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Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.20 15:46:00 - [1261]
 

Originally by: Rykuss
It doesn't matter that you find a particular activity boring, there is no excuse for botting. Period. You bot because you can't hack it<pun intended> in eve. Laughing

you don't bot because you would rather do mindless drone-work than bear the thought of losing your space pixels.

with that level of risk-aversion you should ask yourself if eve is the right game for you.

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.07.20 16:09:00 - [1262]
 

Edited by: Lakuma on 20/07/2011 16:11:56
It'd be nice if CCP released a quarterly or semi-annual report on accounts banned. Not who of course (they can't do that) but how many, maybe what security system their characters are currently in (a banned account isn't deleted I imagine, so this could be gathered), what type of characters (Miners, Missions, Combat...)

1) This gives the playerbase an idea of how many botting accounts have existed (only one character can be logged, so its one bot to one account).
2) Security Status of the system they were in could clear up some basic facts - are bots primarily chewing on veldspar in hisec or lvl 4's, or are they prevalent in nullsec? Who knows - we may find there are a large number of bots in lowsec!
3) Since only one character can be logged, most 'new' bot accounts will have just one character. A purchased account could have more naturally. CCP has the means to see which character was being botted and used primarily however. Viewing the skills and ship in use would help determine what kind of bot it was...
4) Knowing the type of bot (and pairing this with the system security and numerical data) would shed light on what the most prevalent type of bot is. This in turns gives players and CCP a more focused area to be aware of when looking for bots.

CCP introduced a report mechanic (YAY) but without this sort of data, players will really only 'stumble' on bots - they don't really have a means for searching them out. While player-based research is certainly worthwhile (and I encourage it!) without this sort of data from CCP, only so much can be gained. I know several players in nullsec that spend an hour or more waiting for a fleet op or just hunting for something to kill that would be more than willing to hunt down bots. So a recap, for CCP GM Staff...

1) Provide a quarterly or semi-annual report that details actions against bots. This doesn't need reduction of cpu on servers and such, but eye-candy never hurts.
2) The data needs to include how many accounts were banned PERMANENTLY and if possible, not permanently - making sure to separate the two for clarity.
3) The data needs to show what security type system the account was botting in - high, low, null, WH. WH should be kept separate as it represents an unusual form of botting given that sites must be scanned down first, implying an active player benefiting their own or another bot.
4) The data needs to include what type of bots and how many of each kind - mining, mission running, ratting, gate camper (I've heard but never seen these) etc.

Because this data is non-specific to players or their names, it shouldn't violate any form of EULA or CCP's policies. Were the GM staff to take the time to quantify this (which I would hope they already do for their own benefit) and share it with players, the war on botting could make significant headway. Naturally this improves the image of the game (let alone its playability) which is always a plus. Hopefully an 'active' appearance will also discourage future botters - with new players come more who would take advantage of these services.

Luckytania
Gallente
Bullets of Justice
Posted - 2011.07.20 16:32:00 - [1263]
 

Originally by: Lakuma
It'd be nice if CCP ...
[blah, blah, blah]

Have you read this thread?
Yeah, it'd be nice if CCP would do any number of things.
Like, perhaps, follow up on previous statements.

"in the next 3 weeks or so"

That was 3 months ago.

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.07.20 22:39:00 - [1264]
 

Originally by: Luckytania
Originally by: Lakuma
It'd be nice if CCP ...
[blah, blah, blah]

Have you read this thread?
Yeah, it'd be nice if CCP would do any number of things.
Like, perhaps, follow up on previous statements.

"in the next 3 weeks or so"

That was 3 months ago.



As a matter of fact, yes I have read this thread. Did you fully read my post? I don't recall pandering to CCP or even implying they are good at customer relations. In fact, I made it a point to point out in my post there may be activities CCP isn't doing that could help them, playerbase be damned. For example - I'd be significantly surprised if ANY of what I suggested is already done by the GM staff internally - their ability (or inability) to deal with botting is indicative of that.

So take a deep breath, relax, and aim the trollaser at CCP, not another player. Or just quit the game - I'm down to one account from six (I still enjoy the game, but I'm not throwing any more cash into EVE if it doesn't develop EVE). No I didn't drop those accounts all at once, three were down back with Incursions, then two with Incarna. If the winter expansion proves to be a flop...well you'll be looking for someone else to chew on.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:27:00 - [1265]
 

So I was sitting in Jatate on the only gate, and I couldn't help but see 20+ haulers a minute jumping in and out of a dead system. Many with similar names and all NPC corp of various ages.

I smell bots, also only 3 jumps from Jita LOLs.

Pius Piramonde
Posted - 2011.07.21 00:34:00 - [1266]
 

Bots are reportedly the reason why mining is no longer a profitable activity.
Get rid of the bots, and you stabilize the market, and bring back part of the game that many have abandoned.
Got get 'em, CCP!!!

Alexei Orlov
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.21 06:17:00 - [1267]
 

IIRC, I read a Dev post a little while ago in a FW thread, who are also waiting for a promised DevBlog that is long overdue, that their DevBlog was put on hold until after the "current S**t storm" blew over so that the DevBlog wouldn't get lost in the confusion, or somesuch.

Perhaps there is something similar going on here.

Still, it's a long time to wait. Or, maybe it just got added to the "Backlog of No Return."

Who knows for sure?

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.07.21 07:23:00 - [1268]
 

Originally by: Alexei Orlov
IIRC, I read a Dev post a little while ago in a FW thread, who are also waiting for a promised DevBlog that is long overdue, that their DevBlog was put on hold until after the "current S**t storm" blew over so that the DevBlog wouldn't get lost in the confusion, or somesuch.

Perhaps there is something similar going on here.

Still, it's a long time to wait. Or, maybe it just got added to the "Backlog of No Return."

Who knows for sure?
I saw this as well. Makes me wish people would just STFU already.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.21 12:53:00 - [1269]
 

Originally by: Pius Piramonde
Bots are reportedly the reason why mining is no longer a profitable activity.
Get rid of the bots, and you stabilize the market, and bring back part of the game that many have abandoned.
Got get 'em, CCP!!!


Although mining bots don't help, it's more to do with the massive mineral influx from the Drone Regions. Which are themselves heavily botted. Mining income ran off a cliff when the drone regions were introduced in 2007.

Michael Crammer
Gallente
Crystal Manufacturing Inc
Posted - 2011.07.21 13:11:00 - [1270]
 

Mining is still profitable. Its just not the most profitable thing you can do.

Laurence Pinkitin
Posted - 2011.07.23 08:50:00 - [1271]
 

Originally by: Jon Taggart
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 04/04/2011 17:47:06

Why only 14 days? Get rid of them. Permanently.

Wipe them out. All of them.


+1. Once they improve the detection i hope,and will all should, they get hit with the perma ban instantly. No 3 strikes nonsense. CCP need to show they mean business. Once they do that there will probably be a dramatic decrease in botting.

Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.07.23 12:20:00 - [1272]
 

Originally by: Laurence Pinkitin
Originally by: Jon Taggart
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 04/04/2011 17:47:06

Why only 14 days? Get rid of them. Permanently.

Wipe them out. All of them.


+1. Once they improve the detection i hope,and will all should, they get hit with the perma ban instantly. No 3 strikes nonsense. CCP need to show they mean business. Once they do that there will probably be a dramatic decrease in botting.


They will bot until the moment they are banned. The threat of ban is not a deterrence because botting it too easy and too profitable - both in game and for RMT. So temp bans are useless.

/me wonders if there are pirate bot gangs yet...

Gnoke
Amarr
Beatus Tutela
The Reclaimers
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:00:00 - [1273]
 

earlier today i saw a botting program advaertise in the advertising window on youtube.

ChromeStriker
Posted - 2011.07.25 07:50:00 - [1274]
 

bumping a thread that shouldnt die!

Dalmont Delantee
Gallente
Shiloh Technologies
Posted - 2011.07.25 14:16:00 - [1275]
 

Agreed, death of thread would be bad

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.26 00:22:00 - [1276]
 

Originally by: Zleon Leigh
Originally by: Haakon BaKaron
I have not read the whole thread so I do not know if this has been mentioned, but one thing CCP can do is change the way mining is done. Make each mining cycle bring in a lot of ore, but the longer you stay the frequency and severity of the pirate attacks increases to the point where you cannot mine any more. It would reduce the time people could stay in the field and provide better ratting for other players. Maybe even eliminate some level of missions and replace with intense ratting.

Thoughts from the unwashed masses? Very Happy


The problem with that is that the bots are now fielding protective ships to discourage and/or raise the cost of ganking. You would have to have the pirate aggression/ability so high that real miners would be challenged to get anything accomplished.

Right now I have zero confidence in CCP on addressing this because they will not reveal any progress. All I've seen is more advanced bots being fielded.




Actually, given the private research that I have committed to doing during the month of June or early July, I have only seen one mining group field a pvp ship to discourage ganking. I guess the reason behind this is the high-sec mechanic that is involved (unless you are wardecced, using a pvp ship to defend your mining ship from suicide gankers is useless). The rest have actually employed a tactic that mitigates their losses:

An even number of ships (example: 9 Hulks) divided into two or three separate groups of odd number mining ships so that suicide gankers won't be able to kill them all at once (sometimes, they are evenly spaced).

Sator Nyatt
Posted - 2011.07.26 01:37:00 - [1277]
 

You guys have a very hisec-oriented view of botting.

Nullsec kill/hunt bots rake in ridiculous amounts of cash, or minerals in the drone regions. Ratting bots can and do easily bring in, well, depending on trusec and belt counts, around 5-10 billion a month, each, better in better trusec. This is using a stock Drake or Raven.

These guys are even easier to spot than mining bots - mining afk is a known and loved past time, bots can be mistaken for afk miners.

Ratting bots are very clearly bots. Jump into system, see a solitary red, check dscan - drake named '.' check, 1-2 secure containers nammed 'A, B' or 'ammo' or '1, 2'..check. Bunch of wrecks in dscan..check. Drake disappears shortly after you enter, because it warps to safe and cloaks..check. Private conversation blocked..check. Each one of these things by itself is not an obvious bot flag, but taken as a whole you can say with some surety this is a bot.

There was some rejoicing that CCP were going to clear these out...initial bans on mining bots were pretty effective, but as far as i know, ratting bots haven't been hit or CCP aren't bothering with them anymore. Brief bit of PR at fanfest, much rejoicing, then lets all ignore it and concentrate on scamming players with microtransactions.

Today i flew through detorid, a region recently stabilising again in the south, under chronic botters Red Citizens. Flying through 15 systems with a blockade runner, i would say that at least 7 people in 6 different systems matched the above criteria for a ratting bot, all RA renter alliance.

We were told we would get a 'report bot' button next to the 'report isk spammer' button. Where is it? I could have reported all these bots, no dice. Instead, they just sit there and churn isk from an endless faucet of rats, something CCP screwed real players over by their sanctum nerf, but happily lets bots grind billions and billions out in the nullsec belts?

I have recently resubbed from an incarna-induced hiatus, still not all of my accounts are back, and none are CC subscribed. What incentive is there for me to resub properly if all i've got to look forward to is the same broken game i unsubbed from in the first place?

Tanyala Rivers
Posted - 2011.07.26 03:47:00 - [1278]
 

When you show info on a player, there is a box in the upper left hand corner that provides you a drop down menu with 'report bot'.

I recently found a ratting carrier and reported it as a bot. It had all the traits of a bot ratter. The final proof was in the actions of the pod traveling back and forth to the sanctum as neuts entered or left the system after the bot lost its carrier.

I used that drop down 'report bot' option and over a week later, the bot still continues to rat in the same system (with new carrier).

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.26 03:56:00 - [1279]
 

Well, it seems to me that the consensus is that more of us bot hunters should expand our hunt to nullsec space. Particularly Russian-controlled space. But let's not single them out. Let's all dive into 0.0 and start griefing the living **** out them and see how the market changes.

Sator Nyatt
Posted - 2011.07.26 04:19:00 - [1280]
 

Best way to do that is to spend a couple weeks training an alt to fly a frigate with a cloak on it. Then park this alt in a safe spot in the botting system. Bot safes, cloaks, and stays there - earns 0 isk. If they are a renter, they may not make their payment for the month and get kicked out if you stay long enough.

I knew someone who did that to a neutral bot we found once in null, near our home systems. That person, after a couple days, sent an angry evemail to the camper, who was in a nullsec alliance, and demanded to be paid for lost botting time or have the landlords come and attack. It wasn't paid, of course, but the botter was very ****y about botting openly.

The other way to catch bots is to get half a dozen tacklers together, and enter the bots's system, immediately warping to belts. As soon as local fills the bot will turn and run, so you need to be quick, to get a lock and then scram them. the other option is leaving the system, then coming back, trying to catch the bot on warp in, so it has less time to get away. This is harder, as bots can set how long they remain in safe after local has cleared.

Lastly, you can put up bubbles on the belt warp in to catch them.

All are a bit of a pain in the ass to kill a crummy drake or raven (tengu bots are nice, though).

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.26 16:04:00 - [1281]
 

Well, I finally dove back into 0.0 space in one of my alts. This time for griefing ratters and miners. I was browsing through the statistics posted on the in-game map and noticed a few systems in the Curse region with about 1300-1500+ npc kills in the last 24 hours. That is about 325million-375million ISK in the last 24 hours from a single system (assuming each npc kill is 250k ISK. Considering the most rats in 0.0 systems tend to go for much higher (500k, 1mil or even 2mil), this sound like a good time and place to grief.

How about it folks? Care to grief with me in the Curse region? You don't have to fleet with me. If you know the region well and have established bookmarks there, then you're good to go.

Naran Eto
Posted - 2011.07.26 17:00:00 - [1282]
 

Originally by: edith prickley

I've heard this rumour before, but are there any data backing it up?

It seems to me that if I had a pocket full of stolen credit card numbers, I'm not sure buying Eve game time would be the most sensible way to monetize them. Even if playing Eve was your main objective, you could probably use the credit cards for something more profitable, and then spend the resulting money on eve, plus have some left over to buy beer. And having a cancelled credit card attached to your bot account seems like a very short-term win, since that's an obvious case for CCP to close it or at least view future transactions with some suspicion.

Anyhow, this stolen credit card notion has come up before, so maybe there's something behind it; just wondering.


It's actually a very well known situation in the RMT world, what tends to happen is someone buys gold, credits, isk whatever with their credit cards, the credit card details are passed on to one of their farmers who then buys time for an anonymous account, eventually the card holder notices these miscelaneous transactions, but it may take time as it's small amounts that add up to a lot over time, by the time this happens the farmer has made more than their quota farming and moves on to a new account and new credit card.

It would be natural to think that if they had card details they would fleece the card, but what they do is make small transactions over a long period of time to maximise what they take before the owener notices, which means if the owner isn't paying attention to his bill very well and just keeps paying it until he notices they could make more out of it than by spending up to the cards limit in one go.

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:47:00 - [1283]
 

Bump

Well, my alt just came back from 0.0. On my way back I ran into the bubbled gate camp, but thankfully I was in a stealth bomber so it was easy to escape it. Other than that, it was fun. Nothing pumps up my adrenaline more than sneaking into 0.0 knowing full well that everyone in those regions are out to get me. To add icing to the cake, the added suspense of worrying what's on the other side of the gate.

It's not that hard really. If you have a stealth bomber fitted with a covert cloaking device and learn to never warp to 0 at anything (not even planets), added with lots of patience and too much free time on your hands, you can easily slip right into enemy territory and wreak all sorts of havoc.

I have learned these tricks from when I was in Majesta Empire alliance. Back then, I had to deal with neuts and reds that solo their way into critical systems without much effort. It is from this experience that I learned to survive alone in 0.0.

I would like encourage bot hunters to help with providing more distractions in 0.0 by targeting each region one at a time (two at a time if enough people join) and then AFK cloak in systems that have the high npc-kill rats and high industry levels. This is to help make it a living hell for the 0.0 bot users. If you have unauthorized access to alliance intel, use it. If you have left book marks in 0.0 systems, use them to your advantage.

For you first timers, just remember:

1. Never warp directly from one gate to another.
2. Always setup three book marks per system (1x safe spot, 1x spot more than 200+km from inbound gate, 1x spot more than 200+km from outbound gate.
3. Learn to escape from a bubbled gate camp. It will mean the difference between survival and getting podded.
4. D-scan at all times. If you're in a crowded system and you detect multiple pvp ships, and one of them is at a gate, it is not a good time to go anywhere.
5. Be a logoffski.
6. Watch out for bait.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.07.30 07:05:00 - [1284]
 

Bump.

**** all macros, whiny little *****es and RMTers alike.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.08.01 07:43:00 - [1285]
 

Quote:
Now showing numbers and figures on total number of bans. Total number of bans to date is 3945.

The goal was not to ban lots of botters the goal was to change behavior and make it no longer a worthwhile thing to do.

Now talking about ban 3 strikes policy (1st offense Bot, 14 day ban, 2nd offense, 30 days, 3rd offense, permanent). 527 suspected accounts unsubscribed, 987 are currently active (Subscribed and not banned again).

146 are currently serving out another ban. This puts the botting re-offense rate at 8.5%. Wow. That means a drastic drop.

Linkage

not sure whether to laugh or cry

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:18:00 - [1286]
 

Any new or wonderful news? CCP Sreegs: Any word on a blog?

Rumplefink
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:49:00 - [1287]
 

When did Sammy Hagar start playing Eve? ^^^

EPIC

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.08.06 16:14:00 - [1288]
 

Bomp.

Slaktoffer
Caldari
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.06 18:58:00 - [1289]
 

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=120205

Botting corp. Feel free to camp and report them all.

Also, good hints to catching nullsec bots (haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just add what little experience i have on this so far):

1: Go deep. The further you go into nullsec, the more bots you'll be likely to find. Regions like Outer Passage, Oasa, Cache, The Spire, Malpais etc are littered with hundreds of bots out of reach from your normal roaming gang.

2: Come prepared, bring friends. Occasionally the local residents fight back, which can net you a handful of kills at once if you know what you're doing. Bring dedicated scanning ships to probe down safed up ships, grav sites or to scan down hisec/lowsec wormholes for supplies. This also saves you time if you need to reship and don't have the luxury of having a capship or dockable station nearby.

3: Learn bot behavior. Some log off once a neutral enters system, some safe up and cloak while others warp to a POS. Some don't even react at all. Figuring out who does what will make your hunting easier. Logoff traps are generally a good tactic to use. Some bots will actually whitelist you and start ratting/mining again if you stay logged on in system long enough, much like many other greedy carebears do.

4: Sometimes you will stumble upon offline POSes out in these regions, providing all sorts of kills and loot. If you can find one with a hangar array or some assembly arrays on it, you might strike gold (alloys, minerals, moongoo, mods, ammo or blueprints).

5: General pvp ability out in these regions is low due to the small number of neutrals passing through, so you can take on pretty much anything. However, angering the locals too much will end up with supercaps getting dropped on your head.

Happy hunting!

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.08.09 22:44:00 - [1290]
 

Back to top of page with you.

Anyone know if wormhole miners are using macro/bots?

Asking as I'm all cloaky eyes on this op and they're pretty on the clock with hauler in/out and whatnot.

Anywho.


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