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Natalie Dorgiers
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:41:00 - [181]
 

Dump the "common ores in hisec, rare ores in 0.0" paradigm. Even out the mineral distribution and just affect availability. Gradually reduce the volume of ores in hisec until you see the desired price and population shifts. There are so f'ing many people in hisec (capsuleers and normals) that, if anything, they should be dependent on a constant influx of material from outside empire.

Hisec comes off as a paradise right now, but it should be rife with the problems of overpopulation. Residents there should be at each other's throats fighting over what little ore is left.

Althus Treefingers
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:53:00 - [182]
 

Slowly raise sell, build and research costs in hisec until you get the desired effect. Adjust as needed. Keep hisec safe, but make them pay for it.

Doctor Invictus
Gallente
Industry and Investments
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:12:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Althus Treefingers
Slowly raise sell, build and research costs in hisec until you get the desired effect. Adjust as needed. Keep hisec safe, but make them pay for it.


This.

There are a lot of ways to change the cost/benefit of hisec/nullsec, but at the end of the day the near-perfect safety provided by CONCORD is basically free. On possibility might be to make CONCORD protection a kind of optional insurance that applies within hisec systems. The costs of CONCORD insurance increases as sec-status decreases, or something.

Eperor
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:38:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Doctor Invictus
Originally by: Althus Treefingers
Slowly raise sell, build and research costs in hisec until you get the desired effect. Adjust as needed. Keep hisec safe, but make them pay for it.


This.

There are a lot of ways to change the cost/benefit of hisec/nullsec, but at the end of the day the near-perfect safety provided by CONCORD is basically free. On possibility might be to make CONCORD protection a kind of optional insurance that applies within hisec systems. The costs of CONCORD insurance increases as sec-status decreases, or something.


|YEs there is:
1. As example rise sell taxes both in statio nto the 5 % keep in 0.0 as it is now.
2. Dont alow making alr mision runing corp put up minimum taxe fot them to lets say the same 11% that they cant put it down to 0.0 ( easy to monitore no office in 0.0 so pay 11% tax, dhit dont counts NPC stations only sov station offices counts) Eny way meny 0.0 allainces have taxes in allaince that corps pay. IF corp wiling to get some ting adititonal to cover Office retals etc. Theu will need to increase taxe more than 11%.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2011.06.18 22:14:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Crazy KSK
the things that keepb ppl from bulding stuffin 0.0 are:

first and most important it much too easy to haul stuff from empire jump bridges, and jump freighters make it very easy to haul things



So to buff 0.0 would be to nerf 0.0?

Wouldnt a perfectly fine method of nerfing highsec and minimal nerfing lowsec be a superior method? Suddenly all highsec industry slots cost 15% more materials. While buffing amarr stations so productivity is like insane fast. Currently 30% time bonus. How about 50%? The goal being to keep slots open. If people manage to get 30 day lines on would be like 60 days worth of stuff in highsec.

Suddenly building stuff in POS is meaningful and fighting over moons leads to far more destruction of everything.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.18 22:56:00 - [186]
 

I'll support this, although my faith in anything getting done is practically zero.

C.


lord khnrageX
Amarr
Oblivion Chaos Fleet
STEEL BROTHERHOOD
Posted - 2011.06.19 00:06:00 - [187]
 

Hell yes that way my alliance doesnt have to go all out when we want to get **** down to catch

Demonedges
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:52:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: Demonedges on 24/06/2011 21:15:50
Crazy idea, but hear me through

Change the +5%/+10% variant ores to +25%/+50% for 0.0 ores, +33%/+100% for low-sec ores, and +100%/+200% for high sec ores.

What this means (before mineral price changes come into effect, that will be discussed later)
In high sec, players still can expect about 100 isk/m3 for their ores, no significant changes (the 5/10% variants are gone)

In low sec, the high sec ores will be present but in a 100% increased yield variety, as well as the low sec ores in a 33% increased yield variety.
The high sec ores present will yield about 200 isk/m3, and the low sec ores (currently about 150isk/m3) will be 33% higher, or 200 isk/m3 as well. Add some risk, double your isk...

In 0.0, the high sec ores are present in a 200% increased yield variety, the low sec ores in a 100% increased yield variety, and the current 0.0 ores are increased by 50%. This will mean that high sec ores will be about 300 isk/m3, low sec ores about 300 isk/m3, and 0.0 ores (average at 200 isk/m3... the balance issue of spodumain and dark ochre is a whole new problem) will get a 50% buff to 300 isk/m3.



Obviously some ore redistribution issues would need to be addressed, but this will help with nullsec independence, because nullsec miners will mine low-end minerals. I'd be willing to bet that it's not the zydrine/megacyte that's being shipped from jita to 0.0, it's the trit.


Some problems this will create however, is an abundance of low-end minerals in high sec, as the market demand will drop, dropping prices with it. A solution to this is to increase the mineral demand from ammunition, especially battleship and smaller ammunition. Reason being, ammunition would soak up more of the low-end minerals and leave the high end minerals alone, and increase the overall high-sec mineral demand to partially compensate for the 0.0 exports.

Furthermore, the idea of owning a 0.0 system for a smaller industrial alliance would be significantly more attractive given the massive increase (3x) in profits possible, encouraging more smaller players in 0.0. Even if it is not a very low true-sec system, the 0.0 environment will be more desirable.

Since I deal mostly in T1/Capital ship production, I can't speak for the T2 modules and related issues in terms of logistics, but a few more manufacturing lines (perhaps 1-2 additional lines for every station) would be almost necessary, to compensate for the increased industrial activity in 0.0. Perhaps also an opportunity to have datacores "uploaded" to wherever you happen to be located, instead of only at the agent's base. That could help t2 production in 0.0 and reduce jita dependence. As it is now, either you go to jita for the t2 module, or for the stuff to invent the mod and the materials to build it. Both need to be accessible in 0.0 to make things practical.

Aedeal
Posted - 2011.06.27 09:48:00 - [189]
 

I don't play nullsec, but I can tell you that until resources are distributed evenly, then there will always be a Jita. There's no enough moongoo to saturate 2 markets (though if 2 could be set up that'd be a real improvement). Ontop of that, there's the different regional variations in ice etc, they need moving and distributing from a central point. As to T3 stuff, there's nowhere near enough to saturate just the one market (usually...), if you want to really do T3, get into a WH, or just make friends with WH people and do some trade (hi!).

Regarding the scorched earth ideas, I really think that's something CCP should take a real look into. Currently the way 0.0 sov is fought seems to involve big blobs of supercapitals and all sorts of stuff (yeh, we in WHs laugh at your supers), with the addition of 'mini objectives' to cripple systems economically, based on a timer/cycle method, you reduce the 'entry level' to sov warfare. A gang of rifters fitted out with the module (probably a high slot item, no cloak can be used when it is on? We want fights, not cloaks) could then do some serious damage if it was organised enough. Turn off those iHub upgrades (except the sov ones, that'd be bad), disrupt the asteroid belts, do all sorts of damage. You can fit it into the lore without much trouble, bonus points!

Eperor
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:50:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Eperor on 27/06/2011 11:03:36
[
Originally by: Demonedges In low sec, the high sec ores will be present but in a 100% increased yield variety, as well as the low sec ores in a 33% increased yield variety.
The high sec ores present will yield about 200 isk/m3, and the low sec ores (currently about 150isk/m3) will be 33% higher, or 200 isk/m3 as well. Add some risk, double your isk...

In 0.0, the high sec ores are present in a 200% increased yield variety, the low sec ores in a 100% increased yield variety, and the current 0.0 ores are increased by 50%. This will mean that high sec ores will be about 300 isk/m3, low sec ores about 300 isk/m3, and 0.0 ores (average at 200 isk/m3... the balance issue of spodumain and dark ochre is a whole new problem) will get a 50% buff to 300 isk/m3.



Obviously some ore redistribution issues would need to be addressed, but this will help with nullsec independence, because nullsec miners will mine low-end minerals. I'd be willing to bet that it's not the zydrine/megacyte that's being shipped from jita to 0.0, it's the trit.


Some problems this will create however, is an abundance of low-end minerals in high sec, as the market demand will drop, dropping prices with it. A solution to this is to increase the mineral demand from ammunition, especially battleship and smaller ammunition. Reason being, ammunition would soak up more of the low-end minerals and leave the high end minerals alone, and increase the overall high-sec mineral demand to partially compensate for the 0.0 exports.

Furthermore, the idea of owning a 0.0 system for a smaller industrial alliance would be significantly more attractive given the massive increase (3x) in profits possible, encouraging more smaller players in 0.0. Even if it is not a very low true-sec system, the 0.0 environment will be more desirable.

Since I deal mostly in T1/Capital ship production, I can't speak for the T2 modules and related issues in terms of logistics, but a few more manufacturing lines (perhaps 1-2 additional lines for every station) would be almost necessary, to compensate for the increased industrial activity in 0.0. Perhaps also an opportunity to have datacores "uploaded" to wherever you happen to be located, instead of only at the agent's base. That could help t2 production in 0.0 and reduce jita dependence. As it is now, either you go to jita for the t2 module, or for the stuff to invent the mod and the materials to build it. Both need to be accessible in 0.0 to make things practical.[/quote



need alt more lines in statiions lat more like 30 -50 per station even more.

I producing t2 stuf with my 3 alts so i lone using dalty 30 slots. But eny way with all my expiriinace and effort erning its verry low, soem produckts like t2 ships not even wioth to produce, in jita can get lat cheeper then i can produce them. Modules story verry close to the same as ships. Ammo i not producing but how much i know you can ern with amm araund 150 milj per month wiht 1o slots nonsttop producing for 0.0 market. So prity much if in game will sttay t2 bpos will be not woth to produce ney t2 stuf, seconfd problem wat its in 0.0 for t2 stuf moon go if i wish with corp create my own chains off reactiioins to fully supply my oproduction in 0.0 i need to hold ****ing 45 -60 POSes depned on moon locations etc. spend **** loud off time on them push my members to insane to manage them and all that ****ing houling each day off **** loud off stuf. idont see thae way how t5hat can be changed. second ting there is racial moon go and ice distribtion. thos to need to be changed if soem one wish 0.0 indemended.

Kitt JT
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:45:00 - [191]
 

One (imho) huge problem with 0.0 is afk cloakers. Somebody can essentially go in a good moneymaking system, cloak, go afk, and come back at intermittent points during the day to look for people to gank. This severely inhibits some operations. Something that would fix this would be to make cloaked ships prob-able. Now I don't mean that they would be just as easy to probe as other ships, but the cloak could make their signal strength almost zero, require specialized probes, etc. It should take much longer to scan them down, but still possible. As it stands, you can disrupt an entire system with one character who isn't even at their pc. This is just as unfair as macrominers.

WlliamRyker
Posted - 2011.06.30 13:57:00 - [192]
 

Thumbs up for less dependence on Jita

Sephiroth CloneVII
Posted - 2011.07.03 16:23:00 - [193]
 

Currently living in sov null convected to NPC null, I am now aware of a major problem to any industry in sov (player owned-run) null-sec.

is the huge lack of decent stations, or multiples of them. Even if mineral yields and productivity improves for making items, and lower taxes it still will not work because the lack of decent stations to produce things or do much of anything.

For player owned stations you have a choice between production, reprocessing, science, and offices. Compared with NPC stations that can do just as much (and more in different areas at the same station). Having to reprocess minerals in one station, and then haul it to another is butts, and makes for a horrible factory. Add to that, the hard and arbitrary limit of one station per system.

One NPC system can have 3 factory stations, all with reprocessing capability's in addition to plenty of slots for each one. That can sustain a small alliances needs.

Stations in null sec should be just as good as any in high sec, to start with, and upgraded even better. And multiple in the same system.

If ccp is serious, it can't be the same old same old for stations. In the near future we can walk in stations but the whole issue of them sucking in null will remain the same. Stop nerfing and making the end game content suck, and well it will be more livalbe.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.18 07:30:00 - [194]
 

Speaking from what i have seen in eve, i put forward the following:

Each region (or "group" of regions has its own plusses and minuses. Drone lands has alot of mins, but no conquerable NPC station to be seen anywhere.

Gurrista/sansha/angel/serpentis/blood space all drop nice modules and bouinties, but not alot of minerals.

High sec produces alot of the requirements for T2 construction.

Forexample, in drone lands, you can build a super cap and equip it with T1 or T2 rigs and t1 modules. In serpentis space you can raise the liquid isk to buy such a ship and have the modules on hand to put on it. Check Jita out for T2 modules.

One way i can see that type of ballance being overcome is to have each constellation in every region have different types of rats. Otherwise, one region alliance is going to be dependant on the other regions produce.

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:10:00 - [195]
 

Add destructible mining stations, which can mine unattended.
Add destructible research stations, which will take research away from the POS.
Be able to add missile and turret batteries to these stations to defend them somewhat.

All these structures are separate and independent from a POS and have to placed somewhere else in system.

Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
Posted - 2011.07.28 19:46:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim on 28/07/2011 22:19:56
Some of the problems I see folks repeating a lot in this thread (and I myself agree with):

  1. Mining is not profitable in nullsec due to risk vs. reward.

  2. Nullsec imports almost all low-end minerals from highsec.

  3. Nullsec mining is almost completely done in gravimetric sites, negating the risk/reward aspect of nullsec when it comes to mining.

  4. Tech 2 production is not viable in nullsec.

Solutions:
  • Increase yield of all ore for lowsec and nullsec.

  • Increase low-end mineral yield of high-end ores.

  • Increase ore yield specifically in the belts, make them more profitable than the gravimetric sites.

  • Allow players to anchor POSs near asteroid belts, say, 200km away. This would give miners some cover fire and a place to warp to quickly in the event hostiles enter system.

  • Provide research agents in nullsec.



  • How to prevent these solutions from nerfing highsec:
  • Balance overall ore yield bonus for being in nullsec such that mining in nullsec is profitable enough to cover the risk, but that a substantial amount of minerals still come from highsec.

  • Keep low-end mineral yield from high-end ores lower than yield from low-end ores. example: Spodumain could yield, say, 100x as much tritanium/pyerite--which makes it a significant amount, but leaves it lower than veldspar/scordite. Spodumain also yields some megacyte, making it useful to mine.

  • Provide research agents with the pirate factions, thus making them more difficult to access, but make them more profitable datacores-wise. Easier high-sec agents will still be much used.


  • Originally by: Recursa Recursion
    Arkonor yields 0.09 of Trit versus Veldspar which yields 30+. Tweak say your mid-high tier versions (Gneiss, Spod) to yield on par with Scord or Veld in terms of Trit, Pyer, or Mex per 1 m3. Or upgrade Ark, Bist, and Crok to anywhere from 1-4 Trit, Pyer, or Mex per m3 rather than the puny amounts they yield now. Low Trit / Pyer / Mex yields means import from Jita, plain and simple.


    Originally by: EI Digin
    - Most of the minerals I get are imported from highsec, as are much manufacturers simply because it is wiser for a miner to operate in highsec, risk free, than it is to gain very little more in null for a much higher risk. Players will follow the easiest money; if it is more profitable to mine lower-tier asteroids than higher-tier asteroids, they will go for the lower-tier.

    My simple suggestion would be to make 'roids have much more (or less) minerals in them, based on sec status?, and to drastically increase the amount of minerals that can be mined every cycle.....Miners will always provide a "farms and field" mechanic, they are nice juicy targets for any roaming gang, in lowsec or 0.0.


    Originally by: Sephiroth CloneVII
    make ore in null sec yield double the minerals that of empire variations. And low sec 50% more, as it stands the bottle neck for production in null sec is often trit and pyrite. Miners have no reason to mine trit in lower sec if it is the same profit as empire (where they can do afk much safer).


    Originally by: Scatim Helicon
    Is the possibility of nerfing the **** out of highsec industry at the same time as buffing nullsec industry likely to be on the table here?


    Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite
    In my experience, t1 production can be reasonably done in null-sec. However.....most t1 items just aren't used. Additionally, the limit of low-end minerals makes mining for BS manufacturing extremely hard!

    T2 production in null sec just doesn't happen much. Bringing T2 BPO's into nullsec is typically not worth the risk, and invention requires a significant influx of other materials that you typically can't get locally (decryptors & datacores).


    Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
    From what I understand, T2 production requires datacores. These datacores are only available from research agents in Empire.

    Reaver Glitterstim
    Legio Geminatus
    Posted - 2011.07.28 22:30:00 - [197]
     

    I also think we should make Rorquals something that has to be defended. Perhaps pilots still get boosts from a booster in the same system who is off-grid, but only half as much. So if you have your Rorqual out there in the belt, you get twice the boost from it.

    As far as putting the Rorqual into a POS at the belt, perhaps instead of a normal POS at belts, there could be a specific defensive facility made for belt anchoring. It would be much smaller and cheaper than a POS (so you could have lots of them in one system), but it wouldn't have a big shield around it. Instead it would only provide cover fire, and maybe some mineral storage room.

    Kalle Demos
    Amarr
    Helix Protocol
    Posted - 2011.07.28 23:05:00 - [198]
     

    What exactly am I meant to be supporting?

    Yes I want improvements to 0.0 and while the idea of having "small-gang targets beyond sov structures" sounds good, seeing is believing.

    Besides in 0.0 these days small gang is considered 1000 drakes / maels / supercarriers

    Andrea Roche
    Posted - 2011.08.18 20:17:00 - [199]
     

    Edited by: Andrea Roche on 18/08/2011 20:27:54
    Besides mining been boring as hell, I personally find the idea of having so many mining barges and then having haulers to transport them to a location on and off a pain.
    Its also rarelly cost effective vs time spent. This is not cost effective:
    > Find a nice belt
    > Use barges
    > Use transports to move them
    > Reproses them
    > Produce a product (and btter hope is not tech 2 cos it will take even more time)
    Production takes too long for tech 1, never mind tech 2 items, so moving stuff from high sec is time effective and cost effective so mining is never done and 0.0 is never exploited fully. To fix this you have to change the speed of gathering and moving materials.

    {edited, forgot something}
    Mining barges are very expensive and you need to skill up for a while.
    This is also important concidering they are also very easy to kill.

    Make the time it takes to mine and build cost effective against getting it from high sec and this will be fixed.

    Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Amarr
    Divine Power.
    Atlas.
    Posted - 2011.08.19 01:56:00 - [200]
     

    Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 01:57:12
    I'm gonna repost my post from Features & Ideas because I believe in it that much


    Want to give the biggest boost to nullsec industry possible?

    Ban NPC Corps. Scratch that, make it so that NPC corps are only available to Trial Accounts. If you're still not in a corp by two weeks, or are kicked out of a corp, you become a 'Free Agent' who can be individually wardec'd for a slightly lower fee then dec'ing a corp. Because low-level industry in nullsec will always, no matter what you do, be inferior to highsec industry because a nullsec low/mid miner has to deal with constant threat from other players while in a slow and defenseless ship, deal with the logistics of living in nullsec, and dealing with PVP commitments (or rent) that come with living in 0.0; all while directly competing with an NPC corp in highsec with the exact same ship mining the exact same ore but has zero risk, zero impediments and zero obligations. The only problem for the highsec low/mid miner is that he has to undercut countless of thousands of other NPC corp miners, because all of whom are equally invulnerable (except for the rare Hulkageddon) and thus there is no way for any of them to eliminate their competition. So really, the nullsec miner loses every time.

    Then, high-SP nullsec players, taking advantage of a freighter alt in, again, an NPC Corp can slowly haul the compressed minerals bought at rock bottom prices across New Eden with, again, zero risk to where it can be jump freightered right past lowsec straight into an alliance station safe and sound.

    If these high-SP nullsec supply lines from hisec could be disrupted, say, by not letting their freighters be freakin' invulnerable, it could actually be worthwhile for 0.0 alliances to bring in miners and builders for their own sake. Hisec piracy could expand beyond the suicide gank and hisec miners could command a higher value price for their work instead of grovelling for crumbs.

    Pennock
    Posted - 2011.08.22 04:16:00 - [201]
     

    http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=579110
    I found this old thread and was blown away that it is not already part of the game. A pretty good outline for mining/industry in null sec and all around that was used on EVE evolved. Worth reading

    Tomaso Yoshitome
    Posted - 2011.08.23 15:14:00 - [202]
     

    To boost industrial production in 0.0 - make it possible to cash in your R&D points with an agent at any station or outpost, and change outposts so that you can invent and build in the same outpost. It's the only way to get people producing t2 in 0.0 rather than just shipping everything in from Jita. Also alter moon balances in different regions for basic low-level materials, so that it's possible to build any race's t2 more easily. May also want to consider making it possible to refine and process small amounts of moon goo in an outpost, rather than limited to those who can afford the time and effort to run a whole chain of moon extraction POS'es and a large refining POS. You want more grassroots production, rather than having the extremely high barrier to entry on t2 production in 0.0 as it currently stands.

    All nerfing JB's, and JF's will do is make people spend more time shipping stuff in, with longer and more complex logistical chains, as it will still be easier than producing in 0.0 as things currently stand.

    More carrot, less stick.

    Captain CarlCosmogasm
    Posted - 2011.08.29 18:35:00 - [203]
     

    Edited by: Captain CarlCosmogasm on 29/08/2011 20:17:04
    Edited by: Captain CarlCosmogasm on 29/08/2011 18:38:48
    Edited by: Captain CarlCosmogasm on 29/08/2011 18:38:15
    Originally by: Arkady Sadik
    Scorched Earth...

    Independence from Jita...

    Usage-dependent dynamic agent quality, dynamic factory/research cost, and dynamic sales taxes in empire space would all work towards making it easier to compete with Jita.

    Kajan Tormen pointed out Arkady's dynamic sales tax idea, but all of those are really good and simple ideas.

    Eperor
    Posted - 2011.08.30 10:31:00 - [204]
     


    Provide research agents in nullsec.

    This is smlest problem off t2 production:
    i wil give list off problems that its with t2 prodution in 0.0.

    1. racial distribution off moongoo with needet to create reactions to manufucture t2 stuf.
    2. If corp wish to make inaf reactions to suport his own t2 prodution you need to have atleast 45-60 Large towers and ppl to mange then fuel and clear silos with is redicusly time teking jo, i not telling about logistical night mare to fuel them. And lack off silo capacity for soem reaction with you need check each day even.
    3. ICe racial distribution you cant mine all types off ice in one region or in one system.
    4. t2 BPOs with deving down prices that is t cheeper to buy t2 ships in jita then produce your self.

    Eperor
    Posted - 2011.08.30 10:33:00 - [205]
     

    Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim
    I also think we should make Rorquals something that has to be defended. Perhaps pilots still get boosts from a booster in the same system who is off-grid, but only half as much. So if you have your Rorqual out there in the belt, you get twice the boost from it.

    As far as putting the Rorqual into a POS at the belt, perhaps instead of a normal POS at belts, there could be a specific defensive facility made for belt anchoring. It would be much smaller and cheaper than a POS (so you could have lots of them in one system), but it wouldn't have a big shield around it. Instead it would only provide cover fire, and maybe some mineral storage room.


    no need for this miners nerfed with afk clouckers inaf already, if they wil start lose rorquals in mining ops that will emty 0.0 from miners complitly and this psot and iedeas wil go to hell.

    Eperor
    Posted - 2011.08.30 10:40:00 - [206]
     

    Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 01:57:12
    I'm gonna repost my post from Features & Ideas because I believe in it that much


    Want to give the biggest boost to nullsec industry possible?

    Ban NPC Corps. Scratch that, make it so that NPC corps are only available to Trial Accounts. If you're still not in a corp by two weeks, or are kicked out of a corp, you become a 'Free Agent' who can be individually wardec'd for a slightly lower fee then dec'ing a corp. Because low-level industry in nullsec will always, no matter what you do, be inferior to highsec industry because a nullsec low/mid miner has to deal with constant threat from other players while in a slow and defenseless ship, deal with the logistics of living in nullsec, and dealing with PVP commitments (or rent) that come with living in 0.0; all while directly competing with an NPC corp in highsec with the exact same ship mining the exact same ore but has zero risk, zero impediments and zero obligations. The only problem for the highsec low/mid miner is that he has to undercut countless of thousands of other NPC corp miners, because all of whom are equally invulnerable (except for the rare Hulkageddon) and thus there is no way for any of them to eliminate their competition. So really, the nullsec miner loses every time.

    Then, high-SP nullsec players, taking advantage of a freighter alt in, again, an NPC Corp can slowly haul the compressed minerals bought at rock bottom prices across New Eden with, again, zero risk to where it can be jump freightered right past lowsec straight into an alliance station safe and sound.

    If these high-SP nullsec supply lines from hisec could be disrupted, say, by not letting their freighters be freakin' invulnerable, it could actually be worthwhile for 0.0 alliances to bring in miners and builders for their own sake. Hisec piracy could expand beyond the suicide gank and hisec miners could command a higher value price for their work instead of grovelling for crumbs.


    this wil bring one more ting up will be meny corps with created by one mmber to reduce wardecks on them, and agauin wil not bring enyting to 0.0. perhaps solution to this can be that non alince corps have aditional tax for mision runing or incursioning from npc 11% tax tha they cant create 0 tax corps but have tax eny way and pay it. ader ways already its **** loud off corps hio have 0.0 for msion runing and your proposlal wil just increrase them.

    Brisco County
    The Shadow Plague
    Gentlemen's Agreement
    Posted - 2011.09.03 23:55:00 - [207]
     

    Are we really meant to be 100% independent of empire markets?

    Sor'Ral
    Posted - 2011.09.05 18:30:00 - [208]
     

    Edited by: Sor''Ral on 05/09/2011 20:22:49
    Edited by: Sor''Ral on 05/09/2011 20:16:12
    Edited by: Sor''Ral on 05/09/2011 20:07:56
    Edited by: Sor''Ral on 05/09/2011 19:04:19
    Edited by: Sor''Ral on 05/09/2011 18:30:32
    Originally by: Jakara Nubai
    Edited by: Jakara Nubai on 26/05/2011 00:21:16
    Edited by: Jakara Nubai on 25/05/2011 21:06:02

    ... when you talk to most industrialist they get all dreamy eyed over the thought of one day managing their own outpost or grazing in fields of ABC. So why is it that even though most industrialist want a slice of this variable heaven that they stay holed up in highsec?

    ... Null Sec is currently this vast area of the richest space in Eve waiting to be harnessed by anyone who knows how. Unfortunately, like Africa, its run by warlords and their goons. In order to become a part of the Null Sec team you have to enslave yourself to a larger pvp alliance that will most likely not even protect you if a single neut comes in system looking for an easy kill.



    So how do we allow these small-corp, independent industrialist dreamers to emmigrate to 0.0 and setup their own "outposts"?

    It seems there needs to be a way to have a sort of "small-corp" sov mechanic ... places where only small gangs of ships can fly .... out of the way places where it's possible for a small gang to defend and be attacked by other small gangs ... places where the daily Cap ship / Drake Blob can't simply come in and control everything.



    Proposal:
    "Small-Gang Nullsec Regions"

    Observation:
    Wildlife always thrives best around the "borders" of varied terrain ...

    Goal:
    Increase the variety of "Habitat" available in EVE (and in particular create more "border areas" around Nullsec), to create a more thriving "Ecosystem" where "Wildlife" can live and evolve ...

    Currently all(?) Nullsec systems are connected by Stargates. Also, Cap Ships are able to Jump to all(?) systems (JB's or JD's). Due to this, large Alliances are able to project power without limits ... which leads to a single vast "nullsec wasteland" where all territory is held by a few large Alliances, and with no diversified playing field allowing for small gang warfare, since a Drake or Cap Ship Blob is always just a cyno away at any time (so everyone gravitates into similar Blobs).

    Losec may have been intended as a "border region" but it's actually just an even more deadly "no man's land".

    From what others have said, nerfing JF's, JB's would work against the idea of "attracting and keeping players in Nullsec" due to difficulty of logistics ...

    Learning from the success of WH's at encouraging small gang behaviors though perhaps we could create "small gang nullsec regions".

    These would be territories, isolated somewhat from "normal" nullsec space somehow ... either by severely restricting stargate/jump travel to them, or by making gates/jump drives somehow scale with (major) Sov mechanics (i.e.-you can attack a growing neighboring territory/alliance of small gang regions with your cap fleet/blob, but you might have to build a larger road or upgrade the infrastructure to get there).

    Major regions of nullsec would be tied together by major transport routes (as today) ... but there would just be smaller out of the way regions where major blobs/fleets simply couldn't go (without building a bigger road so to speak).

    As such "small-gang" regions grow in power, they could then move to/join larger Alliance space ...

    Sure, resources wouldn't be as abundant as where the "cap blobs" fly ... but some people don't care as much about wealth, as they do independence ...

    These Small-Gang regions would encourage small gangs of miner corporations, for example, to produce minerals and manufacture things, so sell at nearby "large Alliance" trade hubs ...

    The other nullsec issues (mineral balance, manufacturing slots, etc.) would still need to be addressed, but at least there would be a way for small gangs to participate ...


    Insolvent
    Posted - 2011.09.05 22:16:00 - [209]
     

    Edited by: Insolvent on 05/09/2011 22:19:09
    I didn't read every response but the only way I see of making a rival to jita for null sec players would be to have some of the faction space a defacto hi sec. Where -10 players can go without concord problems and the faction polices any aggro in their system. This space would be entirely seperated from any empire with the only way in through true 0.0. The system should allow for cynos like any other null sec so JF can jump in to provide the necessary goods for sale. Naturally all gates to such a system would be camped to hell so possibly a small cluster of
    systems 3-4 would work.

    I think this would create an extremely attractive hub for null sec. Flame expected

    Sor'Ral
    Posted - 2011.09.05 22:48:00 - [210]
     

    Edited by: Sor''Ral on 05/09/2011 23:20:20
    Originally by: Insolvent
    Edited by: Insolvent on 05/09/2011 22:19:09
    I didn't read every response but the only way I see of making a rival to jita for null sec players would be to have some of the faction space a defacto hi sec. Where -10 players can go without concord problems and the faction polices any aggro in their system. This space would be entirely seperated from any empire with the only way in through true 0.0. The system should allow for cynos like any other null sec so JF can jump in to provide the necessary goods for sale. Naturally all gates to such a system would be camped to hell so possibly a small cluster of
    systems 3-4 would work.

    I think this would create an extremely attractive hub for null sec. Flame expected


    Very interesting .... got me thinking ... but then it seems so much like ... Jita ... hmmmm ... what's wrong with Jita again?

    Seriously tho ... more trade hubs could be cool?


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