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blankseplocked CSM 6 April 2011 - QA Session Replay With Notes [Official]
 
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Dalketh
Posted - 2011.04.21 04:15:00 - [91]
 

You have to be joking, profanity and insults is 'getting talks with CCP to open up'??? I can't even follow the logic of that so I am guessing there is no use asking for stats on that lol. That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on the forums ever... so I guess some congrats to you are in order. Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Celtic Deamon
As for professionalism, if being gay for each other and making **** jokes gets to job done and even gets talks with CCP to open up, go for it.

Celtic Deamon
Caldari
Stellae Fixae
One Power
Posted - 2011.04.21 13:58:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Dalketh
You have to be joking, profanity and insults is 'getting talks with CCP to open up'??? I can't even follow the logic of that so I am guessing there is no use asking for stats on that lol. That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on the forums ever... so I guess some congrats to you are in order. Rolling Eyes





I'm just saying your asking a bunch of people who obviously like to joke around to be serious. One more thing, have you seen how CCP presents themselves? I'm sure they goof around and do the same things this CSM does around the office.

Any company that holds a Fanfest where socialbility and alcohol are the rules of the day, can sit down a be childish for a few hours while talking about issues that could possibly make the game better.

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2011.04.21 14:41:00 - [93]
 

If profanity is being used as an emotive tag because of the passionate believe held in the opinion it's not a bad thing, as long as the major point comes across and the profanity and goofiness doesn't drown that out then it's all good.

Even Devs want to kick back and relax occasionally even when it comes to serious business that is the CSM.

When it comes to the first meeting in Iceland though they should temper the profanity and use it when it's absolutely required. Call out BS when you see it, but do it with a valid and weighty argument as to WHY you think it's BS.

The Mittani's voice is good and he knows it, so he uses it as often as possible.

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.21 15:23:00 - [94]
 

In before its internet spaceships and pixels an youre freaking out over cussing

Dirk Decibel
Posted - 2011.04.22 14:43:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Temporarily moved to General Discussion for more... discussion...


This is one of the main reasons you can never find CSM info. Cuz it's in the wrong place. A noob who has just figured out that the CSM section on the eve main page is utter crap and that he needs to visit the forums where there is a specific CSM section will now NOT find this thread there....

Being completely oblivious of it's existance, he will prolly never see it....

Maybe try checking first...
When CCP Manifest moved the thread he left a reference to it so it actually is posted in the right place, and its posted here too (for a few weeks)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1498031

Moving threads around still doesn't make it any clearer for the noob. Having a sticky that says "Fireside Chat thread" with zero replies is not going to make the impression of a lively discussion. Decreasing the chance of anyone clicking on it.

CSM communication is horrible, to find out what they are doing you need to dig and dig.

Noob comes to EVE online site, if he finds the CSM menu on that page to begin with, he will find there is little of interest in it. Then they might make it to the forums only to have to keep being rerouted to a section of the forum that is NOT meant for the CSM.

The best way to find out what the **** the CSM is doing is to listen to an audio file that is NOT hosted in the place that is supposed to be informing you about the CSM.

You can slice that anyway you want, it's bad communication, period. Sad

Frozen Anya
Posted - 2011.04.23 02:25:00 - [96]
 

Fantastic. This needs to be kept up.

Time Funnel
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:52:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:58:43
On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not? Is it an ego thing amongst the game designers? I would think they'd be open to taking ideas and suggestions no matter how "micro" they are. I understand that the big picture suggestions are easier for them to digest and respond to, but ignoring all micro suggestions is just...lame.


Welcome to EVE. May your stay here be fruitful.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.04.29 02:41:00 - [98]
 

Let's see here... nullsec, nullsec, nullsec... oh, nullsec, more nullsec, don't know d*ck about empire, nullsec, nullsec, nullsec.

I see CSM6 has continued to focus on things that will make the game fun for them and gingerly stepped over all the things that the player base has supported for years.

As for CCP using CSM6 as a marketing ploy for pushing 'Time Dilation' as a massively player supported initiative which CSM6 has made their primary focus... well, at least someone has made Mittens and gang their *****. Kudos CCP.

Now, having said all that... anyone else still concerned that the only things being represented by CSM6 are things that will benefit nullsec citizens more than anyone else?

I mean, seriously... more farms in null? The billions of ISK and fleet of titans you jackoffs build from the bots you run getting to be too little for you? Oh wait - or is it the slam you are all taking from Sreegs putting the cork on the kettle? Bahaha. More farms in null. Yeah, that's the problem with Eve... not enough ISK being fielded to bot running alliances. WTF.

Cap/super cap balancing... let me guess, you don't like the sub-cap nerf, right? You think you really ought to be able to sit in a 1.0 empire space with some kind of uber god mode type ship and just f*ck everybody in the *ss, right? That would be uber fun wouldn't it? FFS.

Ship Iteration (or, how to make sub-cap ships more like cap ships for our nullsec battles). About the only thing that would trickle down to empire.

So, Mittens gets to yap and yap and yap and yap about, frankly, some of the most inane topics and how he plans to improve CSM/CCP relations (bahahahaha, yer funny) and push macro topics to CCP because developers don't like to be told about the small stuff. Wow, you are so f*cking far off from the truth it isn't even funny. Developers are *all about the details*. But you wouldn't know that, would you Mittens? You've made your claim to fame in a MMORPG. hahaha.

Anyway, this is just more dribble from the nullsec alliances who feel they should pretty much all have GM powers and own everything and everybody else in the game. If any of them had any real interest in the evolution of the game they'd be pushing for iteration on things that matter to everybody, not just the sh*t that pains them in nullsec and would give them even more advantage than they already have.

Nope, still not impressed with CSM6. My votes didn't go to Mittens to begin with - they went to someone I actually thought might be able to communicate with CCP. Though that person is on the CSM, I've not heard *one GD word* from them since. Not in forums, not in the fireside chat - nowhere. I guess mittens was busy slurping down a bunch of hard on's to keep everyone else at bay. An entire group of sell outs.

Screw you goons and all you other useless and clueless twits on the CSM. Your efforts will be laudable and wholly unimplemented. Same as CSM5, CSM4, etc. You're nothing more than a marketing and mouth piece for CCP, so just get over yourselves. Macro topics hahaha... I believe when we developers meet people like you in real life, we label you either 'f*cking lazy' or 'clueless'. In CSM6's case, I'll go with clueless.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.04.29 07:20:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent

Now, having said all that... anyone else still concerned that the only things being represented by CSM6 are things that will benefit nullsec citizens more than anyone else?



Yes, lots of people are, in all these threads.

Notably, none of them seems to have won election.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.04.29 07:26:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Let's see here... nullsec, nullsec, nullsec... oh, nullsec, more nullsec, don't know d*ck about empire, nullsec, nullsec, nullsec.

I see CSM6 has continued to focus on things that will make the game fun for them and gingerly stepped over all the things that the player base has supported for years.

As for CCP using CSM6 as a marketing ploy for pushing 'Time Dilation' as a massively player supported initiative which CSM6 has made their primary focus... well, at least someone has made Mittens and gang their *****. Kudos CCP.

Now, having said all that... anyone else still concerned that the only things being represented by CSM6 are things that will benefit nullsec citizens more than anyone else?

I mean, seriously... more farms in null? The billions of ISK and fleet of titans you jackoffs build from the bots you run getting to be too little for you? Oh wait - or is it the slam you are all taking from Sreegs putting the cork on the kettle? Bahaha. More farms in null. Yeah, that's the problem with Eve... not enough ISK being fielded to bot running alliances. WTF.

Cap/super cap balancing... let me guess, you don't like the sub-cap nerf, right? You think you really ought to be able to sit in a 1.0 empire space with some kind of uber god mode type ship and just f*ck everybody in the *ss, right? That would be uber fun wouldn't it? FFS.

Ship Iteration (or, how to make sub-cap ships more like cap ships for our nullsec battles). About the only thing that would trickle down to empire.

So, Mittens gets to yap and yap and yap and yap about, frankly, some of the most inane topics and how he plans to improve CSM/CCP relations (bahahahaha, yer funny) and push macro topics to CCP because developers don't like to be told about the small stuff. Wow, you are so f*cking far off from the truth it isn't even funny. Developers are *all about the details*. But you wouldn't know that, would you Mittens? You've made your claim to fame in a MMORPG. hahaha.

Anyway, this is just more dribble from the nullsec alliances who feel they should pretty much all have GM powers and own everything and everybody else in the game. If any of them had any real interest in the evolution of the game they'd be pushing for iteration on things that matter to everybody, not just the sh*t that pains them in nullsec and would give them even more advantage than they already have.

Nope, still not impressed with CSM6. My votes didn't go to Mittens to begin with - they went to someone I actually thought might be able to communicate with CCP. Though that person is on the CSM, I've not heard *one GD word* from them since. Not in forums, not in the fireside chat - nowhere. I guess mittens was busy slurping down a bunch of hard on's to keep everyone else at bay. An entire group of sell outs.

Screw you goons and all you other useless and clueless twits on the CSM. Your efforts will be laudable and wholly unimplemented. Same as CSM5, CSM4, etc. You're nothing more than a marketing and mouth piece for CCP, so just get over yourselves. Macro topics hahaha... I believe when we developers meet people like you in real life, we label you either 'f*cking lazy' or 'clueless'. In CSM6's case, I'll go with clueless.

Too obvious. 2/10
(1 for effort, 1 for at least pretending to have listened to the talk)

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.04.29 11:23:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Too obvious. 2/10
(1 for effort, 1 for at least pretending to have listened to the talk)


lol. Spoken like a nullsec alt. It pains you folks when someone intelligent enough to read between the lines and see what the CSM is really all about sez something, doesn't it? lol.

Falin Whalen
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.04 17:45:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Too obvious. 2/10
(1 for effort, 1 for at least pretending to have listened to the talk)


lol. Spoken like a nullsec alt. It pains you folks when someone intelligent enough to read between the lines and see what the CSM is really all about sez something, doesn't it? lol.


Keep buying that tinfoil, you need to add more to your hat.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.05.05 16:23:00 - [103]
 

I haven't listened to it but it looks like allot of “game design issues” were brought up.

I'm sure Mittani repeated the same line over and over again "CSM has nothing to do with being a game designer..." and it’s only the other liar candidates who claimed that. I’m sure he didn’t comment as some sort of “lol amateur game designer” so I’m sure there wasn’t much to hear.

I’m interested in hearing how he fulfilled his promise to be "ruthless, manipulative bastard"

I'm also surprised that there wasn't a section on CCP's “managerial technique” and the pros and cons of ccp’s “flavor of the month” scrum team set up. After all we voted for you because you correctly identified this was your “most serious concern” facing the csm.


Originally by: The Mittani


A few pages back I mentioned my concern that the issue might be one of managerial technique, since based on some of what I've heard from past CSMs, CCP doesn't appear to have any real best practices system at the coding level. This might have something to do with the reliance on the flavor of the month scrum/agile setup.

There might also be some issues with institutional memory or lack thereof since the firm has expanded massively in the past two years. People like Oveur and Torfi have been there for ages, but there's a lot of mid-level newdevs who have only been kicking around for a year tops.

This is my most serious concern, that all of this - the backlogs, the bugs, the half-implemented features, the schizophrenic development cycle - is a symptom of a hidden disease. That the reason why the CSMs have only gotten a few peripheral things done is that the underlying causes haven't been identified or dealt with.

In which case it's a 'simple matter' (heavy sarcasm, for those who do not understand scare quotes) of diagnosing the methods by which the dev teams interact and communicate (or don't) best practices and focus attention on that.


Please do focus attention on that. By all means advise CCP how their dev teams should be interacting and communicating with each other. That way this managerial disease that causes the backlogs, bugs, half implemented features and schizophrenic development can stop. Can we have that added to your summit topics?

I’m sure not only CCP and us players but the entire MMO world are waiting, with bated breath, for you to give a critique of CCP’s managerial process and what their best practices should be. After all I’m sure that since you practiced law in a real life law firm for a few months you are highly qualified to do this.

Please stop wasting time on these game design issues! “lolamatuergamedesigner” Get to the underlying problem of CCP’s management structure ASAP!

After all we voted you in because we read and agreed with your platform. We did *not* vote you in because we are pathetic drones lacking even that slight sense of independence and self-worth required to vote for someone other than our internet spaceship alliance leader. Again that was *not* the case. No no no. Not the case at all.

So please write up a memo to all the CCP executives staff telling them how the devs at ccp are supposed to communicate from here on out!



SkinSin
Posted - 2011.06.06 18:27:00 - [104]
 

Ok. It's 10 days short of 2 months now. Is there any chance of getting a transcript of this?

SkinSin
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:27:00 - [105]
 

Another request for written minutes of this and I'm starting to feel that the people who represent me to CCP are starting to let me down.

Let me repeat. I am deaf. I cannot listen to this recording. You mentioned that a transcript might follow, but don't appear to have followed up on. I feel like I am being left out...


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