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Gevlin
Minmatar
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.04.18 09:07:00 - [1]
 

Change in game to make Null sec entry for Small Alliances Easier
Hope the following is written in a proactive manner contains limited Tinfoil hat Attitude.

Executive Summary

Core Problem:
The resources to have major battles over are in place, ie Tech Moons, Stations and larger alliances gobble them up and use them heavily to help fund their PVP players. These promote beautiful large battles. The Problem the smaller, newb, just starting out alliance have to support their PVP the hard way, spend countless hours to Mine, and PVE for it. These incomes are easier to attain thanks to ability to resource building though Dominion but didn't this didn't protect these Small Alliances from larger alliances easy to used tactics like: though afk cloakers and hot drop Titian fleets.

Solution theme request:
Put features in the game that give:
-->Bonus to an alliance, core systems 1-5 Solar Systems.
-->-->So as an Alliance grows beyond its initial growth stage the benefits become less important the bigger they become.
-->Provide Ships and equipment that are more fragile/ inferior ones controlled by larger Power Blocks,
-->-->Titian Bridges minus the Titian. POS Based Clone Bays,
-->Provide tools/system upgrades that can be easily damaged and repaired by some blue collar work. Give the infer-structure partial weakness options not just – There or not there.
-->--> Auto Resource Collection Damping units, Able to Shoot structures, POS, Infrastructures components that allowed produce lessen effects or cost more to maintain if damaged.

\/THE GREAT WALL OF TEXT \/

THE SOB BACK STORY
Life as a member of a Small alliance it is tough.
We are so small that we can be suppressed easily and we don't have the resources to make it out on our own compared to the big blocks.
To survive we need to join a pact with a larger alliance as a pet and just hope the we get treated well and the enemy block does not lock it's eyes on us.
Currently there is no diminishing returns on the growing you alliance larger, resulting in large alliances being formed to to be able to share resources and create land buffer zones to either force the enemy to jump a few to systems of lightly populated Carebearing content so the Intel channels can report them or have enough space so that if an opponent tries to suppress them (ie AFK Cloakers,) The Alliance can simply shift its care bears members from one system to the other.

Face it; in a harsh world there is safety in numbers, in nullsec bigger is better. There are very few things that become less effective as an organization grows.
Pre-Dominion Large alliance could hold vasts volumes of space reasonably cheaply. And Crap space was just plugged up just so there would be a “Land base Barrier” to protect vs Roams. If there was trouble you could simple blob it out at your convenience.
Post Dominion – it removed the ease to just grab space. The cost was much higher and the Sov System allowed for upgrading a system that allowed alliances to take up less space. The ones able to leverage this advantage though, was the Larger Alliances as they had resources to upgrade the systems simply.


For the few “Organized” Smaller alliance also took advantage of this allowing them to build up a system of their own crap system to be able to function in a section of space. Though they had to bargain with the local power block to allow them to be there as the asset.

Sadly this only worked well in isolated regions of space which the Larger power block too the opportunity and organized renter power blocks that allowed them dedicate some tools like Jumpbridges to assist there renter alliance to turn isk and were in return able to charge an arm and a leg in rent. As a strong side benefit, it made Blue Lists a lot simpler.

To be Continued....

Couch Jason'Acinom
Posted - 2011.04.18 09:11:00 - [2]
 


Sadly the game play issues that would be used commonly to shut down small alliances were never addressed.
-->There are limited mobility options that don't required large alliance ships and Assets
-->There is no option for a small/starter alliance to fortify its self in its starting location.
-->There are limited options for small roam objectives that can have an effect on a larger alliance with out being curb stompted while in the the process.


The Following are Issues that if address can assist smaller alliances, while not taking away from the Large Alliances but only giving them marginal benefits.

I will List the General Issue and then Follow up with possible micro issues to fix.

Mobility -
AS IT IS:
Only Large Alliances can set up supply routes though Jump Bridges. Smaller Alliances have to rely on these larger alliances to get out into their territories. The Jump Network set up by Larger Alliances has been a big help in this area, but has crushed any idea of small alliance independence it they wish to stand on their own. If we the small alliance wants to do close to home PVP and turn on our Larger alliance allys we will be cut off from the Nipple of empire for sustaining ourselves. Only the Large alliances have the power to Force Project them selves into distance fights with Titian Jump Bridges, so it is either travel for ages or blob with the big boys. We need to make travel in eve more Fluid put more options in the hands for Small roams to go, enjoying in the harassment in some locations away from the well travelled path. (grass can't grow on a well travelled trail) and opening up access to others. Need to put Force Projection Capabilities in the hands of the poorer man.

THE PROBLEM
A small alliance is crippled if it wants to be compete or stand on its own from the major power blocks.
THE PROPOSED SOLUTION:
Give cheaper tools to help smaller alliances become more mobile ie:
-->Give Jump Clone Vats (like the Rorquals) to carriers:
-->--> So that small alliances can load a bunch of ships and pilots and force project near the battle location, to rally their troops, then attack. (Larger Alliances currently use Jump Bridges and Titian Bridges to accomplish jumping right into combat.) This will allow help in getting Alliances set up to move out.
-->Defenceless Jump Bridge Ship
-->-->Produce a Fragile Jump Bridge Ship which is Based on a weakened Jump Freighter Chassy that needs escort of fueling ships, Has short a spool Up timer making it less efficient time wise than a titan (making more of a target Roams),Jump Bridge Ship can't to stay behind, and can only project None Capital Size ships. (That is what Jump Freighters are for.)
-->-->This would allow a smaller alliance independence from the Larger block to move material past standard Bottle necks and remove the need to rely on the infrastructure of a larger Power block. (This ships would be super juicy target, it would required an escort, and would reward those smaller roams with a target, that would be worth while to suicide kill.
-->-->Clone Bays for POSs. (required null sec Status to install)
As a small alliance you will not have the resource to build a Station and a have to rely on larger block alliances for an office or a station to jump clone to. If a Limited POS clone bay like the Rorqual Clone bay (holds max 5-10) Bodies, would be fantastic. Small alliance member get popped and then podded, he may end up in his death clone in Empire but can clone jump, w/o implants into his pos where he must install another back up jump clone. (This would be less effective than a station clone but would allow a small alliance to take more risks and PVP in Null sec with out the worry of loosing EVERTHING because of 1 podding

Couch Jason'Acinom
Posted - 2011.04.18 09:15:00 - [3]
 

--> Alliance Hanger for POSs,
-->-->Allow a single container, like a no Tabs Corporate hanger array. That the Alliance can Place in and Take out items. Personally I am a Alliance Mining Co-coordinator. Conduct a local or a remote mining op often becomes challenge because when the POS which is storing the Ore does not belong to the Corp who is compressing or Moving the ore out of the mining system. . Password-able would be nice but not necessary.
Often an Alliance will sponsor an Alliance safe POS to work out of and provide a staging area for its member corps, Having a Communal Alliance Hanger gives a way to leave something for some one else in a POS Like ore for me to compress two hours later.
-->--> More Real Space to Real space Worm Holes
For a small alliance out in Un Populated space ie Drone Regions or Insmother, an independent alliance looks forward to scanning down a worm hole to empire to move stuff in and out. For Null sec roaming fleets find a Worm hold leading to some null sec back water location, now has fresh spot to roam to kill targets Deep in Some neutrals territory. I would avoid more WH space to RS worm holes as that lessens the current nitche of worm holes.

Security – Let us build Towers not Castles.
THE PROBLEM
A small alliance has to work system to make its money for PVP. A hand full of AFK Cloakers, and Rich Force Projecting Alliances can quickly starve an alliance into submission unlike larger alliances they don't have moons or other passive income (ie renters) they quickly Fall and crumble. The 0.0 Rules as they Sit now make life out side the larger alliances hard.

THE PROPOSED SOLUTION:
Allow alliances to Fortify their Principle Constellation and Capital Solar system to give them a safer rally point and home system to work out of. These proposals won't stop the crushing on an alliance but will make it more difficult. This will encourage larger Power blocks to permit smaller Alliances to set up on their boarders as the smaller alliances are able to provide Fortified systems in Mass where the larger Alliance would only be able to provide 1 secured Constellation.
-->Dominion Suggestion: Capital Constellations (A Watched Constellation)
-->-->Allow 1 Alliance to upgrade with fortifications 1 Constellation under their ownership to provide information on this watched system. Ie the area a Tower Watches. Example Ideas are:
-->-->--> A POS Beacon that can Pulse Overloading All cloaking systems, friendly or enemy at intervals not less than 30 mins. (Helps remove AFK Cloakers.) .
-->-->-->POS module able to be turned on to Jam Passive local, so when enemies come they can't tell easily tell if the area is populated. (On the other hand when the enemy is there the Host System may not know that hostiles unless the Passive local Jammer is turned off.)

-->Dominion Suggestion: Capital System (A Guarded System)
-->-->Make 1 system on an Alliance of a Capital Constellations be fortify-able:Their Capital System, The ultimate safe spot where they can rally, grind. If the enemy wants to shut down the alliance it will take more than 1 afk cloaker and a few Super Carriers on standby. Since people are not spinning in a station they can possibly work, then there should be more roaming targets.
(This is our last line of defence, our Keep, if it falls all is lost)(in Poker terms: I AM ALL IN)
-->-->--> Allow Empire Upgrades like Gate and Station Guns in the 1 system,
-->-->-->Have an NPC Response Force to attack on Alliance players (Ship need to be built and installed by Alliance members) [High upkeep tax] for the NPC police force to die in (using rat AI).
-->-->Allow in this 1 system the members of the alliance have a stronger advantage, Command bonuses Provided via POS Module making them faster, Deadlier, Not easy to find.
-->-->-->Allow discounted Cyno Jams for this 1 system.

Gevlin
Minmatar
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.04.18 09:18:00 - [4]
 


-->Dominion Suggestion: Treaties
-->--> Not sure how beneficial this will be for the work involved, though. As the out of game politics and diplomacy, in use currently may be adequate. I did a little diplomacy work and didn't like it. And I am worried that a Treaty system may “Dumb down” the game eliminate the role of diplomats



THE PROBLEM
Non Blob Targets – Small Alliances can't field too large of a fleet to do something, leaving them to blob up with the major power block. Currently Small gang Roam are essentially “reactive PVP,” you need some one to be doing PVE or looking for another small gang roam to shoot.” There are no small gang targets a Person can say “ I am going to blow up “this” to day. who is with me!”

THE PROPOSED SOLUTION:
Provide objectives smaller PVP alliance / roaming groups to accomplish.

--> Damaging Infer-structure –
-->-->Modify Structures so a small gang and shoot at them, – damage their fine tuning – and make the structure less efficient.
-->-->--> Jump Bridge – Destroy its alignment causing the Jump bridge to used double the Liquid Ozone required for Jumping,
-->-->--> Shooting the Mod on an Infrastructure Hub will cause it the index to drop faster or a benefit work 50% of the time, or a lesser effect till repaired)
-->--> Allowing Deployed Items which will disrupt an effect and takes a bit to Destroy, resulting in offensive escort roams.
-->-->--> Deployable Module that can be deployed to partially Disrupt an opponents moon mining operation (Drop by 50%). Ie a Lunar Module that deploys like PI but needs orbital Bombardment to be removed.- Requiring a Dreadnaught.
-->-->-->Build a Suicide ship that can goto a structure, self destruct and put it out of alignment till it is repaired. (this now becomes a Non Industrial escort roam of a fragile ship)

Gevlin
Minmatar
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.04.18 09:21:00 - [5]
 

DOH - I think I may have have just posted in the wrong section. Sorry.Embarassed

Beowulf scot
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.03 14:29:00 - [6]
 

Back in the day before T2 and all the new stuff it was possable to pass through 20 systems in 0.0 before you came across anyone. Instead of fancy modules and stuff why not just introduce more systems, that would enable smaller alliances to grab a bit of space as hopefully the bigger alliances would be to stretched to protect huge areas of the map. Apart from Drone space has any other area been open up since the Great Nothern War? We had 10k people on line back then with almost the same area of space, so now that there is 40k people how about opening up some more space.

Driden Fas
Posted - 2011.06.03 15:12:00 - [7]
 

Possibly you might want to change the sovreignty upkeep system so it works in a similar way to the way wars work, with the alliance claiming sovreignty being charged more for each new system they claim. So for example, while an alliance with one system would pay less than the current ammount, maybe 200mil/month, each new system would cost 250mil/month for the 2nd and 300mil/month for the 3rd and so on until it becomes financially unattractive for the alliance to control a lot of space that they don't use.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.06.03 19:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Driden Fas
Possibly you might want to change the sovreignty upkeep system so it works in a similar way to the way wars work, with the alliance claiming sovreignty being charged more for each new system they claim. So for example, while an alliance with one system would pay less than the current ammount, maybe 200mil/month, each new system would cost 250mil/month for the 2nd and 300mil/month for the 3rd and so on until it becomes financially unattractive for the alliance to control a lot of space that they don't use.


And then you'd just have thousands of alliances with two systems. TNT., TNT.., TNT... etc etc.

Inur Plex
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:41:00 - [9]
 

As I said in my thread - just get rid of docking permissions.

That is all you need to do to make it easier for smaller corps to live in null space. From the perspective of a corp that doesn't really care about building a SOV empire, but only wants to live in null space, such a change would be the equivalent of making the entirety of null space into NPC SOV.

There is a reason that so many neutrals go to Curse - NPC sov adjacent to Empire. Even with Doril/Sendaya camped every day - plenty of neuts flow through that gate and dock up perfectly safely in any of the dozen stations nearby. There is a reason that Curse is such a great region - and it has nothing to do with Angel Rats.

Nariya Kentaya
Coalition Of Gentlemen.
Posted - 2011.06.04 01:35:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Inur Plex
As I said in my thread - just get rid of docking permissions.

That is all you need to do to make it easier for smaller corps to live in null space. From the perspective of a corp that doesn't really care about building a SOV empire, but only wants to live in null space, such a change would be the equivalent of making the entirety of null space into NPC SOV.

There is a reason that so many neutrals go to Curse - NPC sov adjacent to Empire. Even with Doril/Sendaya camped every day - plenty of neuts flow through that gate and dock up perfectly safely in any of the dozen stations nearby. There is a reason that Curse is such a great region - and it has nothing to do with Angel Rats.


and as i said in RESPONSE to your threa, whole point of 0.0 is to allow the players to have SOV and make their own rules, what your wanting is to mae 0.0 NPC space pretty much, which is stupid, because then we may as well not even have 0.0. te whole idea of making your won rules and doing things how yo want is the essence of 0.0.

now i do agree that docking permissions could be OPTIONAL, like some people whod ont really care who is in their system can put out docking fees, but removing docking permissions entirely is stupid, if i dont want you in i shouldnt be forced t let you if yo ahve enough in your wallet (because lets face it, most 0.0 corps have ALO of isk, so an meager fee that woudl allow smaller alliances to roam from outpost to outpost would not ebnefit the corps as you sad in your thread.)

and on topic of this thread, if you wanna make it as a small corp in 0.0, get soe battleships or other heavier hitters, and wait til large alliance throws around a large bulk of its leet attacking another power-bloc, then you go inand sat abshing POS in a ssytem you want far from their battle, now as longa s you are attacking one of the power-blocs that isnt too bright in troop placement (yo know who you are), then mos of the caps will be in the main battle and be forced to either A) sacrifice the system your hitting or B) sed troopps and risk losing the battle theyre removing troops from.

though my opinion isnt all that heavy due to me never really spending much time in 0.0.

Inur Plex
Posted - 2011.06.04 04:28:00 - [11]
 

On one extreme, you could build a system which gives SOV holders complete control of systems - including locking the stargates or placing guns around them. On the other extreme, you have a system where 100% of systems are controlled by NPC factions (some will be law-abiding, others would be pirate, but none would be Player controlled).

EVE is currently in the middle, with regards to 0.0 SOV. I'm not arguing that it should go to either extreme, but if a widely held goal is to make 0.0 space more accessible - the answer is extremely simple: get rid of docking permissions.

So what if you want to lock players out of your stations? I want to anchor guns around my stargates - SoV holders can't have complete control of their systems at the expense of improving the game as a whole.

The real opinions that matter are those belonging to Empire corps that "want" to go to 0.0 but don't for whatever reason. How many of them would be willing to give 0.0 a go if they could dock without fear of being locked out? That's really the question that matters. Compare that answer to the loss of SOV holders control and you can decide whether the change is a good idea or a bad one.

Another way to look at the change - it would help reduce the blobs. Why is this? Simple, many corps and alliances want blue status with a SOV holder primarily for docking rights. SOV holder agrees, in exchange for an agreement to help defend. That is how coalitions really began in the first place. I've been there, in alliances that wanted docking rights and made those types of agreements.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.04 21:44:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 04/06/2011 21:47:11
Quote:
though afk cloakers



AFK cloaking does not give a large alliance an advantage over a small one.. but I like how you tried to sneak that in there.

AFK cloaking, if it exists, is doing nothing. No player is present right? It's the non-afk cloakers you need to worry about as a small undefended group. Calling this issue "afk cloaking" is just an attempt to demonize cloaks in general in order to effect a nerf to cloaking. Face it it's not the afk you care about unless you are just sour grapes over not being able to kill a ship you can unfairly spot with local.


Mocam
Posted - 2011.06.06 03:39:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Beowulf scot
Back in the day before T2 and all the new stuff it was possable to pass through 20 systems in 0.0 before you came across anyone. Instead of fancy modules and stuff why not just introduce more systems, that would enable smaller alliances to grab a bit of space as hopefully the bigger alliances would be to stretched to protect huge areas of the map. Apart from Drone space has any other area been open up since the Great Nothern War? We had 10k people on line back then with almost the same area of space, so now that there is 40k people how about opening up some more space.


More space won't help.

"Back in the day..." - back in the day the API didn't broadcast every change to nullsec within 1 hour. Right now you can setup a simple routine to e-mail you whenever anyone builds anything in a system that they do not control. Be that a POS or trying to claim SOV.

When you have the ability to see a POS being built in an unclaimed system, you have the ability to log on, pull together a team and go blow them up -- in a system none of you have been to in the last YEAR of your play. It takes no effort at all to find where the new gang is trying to get a foothold.

That's a hell of a difference in "AFK empire managing" from 'back in the day'.

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.07 02:25:00 - [14]
 

Wormhole, class 5 and 6's, can be converted to handle a growing alliance. No SOV to worry with, No hot dropping, all that is needed is 'already way past due' buffing of POS mods and UI.

POS refinery buff- Take away the limiter of what can be refined at once. Bring the time per cycle way down.

Individual permissions for similar mods like CHA's and SMA's.

In this kind of enviroment a group can build the weapons and cordination against relatively same sized opponents and only be able to lock down that system with continued presence.

Mocam
Posted - 2011.06.07 08:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tu Ko
Wormhole, class 5 and 6's, can be converted to handle a growing alliance. No SOV to worry with, No hot dropping, all that is needed is 'already way past due' buffing of POS mods and UI.

POS refinery buff- Take away the limiter of what can be refined at once. Bring the time per cycle way down.

Individual permissions for similar mods like CHA's and SMA's.

In this kind of enviroment a group can build the weapons and cordination against relatively same sized opponents and only be able to lock down that system with continued presence.


That POS fixes, updates and enhancing... It adds value to every type of space, not just Wormholes and I do hope they improve that stuff for you folks with the guts to buy & build from POS's.

That's a pretty cool portion of the game that I think could really use improving.

As for WH as the option - as you say, and as it's been adopted by the community - if you want risk/rewards, with out the BS of pucking up every time an alliance leader drops their drawers - Wormholes are the answer. All that political bunk that is the "fun" for SOV holders takes a powder with these places. They are nullsec for the small guys.


 

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