open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked Summit Topic: Nullsec Industrialization ("Farms and Fields")
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

Author Topic

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.05.10 10:13:00 - [121]
 

I'm not convinced hacking the main two iHub upgrades is really the path to take. The presence of your gang in system is already affecting the 'farming' of the mining sites and rat sites.
What does that leave?

As I suggested earlier in the thread have new structures to attack and link the sov POS fuel discount to them. Old bonus, new mechanic. New vulnerability.
There could even a small strategic aspect to this if POS stront usage is able to be messed with along with the other fuels...

If they were ever made to work properly and be desirable (or have they already?) the wormhole and DED site upgrades could be made vulnerable to some kind of interference. The way they work means the simple presence of a roaming gang doesn't make them useless - chance based of spawn over time vs constant anom respawn.

bartos100
DARK ADAMA
Terra Axiom
Posted - 2011.05.10 11:05:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Wolodymyr

Also hacking an I-Hub upgrade might take 10 or so minutes



Stopped reading here. There isn't a single entity in the game who can form an effective counter gang, engage and destroy 10-20 ships in 10 minutes. Nor will there ever be. If we assume absolute best case scenario, there are enough people in system to counter the gang, they notice their iHub is being hacked (1 minute) and dock up (1 minute), switch to the exact counter ship they happen to have in station and undock (1 minute), warp to the iHub (1 minute) they now have 6 minutes to wipe out a 10-20 man gang. If people need to come from 2-3 jumps out they aren't even going to get in system in time.

What this comes down to (every time) is you want people to be forced to engage roaming gangs with an inferior gang that will do nothing but pad your killboard. 10 minutes of effort for 1 person to shut down ratting for 6 hours is pants on head ******ed.


i agree but if you need an hour to hack a the ihub you will get dropped by a blob

i would say that the hacking is halted the moment 1 uncloaked ship (no noobship/shuttle) is on grid (something like within 300K of the structure)

that means that you can send in some huge buffered ship to get more time for the rest of the fleet

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.10 11:32:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 10/05/2011 11:35:09
Tie actual production in the system to the industrial index.

If I produce rifters in any facility, the index goes up a teensy bit. If I build a supercapital, the index goes up a huge amount.

Link the ability to anchor certain structures directly to the index. Scrap sovereignty "levels". The TCU goes online and sticks your name in the top right corner when the military index exceeds 1.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 11:49:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: bartos100

i agree but if you need an hour to hack a the ihub you will get dropped by a blob

i would say that the hacking is halted the moment 1 uncloaked ship (no noobship/shuttle) is on grid (something like within 300K of the structure)

that means that you can send in some huge buffered ship to get more time for the rest of the fleet


To give you some credit, this is the most transparant "Alliances should feed me easy killmails whenever I'm in their space" I've ever seen.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.10 12:02:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Its irrelevant what size of entity you're attacking...

Depends which metric you use: geographical size, # on 'show info' or actual active players (not characters).
The ebb and flow of Eve sees numbers change dramatically while size can remain relatively static due to the EHP based blob friendly sovereignty system that favours defenders through jamming, bridges, reships et al.

Efforts involved should be proportional, that much we agree on. Question is how to get the idea of disruption by guerilla warfare through the threadnaughts that are bound to crop up if it is even considered by CCP .. they have a nasty tendency to cave in when the emo's start rampaging.

One could make all iHub upgrades vulnerable with a built in 4hr auto-repair cycle (add manual repair to cut it way down).
Could make it a costly affair to just POS/Dock up when a roam comes around without impacting TZ xenophobes too harshly.

At this point I'll settle for anything that doesn't involve 'lol hot-drop' as the solution to everything from defence to killing ratters Smile

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 12:22:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Yeep
Its irrelevant what size of entity you're attacking...

Depends which metric you use: geographical size, # on 'show info' or actual active players (not characters).



Not really, at the 10 minute mark none of it matters. Unless the system owners are pre-warned you'll be in and out before any meaningful response happens.

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

One could make all iHub upgrades vulnerable with a built in 4hr auto-repair cycle (add manual repair to cut it way down).
Could make it a costly affair to just POS/Dock up when a roam comes around without impacting TZ xenophobes too harshly.



See this I could actually get behind, even without the auto-repair (but not without the manual option). I'd even go as far as to say iHub upgrades aren't really enough damage.

The trouble is it still doesn't incentivise people to actually come fight. People are pushing for longer lasting, unrepairable damage as the solution to that but effects that persist hours after the gang has left remove far too much risk from the equation for the attacker. Instead I'd argue for more severe and widespread disruption for gangs that are willing to commit. If the Sanshas can apply constellation wide reductions to player resists, damage and income, why not have a range of siege-like modules that do similar things (you could even stick the mods in the incursion LP store for added roleplaying). Give it a 1-2 minute cycle , make it aggress and immobilize the ship, even throw up a beacon if needed, then you'll get your fights.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.10 12:59:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Yeep
I'd even go as far as to say iHub upgrades aren't really enough damage...

Even if the upgrade hit was a strategic one? Twisted Evil

Imagine if CSAA's were offlined for the duration (ie. a 3rd state), or bridges only allowed travel in or out of affected system, or jammers allowed Titan bridging but not capital jumps (ie. with cyno/capital revamp), or ... you get the idea (I hope Smile).

Damage from iHub disruption in 'random system X' is negligible but in important systems it could/should be devastating .. just as an attack on a metropolitan area has greater impact than a fire on some farm in the country.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 13:32:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Damage from iHub disruption in 'random system X' is negligible but in important systems it could/should be devastating .. just as an attack on a metropolitan area has greater impact than a fire on some farm in the country.


I was more implying that knocking out iHub upgrades as they stand right now isn't really very much inconvenience (again, assuming they can be repped).

If you're discussing offlining CSAAs then you've strayed back into the realms of attacks that should merit a full alliance response without allowing one to take place. And knocking out jump bridges can be done as is anyway (plus if you're looking for a good fight, you shouldn't be preventing people from bringing one).

The problem with something like destroying an iHub upgrade having lasting effects is that the definition of a reasonable response time changes depending on both the attacker and the defender. You can't balance a high-skillpoint, high isk value fleet incapping an iHub upgrade without making it impossible for everyone else. And likewise you can't balance it for a more reasonable gang without making it impossible to defend against the ~elitepvp~ gang.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:14:00 - [129]
 

Disclaimer: I don't live in Nullsec, I have no idea what I'm talking about, disregard, etc.

... So like.

What if Tritanium was exclusively found in nullsec?

That One Guy
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Yeep
People are pushing for longer lasting, unrepairable damage as the solution


OK we can work out timer length later on. But from what I have been reading people want something that encourages the attacker to field a moderate sized gang, something large enough to defeat one alliance's home defense fleet, but the event doesn't inherently encourage blobbing (other than what's needed to defeat the home defense fleet). So for example hacking a structure always goes at the same rate no matter how big your blob is, while shooting at something with a lot of HP (like a POS) depends entirely on how much DPS your blob can put out.

Part of encouraging the attacker to only field a medium sized gang is to make the reward for completing the event to only be worth it for a moderate sized gang. So the penalty to the defenders needs to only last a little while. Something that is worth it for a small gang to try but not worth calling a CTA for.

Then for the defenders the response time needs to be long enough that one alliance can mount a home defense fleet. But not long enough for them to get a huge blob from whatever power block they are part of.

Also the penalty for the defenders needs to be short enough to only penalize the people who were around when it happened and not people who logged on later on (since there are no reinforcement timers tied to the event). This also fixes the time zone problem. If one dude in a rifter hacks the I-Hub at 3 am when nobody is on, the penalty should only last long enough to effect the handfull of people on at the time who couldn't be bothered to blow up one rifter.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.10 21:08:00 - [131]
 

Okay, I've been sitting here mulling over my random brainfart above.

It is my extremely limited understanding as a highsec carebear that the basic sense of balance is this:

In highsec, you're safe and protected, and the primary industries are in mass produced base stuff.

In nullsec, you're unprotected, and the primary industries are esoteric rare stuff.

What if it were the other way around?


When I think of "farms and fields", I think of the typical way that such things worked in history. You have the cities where everybody meets and trades and a lot of the more advanced industries operate. Then on the outskirts you have the farms and the mines and what have you; The dirty industries. The places where they gather basic resources and produce the stuff you need to survive. The farms fuel the cities.

In Eve, it's pretty much the reverse of this. There are esoteric things you can only get through "dangerous places", but what's the main ingredient that goes into everything? Tritanium, right? It's everywhere. It's also used massively in absolutely everything. But let's suppose, just for a second, that we threw the entire economy on its ass.

What if mineral availability was effectively reversed? This is as much a thought experiment as a serious proposal; In highsec you have your small mineral fields of megacyte and morphite and what have you. On the edges of highsec you start running into noxcium. Around lowsec, you're hitting stuff like mexallon and isogen. Then as you keep going further you start hitting sparse pyerite deposits. Then you get to nullsec. And what do you find there?

Tritanium. Lots and lots of tritanium. And loads of the other minerals too, but mainly, loads and loads of tritanium. Extend this inverse rarity principle to other resources and try to picture what would happen.

Theoretically what would happen is that you'd start seeing mass low end production, not in the safety of highsec, but in nullsec. Living in high security space would be safe and expensive. Living in nullsec would be cheap and easy... besides the lawlessness.

Of course there's tons of **** that gets screwed up with all this, like NPC rats and what have you.. but ultimately, as a fulltime highsec carebear, I can tell you that the biggest draw of highsec is simply that it's safe. It's safe, it's easy, it's relaxing, and it's fairly profitable. This probably shouldn't be. Living in highsec should be expensive. Ships should cost more. Modules should cost more. Everything should cost more, because that's the price of safety.


All this is really just a thought experiment. I wouldn't put it forward as a serious proposal, simply because I know nothing about the practicalities of nullsec. Also, I haven't read the thread at all, so for all I know this is already all being discussed. Or maybe it's just stupid, I don't know.

Anyway, yeah. Looking forward to the summit notes.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:31:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: That One Guy

Part of encouraging the attacker to only field a medium sized gang is to make the reward for completing the event to only be worth it for a moderate sized gang. So the penalty to the defenders needs to only last a little while. Something that is worth it for a small gang to try but not worth calling a CTA for.

Then for the defenders the response time needs to be long enough that one alliance can mount a home defense fleet. But not long enough for them to get a huge blob from whatever power block they are part of.



Yes, but you can balance this for precisely one combination of attacker and defender on precisely one occasion. Ask most of the people in this thread and their fleet size will be roughly what they regularly field, and the response time will be just under what it takes their targets to form a fleet that can beat them. Wider ranging and more severe active disruption is far better than local, persistant damage unless all you want to do is hurt an entity and leave before it can respond.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:41:00 - [133]
 

Between Freighters and Jump Bridges, it just isn't cost effective to mine low end minerals locally for most 0.0 entities.

Being surrounded by friendlies only further adds to the effect. If a more rigid sovereignty system was adopted, forcing sovereignty to be linked directly to adjacent space, hostile wars would be easier to manage and 0.0 alliances would be less inclined to be friends just because they are neighbors.

I will now direct you to Sovereignty 2.0... in my own words: Linkage

Does that need to be modified and updated? Certainly. EvE was very different back in 2005. But the solution is the big picture, not just the individual brush strokes.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:57:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
Between Freighters and Jump Bridges, it just isn't cost effective to mine low end minerals locally for most 0.0 entities.


Before freighters and jump bridges almost all ships were built in empire and we flew them out to 0.0 one by one. It has never been cost effective to mine low ends in 0.0 because you can mine high ends instead and convert them into isk which you can then use to buy ships. Most of the low ends that aren't flown in come from reprocessed rat loot. Being surrounded by friendlies has nothing to do with it.

It isn't too easy to source stuff from empire, its way too hard to produce it locally.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:05:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Before freighters and jump bridges almost all ships were built in empire and we flew them out to 0.0 one by one.


The proletariat did anyway.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:27:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Yeep
Before freighters and jump bridges almost all ships were built in empire and we flew them out to 0.0 one by one.


The proletariat did anyway.


So 0.0 should be painful to live in for anyone but the super rich elite. Which you happen to be one of, because you're elite (obviously).

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:57:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Yeep
..It isn't too easy to source stuff from empire, its way too hard to produce it locally.

Which is what this thread is all about .. some pretty nifty (and some outlandish) ideas already.
Thread as a whole is worth a read if you haven't done so already.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.05.11 10:17:00 - [138]
 

Super Ultra Dense Veldspar .

Trit is a bottleneck in 0.0 , if you cut down logistics there wont be enough of it.

Nomad III
Posted - 2011.05.11 11:33:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Nomad III on 11/05/2011 12:07:51

Assumption
In modern societies specializing is common and to force an entity not to specialize is retarted because everyone can't focussed on that he is able to do best.

The proposition is a failure
The analysis og CCP doesn't start with the goal to get into 0.0 more prodders and miners. It's a idea without a concept.

How we get more carebears into 0.0?
a. analysis
i. According to the game theory no one chooses the maximum profit if the lower profit is more secure. The reason why the carebears aren't producing in 0.0 is, that production in highsec is much cheaper and much more secure. You don't need masses of guards (pvp pilots) and your investment can't be deleted by a random invasion. And every 0.0 allianz is based on, that the assets (BPO) are protected in high sec.

ii. The marked in EVE is not developed and is based on one big hub. Everyone want to have a picture of todays prices and everyone wishes to have a fast access to all types of wares. This is mostly garanteed by the hub Jita. As long as the current game mechanism don't provide a better marked access (It's like in the good old socialistic countries) we will get a tendency for a big hub. And 0.0 entitys are based on Jita too, because they want to sell minerals and moongoo there and buy modules and ships to a good price. It's a center to exchange wares, like Tech against Dyspro. And there is demand by all 0.0 corps that are running reactions.

iii. CCP wishes more PVP but didn't provide something for smaller alliances, because it's impossible as long as "bigger" raising the chances to win a fight. Big coalitions will be rewarded by this system and alliances in big coalitions don't make war against each other. This is contradictionary to CCP's wishes and fundamental.

iv. To produce something in 0.0 includes transport of huge amounts of minerals accross some sytems. It's cheaper to produce in high sec, because the cost in 0.0 are the transporting ship plus the guards. In high sec there is only the working time for one pilot.

b. Proposition
i. Develop the marked. Todays concept is resulting from a time, when CCP had no dedicated server for the marked. Develop a game mechanic that makes it possible to exchange products across sov borders so everyone that has capital can be a part of a global marked. With this proposition allianzes will be able to produce all ships and modules in 0.0. And carebears will be able to produce in 0.0 for every other entity in 0.0. Todays trading system is the death to a globalized marked and forces carebears into high sec, because they can meet each other there. Until now, without Jita an entity in the south hasn't access to Tech and vice versa.

ii Make production in 0.0 much cheaper than in high. Researchtime for BPO's should be shortened in 0.0. Reduce production times and demand for materials in 0.0. so investent in guards for transport will be rewarded by the lesser effort to produce something.

iii. Make it easier to mine and transport minerals, at least one or to years to start a movement to 0.0.

iv.
Change the mechanic that bigger is better. Raise cost at least quadratically for alliances and sov about a certain size. Prefer better strategy over force in fleet battles.

Remark
Specialisation in game is not a problem. It's a problem of the game mechanics that specialisation is located to certain areas like highsec. But to force specialisation into other areas will take away the fun out of game of many players.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.05.20 06:39:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Elzon1 on 20/05/2011 06:46:34
Hopefully you guys aren't too much into the talks, but here goes...

I agree that there should be multiple stations in player owned sov as a possiblility and that they should be buffed.

There also needs to be the possibility of building an industrial empire from a smaller starting point.

I suggest... mini POS's. These "POS's" have no protective shield. These use a small "control center" versus a tower. This is essentially a small modular POS with less cpu and powergrid. Either it could use the regular POS mods or it could use a new set of mods. The mini POS will overall have less defensive capabilities and will operate independently from one another.

Multiple mini POS's can be setup under the control of a single pod pilot. Manufacturing and Research can be done with such mini POS's at a significantly higher rate than normal POS's due to not having to maintain a shield. The mini POS's fuel requirements are significantly reduced compared to a small POS.

Moon mining:

These mini POS's should also be able to do moon mining albeit a bit differently. Instead of the regular select mineral type and start mining it will be more like planetary interaction in that the yields and positions of various minerals change overtime. Each moon has a maximum mineral output that can deplete if used too much, although the moon recovers overtime. Therefore, the mini POS's moon harvesters will need to be repositioned every few hours or sooner depending upon depletion rates. Such moon mineral changes only effect the mini POS's, regular POS moon mining is unaffected by this change.

Since mini POS's are so exposed they are always open to being attacked and looted by small marauding parties. Mini POS's can only be placed so close to each other to prevent overcrowding and to allow the possiblity for a small marauding group to eventually grind through an entire defensive complex. Mini POS's will have a much more rapid onlining times as compared to regular POS's for more active use and readjustments. This will allow for small installations to be rapidly deployed and undeployed to avoid hostile gangs.

Overall, this should allow for nearly infinite production in nullsec and lowsec with a low startup cost. This should allow nullsec to be the industrial juggernaut of new eden.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.05.20 06:42:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Elzon1 on 20/05/2011 06:45:00
Originally by: Elzon1
Hopefully you guys aren't too much into the talks, but here goes...

I agree that there should be multiple stations in player owned sov as a possiblility and that they should be buffed.

There also needs to be the possibility of building an industrial empire from a smaller starting point.

I suggest... mini POS's. These "POS's" have no protective shield. These use a small "control center" versus a tower. This is essentially a small modular POS with less cpu and powergrid. Either it could use the regular POS mods or it could use a new set of mods. The mini POS will overall have less defensive capabilities and will operate independently from one another.

Multiple mini POS's can be setup under the control of a single pod pilot. Manufacturing and Research can be done with such mini POS's at a significantly higher rate than normal POS's due to not having to maintain a shield. The mini POS's fuel requirements are significantly reduced compared to a small POS.

Moon mining:

These mini POS's should also be able to do moon mining albeit a bit differently. Instead of the regular select mineral type and start mining it will be more like planetary interaction in that the yields and positions of various minerals change overtime. Each moon has a maximum mineral output that can deplete if used too much, although the moon recovers overtime. Therefore, the mini POS's moon harvesters will need to be repositioned every few hours or sooner depending upon depletion rates. Such moon mineral changes only effect the mini POS's, regular POS moon mining is unaffected by this change.

Since mini POS's are so exposed they are always open to being attacked and looted by small marauding parties. Mini POS's can only be placed so close to each other to prevent overcrowding and to allow the possiblity for a small marauding group to eventually grind through an entire defensive complex. Mini POS's will have a much more rapid onlining times as compared to regular POS's for more active use and readjustments. This will allow for small installations to be rapidly deployed and undeployed to avoid hostile gangs.

Overall, this should allow for nearly infinite production in nullsec and lowsec with a low startup cost. This should allow nullsec to be the industrial juggernaut of new eden.


Edit: meant to press the edit button, not the quote button Laughing

So, oops double post Embarassed

d4shing
Posted - 2011.05.21 09:33:00 - [142]
 

As a former nullsec builder, here are my two cents:

The worst thing about industry anywhere is the UI. I didn't stop building because it was cheaper/easier to jump stuff in from jita, I stopped because my fingers bleed when individually queueing up 10 identical invent jobs ad infinitum and ****ing with the POS interface.

Slots are an issue if using outposts; and were probably the largest obstacle to building (after carpal tunnel/boredom/misery with the UI). More outposts per system and/or more slots per outpost/more levels of upgrades would be good. I think if there are more outposts, the ability to destroy them becomes more important (I think that feature should be implemented regardless). Or you could just fix POSes and the corp management/security interface so that, for example, someone could install a job without being a "factory manager" having the ability to destroy everyone in the corporation's jobs without leaving a record of having done so. Also modularity is key, because dragging and dropping stuff and having to be within 5k of the POS module is a real pain when you have like 8 labs and 3 chars running jobs -- make them add up to one giant lab module with all the slots and one giant hangar/bucket for all your stuff.

I think dynamic pricing for empire slots is a no-brainer (if you want to queue up a build job in jita 4-4 where wait times are 30 days, that should cost more than an empty station in solitude). It might not push people to nullsec but it will definitely spread people around more. You could even provide a bonus to build time based on sec status to further encourage frontier industry. I think the base price of highsec manufacturing could increase by a factor of 100 and it wouldn't make much of a difference -- something like 100 isk an hour for a build slot is a rounding error. Provide discounts for standing (i don't think there is one atm, right? it only affects refine tax...) and you provide further incentive for people to explore PVE content (sigh, such as it is).

Someone suggested mineral size adjustment; sounds good to me. Make trit much smaller and megacyte much bigger. Mineral compression is kind of stupid and symptomatic of poorly-designed features, imo. Make ore compression better, perhaps, and/or make 25% of minerals inherently unrecoverable upon reprocessing ammo/modules/ships. I think a tweak to the relative abundance and bonus level of the bonus ores is probably also in order -- instead of just +5% and +10% (which doesn't make much of a difference) make them +25% and +50% and greatly reduce their abundance in empire/correlate it to truesec. Also maybe make mining not so boring/lame. Golf and fishing require skill and attention - don't use the fact that people chat while they're bored as an excuse for boring content/gameplay.

But really, first fix the UI.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.05.21 19:52:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Yeep
Before freighters and jump bridges almost all ships were built in empire and we flew them out to 0.0 one by one.


The proletariat did anyway.


So 0.0 should be painful to live in for anyone but the super rich elite. Which you happen to be one of, because you're elite (obviously).


No, 0.0 is about empire building, not camping and then going back to Jita to buy more potato chips.

Build a fracking empire and get rid of the hi sec addiction.

Wrath IX
Posted - 2011.05.22 06:31:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Wrath IX on 22/05/2011 06:48:58
If 0.0 space is about empire building why not give the people who have SOV on a system the ability to deploy some form of field defenses, Like being able to set up defensive structures near fields, gates, and outposts.
Im not talking gate guns like the high sec ones, but letís give these people the ability to actually try to secure a system.

Also on a side note I think that hacking should get some love in null sec. like being able to hack a pos module and force it to go offline. or being able to hack other ships and potentially cause a random module on the target ship to go offline.

Make a covert hacking module so black ops ships can sneak up and do things like disable jump bridges and cut off supply lines.

In terms of farms and fields how about this.
A structure that allows some form of automated mining from a POS, I know that sounds like a bad idea but let me give an example.
You create a new structure (Remote Mining Drone Array) you also create a new type of Mining Drone (think the mining drone equivalent of a Fighter-Bomber) and a new type of probe that can be fired from the probe launcher (Mining Beacon Probe)
So you anchor and online the remote array and fill it with these drones. You then send one of your ships out to tag an asteroid with one of the Mining Beacon Probes. At that point your Remote array can detect the beacons belonging to the same corp or alliance and someone with access can give the pos the command to send the mining drones to harvest that asteroid.
Small Gangs looking to interfere could begin targeting these drones while they are in the field harvesting rock.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.22 07:57:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 22/05/2011 07:57:46

Originally by: Nomad III


b. Proposition
i. Develop the marked. Todays concept is resulting from a time, when CCP had no dedicated server for the marked. Develop a game mechanic that makes it possible to exchange products across sov borders so everyone that has capital can be a part of a global marked. With this proposition allianzes will be able to produce all ships and modules in 0.0. And carebears will be able to produce in 0.0 for every other entity in 0.0. Todays trading system is the death to a globalized marked and forces carebears into high sec, because they can meet each other there. Until now, without Jita an entity in the south hasn't access to Tech and vice versa.

ii Make production in 0.0 much cheaper than in high. Researchtime for BPO's should be shortened in 0.0. Reduce production times and demand for materials in 0.0. so investent in guards for transport will be rewarded by the lesser effort to produce something.

iii. Make it easier to mine and transport minerals, at least one or to years to start a movement to 0.0.

iv.
Change the mechanic that bigger is better. Raise cost at least quadratically for alliances and sov about a certain size. Prefer better strategy over force in fleet battles.

Remark
Specialization in game is not a problem. It's a problem of the game mechanics that specialization is located to certain areas like highsec. But to force specialization into other areas will take away the fun out of game of many players.


Here here! To develop the marke[t], you need more haulers, more traders, and an exchange. There are so many things we need to improve in this interconnected weave of institutions for the economy to work. 1) a trustworthy credit rating agency 2) a functioning banking system. 3) a functioning bounty system, which would create more mercs and escorts as professions, and allow haulers to contract escorts for guard duty. 4) a futures exchange market, all commodity markets depend on it for connecting producers and suppliers, and most of all 5) a system for tracking reputation that isn't as flawed as the current sec status one, so that people can know who they can trust. (of course this does not preclude deceit)

Wrath IX
Posted - 2011.05.22 20:08:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Wrath IX on 22/05/2011 20:10:11
Edited by: Wrath IX on 22/05/2011 20:09:11
Part of this is an issue of people.

They say its not profitable to do production in 0.0 because there is not enough minerals out there to feed the demand.

In reality its that there are not enough miners out in low sec,

think about it this way,

If you counted up all of the ore available for mining in every system in eve I am willing to bet that only 50% or less is actually in High sec empire space. but 90% or more of the miners are in High sec.
So if you really want to get things going, these alliances need to recruit and protect large dedicated mining teams to work their fields.

It would be nice if they could be able to place some defensive structures out in the fields to help protect the miners. If you actually had people defending the miners there would be no issue of not enough minerals available locally.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.22 20:50:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Wrath IX
....

You missed the part about mining being the single most boring facet of Eve.
So boring in fact that even legitimate miners have dabbled with botting and hugely inefficient AFK mining using haulers.

It is like saying that people in Siberia need not freeze during winter because there are loads of trees all over the place Smile

Wrath IX
Posted - 2011.05.23 04:35:00 - [148]
 

Mining being boring is a given, but lets be honest. Its not that there isn't enough Ore out in Null sec space, I mean I have been out there and see the huge fields just filled with resources.

The Difference is that there is no real incentive for the real hardcore mining corps to come out there and work it.

I have seen huge mining operations devour the rocks through several systems, three Orca, and dozens of Hulks mining as a group can move hundreds of millions of cubic meters of rock per hour.

but if an alliance isn't going to make it worth their while whats the point of taking the risk

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.23 16:59:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 23/05/2011 17:03:09
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Here here! To develop the marke[t], you need more haulers, more traders, and an exchange. There are so many things we need to improve in this interconnected weave of institutions for the economy to work. 1) a trustworthy credit rating agency 2) a functioning banking system. 3) a functioning bounty system, which would create more mercs and escorts as professions, and allow haulers to contract escorts for guard duty. 4) a futures exchange market, all commodity markets depend on it for connecting producers and suppliers, and most of all 5) a system for tracking reputation that isn't as flawed as the current sec status one, so that people can know who they can trust. (of course this does not preclude deceit)

Most players did not sign up to play ice road truckers in space. Hauling is not fun. Escort duty is not fun. The more hauling, the more escort, the less fighting. Anything that messes with the amount of dead ships per hour is going to be a big jolt to the market. This would do that.

Originally by: Wrath IX
Mining being boring is a given, but lets be honest. Its not that there isn't enough Ore out in Null sec space, I mean I have been out there and see the huge fields just filled with resources.

The Difference is that there is no real incentive for the real hardcore mining corps to come out there and work it.

I have seen huge mining operations devour the rocks through several systems, three Orca, and dozens of Hulks mining as a group can move hundreds of millions of cubic meters of rock per hour.

but if an alliance isn't going to make it worth their while whats the point of taking the risk

Why is it the job of an alliance to make mining worth the risk? What incentive is there for the alliance? If CCP wants people in null sec, then there needs to be carrots in the game for being in null. If they want people to mine low end ores in null, then they either need to get rid of the high ends that we mine (because you make a lot more per hour doing that) or dramatically increase the load/hour you get from low ends in null.

Tub Chil
Posted - 2011.05.23 17:20:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Tub Chil on 23/05/2011 17:21:01
I'm not sure it it's possible to encourage industry in nullsec without nerfing hisec industry. CCP approach obviously is to nerf freighters and jump gates, but i don't think it will work. did people manufacture stuff in nullsec before jb-s? (seriously, I didn't play back then)

so reduce slots in hisec, add taxes in hisec, if you want to buff nullsec. not sure if it's good for game tho


Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only