbers at face value, without understanding their application in-game.

There's basically nothing wrong with HAMs or the HAM Drake. It compares very favourably with its close-range counterparts of armour-Cane, armour-Harb and armour-Myrm. It's just that people don't really fly those armoured BCs any more... Laughing


I'm aware of their application in game, and I believe I already pointed out that a single ship cannot fit everything. Web, point, and painter on a Drake doesn't leave much for shields. Even just Web and point doesn't. If you weren't crowd tanking, you'd recognize the flaw in that. Not that a fully tanked Drake can survive solo anyway.

That's for a Drake, which has a decent number of mid's, and doesn't cover all the ships that have to sacrifice shields almost entirely, just to fit a single point.

It reflects reality, just not taking into account random variables that increase exponentially as you add more ships to the equation. Right?

You must take some time to learn scientific principle one of these days.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 11:21:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Tyme Xandr
Time for me to get flamed in here.

I fly mostly Caldari and up to HACs for Gallente. I have great missile/gunnery skills. I am one of the few people that really like my blaster boats and this may have something to do with the ones I fly. I fly the Harpy and Moa and tend to get ignored over other ships in my fleet as people dont seem to find me a threat.

The issue with Blasters is range and tracking right? If hybrid platforms receives a bonus to webber range then much of this would be negated it seems. With a bonus to webber range you would be able to close in quicker before you take too much damage on the burn in.

This wouldnt result in hybrid platforms being used as 'interceptors' as webbing an opponent allows them to align faster, meaning less time to point, and if you were in point range in the first place then you would have pointed them then webbed them anyway.

T2 webber is -60% speed, a scrambler (which blaster boats would use as they work inside this range) will shut off MWD. This should bring some balance, yes?


Fly a Brutix and you'll find the 'threat' they percieve is much greater. You may even get primaried. The reasons you don't: You're flying Caldari, and you have to sacrifice shields to fit point, scram, and web. This means you're either an easy take down, or easy to get away from.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.22 12:29:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
Fly a Brutix and you'll find the 'threat' they percieve is much greater. You may even get primaried. The reasons you don't: You're flying Caldari, and you have to sacrifice shields to fit point, scram, and web. This means you're either an easy take down, or easy to get away from.


If you fly some Brutix and you are primary it's not because you're a threat but an easy kill mail every one want to add to his collection.

Let me fix it 4U: "You're flying Caldari, and you don't have to sacrifice shields to fit point, scram, and web. This means you're shooting everything on your overview without many drawbacks like distance, transversal or for your target easy to get away from you."

Laughing

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.05.22 12:57:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 22/05/2011 13:00:10
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 22/05/2011 12:57:22
Quote:
I've used HAM's, just not in PvP


Then you have no say here. HAMs are a PVP weapon, and I actually have used them as such.

Quote:
Sig Bloom a ship and you'll get consistent DPS, else they're basically just a ~400 DPS


Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. With faction ammo I deal full damage to a properly tackled cruiser, and with rage full damage to a battlecruiser. Working as intended.

Quote:
Using max. or near max skill to determine that something is effective and working properly is just stupid.


Nope, it's standard. But hey, it's not my fault your missile skill suck.

Quote:
Shove your 1337 BS, and take a step back from the podium. This thread isn't even valid anymore.


It's perfectly valid, you're just wrong and have no clue what you're talking about.

Quote:
The issue with Blasters is range and tracking right? If hybrid platforms receives a bonus to webber range then much of this would be negated it seems.


This would be horribly overpowered. Seriously can you imagine every t1 blasterboat running round with web bonuses? There'd be no point flying anything else.

Quote:
Web, point, and painter on a Drake doesn't leave much for shields.


I have scram and web on my Drake, this is all I need to hit for full dps and oh look, I still have 80k EHP.
So let's add the Drake to the number of things you don't have a clue about Very Happy

Quote:
You must take some time to learn scientific principle one of these days.


Judging by your utter ignorance of everything missile-related, "scientific principle" isn't doing you much good right now. I can examine figures just as well as you, but the difference is I can apply them to reality.

Quote:
Fly a Brutix and you'll find the 'threat' they percieve is much greater. You may even get primaried. The reasons you don't: You're flying Caldari, and you have to sacrifice shields to fit point, scram, and web. This means you're either an easy take down, or easy to get away from.


Umm, no, you get primaried because the Brutix is a glass cannon wheras the Drake is significantly tougher. Their applied dps will often turn out to be pretty similar.

Now just for fun: Things Mars Theran likes to make points on, but actually knows nothing about! Very Happy
- The Drake
- Missiles (the basics)
- HAMs
- Cruises
- Skill comparisons
- Brutixes
- Primary calling
- Basically anything outside his cute little carebear bubble :)

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.05.22 13:18:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
I'm aware of their application in game, and I believe I already pointed out that a single ship cannot fit everything.


You've stated that you have no experience with HAMs in PVP, so, no, you are not aware of their application in game.

Originally by: Mars Theran
Web, point, and painter on a Drake doesn't leave much for shields. Even just Web and point doesn't.


You do not fit a painter on a HAM Drake. MWD, web and point leaves three medslots free, enough for 83k EHP. Have you fallen through a wormhole from 2007?

Originally by: Mars Theran
You must take some time to learn scientific principle one of these days.


I'm a scientist, I'm always learning.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.22 15:16:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington

Quote:
The issue with Blasters is range and tracking right? If hybrid platforms receives a bonus to webber range then much of this would be negated it seems.


This would be horribly overpowered. Seriously can you imagine every t1 blasterboat running round with web bonuses? There'd be no point flying anything else.


Why? It worked just fine for ~5 years...

Looking forward to seeing how this 'bigger picture' on balance works out, assuming CSM can nudge CCP to make it happen.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.05.22 15:23:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 22/05/2011 15:23:15
Quote:
Why? It worked just fine for ~5 years...


When exactly did blasterboats have web range bonuses? That was what he was suggesting, and I stand by my point that Thoraxes running round with 20km webs is not a good thing.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.22 15:41:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 22/05/2011 15:23:15
Quote:
Why? It worked just fine for ~5 years...


When exactly did blasterboats have web range bonuses? That was what he was suggesting, and I stand by my point that Thoraxes running round with 20km webs is not a good thing.
Ah I misread that as web strength, nvm...

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.22 17:55:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 22/05/2011 17:55:38
you homos still *****ing about the drake and heavy missles?

SIMPLE FIX!!!!

reduce heavy missle/cruise flight time and intoroduce a mod (like tracking comps and TE) but for missles lets call it accelerated launcher system or (ALS) it increases the velocity of missles and explosion velocity... have scripts for the mid slot version and you have now fixed the drake...

thanks you !

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.05.22 19:01:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
Originally by: Tyme Xandr
Time for me to get flamed in here.

I fly mostly Caldari and up to HACs for Gallente. I have great missile/gunnery skills. I am one of the few people that really like my blaster boats and this may have something to do with the ones I fly. I fly the Harpy and Moa and tend to get ignored over other ships in my fleet as people dont seem to find me a threat.

The issue with Blasters is range and tracking right? If hybrid platforms receives a bonus to webber range then much of this would be negated it seems. With a bonus to webber range you would be able to close in quicker before you take too much damage on the burn in.

This wouldnt result in hybrid platforms being used as 'interceptors' as webbing an opponent allows them to align faster, meaning less time to point, and if you were in point range in the first place then you would have pointed them then webbed them anyway.

T2 webber is -60% speed, a scrambler (which blaster boats would use as they work inside this range) will shut off MWD. This should bring some balance, yes?


Fly a Brutix and you'll find the 'threat' they perceive is much greater. You may even get primaried. The reasons you don't: You're flying Caldari, and you have to sacrifice shields to fit point, scram, and web. This means you're either an easy take down, or easy to get away from.


Flying a ship with all gank and no tank is asking to get primaried. Thats just how it works. You can tank a Brutix and take a 300 DPS hit, ull still be hitting 600s.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.05.22 19:15:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch
Edited by: MeBiatch on 22/05/2011 17:55:38
Mindless drivel


Wow, calm down. Anyway your idea is ridiculous, if there was actually a need to nerf HML Drakes (doubtful, really) it's accomplished much easier by slashing max lock range. There, same result without pointless missile nerfs.

Mariner6
Posted - 2011.05.22 21:01:00 - [263]
 

I think part of the discussion on this thread that has been missing is PRICE. I think that is a key factor to add to the equation when talking about ship balancing.
The whole call to arms to nerf the DRAM seems overblown. That ship has not ruined the game and made all other frigs obsolete. It's still a frig and with proper tactics in a fleet we regularly get one shot Alpha's on them much to their surprise. And it's 100M isk+ when you lose one. I don't fly one, but if a player wants to spend that kind of ISK on a frig then power to him. It comes with great performance, well earned for the price. If you nerf it, then you better nerf the price too. I say, leave it alone and fight smarter and watch them cry to a well coordinated attack. To me this game is about fleet and cooperative play, and can overcome any solo ship even the very scary Dram.
I think that if players want to spend the ISK on a shiny, then great. It should come with a corresponding increase in performance because it cost a bunch and that risk should be rewarded.
This leads me to my second point to reinforce the Gallente ship dilemma. If the overall concept of the Gallente ship is a close in fighter then that comes with a host of issues that have been discussed. 1)it must get close and that requires a means to do so however, it is an armor tanked platform (normally) so difficult to accomplish this. More armor means lower speed (rigs) and less agility. I love the idea of up close and personal face melting, but you can't get there. Fast ships just kite. Even a good coordinated fleet action, where a scout gets you a close warp in, the targets move out of range before lock all too often, or even if locked can burn away even with web/scram on them. Worst of all for Gallente is that you MUST commit in the fight since your a close in fighter. This means high risk of being primary, tackled and getting popped. This makes the cost/risk ratio on these ships poor. Much more cost effective to fly a Hurricane or a Drake and stay at some range, and you have the speed to GTFO when its time. So yes, Gallente (aka Spanish Armada) needs a hard look and their corresponding weapons, but also price. Reduce the mineral requirements or something to make Gallente ships much less expensive and I think you'll see use go way up. If you want a whole race dedicated to close in killing, that risk has to be balanced with a lower cost relative to other platforms due to the much higher risk of being killed.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.22 21:03:00 - [264]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 22/05/2011 21:14:41
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Originally by: MeBiatch
Edited by: MeBiatch on 22/05/2011 17:55:38
good idea that will balance the game


your idea is AWESOME!, I really whish i understood but i am not that smrt?.:].


if you understood the suggestion you would know that its not a ham nerf but a ham/torp boost...

having a low slot mod that increases the expolsion velosity and velosity of missles is a good thing...

reducing the range of heavy missles/cruise whilist giving them a mid or low slot to increase thier range/explosion velosity is a good thing...

i would much rather have an overall missle boost while still having a heavy drake nerf... if you just reduce targeting range on the drake then you still need to boost other missle ships...

imagine a torp raven that has a mid slot to increase explosion velocity... now that 1200 dps can actaully do some damage...
making the cerb bonus mean something is a good thing...

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.05.22 22:54:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch

imagine a torp raven that has a mid slot to increase explosion velocity...


Maybe we could call this strange new medslot item a "target painter"? Idea

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.05.22 23:03:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: MeBiatch

imagine a torp raven that has a mid slot to increase explosion velocity...


Maybe we could call this strange new medslot item a "target painter"? Idea

owned

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.22 23:57:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: MeBiatch

imagine a torp raven that has a mid slot to increase explosion velocity...


Maybe we could call this strange new medslot item a "target painter"? Idea


really there is a target painter for low slots?

the TP increases missle velosity now?

crazyRolling Eyes

Voith
Posted - 2011.05.23 02:52:00 - [268]
 

This is why we can't have nice things.

Never mind that the "sandbox" aspect of Eve is a complete illusion because you're forced into only a handful of "optimal" hulls, for clearly defined roles.

Lets wave our ****s at each other instead.

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2011.05.23 03:05:00 - [269]
 

Nerf the Dramiel. Really. Some of the other faction frigs need considering as well.

EAS's, well, unfortunately with the current state of EW (jamming), I'd like to say "fix em", but its a waste of breath until all-or-nothing EW is moved away from. (See: my posts about 5 years ago)

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.05.23 05:08:00 - [270]
 

As ignored as this will be, Merlin needs the following change:

- 2 Launcher slots
+ 2 Turret slots
+ 9 pg
+ 70 Capacitor

Make it a friggin hybrid boat. It would be a decent step down from the Harpy.


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