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E man Industries
Posted - 2011.04.28 22:19:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: E man Industries on 28/04/2011 22:19:23
Amar assault frigs and destroyers need help as they can not perform many given roles ina fleet/small gang/solo fight.

They are tackle and need to be able to fit a tackle mod and a propulsion mod to catch things. A single mid slot is simply fail in a PvP ship.

The amar destroyer does NOT do enough dmg or magically tank better than it's co horts to offset this glaring lack. If it did 2x the damage of a thrasher then maybe it would have some sort of argument for not being able to tackle but as it is....it simply does nto perform any function.

The same could be said of the retruibution. the lack of a mid slot so hampers these ships as to render them useless. Even straight up giving them an extra slot would not overpower them. Some changes are needed.

Jita mcheck
Posted - 2011.04.28 22:21:00 - [122]
 

Armor tanks speed penalties are much to high.

Shield tankers are faster and more mobile to such a degree armor tanking is very much out of a flavor.

Reduce the penalty on armour plates

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.04.28 22:27:00 - [123]
 

Nighthawk needs some extreme attention. Since this has been already discussed and approved by some previous CSM, I will just link it: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Boost_Nighthawk_%28CSM%29

Tl;DR : If you can't see that a command ship has 13% less powergrid than a Thorax, then you must be blind.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.04.29 03:30:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 03/05/2011 02:24:20
Juggernaut class capital ship
class tech II Dreadnaught

Chaos:
In Greek cosmology, Chaos was a primordial state of matter from which the cosmos and the other gods emerged. For Hesiod and the early Greek Olympian myth (8th century BC), Chaos was the "vast and dark" void from which Nyx emerged

The empires seeing an increased usage of capital ships more specifically super carriers which slice threw other capital ships have commissioned a beast of a ship called the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut lives up to its name featuring the Remote repair killing Capital Neutralizer and Nosforatu, and enough hitpoints to effectively tank a doomsday device... The empires have also achieved a new level in excellence in their new siege drives and jump drives. The siege drive utilizes enhanced tech recently retrieved from expeditions into worm hole space that effectively cuts in half the siege modules activation time. Furthermore a new beefier jump drive has been installed in the Juggernaut that lets it activate its jump drive with less capacitor. But all this new gear comes at a price and the engineers thought best that the sensor department could be cut in half resulting in a lowered sensor strength for all Juggernauts.

Developer: Duvolle Labs

Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden’s foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal.

hull: moros


role bonus:
ship only needs 60% cap to jump
siege moduel duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50%
can use capital nuets and nos
can fit Tech II siege moduel
(Tech II siege mod is the same as the regular siege mod but provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets... think of oppisite to carrier in triage)


Dreadnaught ship bonus:
5% to cap hybrid turret damage per lev
20% to drone hp/damage per lev

Juggernaut ship bonus:
5% to cap hybrid turret damage per lev
10% to armor amount per lev

sensor strength 22 magnometric

7 low slots
5 mid slots
6 high slots (4 gun 2 utility)

the ship would have enough ehp to atleast tank 1 ddd - maybe two if he goes all crazy with officer gear
The idea for the ship is a beefier dread...
this one does more damage has better tank...
can use a capital nuet to make carrier rr a nightmareYARRRR!!
plus the siege mod only lasts 5 min so you can get out in a hurry with a lower cap level if you have to bail...

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous

Posted - 2011.04.29 09:04:00 - [125]
 

A few things I think should be done:

1) SC's need a better defined role. Currently they are logi, super dreads and even tacklers. That needs to end. I would like to see them returned to their original logistics role. Thus I think FB's should be deleted from the game, SC's given their triage mod back and more appropriate bonuses to go with that. They were too weak originally, so I'm definitely not suggesting they fully revert to what they were. But they should never have been made dps ships. Instead they should be much tankier carriers (both EHP and active tank) and RR better.

2) Dramiel needs a nerf, it's not just a little bit faster than the second fastest ship, it's a lot faster. The dram can be the fastest but I'd limit that to 100-200m/s faster, not 2km/s faster. It also needs a dps nerf. Removing the drone bay would do this effectively.

3) BO's need added range (6LY with max skills would be good), reduced fuel usage for covert jump portal and a rethinking of ship bonuses and base stats. Either they are combat ships or they aren't. The stats and bonuses must match. Currently the redeemer has combat ship bonuses but it's tank is so nerfed to hell compared to the t1 armageddon that it's foolish to go anywhere near a fight with it. And it's considered the best of them for direct combat.

4) The cruor lacks the powergrid to fit both neuts and guns. The value of small neuts without a range bonus is also highly questionable. As if that wasn't enough, every other faction frigate has more mid/low slots than it. It's slow with poor agility, poor tank, low dps and largely ineffective EW.

5) The AFK empires need to end. This largely revolves around moon goo. With fixed moon resources in well documented places, it is absolutely impossible for any new entity to get their hands on these highly sought after resources. It also ensures a fixed supply and that those who already have these moons never have to worry about running them dry and having to find new ones. Moons either need to have varying resources based on mining practices or moon mining needs to be eliminated with those resources going to belts or exploration sites.

6) There is too much emphasis on blob warfare. Bringing more should have drawbacks. Whether it be LOS issues, stacking penalties on dps, added AoE damage or any of a number of other possibilities. I don't care what but something must be done.

7) Any ship with 1 midslot is broken

8) Legion's covert ops subsystem is broken

9) Tengu's ECM subsystems are broken

10) Proteus's drone subsystem is broken

11) Blasters need a buff, I suggest an across the board buff of 25% to falloff and a 10% increase in raw damage. Short ranged but deadly should be their role, right now they are just short ranged.

12) Dreads, umm, lol. If SC's get sent back to their original super sized triage carrier role, then reduce siege cycle time and fuel usage by 1/2. If SC's are kept as DPS ships, dreads need to have their damage/tank without a siege mod increased to what it is with. This change would include the deletion of the siege mod from game.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.30 17:30:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Well, for starters, I would say that the "bounding spheres" of all ships would need to become much larger, but the "bounce coefficient" needs to become far more lenient in the "outer layers", and the way a small bounding sphere interacts with a large one needs to be readjusted (so, for instance, a small ship could have far less of an effect on a large ship's trajectory, but the small ship should be able to "intrude" in the large ship's sphere to some degree without being bounced back like mad)... and while inside a POS shield, all of them would be significantly reduced (optionally, also reduce speed when too close together, but only while inside a shield AND when too close to another ship).

Basically, a sort of enforced "collision avoidance" ship navigation automated subroutine (if you want to consider the RP implications), that would work from a practical (gameplay) standpoint as a very soft anti-blob technique, which would also have an impact on the way bumping works.

So, say, if there's a bunch of supercaps, they would tend to drift apart to a relatively large distance unless all ships are actively trying to move towards the same point, and it should be harder and harder to "clump together" the closer they get (and the more of them are around).
However, at the same time, battleships should be able to move with relative impunity where supercap movement would be already somewhat restricted, cruisers could flock together relatively closely or even fly by the barely moving and still attempting to approach one another supercaps, whereas frigates would hardly feel any difference from the current model.

In other words, ships should act far less like giant rubber balls with a relatively clear size... and instead act slightly more like a bunch of objects charged with the same sign of static electricity (but the "strength" of the interaction would be smaller the larger the sig difference would be).



Considering the reality of a frigate colliding at velocity with a Sub-Cap like an Orca or a Freighter would result in the fiery death of all occupants of the frigate and the frigate itself, without much damage to the Sub-Cap, this is at least a step in the right direction.


Rented
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:58:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Rented on 30/04/2011 23:10:25
Originally by: Mars Theran
Considering the reality of a frigate colliding at velocity with a Sub-Cap like an Orca or a Freighter would result in the fiery death of all occupants of the frigate and the frigate itself, without much damage to the Sub-Cap, this is at least a step in the right direction.




Tbh, realistically it would probally result in the fiery death of all involved. A frigate traveling at 2,000 m/s is carrying alot more energy-to-mass then even the most powerful of modern guns, with ALOT more mass. A frigate impacting at that speed (many tons of steel/etc) would be more then capable of immense amounts of destruction, and even in planetary terms would be able to 'remove' a large city.

Im such a nerd. ='(

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.30 22:57:00 - [128]
 

It's a distinct possibility. Frigates aren't exactly small craft like Fighter jets, and even one of those could cause significant damage to a Battleship if it struck it. Possibly even sink it.

Yes, I support this thread too. Keep em' coming CSM Smile

I might even have something to say on the subject. It is a large area though, and I can't say as I have come to any solid resolutions regarding it that I would post here just yet.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.05.02 01:12:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Julius Foederatus on 02/05/2011 01:13:11
Edited by: Julius Foederatus on 02/05/2011 01:12:20
This is mainly for Gallente ships but some also cover gameplay as a whole. Also I'll not include all my explanations for each of these but I'll link the original thread so you can read my justifications there.

Original thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1444752

1) Increase the Dampener bonus on Celestis hulls (T1 plus the recon ships) from 5% per level to 10% per level.

2) Change the penalties on Armor rigs so that they no longer affect speed.

3) Boost the base speed on Gallente ships.

4) Add more PG to the (Gallente) ships or lower hybrid fitting requirements.

5) Lastly, change the rep bonus or alter armor reps somehow (probably through less cap usage or less PG required).

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.02 04:00:00 - [130]
 

Okay, I've thought about it, and I'm ready to reply.

First off, I'd like to say that EVE needs a First Person mode of Starship Control and Command. This should be an optional perspective, and be available with Incarna as a choice made when first entering the game, available from the new starting area in Command Quarters. This doesn't mean it has to be available when Incarna is released, just that it can be a feature added later.

Here's how it works:

The Camera's which float around your ship, are the key. Obviously, moving the perspective to a full first person mode is not a viable choice, as we are still pod pilots.

The first person perspective of command will center all the camera's facing out from your ship, slightly above center and clear of the models structure. You still rely on them to show you the world around your ship. From this POV, the player will see his ship beneath him, and be able to rotate his view to look around and up. A hotkey to invert your view, may be used to have the same perspective, from the bottom of the vessel.

This will bring players closer to their ship, and make it the center of their universe.

Zoom options will become available in this perspective, allowing players to look at more distant objects with the scrolling of a mouse wheel.

Reintroduce the RADAR. Currently, the blob of ships and objects around your vessel serves as a radar of sorts, allowing you to see everything around you, from a zoomed out perspective. This will not function with a first person perspective, and players will become more reliant on their overview, and rediscover the need for an actual radar.

The RADAR will be 2 Dimensional, and relate all positions as out from the ship, whether they are above, below, or next to it, based on distance and relative position. Dot's on the Radar will indicate, (through shape), ship or object class, and position. Those above will be one color, below another, and next to a Neutral balance; between those, will be a shade between. For example, we could use Blue, Yellow, and Grey respectively.

Introduce Collision Damage, and alter collision avoidance systems. Damage from collisions, (with any object), will result in damage affecting Shields, armor, and structure on a vessel, bleeding through from one to the other, with the majority of damage hitting the outermost, (generally shields), first.

Damage will be dependent on mass and relative velocity, and will be affected by the Inertia of both. Collisions will no longer result in rubber ball effects.

To avoid collision damage on warp in's to gates, asteroid fields, stations and the like, we will introduce a 10 second delay for ships to rephase with the physical universe on completing warp. Ships will continue to travel in a straight line, or will automatically redirect their trajectory, (with normal inertia effects potentially halved and without reducing velocity), towards the nearest edge of any model they happen to be within upon leaving warp.

Effectively, warp is extended, until they are no longer within a physical structure. Being out of phase, ships in warp will now have a cloaking effect, from the point where they enter warp, until that point at which they leave it free of obstructions.

I do not play EVE to have the impression I am playing Ping-Pong. The effect is undesireable and unrealistic.

I would also like to see a Captains Cabin arrive with Incarna, or sometime after as an addition. Like the Captains Quarters aboard station, it will feature the ability to move around and have a viewport to see outside your ship. Other players may visit you there, when they are onboard their own ships, and within a reasonable proximity. This will be projection, and not in fact actual forms and physical interaction. The quarter's will be entirely virtual, and exist only in the pod pilots minds, and be accessible through their interface with their ships. I believe something similar was done in a chronicle once.

Arrow

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.02 04:30:00 - [131]
 

Specifically regarding ships, I have the following to say.

Weapons aboard ships should see some change. I'm not talking about the new animation effects, graphics or similar things. Weapon placements aboard ships need to see changes in other area's.

Take a Battleship for instance. Typically it carries 5-8 Turrets, which are mirrored somewhere else on the ship, only one of which ever fires at any given time. Basically, this is fine, but ship classes only really fit one kind of turret, or a smaller version in equal numbers. This should change.

Imagine a Battleship in EVE with only two large turrets, yet also sporting four additional Mediums, and another six small ones. While it may put out a significant amount of DPS with such a configuration, it can only do so within the range limitations of it's smallest turrets.

More to the point, such a ship would more closely represent a space faring version of a real battleship. Frigates would no longer be able to single handedly take on a Battleship, nor would most cruisers. Battleships would have a purpose, and be much more capable of defending themselves. A reason for the class would exist, and combat of all sorts in EVE would evolve.

Evolve.

This same can apply to Battlecruisers and Cruisers, Dreadnoughts, Carriers and Supercarriers. Currently only range is a factor in choosing to go for a bigger ship class, which is quite often silly when missiles are brought into the equation. And then, there are drones which can be had in greater number aboard some larger vessels. This is irrelevent, when you consider an Ishtar in the equation, as it holds and fields more drones than pretty much any battleship.

Frigates need a little love to. They generally lack powergrid, while having ample CPU, and limited fitting hampers them, or just plain makes them all but useless. There are a few exceptions, which serve well in some situations, yet these are exceptions and not the norm. Most frigates are fragile and easily destroyed, while being incapable of fielding any real offensive force.

Cruisers aren't much better. Most of them are useless, and not just for PvP.

Ships need to scale properly. A big ship should be big, and no drone should be more than half the size of a frigate. Large ships may even need an Inertia dampening effect, which slows other ships down around them, though not much and relevent to mass. Kind of like coming close to a planet.

Larger ships need higher maximum velocity. Despite their mass, there is no reason why they should not be able to achieve higher speeds; it just might take longer for them to do so. Smaller vessels like Cruisers should have higher maximum velocities as well, as should nearly any other vessel.

To counter the effect of increasin velocities and time required to reach maximum velocity to warp on larger vessels, velocity required to warp should be relevent to the size of the ship. All vessels should take approximately the same time to reach warp when traveling within a straight line, allowing for slightly increasing times to achieve warp, (in a straight line), for even larger vessels. This is space, there is no reason we should need to move so slow, beyond that required for tactical maneuvers in engagements.

Blobs will no longer exist.

With collision damage and increased velocities, players will have to take greater control of their vessels, and more care will be required in fleet formations.

This will also affect PvE macro's like ratting bots, making them less reliable and potentially unusable.

Smile


Alexandra Stormwing
Cry Wolf.
Posted - 2011.05.02 15:53:00 - [132]
 

EAFs. In general they are simply too fragile. All of them should have their sig radius dropped, maybe even in half. They have poor survivability in small gang situations because their EHP is so incredibly low.

In addition:

Sentinel: A few hundred armor points would go a long, long way here. Fitting is also very tight, even with perfect skills. Could use another low slot and some extra grid/cpu to stick something in there. I also wouldn't be adverse to an extra 5%/level range on the neuts/nos. If not this, then at least make the small faction neuts cheaper in the LP stores. The cost of those things is insidiously high.

Kitsune: I'm actually fairly comfortable with this ship (and yes, I do fly it). You're forced to choose between mid-range, high strength jamming or boosting its effective range. What I never understood is why it lost the base hull's drone bay. I want my guard dog back.

Keres: What's the point of a damp ship with such pitiful targeting range? Give it 60km or so. An extra 2.5% damp strength would help a lot too.

Hyena: The web range bonus is useless if you can't get into range. That means you need a MWD. The MWD blows your sig radius up to the size of a small moon. The 3% bonus doesn't cut it. The paper thin EHP just got worse. If you're worried about it taking over the role of an interceptor too much, then perhaps reduce the base speed so that it goes about 2.5km/s with a MWD. Needs more CPU, too. It isn't possible to get a decent fit using all T2.

I'm generally happy with the build cost of these ships. I wouldn't want them to be much cheaper, but not more expensive either. Unless they don't get buffed... Then they need to be cheaper.

Elmer Dunley Horsekoch
Posted - 2011.05.02 16:12:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon

Capitals, as I said in the other thread, are currently thrown way out of line by the absurd overpowering of supercarriers. 0.0 has become a 1 dimensional arms race of who can field the most Nyxes. Dreadnoughts and carriers can now only operate after you have counted your opponents supercaps and confirmed that you have more than they do. Supercarriers are dying at an unprecedented rate, yes, but when they do its almost always to larger packs of other supercarriers.

Supercarriers, the Nyx and Aeon especially, have 3 main advantages over other shiptypes - the massive EHP buffer, massive variation in their primary weapon type, and the large number of utility slots. These things combine to produce a ship which can omni-fit against any circumstance with little in the way of drawbacks. That isn't balanced, nor is it particularly fun, and it has come to dominate the capital warfare scene. Some relatively modest nerfs to the three advantages I mentioned above would go a long way to bring them back under control.

Oddly enough, even Titans aren't particularly overpowered by themselves – the removal of the AoE doomsday increased their vulnerability to dictors and subcaps, as did the capital gun buff in Dominion (because they now are encouraged to fit XL turrets or launchers in the highs rather than smartbombs and neuts, and damage mods in the lows which compromise their tank and/or capacitor). If every supercarrier was deleted from the server database tomorrow Dreadnoughts and Carriers would be mostly balanced, as they would no longer be rendered obsolete as sov-grinding tools and anti-capital vessels, whilst retaining some vulnerability to subcapital fleets. Some minor tweaks to them (the 5 minute siege cycle, for example) would be welcome, but the main issue of imbalance amongst capitals right now is the omnipotance of supercarriers.


Print this out and have it sent to every employee at CCP. Sov. nullsec is literally choking to death on these ships. The experience of the SC pilots themselves is not fun. I've been flying a Nyx for over a year now and i'm not enjoying myself. As for the rest of the troops who are out there in hellcats, hacs, carriers, and anything else that's not an SC... well, I can only imagine they are miserable. They exist entirely to bait other SC onto the battlefield so that the other SC pilots and I can kill them. That is the sum total of all goals in 0.0 right now: Build more SCs, kill more of the enemy SCs.

This needs to end and the sooner it does, the better. I'm more than willing to see my Nyx nerfed or out-right removed from the game if that helps bring back meaningful sub-cap interaction in sov fleet warfare.

Alexandra Stormwing
Cry Wolf.
Posted - 2011.05.02 16:59:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Alexandra Stormwing on 02/05/2011 17:50:26
And, to parrot:

The tier system is terrible. Too many ships are simply useless. Buff the terrible ships to be in line with the rest so that they're worth flying.

The Amarr T1 cruiser lineup is pretty sad. The Arbitrator is nice, but the rest are sad. Bonuses to laser cap usage aren't a good enough reason to fit lasers to a ship; people end up using ACs instead. Change those bonuses to a ROF or damage bonus or range bonus or something worthwhile. Heat bonus?

HAM Prophecy would be super cool. Please, please, please give me a reason to fly that ship. The ship model is awesome.

Angel ship line is overpowered, the Dramiel in particular.

Succubus, Phantasm, Cruor need love.

The Sacrilege is a nice concept, but it is lacking as a HAC. It needs to get very close to its target to really do anything, unlike other HACs which are agile, fast, and can do good damage at range. A cool buff to the Sac would be a much larger cargo bay so that it can store more cap boosters for the dual-rep fit. Speaking of that dual-rep fit... It would be nice if other fits were viable for this thing.

I want active tanking to be viable in general, not just for a few niche ships.

Gypsio's take on a wide ship nerf isn't a bad one. I would rather buff than nerf, but if all ships end up well balanced then I really don't care.

Unprobeable, off-grid boosting is terrible and needs fixed.

Sengsara
Posted - 2011.05.02 17:13:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Nighthawk needs some extreme attention. Since this has been already discussed and approved by some previous CSM, I will just link it: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Boost_Nighthawk_%28CSM%29

Tl;DR : If you can't see that a command ship has 13% less powergrid than a Thorax, then you must be blind.


this!

InColdBlood
Posted - 2011.05.02 19:05:00 - [136]
 

I find it funny that on the official wiki (evelopedia) pages 2 out of 3 suggested fits for ishtar does not use hybrids even though this ship obviously has bonuses for hybrids.

Its nice you provide actual advice for new players, but come on! FIX HYBRIDS!!!!!!!

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ishtar_%28Fitting%29#Level_5_capless_passive_tank_with_higher_HP_.26_DPS

FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


grumpyguts1
Posted - 2011.05.02 19:57:00 - [137]
 

Introduce a Pirate Faction Battleship missile boat, and no the Rattlesnake is not it.

Bhaalghorn - 100% Large Energy Turret
Vindicator - 37,5% Large Hybrid Turret
Macharial - 25% Large Projectile Turret
Nightmare - 100% Large Energy Turret
Rattlesnake - 50% Cruise and Torpedo Velocity and 10% drone hit points. Makes this a drone boat.


MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.02 21:28:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 03/05/2011 02:24:35
Juggernaut class capital ship
class tech II Dreadnaught

Garuda:
The story of Garuda's birth and deeds is told in the first book of the great epic Mahabharata. According to the epic, when Garuda first burst forth from his egg, he appeared as a raging inferno equal to the cosmic conflagration that consumes the world at the end of every age. Frightened, the gods begged him for mercy. Garuda, hearing their plea, reduced himself in size and energy.

The empires seeing an increased usage of capital ships more specifically super carriers which slice threw other capital ships have commissioned a beast of a ship called the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut lives up to its name featuring the Remote repair killing Capital Neutralizer and Nosforatu, and enough hitpoints to effectively tank a doomsday device... The empires have also achieved a new level in excellence in their new siege drives and jump drives. The siege drive utilizes enhanced tech recently retrieved from expeditions into worm hole space that effectively cuts in half the siege modules activation time. Furthermore a new beefier jump drive has been installed in the Juggernaut that lets it activate its jump drive with less capacitor. But all this new gear comes at a price and the engineers thought best that the sensor department could be cut in half resulting in a lowered sensor strength for all Juggernauts.

Developer: Kaalakiota

As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection.

hull:
Phoenix

role bonus:
ship only needs 60% cap to jump
siege moduel duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50%
can use capital nuets and nos
can fit Tech II siege moduel
(Tech II siege mod is the same as the regular siege mod but provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets... think of oppisite to carrier in triage)



Dreadnaught ship bonus:
5% bonus to kin missle damage per lev
5% bonus to rof per lev

Juggernaut ship bonus:
5% to shield resists per lev
5% bonus to explosion velocity per lev

sensor strength 24 gravimetric

5 low slots
7 mid slots
6 high slots (4 missle 2 utility)

the ship would have enough ehp to atleast tank 1 ddd - maybe two if he goes all crazy with officer gear
The idea for the ship is a beefier dread...
this one does more damage has better tank...
can use a capital nuet to make carrier rr a nightmare
plus the siege mod only lasts 5 min so you can get out in a hurry with a lower cap level if you have to bail...



MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.02 21:50:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 03/05/2011 02:24:51
Juggernaut class capital ship
class tech II Dreadnaught

She'ol:
It is a place of darkness to which all dead go regardless of the moral choices made in life and where they are "removed from the light of God". In the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) Sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous flesh. Job 7:9 "Just as a cloud dissipates and vanishes, those who go down to Sheol will not come back."

The empires seeing an increased usage of capital ships more specifically super carriers which slice threw other capital ships have commissioned a beast of a ship called the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut lives up to its name featuring the Remote repair killing Capital Neutralizer and Nosforatu, and enough hitpoints to effectively tank a doomsday device... The empires have also achieved a new level in excellence in their new siege drives and jump drives. The siege drive utilizes enhanced tech recently retrieved from expeditions into worm hole space that effectively cuts in half the siege modules activation time. Furthermore a new beefier jump drive has been installed in the Juggernaut that lets it activate its jump drive with less capacitor. But all this new gear comes at a price and the engineers thought best that the sensor department could be cut in half resulting in a lowered sensor strength for all Juggernauts.

Developer: Carthum Conglomerate

Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited.

hull:
revelation

role bonus:
ship only needs 60% cap to jump
siege moduel duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50%
can use capital nuets and nos
can fit Tech II siege moduel
(Tech II siege mod is the same as the regular siege mod but provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets... think of oppisite to carrier in triage)

Dreadnaught ship bonus:
10% reduction in capital energy turret per lev
5% bonus to rof per lev

Juggernaut ship bonus:
5% to armor resists per lev
5% bonus to energy turret damage per lev

sensor strength 21 radar

8 low slots
4 mid slots
6 high slots (4 turret 2 utility)

the ship would have enough ehp to atleast tank 1 ddd - maybe two if he goes all crazy with officer gear
The idea for the ship is a beefier dread...
this one does more damage has better tank...
can use a capital nuet to make carrier rr a nightmare
plus the siege mod only lasts 5 min so you can get out in a hurry with a lower cap level if you have to bail...

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.05.02 22:36:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch

The idea for the ship is a beefier dread...


Why are you proposing an entire new class instead of simply fixing the ships that we already have?

Incidentally, there's nothing wrong with dreads that a good hard supercarrier nerf won't fix.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.02 22:46:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
there's nothing wrong with dreads that a good hard supercarrier nerf won't fix.


everyone quote this everywhere thanks in advance

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.02 23:00:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 03/05/2011 02:25:08
Juggernaut class capital ship
class tech II Dreadnaught

Hrym:
In Norse mythology, Hrym (Old Norse "decrepit") is a jötunn and the captain of the ship Naglfar according to the Gyl***inning. During the end time conflict of Ragnarök he will set sail from Jotunheim, transporting the legions of jötnar toward the battlefield of Vígríđr to confront the gods in the final battle

The empires seeing an increased usage of capital ships more specifically super carriers which slice threw other capital ships have commissioned a beast of a ship called the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut lives up to its name featuring the Remote repair killing Capital Neutralizer and Nosforatu, and enough hitpoints to effectively tank a doomsday device... The empires have also achieved a new level in excellence in their new siege drives and jump drives. The siege drive utilizes enhanced tech recently retrieved from expeditions into worm hole space that effectively cuts in half the siege modules activation time. Furthermore a new beefier jump drive has been installed in the Juggernaut that lets it activate its jump drive with less capacitor. But all this new gear comes at a price and the engineers thought best that the sensor department could be cut in half resulting in a lowered sensor strength for all Juggernauts.

Developer: Boundless Creation

Boundless Creation’s ships are based on the Brutor Tribe’s philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential.

hull:
Naglfar

role bonus:
ship only needs 60% cap to jump
siege moduel duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50%
can use capital nuets and nos
can fit Tech II siege moduel
(Tech II siege mod is the same as the regular siege mod but provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets... think of oppisite to carrier in triage)



dreadnaught ship bonus:
5% cap projectile rof per lev
5% cap projectile damage per lev

Juggernaut ship bonus:
10% to shield amount per lev
5% missle rof per lev

sensor strength 20 ladar

6 low slots
6 mid slots
7 high slots (4 missle 4 turret 2 utility)

the ship would have enough ehp to atleast tank 1 ddd - maybe two if he goes all crazy with officer gear
The idea for the ship is a beefier dread...
this one does more damage has better tank...
can use a capital nuet to make carrier rr a nightmare
plus the siege mod only lasts 5 min so you can get out in a hurry with a lower cap level if you have to bail...

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.02 23:05:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 02/05/2011 23:18:20
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: MeBiatch

The idea for the ship is a beefier dread...


Why are you proposing an entire new class instead of simply fixing the ships that we already have?

Incidentally, there's nothing wrong with dreads that a good hard supercarrier nerf won't fix.


simple if you nerf sc then no one will use them... (just like when they were mom's and no one used them other then for PVE)
a dread costs 1/10 the cost of a SC and it can dock, plus you can insure a dread... imo a ship that costs 10 times, cant be insured, cant dock, should be able to pown the other ship... and if you did nerf sc's then, you will get big fleets of dreads and abbadon/drake fleets and that is just boring...

but if you keep dreads the same and keep sc the same and add in a tech II dread that can tank more do more dps plus use capital nuets (as capital nuets will make rr really hard for cap ships) this will add more flavour to capital fights... (which imo is allways a good thing)

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.05.02 23:29:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch

simple if you nerf sc then no one will use them... (just like when they were mom's and no one used them other then for PVE)
a dread costs 1/10 the cost of a SC and it can dock, plus you can insure a dread... imo a ship that costs 10 times, cant be insured, cant dock, should be able to pown the other ship... and if you did nerf sc's then, you will get big fleets of dreads and abbadon/drake fleets and that is just boring...

but if you keep dreads the same and keep sc the same and add in a tech II dread that can tank more do more dps plus use capital nuets (as capital nuets will make rr really hard for cap ships) this will add more flavour to capital fights... (which imo is allways a good thing)


You know, it is possible to make game balance changes in such a way that we don't get binary overpowered/useless results. And note that if this isn't possible, then your silly Juggernauts proposal will, by your own binary-game-balance argument, result in one of Juggernauts or supercarriers being useless.

And you still haven't explained why you're introducing an entire new class instead of changing one that already exist. I suspect that you're just getting a hardon for the silly ship names that you've proposed.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.05.03 00:49:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III

You know, it is possible to make game balance changes in such a way that we don't get binary overpowered/useless results. And note that if this isn't possible, then your silly Juggernauts proposal will, by your own binary-game-balance argument, result in one of Juggernauts or supercarriers being useless.

And you still haven't explained why you're introducing an entire new class instead of changing one that already exist. I suspect that you're just getting a hardon for the silly ship names that you've proposed.


lets look a the original roll for the dreadnought...
there were introduced back in 2005 under the cold war expansion
As soon as the first Outpost was advertised, the major military equipment manufacturers weren't long to respond with the ultimate tool for them. More correctly, the ultimate tool against them. "Say hello to my little friend" now has a whole new meaning.

dreads were never meant to be anti capital ships they are supposed to be anti stationary objects... which they fit rather well...
sc are supposed to be anti capital with the fb... the reason i would like to see a tech II dread is that there currently is no counter to the sc for price and ability... titans are too expensive and dreads already have a roll so having tech II dreads being a ewar(capital nuet) upgraded dread gives a good balance to sc's... the trick is not to make Juggernauts op so so each ship will have lowered sensor strength to that of their races bs's...


Elmer Dunley Horsekoch
Posted - 2011.05.03 04:18:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Gypsio III
there's nothing wrong with dreads that a good hard supercarrier nerf won't fix.


everyone quote this everywhere thanks in advance


This. This. And.. yeah, this.

The last thing this game needs is a new cap ship class.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.05.03 04:35:00 - [147]
 

Oh... yeah... I've almost forgot...

NERF SUPERCARRIERS!

Thanks for your attention.

quigibow
Posted - 2011.05.03 04:39:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Gypsio III
there's nothing wrong with dreads that a good hard supercarrier nerf won't fix.


everyone quote this everywhere thanks in advance


This. This. And.. yeah, this.

The last thing this game needs is a new cap ship class.


Either give dreads a five min siege mode with extra high slots for this "capital" nuet or give us tech II dreads. I kinda like the idea of a yellowish MorosYARRRR!!

lech lizdian
Posted - 2011.05.03 04:53:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Oh... yeah... I've almost forgot...

NERF SUPERCARRIERS!

Thanks for your attention.


how would you nerf them?
Reduce thier ehp?
Remove FB? Reduce FR damage? Again?

make them go in a siege like mode that allows them to launch fb but makes it so they cant be rr?

What is the Balance you are looking for Dread to SC?
How does do you nerf sc without making them PVE onlyships?

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.03 07:17:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: lech lizdian
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Oh... yeah... I've almost forgot...

NERF SUPERCARRIERS!

Thanks for your attention.


how would you nerf them?
Reduce thier ehp?
Remove FB? Reduce FR damage? Again?

make them go in a siege like mode that allows them to launch fb but makes it so they cant be rr?

What is the Balance you are looking for Dread to SC?
How does do you nerf sc without making them PVE onlyships?


Here's a thread

tl;dr, you don't alter (much) the balance between supercarriers and dreads since supercarriers are supposed to be anti-capital, but you make supercarrier pilots have to decide on their role at the fitting screen rather than a single omni-fit for every occasion, and increase the supercarrier's vulnerability to subcapitals (particularly dictors/hictors) so that they need a proper support fleet to bail them out if they get into trouble.


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