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cyndrogen
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:57:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: cyndrogen on 04/04/2011 18:07:20
I realize that plex was designed so people would not trade RL money for in game money, however due to the fluctuations in isk/plex it seems like plex needs a separate tier to shield it from the ISK fluctuations.

So, what I would like to suggest is to switch all plex from ISK trades to LP point trades and have NPC corps handle the transactions. LP points are a fixed medium, a player can sell plex directly to an NPC corp and vice versa. The player would receive LP points in exchange for selling their plex and the LP points can be redeemed for in game items and traded in for ISK.

This removes the direct link of ISK and PLEX and instead creates a system where plex is in the hands of NPC corps and the price of LP does not shift.

LP points can now be traded with RL money for in game faction items, which avoids a player from having to grind missions and focus on warfare, while the pilot who runs missions and is not engaged in pvp can continue to run missions and pay via plex.

In essence the pilot running missions and buying plex is paying for the faction gear to those who actually use the ships.

garus banta
Posted - 2011.04.04 20:46:00 - [2]
 

I don't care as long as I get to blow stuff up...

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.04 22:31:00 - [3]
 

So what you're saying is ratters, traders, miners and explorers should be barred from purchasing plex to pay for their account. I don't think you thought this through.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2011.04.04 23:36:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: cyndrogen on 04/04/2011 23:55:28
Edited by: cyndrogen on 04/04/2011 23:50:31

Originally by: King Rothgar
So what you're saying is ratters, traders, miners and explorers should be barred from purchasing plex to pay for their account. I don't think you thought this through.


Barred? They can still purchase plex via other players, this just ensures that plex stays at a fixed price for those selling plex. 300,000 LP for plex would never change.

Plus there is nothing stopping someone from trading in their LP for plex and taking the plex to Jita for profit.

So not barred but they pay a higher premium for avoiding missions and also this solves the issue with macro botting in ONE shot. It would obliterate botting because it would no longer be profitable.

Isk cannot buy you LP, it CAN buy you a plex which buys you LP, but the price you pay for plex with ISK would always be greater then if you just purchased plex with real money.

Think about it...

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.05 00:13:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: King Rothgar on 05/04/2011 00:13:53
So then you're suggesting that you should be allowed to trade in your plex for LP to an NPC instead of selling directly to another player. But a mission runner could always go buy a plex from the LP store and sell it to another player for profit. Which raises the question of why bother with the LP at all when you can just sell it to another player from the start?

If you are thinking that it will result in a fixed isk value because if player orders are too low, you can just sell to npc's, think again. LP value is variable along with everything else. 4 months ago I was making 2500 isk/LP selling imperial navy heavy neuts using completely ordinary amarr navy LP. I had been doing so for about 5-6 months when my little secret finally got discovered by some other guys. The value promptly dropped to 1k isk/LP and shows no signs of ever recovering. Not that I still run amarr missions, I'm on the minmatar side now.

No offense, but I still don't think you thought this through.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2011.04.05 03:15:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: cyndrogen on 05/04/2011 03:21:47
Originally by: King Rothgar
Edited by: King Rothgar on 05/04/2011 00:13:53
So then you're suggesting that you should be allowed to trade in your plex for LP to an NPC instead of selling directly to another player. But a mission runner could always go buy a plex from the LP store and sell it to another player for profit. Which raises the question of why bother with the LP at all when you can just sell it to another player from the start?

If you are thinking that it will result in a fixed isk value because if player orders are too low, you can just sell to npc's, think again. LP value is variable along with everything else. 4 months ago I was making 2500 isk/LP selling imperial navy heavy neuts using completely ordinary amarr navy LP. I had been doing so for about 5-6 months when my little secret finally got discovered by some other guys. The value promptly dropped to 1k isk/LP and shows no signs of ever recovering. Not that I still run amarr missions, I'm on the minmatar side now.

No offense, but I still don't think you thought this through.



First of all ISK is NOT a stable value because it is greatly influenced by players and markets. Do you even realize how long it takes a mission runner to generate 300,000 LP? It simply is NOT possible to earn that many LP points per month with ONE toon.

The reason for offering it indirectly is to shield the plex from market fluctuations, I was pretty clear about that earlier.

I'm not interested in a fixed "ISK" value but in a fixed PLEX value. You are thinking about it the old way which is plex = ISK.

LP and ISK are NOT the same.

Also with LP being sold by NPC corps there is no botom and there is always a steady supply of plex, who cares if it gets used or NOT the point is that CCP gets their money and ISK farmers are taken out of the loop to purchase plex directly.

They either have to purchase a plex to get LP points or earn the LP points through missions taking ISK out of the equation, either way the money flows into CCP account and not market.

The BONUS is that LP points can be converted INTO ISK via faction gear. Also, ISK can be used to purchase plex but the cost would be greater because it wold not make any sense for a player to sell something cheaper then the amount the bought it for, if they do they are losing value on their investment.

Dek'athor
Posted - 2011.04.05 07:40:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen
[
First of all ISK is NOT a stable value because it is greatly influenced by players and markets. Do you even realize how long it takes a mission runner to generate 300,000 LP? It simply is NOT possible to earn that many LP points per month with ONE toon.



yes it is possible, altho I usually stop at around 180k and liquidate. I's entirely possible to not_so_casually grab 300k LP per week.

Current PLEX system is ok. Missioners can convert LP to isk to grab their plex's.

Johnny Lou
Posted - 2011.04.05 07:46:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Johnny Lou on 05/04/2011 07:54:06
Ummm.. Sorry but I don't like this.

First I though you said 300K LP for plex by mistake, I now realized it wasn't a mistake.

Although the price sounds fair, this pretty much denies mission runners access to plex because raising 300 K LP is not an easy task and forces me to run tons of missions for the same corp (which I hate; call me crazy but, unlike other people, I like moving around).

I am a mission runner (I like raising standings, don't ask why) and this complicates my life way to much so I'll say no.

Not to mention it stops pretty much everyone else from buying plex since the only way to get LP is to run missions.

Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
Posted - 2011.04.05 07:59:00 - [9]
 

She thinks this will fix botting Laughing

Because we don't have just as many mission bots as we do trading, mining, or ratting bots? Rolling Eyes

If you want to tie plex to something that a bot can't compete in, make people pay for them with player corpses YARRRR!!

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.04.05 08:50:00 - [10]
 

Please read this DEV blog.

Here's a particular quote that you should read:

Originally by: CCP Zulu

... we don't like items having "special status" in the game. Their value should be determined by the player demand (isk bid price) at any time. Placing artificial restraints on any item automatically makes it more special to people ...



So... yeah... not supported.

Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.05 09:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen


First of all ISK is NOT a stable value because it is greatly influenced by players and markets. Do you even realize how long it takes a mission runner to generate 300,000 LP? It simply is NOT possible to earn that many LP points per month with ONE toon.




7.5 hours, preety sure one character can manage that in a month Rolling Eyes

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.05 11:20:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen
Edited by: cyndrogen on 04/04/2011 23:55:28
Edited by: cyndrogen on 04/04/2011 23:50:31

Originally by: King Rothgar
So what you're saying is ratters, traders, miners and explorers should be barred from purchasing plex to pay for their account. I don't think you thought this through.


Barred? They can still purchase plex via other players, this just ensures that plex stays at a fixed price for those selling plex. 300,000 LP for plex would never change.

Plus there is nothing stopping someone from trading in their LP for plex and taking the plex to Jita for profit.

So not barred but they pay a higher premium for avoiding missions and also this solves the issue with macro botting in ONE shot. It would obliterate botting because it would no longer be profitable.

Isk cannot buy you LP, it CAN buy you a plex which buys you LP, but the price you pay for plex with ISK would always be greater then if you just purchased plex with real money.

Think about it...


Sorry, you seem to have your heart in the right place, but like other have said i also don't believe you thought this through.

Currently a plex is worth an average of 360m ISK. You propose that PLEX can be exchanged for 300k LP. If you do your homework, 300k LP is worth more or less 1B isk.

If a plex was worth 70k LP then it might work.. But still, that would be introducing another factor into the market without any real need. There is nothing to keep you from getting 360m for your plex and then buying your faction module from the contracts market.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.05 16:40:00 - [13]
 

As I've already stated, LP values vary greatly faction to faction, corp to corp (not all corps have same LP store) and are subject to market conditions, just like plex. 300k amarr navy LP for a plex is actually a decrease in it's price. 300k 24th imperial crusade LP more or less doubles it's price. 300k carthum conglomerate LP means you brought it's price up by around 5x.

Additionally, 300k LP for navy corps is very easy for me to come up with. I'm a casual lvl5 runner and at 72k LP each (0.4 sec), it doesn't take long to rack up 300k LP. That's only 4 missions after all.Laughing And as said, if you make it LP store only, they instantly become missioner only items. If you make it LP store (navy only) in addition to normal market, then why the hell would anyone bother doing LP store on either the buying or selling end? It just doesn't make sense.

Just let it die mate, you didn't think this through. I agree your heart is in the right place on it but this just isn't workable.

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.04.05 16:59:00 - [14]
 

I believe CCP's Economist, Dr. Gu­mundsson, said that they would intervene if the plex market was ever in need of help. Plex changes with the market / how much isk people are making, a fixed value doesn't really make sense if it's going to fit in with the EVE Economy.


Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.05 17:02:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 05/04/2011 17:03:18
Originally by: King Rothgar
As I've already stated, LP values vary greatly faction to faction, corp to corp (not all corps have same LP store) and are subject to market conditions, just like plex. 300k amarr navy LP for a plex is actually a decrease in it's price. 300k 24th imperial crusade LP more or less doubles it's price. 300k carthum conglomerate LP means you brought it's price up by around 5x.


Takez notesa

cyndrogen
Posted - 2011.04.05 17:51:00 - [16]
 

So do you think it's fair to trade ISK for plex?

Are you suggesting the current system is good for people who are basically paying for alliances to get fatter and fatter? How is that balanced? When an alliance can claim 0.0 space and earn 100 million per hour or maybe more, they don't need to work very hard to play for free, on the flip side those trying to enter 0.0 are denied access and forced into basically slave labor for the 0.0 alliance. Yeah sign me right up!

Look I agree maybe LP is not the best way but there needs to be a separation of plex and ISK in game.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2011.04.05 19:52:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen
Edited by: cyndrogen on 04/04/2011 18:07:20
I realize that plex was designed so people would not trade RL money for in game money, however due to the fluctuations in isk/plex it seems like plex needs a separate tier to shield it from the ISK fluctuations.

So, what I would like to suggest is to switch all plex from ISK trades to LP point trades and have NPC corps handle the transactions. LP points are a fixed medium, a player can sell plex directly to an NPC corp and vice versa. The player would receive LP points in exchange for selling their plex and the LP points can be redeemed for in game items and traded in for ISK.

This removes the direct link of ISK and PLEX and instead creates a system where plex is in the hands of NPC corps and the price of LP does not shift.

LP points can now be traded with RL money for in game faction items, which avoids a player from having to grind missions and focus on warfare, while the pilot who runs missions and is not engaged in pvp can continue to run missions and pay via plex.

In essence the pilot running missions and buying plex is paying for the faction gear to those who actually use the ships.


It sounds to me like you run a lot of missions, and hate having to convert your LP's to isk so you can buy a plex. Plex for isk if fine the way it is... LP's for faction items makes RP sense, and is fine the way it is...

So what are the benefits of making this change exactly?

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.06 01:41:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen
So do you think it's fair to trade ISK for plex?

Are you suggesting the current system is good for people who are basically paying for alliances to get fatter and fatter? How is that balanced? When an alliance can claim 0.0 space and earn 100 million per hour or maybe more, they don't need to work very hard to play for free, on the flip side those trying to enter 0.0 are denied access and forced into basically slave labor for the 0.0 alliance. Yeah sign me right up!

Look I agree maybe LP is not the best way but there needs to be a separation of plex and ISK in game.


I think it's completely fair. I buy ships with isk, I buy ammo with isk, I buy implants with isk, I buy skillbooks with isk. Why shouldn't I buy plex with isk? I live in low sec and my isk comes from cashing in LP. As a casual lvl5 runner, I have to dispose of around 300-500k LP a week but that's just part of the process. I make a trip up to jita, buy the tags/parts to cash in my LP and come back a week later with the finished goods. On my return trip home, I bring in enough parts/tags to cash in next time. So one trip a week and I cash in 300k+ LP for 300M+ net profit. Pretty simple and straight forward really.

But that is lvl5's, your problem is you're doing high sec lvl4's I suspect and tbh, those don't pay that well. It's noob friendly content and it has the rewards to reflect that. If you want to pay for your account with isk without loosing your mind with pve, you're going to need to step up to higher level pve content.

1600 RT
Posted - 2011.04.06 09:33:00 - [19]
 

main problem of buying plex from lp store and not with real money is that CCP wouldnt get any money in that process.

Gelvina
Posted - 2011.04.06 10:43:00 - [20]
 

dear cyndrogen...

Firstly and most important: you are not important in the game of eve..

Firstly isk fluctuations is what makes the game good in a way. (plex does not need to be shielded)
secondly plex comes from RL money.. after that its like any item.
The idea that CCP would sell gametime for LP is simply crazy!! You might not have realized but CCP is in the end a company
that would like to make money. And giving away game time for LP doesn't help them.

you seem to think you are important or something. deserves a game that is fair towards your game style?
bahaha

Your arguments against 0.0 alliances is wrong. You have (in time) every opportunity any other player has.
If you think you can make 100mil/hour in 0.0 then go there. See how that works for you.

Anyways your ideas about how LP is exactly stable or what not is a joke at best.
LP is just another form of currency and its value is not stable. The value of LP is determined in relationship of how much LP
is available in the game vs the demand for the stuff that can be obtained from LP.
A simply example would be to go look at implant prices over the last 2 years or so.


 

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