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Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Sirion Fujiwara on 18/04/2011 10:20:34



1. How many T2 BPO's have been injected into the game over the years?

2. If a T2 BPO is destroyed (say in a ship explosion), does it ever get replaced anywhere in game?


My point here is that if T2 BPO's get destroyed on a regular basis (which I am assuming they do), then over the long term the attrition in the overall numbers will mean that T2 BPO's will become extortionately expensive.
Also, the few that are left will be held by a couple of corps that can then litterally dictate market prices, because there is no competition to worry about.

I realise this is difficult to answer, so I would ask anyone who thinks they have a handle on this for say Wrath Fury Cruise Missile BPO's, or Ogre II BPO's, or Falcon BPO's or anything else really, to provie some sort of feedback for the two quaestions above.

Thanks

P.S. Obviously, it would be of use if someone from CCP could throw some light on this issue as well...

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:23:00 - [2]
 

1) only ccp know
possibly 8 or each ship, 16 each mod , 32 each ammo
2) no
3) they don't get destroyed though some will go with banned accounts and people stopping playing
4) ccp won't comment

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:28:00 - [3]
 

A bigger factor would imo be that T2 BPO's are gradually falling into the hands of collectors who, in general, probably don't put them to full use if at all.

Samroski
Games Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:28:00 - [4]
 

The number of T2 BPOs was discussed recently in Market Discussions. Another recent discussion on removal of T2 BPOs may also interest you.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:29:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara

Also, the few that are left will be held by a couple of corps that can then litterally dictate market prices, because there is no competition to worry about.


You mean with the tiny % of market share that can be supplied by a few bpos?

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2011.04.18 11:02:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Also, the few that are left will be held by a couple of corps that can then litterally dictate market prices, because there is no competition to worry about.
Originally by: Doddy
You mean with the tiny % of market share that can be supplied by a few bpos?
A matter well discussed in Market Discussion. Invention was an elegant solution to the mistake that the T2 lottery became. Invention allows dynamic competition while T2 originals allow for some market stability.

Samroski
Games Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.18 11:03:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Samroski on 18/04/2011 11:21:25
Originally by: Doddy

You mean with the tiny % of market share that can be supplied by a few bpos?

According to the link above there are about 10,000 T2 BPOs in the game.

Looking at the breakdown of the BPOs, it is possible that in some categories the T2 BPO production significantly impacts the market. For items with large trade volumes, the T2 BPOs may have a tiny share of the market.

Also: CCP is highly unlikely to comment on this imho. CCP love leaving such things unknown.

Edit: Rumours of T2 BPO removal may prevent them from becoming prohibitively expensive. Having said this, I have this great desire to own one. Even though I know that I'd have to produce day and night for 10 years to get some profit out of it :)

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:49:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: sableye on 18/04/2011 12:49:38
alot of them probably inactive I got a few ammo ones and I never built anything from them at all just dumped them in a station.

UPS Hauler
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:53:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara


P.S. Obviously, it would be of use if someone from CCP could throw some light on this issue as well...


I'm sure they will rush on over here to discuss a topic that doesn't need discussing simply because the great Sirion Fujiwara requested it.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: sableye
Edited by: sableye on 18/04/2011 12:49:38
alot of them probably inactive I got a few ammo ones and I never built anything from them at all just dumped them in a station.

I could take them off your hands and split the profits with you if you want. [you keep the rights to the bpo] - depending on print etc...

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.18 13:08:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Samroski
Rumours of T2 BPO removal may prevent them from becoming prohibitively expensive.


Given that you essentially cant own one without having a corp pony up the dough, what do you consider not prohibitively expensive O.o

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2011.04.18 13:49:00 - [12]
 

i think someone attempted to sell a tech 2 bpo for hulks several months ago, even a fully developed both in Me and Pe someone run the numbers and came with the conclusion that you'll get the profit in around 1,5/2 years time span...

probably my memories and numbers are wrong but it gives you an overall idea.

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.04.18 13:53:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara

Also, the few that are left will be held by a couple of corps that can then litterally dictate market prices, because there is no competition to worry about.


You mean with the tiny % of market share that can be supplied by a few bpos?


Only an idiot or an uninformed blow-hard would say this since the T2 QEN a while back pointed out over 33% of all T2 ships came from BPOs - not exactly a "tiny %".

Declan Intaki
Posted - 2011.04.18 14:02:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: UPS Hauler
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara


P.S. Obviously, it would be of use if someone from CCP could throw some light on this issue as well...


I'm sure they will rush on over here to discuss a topic that doesn't need discussing simply because the great Sirion Fujiwara requested it.



Now now...
There's no need to get personal. It was a perfectly valid point to make.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.18 14:05:00 - [15]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1360780
I see that this needs to be linked YET AGAIN...

Anzha lyu Mitethe
Posted - 2011.04.18 14:13:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Anzha lyu Mitethe on 18/04/2011 14:31:47
Originally by: Samroski
Looking at the breakdown of the BPOs, it is possible that in some categories the T2 BPO production significantly impacts the market. For items with large trade volumes, the T2 BPOs may have a tiny share of the market.


So in these low demand markets (50mm Armor Plate II, Passive Targeter II, and Sm Hull Rep II come to mind), do you see the status quo as a bad thing?
On one hand we have the T2 BPO holders who have a lock on the market, but must keep a low volume market well supplied in order to keep that lock, and to get a return on their investment.
On the other hand we have the inventors, who can stick to higher volume products where the profits are, but will be quick to keep the BPO holders in check if they get too greedy.
Myself, I don't see an issue.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:11:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Invention was an elegant solution to the mistake that the T2 lottery became.


Became? It was a stupid idea from day one.

Invention works for exactly the same reason the lottery didn't - it CAN be verified to work. ie player puts effort in, player gets commensurate reward over the period.

In the lottery that didn't happen because (IIRC) someone else in your tech field got a BPO then you could be pretty sure you wouldn't be getting that again anytime soon. A few "wins" in the field by others and you could be wasting your time for months.

Frankly the margins on most T2 items have been driven so low by inventors that purchasing the BPO makes no economic sense.

Sections of Eve are (and have been for years) awash with ISK so dropping 50bill on a BPO is a nice easy way to maintain the value of the initial investment without effort. In short its held to mitigate inflation as the price of T2 BPOs pretty much follow the ISK supply (as in how much is circulating). The more people who do this the better.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Samroski
Edit: Rumours of T2 BPO removal may prevent them from becoming prohibitively expensive.


Rumour is false, so stop spreading it.

Puppet Mas'ter
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:19:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Puppet Mas''ter on 18/04/2011 15:20:46
Originally by: Akita T
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1360780
I see that this needs to be linked YET AGAIN...


I dont see that it did... that thread you posted there was about why ppl should remove the BPOs. The only time thats been referrenced here was as to a rumor that they would.

Toot your own threads elsewhere lol

An my math may be wrong here but the lottery seems to have died around the time of the T20 scandal. When I was playing back then, I dont remember reading all that many hand wringing threads over how much the lottery system sucked

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:25:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Invention was an elegant solution


Elegant and invention in the same sentence... what will you think of next?

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:26:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Puppet Mas'ter
An my math may be wrong here but the lottery seems to have died around the time of the T20 scandal. When I was playing back then, I dont remember reading all that many hand wringing threads over how much the lottery system sucked


Are you Nicholas Cage or something? You needed to do some math to figure out when the lottery ended?

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:30:00 - [22]
 

T2 BPOs isn't the problem, static and unlimited moon mining is.

Flood the market with T2 BPOs I don't care but remove mine and I will unsub and quit the game.

Puppet Mas'ter
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:40:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Puppet Mas'ter
An my math may be wrong here but the lottery seems to have died around the time of the T20 scandal. When I was playing back then, I dont remember reading all that many hand wringing threads over how much the lottery system sucked


Are you Nicholas Cage or something? You needed to do some math to figure out when the lottery ended?


How does math have anything to do with domestic battery charges?

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:53:00 - [24]
 

Some simple facts.

Due to the number of T2 BPO's they have limits on how they can influence the market.

BPO's have a limit to the number they can produce an hour.
Effectively invention has 0 limits on how many can be produced in an hour.

So the only way a T2 BPO could influence the market is if the number of items traded is very low.
I believe this is happening with some ships.
However those prices must remain low because if the BPO owner sets there prices too high then invention will become viable.

Good example is Hulks before invention they where going for 500 mill now they are around 150 mill, (so profit they will earn but not as much as before)

The whole T2 BPO are evil line is completely false.

In actual fact a vast majority of under cutting is done by inventors not BPO owners.
Example - look @ the T1 ship market and how many discussions have gone on about people stating the minerals they mine are free, therefore they can set the price @ ....
You think this isn't happening with T2 items and rigs and T2 ships ???
Reality check folks, it happens every day.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:59:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
Example - look @ the T1 ship market and how many discussions have gone on about people stating the minerals they mine are free, therefore they can set the price @ ....


You were doing fine until you got to this point

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:03:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Simetraz
Example - look @ the T1 ship market and how many discussions have gone on about people stating the minerals they mine are free, therefore they can set the price @ ....

You were doing fine until you got to this point

Nah, that was almost certainly meant as an insult towards people claiming the minerals they mine are free therefore worthless therefore any sales price is their actual manufacture profit.
Wink

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Simetraz
Example - look @ the T1 ship market and how many discussions have gone on about people stating the minerals they mine are free, therefore they can set the price @ ....


You were doing fine until you got to this point


Oh come on how often have you looked @ an item on the market to find out you could have sold the minerals or parts for a larger profit margin then the ship/item itself.

Rohnda
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Akita T
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1360780
I see that this needs to be linked YET AGAIN...


i second this, and someone said bpo's currently supply 30% of all t2 ships in eve and said its not a tiny portion, okey tiny might have been the wrong word, Minority of the t2 ships in eve are supplied by t2 bpo's, Which in terms means its not gamebreaking in anyway, likewise the market would stabilise quickly(perhaps at new prices) if they where removed..

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:27:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Simetraz
Example - look @ the T1 ship market and how many discussions have gone on about people stating the minerals they mine are free, therefore they can set the price @ ....


You were doing fine until you got to this point


Oh come on how often have you looked @ an item on the market to find out you could have sold the minerals or parts for a larger profit margin then the ship/item itself.


I'm not saying that its a bad argument but I'm trying to say that merging 2 different discussion (invention vs t2 bpo and free mineral vs mining time is valued) is probably something that should remain separated.

Envoy Achates
Posted - 2011.04.18 17:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
Originally by: sableye
Edited by: sableye on 18/04/2011 12:49:38
alot of them probably inactive I got a few ammo ones and I never built anything from them at all just dumped them in a station.

I could take them off your hands and split the profits with you if you want. [you keep the rights to the bpo] - depending on print etc...

Hint - he is full of ****, don't take anything he posts seriously...


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