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Mikk36
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:21:00 - [1081]
 

Edited by: Mikk36 on 05/06/2011 14:21:17
Scott DTA, Q_____r mission bot forums?

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:36:00 - [1082]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 05/06/2011 14:37:49
Originally by: Senator Antares
You really are a pathetic specimen. What are the bots that you control, out of curiosity?

Edit: 'its not my fault, CCP made me bot 'cause I don't like them and its all thats left in my life Sad


My bots are called:
- two yellow gates as destination
- sticky ctrl, alt, shift
- overview bug
- brackets are off after session change
- personal insults because I'm the pathetic specimen

Keep up the emorage, while CCP screw the game up even more. Come back in a month and go on about bots, when you can't login because this is CCP we're talking about.

You want to know about my bots? Petition me. Let me tell you I'm in Jita, botting the belts. I do love the Zydrine there.

Senator Antares
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:42:00 - [1083]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 05/06/2011 14:37:49
Originally by: Senator Antares
You really are a pathetic specimen. What are the bots that you control, out of curiosity?

Edit: 'its not my fault, CCP made me bot 'cause I don't like them and its all thats left in my life Sad


My bots are called:
- two yellow gates as destination
- sticky ctrl, alt, shift
- overview bug
- brackets are off after session change
- personal insults because I'm the pathetic specimen

Keep up the emorage, while CCP screw the game up even more. Come back in a month and go on about bots, when you can't login because this is CCP we're talking about.

You want to know about my bots? Petition me. Let me tell you I'm in Jita, botting the belts. I do love the Zydrine there.


If you have zero interest in Bots and only want to whine about CCP and nerfs/broken patches, there are a million threads Arrow that will satisfy you. Isn't this thread about botting Rolling Eyes

Scott DTA
Gallente
Crystal Ship
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:46:00 - [1084]
 

Originally by: Mikk36
Edited by: Mikk36 on 05/06/2011 14:21:17
Scott DTA, Q_____r mission bot forums?


That would be one of them, I've been watching a handfull of mission/ratting bot forums.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.06 02:29:00 - [1085]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 05/06/2011 14:37:49
Originally by: Senator Antares
You really are a pathetic specimen. What are the bots that you control, out of curiosity?

Edit: 'its not my fault, CCP made me bot 'cause I don't like them and its all thats left in my life Sad


My bots are called:
- two yellow gates as destination
- sticky ctrl, alt, shift
- overview bug
- brackets are off after session change
- personal insults because I'm the pathetic specimen

Keep up the emorage, while CCP screw the game up even more. Come back in a month and go on about bots, when you can't login because this is CCP we're talking about.

You want to know about my bots? Petition me. Let me tell you I'm in Jita, botting the belts. I do love the Zydrine there.

Every MMO has bugs. Heck, nearly every normal game has bugs (at least I can't think of any that were put out bug free).

It is the nature of programing, no matter how much you work on something, when you make a change there will be bugs. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.


Now to be fair, the sticky ctrl bug is highly annoying (haven't had the others yet). But not enough to delude me to think bots aren't a problem.

John'eh
Gallente
Asteroid Belt Protection Services
Posted - 2011.06.06 08:48:00 - [1086]
 

The only people who are for botting are the people scared of losing accounts because their bots no longer work.

It would be very simple for bots to be *done* on eve.. at least in a 99% capacity.

The following things would have to be done to kill all bots on eve:
1. Blocking chats would need to be disabled for people with the correct permissions. I'm not saying the general player-base should not eb able to clock incoming chats, its valuable and i like it.. but the ability to block an admin from starting a chat window with any player is just stupid and the person who thought of code it - and the QA people who didn't not find that bug when they did the manual test cases (because we all know they are not smart enough for white box or automation) should be fired, shot, hung by the neck until dead, drawn, quartered, and then really hurt.

2. Create a web service that contains the official database of known bots, that is used by an addition to the client that runs in a separate thread. Store things like Exe names (not that it matters, but its a hint used by the engine) and more importantly the known sha1, md5 and crc32 checksums of the binaries in this database. Have the engine that runs on the client do crc32 first, then if it gets a hit, md5 and sha1 respectively. The use of multiple hashes confirms and limits false positives so that it would be statistically impossible for a single player to be banned without them actually having the bot on their system The use of the "cheapest" hash in terms of system resources limits cpu usage and provides raw speed for scanning. On startup, it gets the list of CRC32's and then it f it detects something on that list, it gets the rest of the data as needed to converse bandwidth and resources. This is really brain dead simple computer science, and basic security. The database schema will take a first year CS graduate 4 hours at the most to create (if they are really stupid) and a more experienced programmer 15 minutes to polish and fix for perf (If he is not an idiot). Slap a XML based rest interface on it, make sure API keys have to be passed to it as authentication to be able to query it, if a exe in the db is found the user is cheating and the entire account gets banned for life (Because once again, we dont have the possibility of false positives due to the use of multiple hash types to stop hash collisions, as a form of chaining).

I hate bots as much as the rest of you, but this is really simple stuff and I hate to say it but I sort of think of CCP as idiots for not thinking of it.

And if CCP wanted to be "nice" they could just mark people sought this way with a cert they cant make private, that is always public, marking them as a cheater the first time they get caught as part of the first ban. Let EVE hunt them down and kill them when they come back into the game. Even better, maintains list of these characters as part of the api so people can have fun hunting them.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.06 10:45:00 - [1087]
 

Edited by: Adrian Idaho on 06/06/2011 10:45:20

Originally by: John'eh
The only people who are for botting are the people scared of losing accounts because their bots no longer work.

It would be very simple for bots to be *done* on eve.. at least in a 99% capacity.

The following things would have to be done to kill all bots on eve:
1. Blocking chats would need to be disabled for people with the correct permissions. I'm not saying the general player-base should not eb able to clock incoming chats, its valuable and i like it.. but the ability to block an admin from starting a chat window with any player is just stupid and the person who thought of code it - and the QA people who didn't not find that bug when they did the manual test cases (because we all know they are not smart enough for white box or automation) should be fired, shot, hung by the neck until dead, drawn, quartered, and then really hurt.

2. Create a web service that contains the official database of known bots, that is used by an addition to the client that runs in a separate thread. Store things like Exe names (not that it matters, but its a hint used by the engine) and more importantly the known sha1, md5 and crc32 checksums of the binaries in this database. Have the engine that runs on the client do crc32 first, then if it gets a hit, md5 and sha1 respectively. The use of multiple hashes confirms and limits false positives so that it would be statistically impossible for a single player to be banned without them actually having the bot on their system The use of the "cheapest" hash in terms of system resources limits cpu usage and provides raw speed for scanning. On startup, it gets the list of CRC32's and then it f it detects something on that list, it gets the rest of the data as needed to converse bandwidth and resources. This is really brain dead simple computer science, and basic security. The database schema will take a first year CS graduate 4 hours at the most to create (if they are really stupid) and a more experienced programmer 15 minutes to polish and fix for perf (If he is not an idiot). Slap a XML based rest interface on it, make sure API keys have to be passed to it as authentication to be able to query it, if a exe in the db is found the user is cheating and the entire account gets banned for life (Because once again, we dont have the possibility of false positives due to the use of multiple hash types to stop hash collisions, as a form of chaining).

I hate bots as much as the rest of you, but this is really simple stuff and I hate to say it but I sort of think of CCP as idiots for not thinking of it.

And if CCP wanted to be "nice" they could just mark people sought this way with a cert they cant make private, that is always public, marking them as a cheater the first time they get caught as part of the first ban. Let EVE hunt them down and kill them when they come back into the game. Even better, maintains list of these characters as part of the api so people can have fun hunting them.

  1. That was complete bullsh*it.

  2. Stop spewing opinions on topics about which you have no idea.

  3. Leave now and never post again.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.06 10:46:00 - [1088]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 06/06/2011 10:47:19

@John'eh 1990 called, they want to tell you about polymorphic code.

Mikk36
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:42:00 - [1089]
 

Stop straying away from the topic, general botting/bug discussion belongs to other threads.

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.06 18:15:00 - [1090]
 

Edited by: Henry Haphorn on 06/06/2011 18:21:06
Guys, try not to stray from the topic of the thread (God, I hate it when this happens). This thread is exactly as its title implies "REPORTING FROM THE FRONT LINES OF THE BOT WAR".

This is about providing intel on what effects CCP's ban hammer is having, how our anti-bot efforts are going, how people in the bot community are giving tears when they get banned, etc.

This thread has grown so much now that me, Ninjaspud, and others have collaborated to create a new movement of anti-botters that (unlike Hulkageddon) are specifically being trained and well informed on accurately hunting down and ganking actual botters. Just as CCP has devised their own methods of tracking down bots, we folks of Bot-a-geddon (or Macrocalypse) have our own methods of tracking botters.

Our methods may not be yielding massive results as Hulkageddon does, but that's because we are trying to avoid ganking/griefing innocent players. Because of out actions, the botting community is now taking notice. They know we have spies in their ranks and they know their forums are being watched.

Anyways: Reporting from the front lines.

I was just doing a Google search for any other anti-bot movements that have grown and so far I ran into a RuneScape forum thread that began in Feb and has continued to this day. In fact, it even has its own sticky.

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?14,15,384,62462908

Just like us, this movement is trying to fight the war against bots and just like our own movement, they are also trying to be careful on who they report (they don't want to report innocent players). The anti-bot movement has even garnered the attention of the botters. The following quote is from a botter who noticed the recent uprising against bots.

Originally by: Grandmaster
It seems that soon bots may face its darkest day. It is up to us to help it pull through. Jagex is trying to find new methods to bring us down. They hate us so much to the point where they are getting off their lazy asses and busting us LIVE! We have to unite and help each other out if we expect to survive, by that I mean the bots of course.
I see that we try to tear each other down a lot but I see that this community here at XXXXX is different than the rest. We have much smarter people that can see further than 2 inches in front of them to realize coming threats. It is up to us to find a way to stop them from banning our precious accounts and how we can continue botting under the radar.
We should have reports and such so that we can know about the bot busters. We can have a spy too reporting to us so that we can know everything going on just as they know what is going on here. We have to work together to overcome the challenges that await us botters. Together we will prevail.
Post here suggestions on how to resist Jagex's Bot Awareness Movement and avoid a run in with a Bot Buster or how we can conceal ourselves even during a Bot Buster.


This is a clear indication on how serious the issue of botting has become (Diablo and WoW players are also reporting similar problems). Bots are everywhere and have contaminated MMOs to the extent that players from around the MMO world are making a stand against this plague. This gave me an idea. How about we bot hunters of Eve Online collaborate with the bot hunters of other MMOs in effort to spread more awareness about the situation at hand? If this becomes successful, then CCP and other MMO companies could take notice and start working together to combat the bots even further.

John'eh
Gallente
Asteroid Belt Protection Services
Posted - 2011.06.06 20:14:00 - [1091]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 06/06/2011 10:47:19

@John'eh 1990 called, they want to tell you about polymorphic code.


Dude, even if the binary is polymorphic in memory the exe on the file system stays the same and would be detected by this.. Code that edits itself in memory could also be detected in other ways, but if it all comes from the same binary this way would nip it at the bud.

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Edited by: Adrian Idaho on 06/06/2011 10:45:20

  1. That was complete bullsh*it.

  2. Stop spewing opinions on topics about which you have no idea.

  3. Leave now and never post again.



You sound like a bot supporter who read that and got scared that CCP may do it. Stop crying like a little girl and get back on topic.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.06 20:56:00 - [1092]
 

Originally by: John'eh
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 06/06/2011 10:47:19

@John'eh 1990 called, they want to tell you about polymorphic code.


Dude, even if the binary is polymorphic in memory the exe on the file system stays the same and would be detected by this.. Code that edits itself in memory could also be detected in other ways, but if it all comes from the same binary this way would nip it at the bud.

what makes you think that the binary has to stay the same?

Lex Zen
Posted - 2011.06.06 22:27:00 - [1093]
 

Joo haff meye smaertbomme

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.06.06 23:06:00 - [1094]
 

Henry Haphorn's right guys, keep on topic. I don't care about what kind of exe file is used...that's not what this thread is about.

Focus kids, focus.

@Henry, man I used to play Diablo II alot. At one point in time, I had over 30 characters (most of them mules to hold godly items for trade)...I still have a lvl 95 lighting sorceress there Cool. The bots have completely taken it over, it's so overrun that you can't even play a game w/ out 100 spam bots private messaging you or jumping into your game spamming "come buy our ****"...it sux.

That's 1/2 the reason I'm doing these reports.

So lets get some reporting done.


You guys might like this link. It seems I've been called out on Public Demands...should be fun.

In other news, we are very close to having a functioning website. We have a fully operational kill board. We have a bot grief channel that has people in it that are willing and able to help the cause. We have a ship replacement program. We have a bounty payout system. I am confident in saying that our side of the line is mounting a full scale assault on macro miners.

TM and EP forums are still quite w/ banhammer reports. It's time to get them making noise again.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.07 07:56:00 - [1095]
 


I should probably have made this post in this thread.

John'eh
Gallente
Asteroid Belt Protection Services
Posted - 2011.06.07 11:25:00 - [1096]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: John'eh
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 06/06/2011 10:47:19

@John'eh 1990 called, they want to tell you about polymorphic code.


Dude, even if the binary is polymorphic in memory the exe on the file system stays the same and would be detected by this.. Code that edits itself in memory could also be detected in other ways, but if it all comes from the same binary this way would nip it at the bud.

what makes you think that the binary has to stay the same?


What makes you think bot coders are smart enough to actually use polymorphic code? Most are not.

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.06.07 11:55:00 - [1097]
 

Edited by: Solstice Project on 07/06/2011 12:05:06

*lol*

Posts of these guys on that forum make them look really, really stupid.
Funny. :D

If you ever have a place in low-sec where you coordinate stuff or hit,
gimme a call. I'm banned from highsec. :D

Also ... that guy above my post. Answer his question first,
because now it seems you just can't answer it.

Also ... "most are not" ... stupid assumption.

Anyway ... stay on topic.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.07 12:18:00 - [1098]
 

Originally by: John'eh
What makes you think bot coders are smart enough to actually use polymorphic code?


Money.

There's a nice little article over at Krebs on adverts for "crypters" - who are guys that basically change the appearance of malware. Worth a read.

CCP have Claudio who is there specifically to counter this sort of thing.

John'eh
Gallente
Asteroid Belt Protection Services
Posted - 2011.06.07 20:36:00 - [1099]
 

Edited by: John''eh on 07/06/2011 21:06:30
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: John'eh
What makes you think bot coders are smart enough to actually use polymorphic code?


Money.

There's a nice little article over at Krebs on adverts for "crypters" - who are guys that basically change the appearance of malware. Worth a read.

CCP have Claudio who is there specifically to counter this sort of thing.


Even if that was the case and one or two was able to do this, the fact remains that such a simple system if added could make it MUCH harder to code a bot, as the amount of effort and skill required would be greatly increased once signatures are populated in the DB. And remember, its just one of many steps; Anti-Viruses use this all the time, then do searches in memory for polymorphic code in C/asm/C++ or on windows .Net (since reflection/ emitting can actually do some pretty interesting stuff); No Anti-Virus does one or the other anymore, they are all hybrid systems.

Oh yeah probably should have mentioned; I have worked for the DoD and done research on this stuff. If my attempts to dumb things down for the rest of you makes it look otherwise, its only because I'm not sure how much data you guys can handle. You say they have Claudio for this? I would not mind a chat with him about all of this.. if he can keep up.

Still waiting for an update on this.. so bumping the thread with a reply.

Rosewalker
Minmatar
Khumaak Flying Circus
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:40:00 - [1100]
 

Originally by: John'eh
Oh yeah probably should have mentioned; I have worked for the DoD and done research on this stuff. If my attempts to dumb things down for the rest of you makes it look otherwise, its only because I'm not sure how much data you guys can handle.


Normally I just stop by and drop off a quote or two. But this guy just has a simple pilot like me confused with all his high-tech language. When I look for expert advice on botting, I usually look for guys who have written successful bots for Eve Online, World of Warcraft, Age of Conan or Warhammer Online. I actually found a guy who has botted/hacked all those games and more. He was mentioned a little earlier in the thread. You know, the guy who developed the Q****** bot, DT. I figure that when he offers an opinion on how to fight injector bots that I should listen.

Sorry John'eh, but I can research DT and find out if he is the real deal. You? Not so much.

Now for the real reason for my visit. Here is what DT says about not only his own bot, but all bots that use injection.

Originally by: DT, the master MMO botter
In the end the only advice I can give you is that if you do not want to get banned, do not use Q******. But this advice then also counts for ******, etc. The simple reason is that we currently have no clue what CCP will implement and how hard it'll be to circumvent those protections. It is very easy to miss a detection routine if you do not know it exists!


This from a guy who botted against Blizzard's Warden software. Gives me some hope that CCP can come out on top Very Happy

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.08 03:01:00 - [1101]
 

Originally by: John'eh
Edited by: John''eh on 07/06/2011 21:06:30
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: John'eh
What makes you think bot coders are smart enough to actually use polymorphic code?


Money.

There's a nice little article over at Krebs on adverts for "crypters" - who are guys that basically change the appearance of malware. Worth a read.

CCP have Claudio who is there specifically to counter this sort of thing.


Even if that was the case and one or two was able to do this, the fact remains that such a simple system if added could make it MUCH harder to code a bot, as the amount of effort and skill required would be greatly increased once signatures are populated in the DB. And remember, its just one of many steps; Anti-Viruses use this all the time, then do searches in memory for polymorphic code in C/asm/C++ or on windows .Net (since reflection/ emitting can actually do some pretty interesting stuff); No Anti-Virus does one or the other anymore, they are all hybrid systems.

Oh yeah probably should have mentioned; I have worked for the DoD and done research on this stuff. If my attempts to dumb things down for the rest of you makes it look otherwise, its only because I'm not sure how much data you guys can handle. You say they have Claudio for this? I would not mind a chat with him about all of this.. if he can keep up.

Still waiting for an update on this.. so bumping the thread with a reply.


If you would actually like an answer to your question, and are simply not seeking attention, email them. The appropriate email address if floating around on this thread in numerous places, but I'm sure someone will post it again for you.

Serious suggestion.

John'eh
Gallente
Asteroid Belt Protection Services
Posted - 2011.06.08 03:25:00 - [1102]
 

Originally by: Rosewalker

Sorry John'eh, but I can research DT and find out if he is the real deal. You? Not so much.



I'm fine with this; Its eve after all. :)

The goal here with my suggestion is that it simply the lowest hanging fruit to stop bots. I find it interesting even the threat of adding this got some bottling alts jumping as it really would make it harder - and thus require a bit more skill to evade - and that is after all the goal as nothing will ever be a 100% cure.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.08 08:18:00 - [1103]
 


Polymorphic code doesn't stop anti-virus software and it would not stop anti-bot software, which would target the signature of the loader/decryption code.

However that is not a good solution because you need to constantly chase the new versions. Instead a heuristics analyser like Bayesian filter of the activities would be the great approach. These are great at spotting repetitive activities such as a bot would exhibit.

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.06.08 08:50:00 - [1104]
 

First time offense = ban would be nice. Also if the account is linked by name or credit card to any other existing accounts it is put on a watch list along with a month long suspension.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:52:00 - [1105]
 

Hey guys. In today's report, I've gone behind the front line and have been speaking to some remaining users of what is left of the Roid Ripper forums, Public Demands.

Here's a lil bit of an update on what's going on.

I stumbled on a poll at public demands, that posed the question "Will NinjaSpud Man up and post here?" Most people where saying no, so I figured I'd go against the tides and make a account there to chat with them. And why I was there, I figured I'd try to get to know some of that community.

In my very first post on this thread, I mentioned that I was going to try to stay objective and simply inform everyone of whats going on. To honor that, some of the macro users in public demands would like their opinion heard, but are a little nervous of posting for fear of getting banned or flamed. So I took the liberty of posting for them. Feel free to view our entire debate at public demands.

Originally by: username


On the one hand There are some people, either on welfare or at school or other occupations that give them many many hours of game play, and on the other hand you have people that have very little time if any to play the game.

Is it really fair that person #1 with no "life" gets has many billions of ISK and assets and person #2 has troubles buying himself a ship for PvP even once a week?

ANY game that has such a strong base in "grinding" will have macros, it isn't unique to Eve, it's a symptom of a common flaw in many MMOs, it's a symptom of a game that rewards people with no lives and punishes people with lives.

Is it really fair that people have varied schedules? With some people getting many hours of play daily when others can't possibly get even a few hours weekly?

If there was a sure shot way of making mountains of ISK with very little time spent then you could surmise that people who macro mine are simply lazy, at which point be my guest ban them; Otherwise macro use is probably the only option for some people who are trying to level the playing field...

Does that change the EULA? Evidently not, but I do believe that the game needs some kind of method that would allow a player with very little game time to remain competitive when compared with someone who just happens to play 10 hours a day...



An interesting point. Eve is unique in the fact that it takes both SP, RL skill, and Isk to play correctly. But should that be enough to justify the use of macros?

I think I should inject this little snip to. I found it important to mention, because botting and RMT is so closely associated with each other.

Originally by: Username


I'm all for banning RMT and all, but what will people who don't have time to grind do? Resort to macros, RMT or simply quit the game? let's face it, Plex is a splendid Idea but it in no way competes with the ISK/$ you get from RMTers and with the economy in shambles Spending $s on game time is often hard enough, spending real $ for fake $s is just plain stupid in some situations.

I'm personally against RMT as I believe that using a game to fund things IRL is a flawed concept, but don't see how it negatively impacts players, It probably has an impact on CCPs wallet but other than that I really don't see that impact transitioning into the game and onto the players no matter how hard CCP tries to make me believe that it does...



Later on in the thread, IceHound asked me to (and I quote)

Originally by: IceHound

what i ask of you, ninjaspud, is that you report to your posters the WHOLE story and not just the part that the mindless zombie sycophants that make up the majority of your community want to hear.




I have more to report on, but I'm running out of room...so another post in 2 minuets.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:59:00 - [1106]
 

Edited by: NinjaSpud on 08/06/2011 16:58:56
to continue where I left of in my previous post:

Originally by: IceHound

here is a short rundown of what our bots can, and cannot, do:

they do not give an unfair advantage over other players. some players have more time to play than other players; this is NOT an unfair advantage. all the bot really does is give the player more "time".
they do not have a "magic" get isk button; you cannot press a button and instantly get a billion isk.
they do not perform any tasks more rapidly than a player. in fact, most tasks take longer for the bot to do than for a person.
not all players who bot are doing so for RMT or other RMT related reasons. many of us only bot to pay for our subs through plex ( which were purchased by another player, from CCP, so CCP has actually received our $15, and we are not taking anything from them), or to fund our pvp activities.
botters are not "trying to destroy" the game
botters are not evil douche-bags who take pleasure is causing strife.

there are, of course, many other misconceptions, but i either CBA to write them down, or just cant think of them atm.



So, watcha guys think?

froggy boy
Posted - 2011.06.08 17:17:00 - [1107]
 

Originally by: NinjaSpud
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 08/06/2011 16:58:56
to continue where I left of in my previous post:

Originally by: IceHound

here is a short rundown of what our bots can, and cannot, do:

they do not give an unfair advantage over other players. some players have more time to play than other players; this is NOT an unfair advantage. all the bot really does is give the player more "time".
they do not have a "magic" get isk button; you cannot press a button and instantly get a billion isk.
they do not perform any tasks more rapidly than a player. in fact, most tasks take longer for the bot to do than for a person.
not all players who bot are doing so for RMT or other RMT related reasons. many of us only bot to pay for our subs through plex ( which were purchased by another player, from CCP, so CCP has actually received our $15, and we are not taking anything from them), or to fund our pvp activities.
botters are not "trying to destroy" the game
botters are not evil douche-bags who take pleasure is causing strife.

there are, of course, many other misconceptions, but i either CBA to write them down, or just cant think of them atm.



So, watcha guys think?


i think devs should put afk cloaking alts in all systems where bots are suspected

Giggity Girly
Posted - 2011.06.08 17:23:00 - [1108]
 

so you went to a known botting site that is probably riddled with god only knows what kind of hacker spawn, viruses, malware, etc. that sounds like a really good idea. i'm sure it won't cause you any problems of any kind. if you were smart, you didnt do it from your own computer or IP.

DDoc03
Posted - 2011.06.08 17:38:00 - [1109]
 

The only real solution to Botting is CCP just sell isk flat out instead of plex cards, that will hinder the botters on their profit margin as in income.

Will it stop the botters, RMT's completely? No... But it will sure decrease the amount of isk players buy from them, since we all know a large portion of eve players do so, hence why they're so many botters making RL money from pixels.

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.06.08 17:46:00 - [1110]
 

Edited by: Mister Rocknrolla on 08/06/2011 17:48:36
Originally by: IceHound

here is a short rundown of what our bots can, and cannot, do:

they do not give an unfair advantage over other players. some players have more time to play than other players; this is NOT an unfair advantage.

Pretty much the definition of "unfair advantage" actually.

Originally by: IceHound
all the bot really does is give the player more "time".

"Time" is truly the capital of Eve Online (as opposed to ISK).
Originally by: IceHound
they do not have a "magic" get isk button; you cannot press a button and instantly get a billion isk.

That's a "no duh" statement. But you CAN press a few buttons, go to work and return home to a billion isk. Same-same.

Originally by: IceHound
they do not perform any tasks more rapidly than a player. in fact, most tasks take longer for the bot to do than for a person.

From what I read, this is due mainly to their efforts to evade anti-botting efforts of CCP and players. If they could (and get away with it) they would.
Originally by: IceHound
not all players who bot are doing so for RMT or other RMT related reasons.

True.
Originally by: IceHound
many of us only bot to pay for our subs through plex ( which were purchased by another player, from CCP, so CCP has actually received our $15, and we are not taking anything from them), or to fund our pvp activities.


You didn't send CCP $15. CCP received someone's $15, but not yours. And from what I've read on the PD site, when forced to purchase a PLEX, botters opt for RMT sites rather than legit channels.

Originally by: IceHound
botters are not "trying to destroy" the game

True. They Some are not "trying" to destroy the game, but they are. Your emphasis is misplaced.

Originally by: IceHound
botters are not evil douche-bags who take pleasure is causing strife.
Originally by: Gametester1993
but the reason i do it? i do it for spite, for power, i like to feel control as i watch dozens of computers do what i want without so much as a question (i think i have some Royal blood in me...). And having the power to control multiple accounts with so much as a click to perform an action a thousand times over, is powerful. and the reason i spite the EvE-O community is because most of the time, when i try to ask for help or ask for people opinions, i get shoved aside by trolls and i want my REVENGE ON THOSE WHO HAVE NO DECENCY, NO RIGHTS! NO SYMPATHY FOR OTHERS WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND!



there are, of course, many other misconceptions, but i either CBA to write them down, or just cant think of them atm.


Misconceptions, indeed.


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