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blankseplocked Goodbye, old forums... long live the new forums ? Update : NOT !
 
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:10:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Wilhelm Riley
Wow, you exaggerated the crap out of that one didn't you. I don't know what kind of computer you're using but I'd send it back because if it's making things look like that then you probably got ripped off.

Switching from 2x 1920px wide (minus minor crops) to under 1000px wide effective can have a similar psychological effect, you know ?
That's what basically happened.


Forums should simply resize when the browser does.

Running 1600x900 on my clients simply so I can keep 4-6 visible on my dual monitor setup. I'm guessing that means this browser is around 1000-1200 wide. I.e. so I can see local/overview behind it while I'm browsing. I.e. static forum size is not ideal for everyone. Something that adapts in size would/should be.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:16:00 - [122]
 

Around 1200 wide here on a 1600 wide desktop, so for a 1920 wide desktop it would be roughly 1500 wide.
The new forums were UNDER 1000 wide.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.04.11 11:16:00 - [123]
 

Still have to ask: why are you people running your browsers so wide (or, worse, full-screen)?

Have you tried just narrowing down the browser window and using the left-over space for something useful (e.g. a second browser window)?

I still feel that the width was one of the few things the new forums did right (but I'll admit that it was also immediately made wrong again by making the entire design static, using absolute measurements on fonts and related sizes).

You want 4565 characters widths per line to get the best readability. At the font sizes everyone uses for full-length text, this ends up as somewhere around 500700px width. Add some padding and sidebars to that and 1000px is pretty much to be expected (and it fits nicely on portrait-swivelled monitors).

Bhattran
Posted - 2011.04.11 11:28:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Still have to ask: why are you people running your browsers so wide (or, worse, full-screen)?

Have you tried just narrowing down the browser window and using the left-over space for something useful (e.g. a second browser window)?




I multi-tab browser windows and don't do fullscreen most of the time, but maybe half or more of other sites scale to use the wider window only a few set a fixed width that wastes space like new forums. For the new forums it was just stupid IMO to not scale or allow users to choose formats, not that I actually expect CCP to bother with user choices as it 'wastes developer' time but it makes sense to my mind.

With proper line breaks wider text is fine to read for me, and I'd rather have it compressed vertically so I can reference more as I write/follow discussions that span several replies over scrolling needlessly. I bought these 'big' monitors to see more stuff it makes little sense to me to jam stuff up so I can do more scrolling. Obviously there are situations when using smaller windows to have more visible at the same time make sense but then I also use a second monitor or resize when appropriate.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.04.11 11:43:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: RaTTuS on 11/04/2011 11:44:20
I use many tabs and the browser is 3/4 of my screen size...
the major thing they could do is to
IMPORT these forums to the new ones even if they mark them readonly..
seriously how hard can that be.

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:11:00 - [126]
 

Didn't Chribba say that the post data was something like 20 GB? 48GB after all the search data is put in, plus think of how many relative links would be completely broken and need to be found, re indexed, and relinked? I could understand why they wouldn't want to undertake that. I'd rather keep the old forums intact and safe than chance them massively botching up a migration.

That would have been a funny thing for someone exploiting the characterID hole to do tho, go back to the very beginning and start force feeding posts from the old forum into the new one Twisted Evil

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:18:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/04/2011 12:20:21

Originally by: Tippia
Still have to ask: why are you people running your browsers so wide (or, worse, full-screen)?
[...]
You want 4565 characters widths per line to get the best readability.

It's a matter of personal preference depending on how you read.

Some people find "newspaper column" type writing to be easiest to absorb (mostly up/down eye motions), others find "formatted//paragraphed wall of text" easier to absorb (mostly left/right eye motions).
Myself, I am in the latter category, since I am what you could call a "speed reader".
Also, I hate having to scroll much, whenever you scroll, you tend to ever so slightly lose track of where you were in the text to some degree.

I don't exactly read each and every word slowly, I skim over a short section of the text very quickly, then track back and focus on the things that triggered the "this could be interesting" senses and read those in-depth.
For speed reading, having AS MUCH TEXT AS POSSIBLE on screen at the same time without scrolling is extremely important.
Well, at least for the way I do it, anyway.
Like I said, it differs from person to person.

The new forums formatting basically killed my reading speed, I took much longer to go through the same amount of text.
For a heavy-duty forum user, that's simply unacceptable.
For the casual reader, yes, you may be right, the other "thinner" version might be better.
So one has to wonder, why not let us choose ?


Originally by: RaTTuS
the major thing they could do is to
IMPORT these forums to the new ones even if they mark them readonly..
seriously how hard can that be.


So very much THIS.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:32:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Some people find "newspaper column" type writing to be easiest to absorb (mostly up/down eye motions), others find "formatted//paragraphed wall of text" easier to absorb (mostly left/right eye motions).
Myself, I am in the latter category, since I am what you could call a "speed reader".
Yes, but even speed reading benefits from normal columns (45-65em) a newspaper column is much more narrow than that (commonly 20em or so).

In fact, the reason for that particular width is exactly because it allows you to speed-read: at 45em you get one or two "focus-points" per line; you can easily see both the end of the current line and the beginning of the next; the brain wastes no time searching for the next line, and you don't have to waste space on extra line-height to make that task easier. At 65em, it goes to maybe two or three such focus points one if you're a well-trained reader.

The problem with the left-right eye movement (even among those who prefer it) is that you quickly lose track of that line-to-line connection and have to actively search for the continuation of the text. If you're just skimming, it makes little difference you're just looking for the keywords but as soon as you actually try to read, it bogs down the brain.

What differs from person to person is whether you skim or read, far more than how you actually read.

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:37:00 - [129]
 

To me it's much more easier to speed-read in the old forums. Now that I have tried both, I am very sure I like the old one more.

According to democracy we should just keep the old forums but of cause CCP will not listen; CCP never listens.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:40:00 - [130]
 

im just glad to be in the top 100

the end of a era could of been more with my sh!tposting but never mind

was a good roll wouldn't you say akita :P


http://eve-search.com/stats/Armoured%20C

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:55:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 11/04/2011 12:55:42
many things will be lost in time, when (if) these forums are closed down.


Like Ragnar's hat.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:58:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Raid'En

on new forums i don't have to log on each time i want to post / see news posts


I do, actually. Since I don't technically use eve gate for anything, and game login is still separate. Only time I use eve gate is when Im at work.


Titus Phook
Posted - 2011.04.11 13:02:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Titus Phook on 11/04/2011 13:04:50
On the readability side of things the old/current forum is definitley easier on the eyes, I run my main monitor @1680x1050 and the browser full screen, I tend to have the fonts bigger than intended using ctrl+scrollwheel in firefox. On the now defunct new forums, the text/ background colour contrast made it hard to read and ctrl+scroll didn't appear to work as well as it does here.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.11 13:10:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/04/2011 13:12:48
Originally by: Armoured C
im just glad to be in the top 100 the end of a era could of been more with my sh!tposting but never mind
was a good roll wouldn't you say akita :P
http://eve-search.com/stats/Armoured%20C

Actually, it would appear Chribba started to integrate the new forum posts into evesearch, so the stats would be cumulative anyway.
Very Happy

Originally by: Tippia
Yes, but even speed reading benefits from normal columns (45-65em)

It's one of the sweetspots for most, true, but for me, it's not.

Quote:
The problem with the left-right eye movement (even among those who prefer it) is that you quickly lose track of that line-to-line connection and have to actively search for the continuation of the text.

That does tend to happen to me only when the text is not centered horizontally with regards to where my nose is, and only occasionally.
Paragraphs help a lot too.

Quote:
If you're just skimming, it makes little difference you're just looking for the keywords but as soon as you actually try to read, it bogs down the brain.

Having to scroll up and down to keep reading within the "sweet spot" of no eye strain (which is a large flat elliptical region) is much worse.
For me, anyway.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.04.11 13:20:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS

I use many tabs and the browser is 3/4 of my screen size...
the major thing they could do is to
IMPORT these forums to the new ones even if they mark them readonly..
seriously how hard can that be.


I totally agree with this, splitting the forum in half is just bad.

Voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
We Are John Galt
Posted - 2011.04.11 13:27:00 - [136]
 

Perhaps Chribba can open a "eveforum" for reading the forums, with direct links to reply/quote/etc so that the only time your exposed to the forum is when replying.

It would be amusing to see a majority of the players browsing a the official forum from a third party. ugh

First the search was outsourced, then the whole forum. Shocked


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