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Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:27:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Johnny Lou on 05/04/2011 18:28:15
Edited by: Johnny Lou on 05/04/2011 18:27:55
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
We should want that. Why would you fly a BC when you can get a CS for the same price? Well if you don't have the skills to fly a CS, you'll fly a BC. T1 ships will never be obsolete so long as there are players who don't yet have the skills to fly T2, and those players will never run out.

Answer me this: Why would I fly a CS that I have the skills for, when I can fly a much cheaper and almost as effective BC? This is my point. T2 are not effective for their price. Their price needs to drop so more people who can use them, will use them.


I think this is a very good point. If this was a game of skill rather than isk it might be a lot more fun for a lot more people.

Now, you are able to fly good ships but you can't afford them so you have to stick to T1's and work your ass off and spend a lot of time building income sources which will eventually allow you to fly (AND LOOSE) some slightly better ships... what a waste...

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:32:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Johnny Lou
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
We should want that. Why would you fly a BC when you can get a CS for the same price? Well if you don't have the skills to fly a CS, you'll fly a BC. T1 ships will never be obsolete so long as there are players who don't yet have the skills to fly T2, and those players will never run out.

Answer me this: Why would I fly a CS that I have the skills for, when I can fly a much cheaper and almost as effective BC? This is my point. T2 are not effective for their price. Their price needs to drop so more people who can use them, will use them.


I think this is a very good point. If this was a game of skill rather than isk it might be a lot more fun for a lot more people.

Now, you are able to fly good ships but you can't afford them so you have to stick to T1's and work your ass off and spends lots of time building income sources which will eventually allow you to fly (AND LOOSE) some slightly better ships... what a waste...


Eve is a game of skill AND ISK, remove the ISK element and you no longer have Eve - this is not an arena game or a first person shooter - it is a sandbox where a factions military might is not measured just in how good its pilots are, but what ships it is capable of fielding.

How can you not afford T2 ships? A T2 is not that terribly expensive in comparison to what you get. For illustration, an Interceptor might cost as much as 40x more then a normal frigate, but it outclasses it in every way. You get what you pay for, hence they are more expensive. In most cases, the price is completely justified (Interceptors, Logistics, Jump Freighters...)

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:44:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Johnny Lou on 05/04/2011 18:51:06
Originally by: Horizonist

Eve is a game of skill AND ISK, remove the ISK element and you no longer have Eve - this is not an arena game or a first person shooter - it is a sandbox where a factions military might is not measured just in how good its pilots are, but what ships it is capable of fielding.

How can you not afford T2 ships? A T2 is not that terribly expensive in comparison to what you get. For illustration, an Interceptor might cost as much as 40x more then a normal frigate, but it outclasses it in every way. You get what you pay for, hence they are more expensive. In most cases, the price is completely justified (Interceptors, Logistics, Jump Freighters...)


It's not a matter of being able to buy ONE T2 ship. It's a question of how many you can afford to loose before you have to go back to "raising isk for the war effort". And I am thinking about slightly more "serious" ships like T2 cruisers and bc's and bs's.

Buying a T2 ship and loosing a T2 ship is not a big deal. Being able to buy and loose 10 of them within a week tends to stir things up a bit. I think a lot more people would be willing to go into battle instead of running in stations.

Overall, people will spend the isk they make because, while it might be cool to be super rich with an insane wallet, it's a lot more fun to fight again and again and even test your strength against overwhelming odds.

So what if the T1's become obsolete? it's a small price to pay if you ask me.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:56:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Horizonist on 05/04/2011 18:56:03
Originally by: Johnny Lou

It's not a matter of being able to buy ONE T2 ship. It's a question of how many can you afford to loose. And I am thinking about slightly more "serious" ships like T2 cruisers and bc's and bs's.

T2 ships, like T2 modules, are more expensive because they are better, and there is nothing wrong with that, it is exactly how it is supposed to be - if you want to bring more powerful equipment into battle, it will cost you more, that is just how Eve works.

Originally by: Johnny Lou

Buying a T2 ship and loosing a T2 ship is not a big deal. Being able to buy and loose 10 of them within a week tends to stir things up a bit. I think a lot more people would be willing to go into battle instead of running in stations.


Bigger risk of losing should push pilots towards better organization, and more careful PvPing. It would actually improve quality of PvP rather then decrease it - T1 ships, on the other hand, fill perfectly the niche of more low-skilled, cost efficient PvP.

Also, I know you were illustrating, but if you lose 10 T2 ships in a week, you are doing something wrong.

Originally by: Johnny Lou

Overall, people will spend the isk they make because, while it might be cool to be super rich with an insane wallet, it's a lot more fun to fight again and again and even test your strength against overwhelming odds.


And why do you need to fly T2 to do this? What is wrong with T1?

Originally by: Johnny Lou

So what if the T1's become obsolete? it's a small price to pay if you ask me.

No, it is not, rather, it is removing another dimension of depth and strategy from PvP, which will not add much to the game in any way, but rather make it more shallow.

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.05 19:20:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Horizonist

stuff...

All good points but, I still think that having the skills to fly good ships which you will never use outside PVE (because you would have to work hard to replace them) it's just silly (IMO).

In the end I guess we can agree to disagree. After all, each has his own definition of fun Wink

Ahz
Posted - 2011.04.05 20:11:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Moar!
This is the solution you seek.

The whole model of rolling out new "bling" every six months is well past broken. Even if CCP started doing as you suggest they'd only be stuck rolling out more crap in another year or two. Each new layer of stuff would obsolete the layers before it.

The only true solution is for the players to take control and start inventing this stuff themselves. Endless innovation driven from within.

People really need to start thinking in a different direction if this game is going to realize its true potential.

EDISON CLONE
Minmatar
Romal Mining Ventures Ltd.
Posted - 2011.04.05 20:46:00 - [37]
 

wow...I think you really struct a nerve here. Harsh, and blunt, true, but looking at the time line...way past due.

Fredfredbug4
Posted - 2011.04.05 21:30:00 - [38]
 

T2 and T3 are very expensive. Even if we keep adding more technology it won't matter. People will still fly lower tech ships because they are cheaper.

Until T3 ships can be as expendable as T1 ships there is no need to advance the technology.

Bender 01000010
Caldari
EVE-RO
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.04.06 11:20:00 - [39]
 

would be nice to have the ability to make each item unique by adjusting the attributes of items when you produce them.. for example you make a energy turret and you choose for more capacitor consumption and you get more range with that turret.


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