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blankseplocked Reporting from the front line of the Bot-War
 
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NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.06.08 20:12:00 - [1111]
 

Originally by: Giggity Girly
so you went to a known botting site that is probably riddled with god only knows what kind of hacker spawn, viruses, malware, etc. that sounds like a really good idea. i'm sure it won't cause you any problems of any kind. if you were smart, you didnt do it from your own computer or IP.


o *tear* it makes me so emotional when my minions are fearful of my well being during times of war and infiltration. *hugs Giggity Girly*

in fact I did not do it from my computer

also, publicdemands.co.uk is not on any blacklists

my user name and PW are unique to that site, along with a private email address that I only use for spam collection.

I think I'll be ok. TY for your concern. I'll keep my ass covered Very Happy

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:10:00 - [1112]
 

Originally by: NinjaSpud
Hey guys. In today's report, I've gone behind the front line and have been speaking to some remaining users of what is left of the Roid Ripper forums, Public Demands.

Here's a lil bit of an update on what's going on.

I stumbled on a poll at public demands, that posed the question "Will NinjaSpud Man up and post here?" Most people where saying no, so I figured I'd go against the tides and make a account there to chat with them. And why I was there, I figured I'd try to get to know some of that community.

In my very first post on this thread, I mentioned that I was going to try to stay objective and simply inform everyone of whats going on. To honor that, some of the macro users in public demands would like their opinion heard, but are a little nervous of posting for fear of getting banned or flamed. So I took the liberty of posting for them. Feel free to view our entire debate at public demands.

Originally by: username


On the one hand There are some people, either on welfare or at school or other occupations that give them many many hours of game play, and on the other hand you have people that have very little time if any to play the game.

Is it really fair that person #1 with no "life" gets has many billions of ISK and assets and person #2 has troubles buying himself a ship for PvP even once a week?

ANY game that has such a strong base in "grinding" will have macros, it isn't unique to Eve, it's a symptom of a common flaw in many MMOs, it's a symptom of a game that rewards people with no lives and punishes people with lives.

Is it really fair that people have varied schedules? With some people getting many hours of play daily when others can't possibly get even a few hours weekly?

If there was a sure shot way of making mountains of ISK with very little time spent then you could surmise that people who macro mine are simply lazy, at which point be my guest ban them; Otherwise macro use is probably the only option for some people who are trying to level the playing field...

Does that change the EULA? Evidently not, but I do believe that the game needs some kind of method that would allow a player with very little game time to remain competitive when compared with someone who just happens to play 10 hours a day...



An interesting point. Eve is unique in the fact that it takes both SP, RL skill, and Isk to play correctly. But should that be enough to justify the use of macros?



That's not really an interesting point. It's an excuse for being lazy and pathetic.

If you (not you ninja) don't have the "time" then you shouldn't be playing anyways. Seriously, if you can't deal with the rate at which you "progress" then you probably would be better off playing something that lends itself to short attention spans.

EVE is not all that hard to make decent isk. I'm worth about 4 bil liquid isk and around 20 bil in assets. I'm by no means rich in this game, but I can go throw away BCs or inties or recons for some PVP when I actually find a fleet. I did it ALL SOLO. If you can't figure out how to do that by yourself or with a corp then you probably would be suited somewhere else. I make maybe 1 bil a month, and promptly spend it on something shiny so my liquid wealth stays about the same most of the time...I can even afford to lose my half bil clone (yeah, I'm cheap like that) every once in a while when I really **** up. You know how much I actually play? I put in maybe 5-6 hours a week, most of which is in the mornings on Saturdays and some Sundays.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:51:00 - [1113]
 

Originally by: NinjaSpud
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 08/06/2011 16:58:56
to continue where I left of in my previous post:

Originally by: IceHound

here is a short rundown of what our bots can, and cannot, do:

they do not give an unfair advantage over other players. some players have more time to play than other players; this is NOT an unfair advantage. all the bot really does is give the player more "time".
they do not have a "magic" get isk button; you cannot press a button and instantly get a billion isk.
they do not perform any tasks more rapidly than a player. in fact, most tasks take longer for the bot to do than for a person.
not all players who bot are doing so for RMT or other RMT related reasons. many of us only bot to pay for our subs through plex ( which were purchased by another player, from CCP, so CCP has actually received our $15, and we are not taking anything from them), or to fund our pvp activities.
botters are not "trying to destroy" the game
botters are not evil douche-bags who take pleasure is causing strife.

there are, of course, many other misconceptions, but i either CBA to write them down, or just cant think of them atm.



So, watcha guys think?


Ask him if he thinks that it's an "unfair advantage" that the people who work part-time get paid less than those who work a 5 day week?

Kalen C'Fean
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:34:00 - [1114]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Ask him if he thinks that it's an "unfair advantage" that the people who work part-time get paid less than those who work a 5 day week?


Actually, if he were me, I'd point out that I'm not being paid to play this game, bot or no bot, so to try and equate it to a job is an inaccurate analogy. However, I would point out to him that if he doesn't have time to play the game, fine - don't. In any game, if you don't have the time necessary to play it, you simply don't progress in it. In single player games, you can cheat in order to get around this, but this often sucks the point out of the game, as it makes it no challenge. However, the only person affected by this is you. In multi-player games, though, your cheating has a knock-on effect that negatively impacts the playing experience of others, usually in multiple ways, regardless of how or why you do it. Botting in Eve is cheating. Therefore, if you bot, you are a self-centred ******** with no regard for anyone else.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.09 06:10:00 - [1115]
 

Originally by: DDoc03
The only real solution to Botting is CCP just sell isk flat out instead of plex cards, that will hinder the botters on their profit margin as in income.

Will it stop the botters, RMT's completely? No... But it will sure decrease the amount of isk players buy from them, since we all know a large portion of eve players do so, hence why they're so many botters making RL money from pixels.

If you'd thought about your suggestion even for 25 seconds, you'd have realized how stupid and flawed it is:
  • People don't buy from RMTers because it's more convenient (buying a GTC, converting it to PLEX, selling the PLEX to buy orders takes very little effort) – they do because they get a better ISK per RL cash deal.

  • Nobody would sell PLEX anymore, rendering the PLEX system either completely useless or very overpriced (depending on the price of ISK sold by CCP).

  • Injecting even more ISK into the economy would be even worse than the current influx of ISK, a problem which CCP has already acknowledged.

  • There are enough botters that don't sell their ISK.

  • Most importantly: it wouldn't stop the RMTers, they just lower their prices so that their ISK is cheaper than CCP's.

  • Also, this thread is not intended for ideas about how to stop botting. Read the first post.

Now, where's the bangs-head-against-wall smilie when you need it?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.09 06:56:00 - [1116]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/06/2011 06:56:59
Originally by: NinjaSpud

So, watcha guys think?



I think this very easy thing:

when signing up for EvE, you accept an EULA.

Those who have so little time to play and find others have unfair advantage should just refrain from playing EvE.

If they still choose to play EvE, they accepted CCP's rules so they HAVE to HTFU or get the banhammer. It's that simple.

Samillian
Posted - 2011.06.09 07:58:00 - [1117]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/06/2011 06:56:59
Originally by: NinjaSpud

So, watcha guys think?



I think this very easy thing:

when signing up for EvE, you accept an EULA.

Those who have so little time to play and find others have unfair advantage should just refrain from playing EvE.

If they still choose to play EvE, they accepted CCP's rules so they HAVE to HTFU or get the banhammer. It's that simple.



Says it all.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.09 08:05:00 - [1118]
 

I don't have time to work out as much as others do, so I take steroids to be competitive. It's an unfair advantage that other athletes invest more time into their sport than I do, so it's okay that I cheat.

See what I did there? Wink

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.09 08:27:00 - [1119]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 09/06/2011 08:50:47
Originally by: Super Whopper

Also there's a difference between RMT and bot. Bots usually do it to pay for PLEX, RMT are the real evil ones. They are the ones who run sweatshops, labour camps and other forms of slavery. They are also the ones who really hurt the game through the trade of super caps, moon crap and other things.


Hogwash! There is no difference. Both RMT and botting for plex ruin the economy; both RMT and botting for plex are against the EULA.

Years ago I had less time to play. A friend did me a favor and signed me up for a game called, "Progressquest". The game was fully automated; it did everything for you so if you had no time to play you'd at least make "progress". In fact, there was no need for a user interface so it didn't even have one. Instead, it just gave regular reports.

I think if you have so little time that playing EVEonline is not fair for you, perhaps you should go download Progressquest..but botting EVE is wrong.




DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.09 09:48:00 - [1120]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/06/2011 06:56:59
Originally by: NinjaSpud

So, watcha guys think?



I think this very easy thing:

when signing up for EvE, you accept an EULA.

Those who have so little time to play and find others have unfair advantage should just refrain from playing EvE.

If they still choose to play EvE, they accepted CCP's rules so they HAVE to HTFU or get the banhammer. It's that simple.



^^ This

Sala Kyss
Gallente
Ceptacemia
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.06.09 09:51:00 - [1121]
 

The funniest thing is that the eve devs have a whole host of tools at their disposal, they just choose to ignore it or overlook it. I refuse to believe anyone that has the ability to develop a game like Eve can be so blind as to what botters are doing. Its not that hard to spot, and its not that hard to find them. What they need to realize is, are they willing to lose the majority of their legit customer base who get frustrated at this game which botters are ruining. Look at 0.0, half of it is owned by the DRF who are notoriously known for botting and RMT. The economy has already begun to feel the effects of 23/7 isk making. If things like this keep up, I smell the next Lineage 2 coming around.

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.06.09 10:03:00 - [1122]
 

CCP should add a waiting period for large sums of ISK. All major transactions or smaller transactions of many segments should be monitored for short periods of time. Why is a player with an activity time of 12 hours a day selling veld. Or why is someone who isn't in industry getting millions of ore contracted to them? All it takes is weak links in the chain of laundering assets, to bring the giant down. Also it should be legal for gaming companies to put watch lists on RMT sites. Then if an active players ip appears from one of the watch lists they will be tracked or warned. Though all together it should simply be stated in international patent that a website using copyrighted materials for RMT should have their domains shut down. Which is a huge issue and cluster duck.

There is a lot CCP could be doing to stop this. The major issue is committing the man hours and legalities that follow actions.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.09 11:36:00 - [1123]
 

Originally by: Sala Kyss
The funniest thing is that the eve devs have a whole host of tools at their disposal, they just choose to ignore it or overlook it.

How do you know this? Did someone on the Internet tell you?

Originally by: Sala Kyss
I refuse to believe anyone that has the ability to develop a game like Eve can be so blind as to what botters are doing.

They are not blind to it, but are actively taking steps in trying to find and combat botters.

Originally by: Sala Kyss
Its not that hard to spot, and its not that hard to find them.

Pray tell, what are those infallible detection methods of which you speak? Please, enlighten us.

Originally by: Sala Kyss
What they need to realize is, are they willing to lose the majority of their legit customer base who get frustrated at this game which botters are ruining.

So far, the majority of their legit customer base is not threatening to quit their subscriptions over widespread botting. But to answer your exaggerated straw man argument: no, they are most likely not willing to lose the majority of their legit customer base (not that this would happen anyway).

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.09 11:52:00 - [1124]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho

Originally by: Sala Kyss
Its not that hard to spot, and its not that hard to find them.

Pray tell, what are those infallible detection methods of which you speak? Please, enlighten us.


I'll answer that, if you don't mind: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509785&page=4#98

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.09 11:53:00 - [1125]
 

Originally by: Digital Messiah
CCP should add a waiting period for large sums of ISK.

First, this will hurt legit players just as much, maybe even more (I take it you have no idea what kind of sums some legit players push around). Second, this is easily subverted by making several smaller transfers.

Originally by: Digital Messiah
All major transactions or smaller transactions of many segments should be monitored for short periods of time.

What is a major transaction? 1b ISK? 10b? 100b?

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Why is a player with an activity time of 12 hours a day selling veld.

Maybe because he wants to sell the sell the Veldspar he mined during those 12 hours? Duh!

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Or why is someone who isn't in industry getting millions of ore contracted to them?

Maybe because it's the trading alt of the miner? Duh!

Originally by: Digital Messiah
All it takes is weak links in the chain of laundering assets, to bring the giant down.

No DUH!

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Also it should be legal for gaming companies to put watch lists on RMT sites.

Legal in what jurisdiction? I suppose the world police should enforce this law.

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Then if an active players ip appears from one of the watch lists they will be tracked or warned.

Because there's no such thing as dynamic IPs and NATs.

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Though all together it should simply be stated in international patent that a website using copyrighted materials for RMT should have their domains shut down.

Dear lord, and "international patent" Rolling Eyes This gets worse and worse. Also, see two points above.

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Which is a huge issue and cluster duck.

Well DUUUUHHH!

Originally by: Digital Messiah
There is a lot CCP could be doing to stop this. The major issue is committing the man hours and legalities that follow actions.

Obvious fact is obvious.


NinjaSpud, your thread is great and I enjoy reading your reports from the front of the bot-war very much. Unfortunately, it attracts too many idiots with unjustifyably (is that a real word?) strong opinions and stupid ideas.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.09 12:01:00 - [1126]
 

Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Adrian Idaho

Originally by: Sala Kyss
Its not that hard to spot, and its not that hard to find them.

Pray tell, what are those infallible detection methods of which you speak? Please, enlighten us.


I'll answer that, if you don't mind: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509785&page=4#98

Nearly all of those indicators require gameplay intrusions, so they are not feasible for CCP. The rest seems very specific to a certain bot.

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.09 12:11:00 - [1127]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Adrian Idaho

Originally by: Sala Kyss
Its not that hard to spot, and its not that hard to find them.

Pray tell, what are those infallible detection methods of which you speak? Please, enlighten us.


I'll answer that, if you don't mind: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509785&page=4#98

Nearly all of those indicators require gameplay intrusions, so they are not feasible for CCP. The rest seems very specific to a certain bot.


Well, if I had access to CCP's database and server side code, I would be able to find a way to link the in-game gathered data with the behavioral pattern (I'm a programmer after all). But, I don't have access to those tools and data which means I'm limited to what I can detect in-game only.

Playing the game actually helps. It's not hard or extremely time consuming to spot patterns in the game so you can develop tools or create filtering/search queries to look for potential targets. Once you've narrowed the list down, you can start the monitoring tools and see if your assumptions are right and how effective your tools are.

Bots use patterns. There's a large amount of bots. Patterns leave a nasty footprint in server side logs if they appear in too many places.

Cameron Freerunner
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:04:00 - [1128]
 

Originally by: Sala Kyss
The funniest thing is that the eve devs have a whole host of tools at their disposal, they just choose to ignore it or overlook it. I refuse to believe anyone that has the ability to develop a game like Eve can be so blind as to what botters are doing. Its not that hard to spot, and its not that hard to find them. What they need to realize is, are they willing to lose the majority of their legit customer base who get frustrated at this game which botters are ruining. Look at 0.0, half of it is owned by the DRF who are notoriously known for botting and RMT. The economy has already begun to feel the effects of 23/7 isk making. If things like this keep up, I smell the next Lineage 2 coming around.

It's amazing that so many smart people don't recognize what CCP is actually doing. They're doing what any law enforcement agency (or intelligence agency) would do. Roll-up the low level, non-professional botters with regular bans. Use the info gained to find and investigate links to professional botters, their websites, their resources, their chain of command, etc. Let them operate without hinderance or any clue that they're being investigated. Instigate sting operations to buy ISK OOG, log all info, watch the money move through the system. Since many of the RMT groups are in fact RL criminal operations (not that the RMT is itself illegal, but tax evasion, money laundering, credit card fraud and related crimes are), connect with RL law enforcement, lawyers/courts, and credit card companies to get access to more information (IPs, real names, etc). Move against them in RL with real legal authority.

CCP would have to be filled to the brim with morons if the majority of actions they took were aimed at banning bots and spending endless man-hours (which cost money btw) 'investigating' every ISK transaction or mining op in game. Even if it yielded botter bans, they'd be on an endless treadmill because the core problem is located in RL not the game.

Clearly all that isn't enough, as it is unlikely that the legal authorities in some countries are going to do anything. That's what the client coding initiatives and such are for. This isn't a one size fits all solution to botting. They're coming at it from every direction.

In the end, though, it's unlikely to remove botters from the game permanently. If they haven't already, botters will probably begin introducing random behaviors into their code. Stuff like moving to different belts, docking up for short periods of time, fake chats, using jump clones to setup several 'farms' of bots and moving between them regularly. If they were really smart, they'd be taking notes on people like ninjaspud and the other bot killers and introducing behaviors based on the appearance of those characters in local.

Its a losing battle really. But it can be fun to gank bots anyway.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:24:00 - [1129]
 

Originally by: Cameron Freerunner

In the end, though, it's unlikely to remove botters from the game permanently. If they haven't already, botters will probably begin introducing random behaviors into their code. Stuff like moving to different belts, docking up for short periods of time, fake chats, using jump clones to setup several 'farms' of bots and moving between them regularly. If they were really smart, they'd be taking notes on people like ninjaspud and the other bot killers and introducing behaviors based on the appearance of those characters in local.

Its a losing battle really. But it can be fun to gank bots anyway.


They are unlikely to get rid of all botters, but keeping their numbers down is a start and banning the more casual botters (not organised groups) is also a good start, organised groups would be harder to get rid of.

But part of the process is to educate players that botting is not an acceptable practice and will be dealt with when they're caught using botting programs.

Plus the casual botter will only be using someone elses botting program so if the program can be identified they will get caught.

Maybe making it so you can not use add-on programs unless they have been cleared by CCP and available for download via Eve's website might help in the war against botting.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.09 19:04:00 - [1130]
 

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 10/06/2011 11:58:37
Heh... fresh from today... (Multiple posts separated by paragraphs, single thread)
EDIT NOTE: I alternated normal and italics to differentiate between different posters. Each change is someone new.

Hi All,
i have 2 Hulk Charakters on 2 Accounts in 2 Systems.
after the downtime i will login, acc banned for 2 weeks " using macro "
my bots dont run 23/7, i have bio times intregratet.

Yea, same here. Run 15 h per day with random delays

all my 4 accs are banned for 2 weeks, i die!

Same here, even the the account that only tried EVEtrader out for 30 minutes

Same here all my accounts banned. Do we have a problem?????

Several accounts may be banned (even if you dont use bot) if you share items, isks between accounts. As soon as you connect them, you double/triple chances to get caught. Despite that, it is possible that eve client collect some information about your computers. Processes, files etc. Latest 3.10.1 version have custom dat folder support. It is possible to hide presence of the bot completely if you rename executable and use custom path to data folder. If you was banned please reply with info about how many accounts were banned and how you transfer your items between accounts? Have you renamed executable and used custom data folder?
Hi,

i have make contracts from all my accounts to all my accounts, no isk trades. i buy my eve time with real money.

1 eve installation on my host windows 7 system ( i play on it )
1 eve installation on my host windows 7 system in vmware. the bot is running in the vmware 2 times.

I am considering whether it makes the sin vmware bear a proxy, you should test

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.09 19:07:00 - [1131]
 

Also interesting:

Slav,
If you not happy with this then remove.
I have 17 accounts for sale to go as a job lot any offers to email@address.com
Thanks
Jamie
P.S. Serious offers guys not stupid ones.

You can sell only clean accounts (not banned in the past for 2 weeks, not connected with transactions etc.).

Sorry not selling accounts just wanting to sell all my 17 macro mining licences in one go.
Is that ok...

John'eh
Gallente
Asteroid Belt Protection Services
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:25:00 - [1132]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Also interesting:

Slav,
If you not happy with this then remove.
I have 17 accounts for sale to go as a job lot any offers to email@address.com
Thanks
Jamie
P.S. Serious offers guys not stupid ones.

You can sell only clean accounts (not banned in the past for 2 weeks, not connected with transactions etc.).

Sorry not selling accounts just wanting to sell all my 17 macro mining licences in one go.
Is that ok...


This makes me wonder if its ok with CCP is we , the community, start going undercover to find out the bots names and stuff as sort of undercover agents..

Rosewalker
Minmatar
Khumaak Flying Circus
Posted - 2011.06.10 04:29:00 - [1133]
 

Edited by: Rosewalker on 10/06/2011 04:52:38
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
tears


Nice! I didn't realize it was 3 different botters at first. Embarassed

Originally by: Cameron Freerunner
If they haven't already, botters will probably begin introducing random behaviors into their code. Stuff like moving to different belts, docking up for short periods of time, fake chats, using jump clones to setup several 'farms' of bots and moving between them regularly.


Botters have done this, and it hasn't helped them Twisted Evil

Originally by: Cameron Freerunner
If they were really smart, they'd be taking notes on people like ninjaspud and the other bot killers and introducing behaviors based on the appearance of those characters in local.


This type of bot behavior has been reported in other threads by people who have suicide ganked bots. Some people who get put on the list then afk cloak and the bots don't leave the station Twisted Evil

Edit: I almost forgot this from GS.

Originally by: RageMiner
Ok just an update. I indeed got a 14 day ban on all my accounts today. Even my pvp one that i never use the bot for. All accounts had different email addresses but i ran my two bot accounts in two separate VMs in the same physical machine. The bots ran about ~12 hours every day in the beginning a couple months ago, but ever since the fanfest of this year i have been cutting back on the days each week to about 4 days a week So now i got two questions: 1)Where do i appeal bans? 2)How the hell do the Russians get away from CCP?

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:05:00 - [1134]
 

Just a reply to the 'no time' argument. I think everybody agrees with me this is total BS. If you only have a few hours per week to play, and no time to grind, than just sell a plek for isk.

I think the problem is more that people nowadays are so spoiled, and they think they can only play if they fly t3's or above.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.10 17:13:00 - [1135]
 

It's somewhat surprising that accounts that were banned, and have since returned, aren't flagged for a follow-up once they return. A few chars that I petitioned for 23/7 ratting a while ago have since returned after an extended leave of absence, and are up to their old shenanigans once again, no matter what time of day it is. If I wasn't present to observe them, nobody would be aware of (or care about) their macroing.

I'll give it a few more days to verify their activities completely before suggesting they be coerced to seek sunlight, if only for the sake of their ailing bones.

Scott DTA
Gallente
Crystal Ship
Posted - 2011.06.10 22:11:00 - [1136]
 

From the last 24 hours

Originally by: Shadowminers
3 accounts, the banned accounts don't transfer anything between each other, didn't rename executable or used custom data folder


Originally by: jsfluke
3 Accounts Banned. 1 NEVER used any form of botting. I did trade between them. BTW now eve tracks the IP addresses you login to your accounts from.


Originally by: artinE
I have 5 accounts running 3 bots on only 3 of the accounts and all 5 were banned I submited a petition for the accounts that i did not use for botting. I sure hope they will unban them

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.06.10 22:23:00 - [1137]
 

Originally by: John'eh
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Also interesting:

Slav,
If you not happy with this then remove.
I have 17 accounts for sale to go as a job lot any offers to email@address.com
Thanks
Jamie
P.S. Serious offers guys not stupid ones.

You can sell only clean accounts (not banned in the past for 2 weeks, not connected with transactions etc.).

Sorry not selling accounts just wanting to sell all my 17 macro mining licences in one go.
Is that ok...


This makes me wonder if its ok with CCP is we , the community, start going undercover to find out the bots names and stuff as sort of undercover agents..


Yes.
I have petitioned with information I've gathered the same way NinjaSpud does and CCP has yet to say "don't do that", or "we can't use that".

They'll investigate when they can based on whatever you provide...provide lots, screenshots, links to forum posts etc.

I would not bother them with anything unless you have solid character names though.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.06.10 23:01:00 - [1138]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Ingvar Angst

***snip***

This makes me wonder if its ok with CCP is we , the community, start going undercover to find out the bots names and stuff as sort of undercover agents..


Yes.
I have petitioned with information I've gathered the same way NinjaSpud does and CCP has yet to say "don't do that", or "we can't use that".




CCP does not stop grief if it's done right.


I'd like to quote IceHound from PD

Originally by: IceHound

just for ****s and giggles.... lets take a look at the TOS.

in my honest opinion, it seems that by using a bot, the player "may" be in violation of the second sentence of item 14, as well as the last half of item 21. but confirmation is dependent upon their definitions of tools and utilities. other then the definition, the botter really has no defense.

lets see if this bot grief channel and its baby seal clubbing fleet are violating anything...

item 1, first part: "You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player".
item 3: "You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies "

item 16: "You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules."

granted, using a bot nulls this item, but, from the not-botting players point of view, you have no way of knowing with any certainty, that the ship you are about to destroy is a bot, and not a player. you are only acting upon an educated guess, and nothing more.

i know, i know, its all "role play".

item 4: "You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules."

so i guess that defense is out.

it seems that the only real defense you have for these actions is being able to prove that the ship you are about to aggress is a bot. oh wait, you can't do that either, unless you are physically at his machine to see if a person is controlling things.



We are not greifing newbies in newbie systems who don't know better. We're not being threatening anyone, we use legit game mechanics. What we do outside of Eve is our own deal and why would CCP even care?

My understanding: CCP see's what we're doing as glorified PVP. Just another excuse to blow each other up.

CCP allows hulkageddon, which is the mindless slaughter of anyone flying a mining ship. Other then our targets, how is this any different, therefore why would CCP get involved? We have a similar target list to Hulkageddon in the fact that anyone flying a miner and not responding to our bumps/warnings and has all ready been a subject of our scrutiny is a target. We're not being ethnically discriminating towards anyone for any personal RL preference, just legitimizing the phrase "Don't leave your ship afk in space".

I'd like to add, we are taking the precaution of not ganking real miners for the sake of the players in Eve, not for CCP. We watch our targets logon time, we stalk and hunt. We look for patterns inside and outside of Eve. This is PVP in both it's finest and easiest form.

Finally it is role-playing...from the perspective that my 'seal clubbing fleet' and I are taking on the rolls of a pride of lions. And the suspected bot users have taken on the roll of the gazelle grazing the open plains of the serengeti. You'll be fine as long as you pay attention to whats going on around you.

Even in nature, being AFK is dangerous.

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.06.10 23:47:00 - [1139]
 


Biomass MeNOW
Posted - 2011.06.10 23:54:00 - [1140]
 

It is good that CCP is taking a closer look at the bot problem.

I looked at 'em years ago, but after giving my anti-virus a few aneurisms I stopped looking.

Anyway; good job CCP.
As for Hulkageddon... ugh! It may be effective against macros, but it's also flat out annoying to legitimate miners. I can't go three hours without some yutz either shooting at me (I've lost one covetor in seven 'ambushes' so far), bumping me, opening a convo, or what have you.
The convo I don't mind at all, but the bumping and other crap... Is annoying as all hell. I'm trying to work here. Forcing me to dock up and haul out a combat ship just sends me to running missions that are a smidge less mind-numbingly boring than mining but don't give me much raw material to build with.
And, you know, no one ever tries to convo or bump or shoot at me when I'm running missions... and there are mission running macros out there. Is CCP going after them, too?

What CCP needs to do is implement something to make mining less mind-numbingly repetitive and boring as sin.


(yes, I'm an alt and no)


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