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Heedless
Posted - 2011.05.30 01:58:00 - [991]
 

Not confiscating isk is a terrible, terrible policy in my opinion. You are basically telling everyone who plays this game that the risk vs reward for botting is so heavily weighted toward reward that it's silly NOT to bot.

Sheesh. One step forward and two steps back.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.05.30 02:35:00 - [992]
 

Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Edited by: Iurnan Mileghere on 30/05/2011 01:11:49
Originally by: CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Seriously, Sreegs, you have to stop using "action" as a verb. There's a perfectly good corresponding verb ("to act") and lots of others you can use. This makes me crazy.


heh, is it not a perfectly valid use of the word?

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.05.30 02:35:00 - [993]
 

Originally by: Heedless
Not confiscating isk is a terrible, terrible policy in my opinion. You are basically telling everyone who plays this game that the risk vs reward for botting is so heavily weighted toward reward that it's silly NOT to bot.

Sheesh. One step forward and two steps back.


I'm not sure that's really the message, but as I said we're reviewing this.

Iurnan Mileghere
Singularity Foundation
Posted - 2011.05.30 02:53:00 - [994]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Edited by: Iurnan Mileghere on 30/05/2011 01:11:49
Ah give Sreegs a break. I'll give him credit, he seems to be interested in the community and interacting with it. On the other hand I'm sure he could be doing something other than proof reading his post. You're lucky he typed action instead of act....


Oh, I agree (and props to Sreegs for doing all this). But typos would be one thing: a mannerism he also frequently uses when speaking is quite another.


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.30 03:56:00 - [995]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
heh, is it not a perfectly valid use of the word?


No. It's in the same class of grammatical offences as "verbizing a noun" and is indicative that the individual has had a deleterious exposure to American commercial entities. Phrases such as "I've diarized that" instead of "I've scheduled an appointment" or "I've actioned that dot point."

A better phrasing of your original statement would be, for example:

Originally by: A better educated CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to take action once we've mulled over the numbers.



Even better, eliminate the weasel and waffle words, only state actions that you are taking:

Originally by: A Brighter, Shinier CCP Sreegs

We are rigorously investigating income generation and will determine what action - if any - needs to be taken.



But that's enough of me putting words in your mouth :)

I anticipate a waffle- and weasel-free CCP!

Sarah Tarith
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.05.30 07:29:00 - [996]
 

Edited by: Sarah Tarith on 30/05/2011 07:33:55
Originally by: Heedless
Not confiscating isk is a terrible, terrible policy in my opinion. You are basically telling everyone who plays this game that the risk vs reward for botting is so heavily weighted toward reward that it's silly NOT to bot.

Sheesh. One step forward and two steps back.


See, once I'd agreed with you. I was even more radical, I was for instant deletion of assets, perma ban at the second attempt at botting and so on.

Then something happened and I have seen myself banned out of the blue.
About 1 month after the fact, I am still at an intermediate phase of my petition basically just asking about what happened.

If CCP rushed it like I wanted once and like you ask now, I'd be without money, maybe without assets, all my POSes offline and still without a clue why it even happened. I'd have quit without even knowing who to thank for this.

Don't ask radical retribution for what could happen to you, if someone told me this would have happened to me 2 months ago I'd have laughed in his face with vigor.
Now instead I am unbanned but still in suspension because I don't know how to keep me out of a next out of the blue ban and it's a terrible punishment already to never know if today you'll still be able to log on or not.

At least I can look at the positives: unlike so many whiners always beating on EvE, I taste every little precious second I can play EvE like it was the last, because it could really be the last.

Llyandrian
Amarr
Livestock Science Exchange
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:46:00 - [997]
 

Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Originally by: CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Seriously, Sreegs, you have to stop using "action" as a verb. There's a perfectly good corresponding verb ("to act") and lots of others you can use. This makes me crazy.


Wrong. Action is perfect proper for an ongoing activity, and not a single deed.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.05.30 12:12:00 - [998]
 

Originally by: Llyandrian
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Originally by: CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Seriously, Sreegs, you have to stop using "action" as a verb. There's a perfectly good corresponding verb ("to act") and lots of others you can use. This makes me crazy.


Wrong. Action is perfect proper for an ongoing activity, and not a single deed.



*phew*

Need an English ref here please

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:29:00 - [999]
 

Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 30/05/2011 13:29:41
Quote:
We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Correct Alternatives:

*We are starting to take a harder look at income generation, however, and will determine how to act once we've mulled over the numbers.

**We are starting to take a harder look at income generation, however, and will determine what action to take once we've mulled over the numbers.

***We are starting to take a harder look at income generation, however, and will determine our actions once we've mulled over the numbers.

****We are starting to take a harder look at income generation, however, and will determine future action once we've mulled over the numbers.

Edit: Why not fix punctuation too?

Eyup Mi'duck
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:52:00 - [1000]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Llyandrian
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Originally by: CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Seriously, Sreegs, you have to stop using "action" as a verb. There's a perfectly good corresponding verb ("to act") and lots of others you can use. This makes me crazy.


Wrong. Action is perfect proper for an ongoing activity, and not a single deed.



*phew*

Need an English ref here please


Technically, it should be 'to take action' where 'take' is the verb. But these days 'to action' is generally regarded as acceptable modern English.

Iurnan Mileghere should note, however, that 'Verbizing' does not exist in Queen's English, at least in the Old Country we use 'Verbalising'.

Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
Posted - 2011.05.30 14:09:00 - [1001]
 

And i wonder why they want 5.000.000.000 isk for a jump freighter these days Shocked

Ludacrys
Posted - 2011.05.30 14:17:00 - [1002]
 

SCREEGS! are you doing anything at all about Trading bots? specially in jita? im started to get a little frustrated when i get undercut in less than 5 minutes by the same person 24 hours around the clock

Remyne Zhe Dacella
Posted - 2011.05.30 14:22:00 - [1003]
 

Edited by: Remyne Zhe Dacella on 30/05/2011 14:27:01
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Heedless
Not confiscating isk is a terrible, terrible policy in my opinion. You are basically telling everyone who plays this game that the risk vs reward for botting is so heavily weighted toward reward that it's silly NOT to bot.

Sheesh. One step forward and two steps back.


I'm not sure that's really the message, but as I said we're reviewing this.
When you review it, please consider hitting the corp, alliance and alliance they are renting from as well. A little metagaming and you'll be able to get the rental price for botting in most regions in eve. The big boys will not take this seriously till you start hitting them in the wallets too. For now they are simply pretending its not their problem while continuing to rent systems to botters for billions per week.

e.g.
A bot who has been operating in catch for a few months has been paying of the order of 3.5 billion isk per month in rent to whichever alliance owns that region. You ban the bot, but the parent alliance just rents it to a new bot. If you deducted the rental payments from the corp, umbrella alliance AND space owning alliance wallet for the entire time the bot had been in use, you'd see a sudden change in attitude from those alliance leaders.

firepup82
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.30 16:15:00 - [1004]
 

a botters isk should always be confiscated.. that is a no-brainer.

i'd be surprised how much they actually keep on the botting account though.


hell, take the isk, then distribute it via 2 to 1 games in jita (they aren't scams!)

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.05.30 16:40:00 - [1005]
 

Originally by: Ludacrys
SCREEGS! are you doing anything at all about Trading bots? specially in jita? im started to get a little frustrated when i get undercut in less than 5 minutes by the same person 24 hours around the clock


We are. Email me a name and I'll take a look at it. security@ccpgames.com

Rykuss
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.30 16:43:00 - [1006]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Heedless
Not confiscating isk is a terrible, terrible policy in my opinion. You are basically telling everyone who plays this game that the risk vs reward for botting is so heavily weighted toward reward that it's silly NOT to bot.

Sheesh. One step forward and two steps back.


I'm not sure that's really the message, but as I said we're reviewing this.


Don't you guys reset the wallet of people found to be involved in RMT? Why hold people involved in botting to a different standard? Did the isk used to setup that hulk account come from yet another botting hulk account? I do hope you're following up and tracing the isk. I'm sure this takes time and I've seen GM's actively following up on reports of bots in places where I mine. Don't let that time be wasted.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.30 17:01:00 - [1007]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Edited by: Iurnan Mileghere on 30/05/2011 01:11:49
Originally by: CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Seriously, Sreegs, you have to stop using "action" as a verb. There's a perfectly good corresponding verb ("to act") and lots of others you can use. This makes me crazy.


heh, is it not a perfectly valid use of the word?


Action is a noun. Colloquially, it has been "verbed", There are already perfect good verb forms of the word, and not using them is rather clumsy, and has a corporate-speak feel to it.

Side note: I have given up protesting my employers' use of "learning" as a noun:

Dept manager: "What learnings did we get from this?"

Malc: *twitch*

Malc: Writes on his notepad: WHAT DID WE LEARN FROM THIS? NOT GOOD GRAMMAR, FOR ONE THING and spends the rest of the meeting illuminating and embellishing the sentence, and drawing pictures of stick men being stabbed with spears.

Speaker4 theDead
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.30 17:16:00 - [1008]
 

Wow, this thread is still going? Halarious!

All you people that are so rabid about bots need to get a life. It's just a game, and how do these people affect you? They spit in your cereal? kick your Mom? Steal your coke money?

This is what's wrong with our world these days, people don't want to have fun, they are too worried about the other guy having more fun, making more money, etc...

Whether you like it or not Bots are here to stay. There is no way that CCP can verify that people are using bots without an illegal intrusion into your personal computer. It's either that or just start kicking anyone who looks like a Bot, and then your kick a few real people accidently. You ok with that? Kicking on suspicion?

My advice is to grow up and have fun, if you spend all your time worrying about what the other guy is doing, you may as well go play Wow...

Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:13:00 - [1009]
 

Edited by: Azztoroid on 30/05/2011 18:13:23
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Wow, this thread is still going? Halarious!

All you people that are so rabid about bots need to get a life. It's just a game, and how do these people affect you? They spit in your cereal? kick your Mom? Steal your coke money?

This is what's wrong with our world these days, people don't want to have fun, they are too worried about the other guy having more fun, making more money, etc...

Whether you like it or not Bots are here to stay. There is no way that CCP can verify that people are using bots without an illegal intrusion into your personal computer. It's either that or just start kicking anyone who looks like a Bot, and then your kick a few real people accidently. You ok with that? Kicking on suspicion?

My advice is to grow up and have fun, if you spend all your time worrying about what the other guy is doing, you may as well go play Wow...


Only thing that are missing here is a "botters" at the end of your name lol, Speaker4theDeadbottersLaughing

Speaker4 theDead
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:17:00 - [1010]
 

Originally by: Azztoroid
Edited by: Azztoroid on 30/05/2011 18:13:23
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Wow, this thread is still going? Halarious!

All you people that are so rabid about bots need to get a life. It's just a game, and how do these people affect you? They spit in your cereal? kick your Mom? Steal your coke money?

This is what's wrong with our world these days, people don't want to have fun, they are too worried about the other guy having more fun, making more money, etc...

Whether you like it or not Bots are here to stay. There is no way that CCP can verify that people are using bots without an illegal intrusion into your personal computer. It's either that or just start kicking anyone who looks like a Bot, and then your kick a few real people accidently. You ok with that? Kicking on suspicion?

My advice is to grow up and have fun, if you spend all your time worrying about what the other guy is doing, you may as well go play Wow...


Only thing that are missing here is a "botters" at the end of your name lol, Speaker4theDeadbottersLaughing


Proving your ignorance won't help here, there are plenty of ignorant people to go around. If you knew me, you'd already know that.

I generally kill Bots, I consider it a fun part of the game, even though it's unlikely to put a dent in their wallet. I simply don't see any point in obsessing about it, like you... Cool


Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:21:00 - [1011]
 

Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Originally by: Azztoroid
Edited by: Azztoroid on 30/05/2011 18:13:23
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Wow, this thread is still going? Halarious!

All you people that are so rabid about bots need to get a life. It's just a game, and how do these people affect you? They spit in your cereal? kick your Mom? Steal your coke money?

This is what's wrong with our world these days, people don't want to have fun, they are too worried about the other guy having more fun, making more money, etc...

Whether you like it or not Bots are here to stay. There is no way that CCP can verify that people are using bots without an illegal intrusion into your personal computer. It's either that or just start kicking anyone who looks like a Bot, and then your kick a few real people accidently. You ok with that? Kicking on suspicion?

My advice is to grow up and have fun, if you spend all your time worrying about what the other guy is doing, you may as well go play Wow...


Only thing that are missing here is a "botters" at the end of your name lol, Speaker4theDeadbottersLaughing


Proving your ignorance won't help here, there are plenty of ignorant people to go around. If you knew me, you'd already know that.

I generally kill Bots, I consider it a fun part of the game, even though it's unlikely to put a dent in their wallet. I simply don't see any point in obsessing about it, like you... Cool




C`mon made abit fun with your name and you call me obsessed lol....well stil think its darn funny Laughing


Speaker4 theDead
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:22:00 - [1012]
 

Originally by: Azztoroid
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Originally by: Azztoroid
Edited by: Azztoroid on 30/05/2011 18:13:23
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Wow, this thread is still going? Halarious!

All you people that are so rabid about bots need to get a life. It's just a game, and how do these people affect you? They spit in your cereal? kick your Mom? Steal your coke money?

This is what's wrong with our world these days, people don't want to have fun, they are too worried about the other guy having more fun, making more money, etc...

Whether you like it or not Bots are here to stay. There is no way that CCP can verify that people are using bots without an illegal intrusion into your personal computer. It's either that or just start kicking anyone who looks like a Bot, and then your kick a few real people accidently. You ok with that? Kicking on suspicion?

My advice is to grow up and have fun, if you spend all your time worrying about what the other guy is doing, you may as well go play Wow...


Only thing that are missing here is a "botters" at the end of your name lol, Speaker4theDeadbottersLaughing


Proving your ignorance won't help here, there are plenty of ignorant people to go around. If you knew me, you'd already know that.

I generally kill Bots, I consider it a fun part of the game, even though it's unlikely to put a dent in their wallet. I simply don't see any point in obsessing about it, like you... Cool




C`mon made abit fun with your name and you call me obsessed lol....well stil think its darn funny Laughing




No, I say your obsessed because you think that anyone that disagrees with you must be a Botter....

Heedless
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:29:00 - [1013]
 

He wasn't calling you a botter you fool.


Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:29:00 - [1014]
 

Edited by: Azztoroid on 30/05/2011 18:31:52



No, I say your obsessed because you think that anyone that disagrees with you must be a Botter....


No i just think your name is way more fun seing in this post with "botters" at the end...CCP is judge, jury bla bla......im just a nobody who realy find your name funny with the small edit, when you se it in a thread like this.....

Just to throw some gasoline to the fire...since you think i acuse you for botting when im not, but you react like that...hmmmare we at the stage "thief think all persons steal"?? lmao....THAT WAS A JOKE!!! Razz

VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:38:00 - [1015]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Captain Davison
I think I'll leave this little article... here.


Devs had better start making some major progress, this is some bad bad rep for them.


The only thing this article has to do with EVE is that it's about some activity that's occurring against a site related to the game. It has nothing to do with botting or anything remotely connected to the EVE Online servers.

the article quite explicitly mentions RMTers as the prime suspects... Rolling Eyes


When EN24 was criticising IT for general in game and legal stuff it got DDOS, when it criticised PLs leaving the north, it got DDOS, when it criticised ITs demise it got DDOS, EN24 has been constantly DDOS since the start of its fox news mimicry

It has been confirmed already that the security on EN24 is **** and anyone can DDOS it freely and easily.

Not only that EVERY other anti-DRF (because thats what this is, it isnt to do with RMT really is it :P) hasnt been DDOS once, it is ONLY EN24, Mittani's rambling hasnt and neither has the other 500 blogs against DRF.

Now I dont know much about servers or security but I am a curious person when it comes to EVE events, riverini and EN24 are a joke in the tech community AND most people feel he got DDOS because of ALL the bull**** he has posted not just the recent made up stuff about DRF.

I mean seriously CCP may be incompetent about a lot of stuff but when it comes to RMT, it cuts in their own profits and that isnt something they would just ignore :P


You sure are protective of your DDOSing RMT friends :)

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.05.30 23:07:00 - [1016]
 

Edited by: NinjaSpud on 30/05/2011 23:08:31
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Llyandrian
Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere
Originally by: CCP Sreegs

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.


Seriously, Sreegs, you have to stop using "action" as a verb. There's a perfectly good corresponding verb ("to act") and lots of others you can use. This makes me crazy.


Wrong. Action is perfect proper for an ongoing activity, and not a single deed.



*phew*

Need an English ref here please


People People People

Let's stay on track here eh? I don't think the wordage is as important as the message.

On that note, I am starting to get hope that our message to the botting community is starting to be heard.

As you may or may not know, I've started an in-game intel channel dedicated to hunting and generally annoying anyone running a bot. We have formed together in gank squads and are currently roaming various regions of eve looking for these bots.

We take time and dedication to each target to watch it, try to contact it, pester it in game (like bumping) and if the ship does not respond in any human manor, we take further action to gank it. Though our actions are violent, we are take as best care as we can to not target real players.

Anyway, on to the point of this post:

We all remember public demands right? They're the website that was hosting roid ripper, before CCP smacked it down to dust. Check out one of the articles I found while surfing their forums.

Originally by: IceHound

it seems ninjaspud has created this channel in game to coordinate their efforts against botting. my suggestion to your all regarding this channel is this: do not post on these forums with information gathered from that channel. doing so can create a tie between your PD username and your in-game characters. we all know that PD is being monitored, and of course, that channel will be monitored as well. so, for the safety of your accounts, dont post here with intel.

thank you,

IceHound


......there's more

Originally by: IceHound


ninjaspud has created an in-game chat channel named "bot grief". it is supposed to be a sort of intel channel for them so then can share suspected bot locations et al. since ccp can track who is in what channel and when, if you were to post here a quote that u saw in that game channel, ccp could eventually divine your character name.

they would know when the original text was posted and who was in the channel at the time. so they would know that ONE of those characters is tgurlsara from PD. after enough quotes, they could narrow the names down and eventually have a positive idea what your character name is.

im NOT saying not to enter the channel. im saying don't POST what u find out unless you want CCP to track you down.



Edit: Reference here (I hope linking the URL is ok, if not I'll remove it)

People, all this means is that if you really want to take a stand against bots, it is possible. Right now there is just a handful of us right now, but its enough to make a splash. There could be hundreds of us, if the community wants it. Join my channel, join our fight. Its the Eve players that make Eve a great game. Join us and take part in the exodus of the macros. This is your universe, so let's shape it accordingly.


One last note, Sreegs once again, thank you for all you've done to help us. Have you any updates on the new blog you're gonna be coming out with in regards to this issue?

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:07:00 - [1017]
 

Page 4.. really. REAAAALLY ??? :)

btw. wasn't there a live-bloggie thing or something? can't seem to find it.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:25:00 - [1018]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Action is a noun. Colloquially, it has been "verbed", There are already perfect good verb forms of the word, and not using them is rather clumsy, and has a corporate-speak feel to it.



Languages evolve over time. I'm sure you can google relevant information. Wink

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:36:00 - [1019]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however and will determine how to action once we've mulled over the numbers.

*phew*

Need an English ref here please

There's no need to fear, CSM Summit Minutes Editor is here to solve all your problems!

While English is an evolving language, verbing should never be gratuitous; it is only appropriate when doing so adds clarity and specificity -- when no existing verb will do.

As it happens, there is a perfectly serviceable verb lying around that fits the bill. That verb is "proceed", as in:

We are starting to take a harder look at income generation however, and will determine how to proceed once we've mulled over the numbers.

David Hassan
Posted - 2011.05.31 20:59:00 - [1020]
 

Not sure it needed a new thread and this seemed like a good place.

So the eve source code has been in circulation for some time now. This probably explains perpetuum online. There are now rumors that the server side code has been leaked. This would suggest that there is a rat in your house CCP, one of your Devs is providing this code, most likely to RMT traders. If it is not corruption, then it is outright incompetence on having code that is so easily decompiled.

Any plans on securing your product any time soon? If has been getting cracked for years now. The botters are a step ahead of you. All of this makes participating in your sandbox rather pointless.


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