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Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2011.04.05 20:32:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Comments:
- Yes, of course... but I'm near positive it isn't coming in under "bounty". It's much closer to mission reward.

- All or most of that ISK will be fed to the Concord LP store. (I admit to not having done my "homework" and examined the numbers on that last night).

Ed: Maybe the good Dr would be so kind as to tell us where Incursion payouts are on the graph? That would be much simpler than us trying to guess and deduce.
We are near positive that it has been filed under bounties - they are paid out in a very similar manner.
Since there is a strong relationship between bounties from missions and mission rewards and mission rewards has barely moved, the remaining sources of any significance, that can be classed like bounties, are anomalies (obviously) and incursion payouts.
I am a bit curious about the commodity part, are sleeper bits generating that much? Again a case where the QEN neglects to specify what is included.

Yes, the concord LP store looks very balanced in terms of eating as much isk as getting the required LP would also generate.
It is, compared to tag-heavy items, a very expensive lp store, iskwise. Also, concord LP can be dumped (converted) to lp in other corps (OMG HE SPOILED THE SECRET) at a 20% loss. Don't have to be a genius to see some potential in that.

The good doctor is probably in hiding and unavailable to answer.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.05 21:02:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
We are near positive that it has been filed under bounties - they are paid out in a very similar manner.
Since there is a strong relationship between bounties from missions and mission rewards and mission rewards has barely moved, the remaining sources of any significance, that can be classed like bounties, are anomalies (obviously) and incursion payouts.



I suppose the other possibility is that Incursions aren't a major source of ISK to the economy?

Quote:
Yes, the concord LP store looks very balanced in terms of eating as much isk as getting the required LP would also generate.


Ah, thanks for the confirmation :)

-Liang

Mistchaser
Posted - 2011.04.06 04:12:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Mistchaser on 06/04/2011 05:34:37
Edited by: Mistchaser on 06/04/2011 05:27:39
Edited by: Mistchaser on 06/04/2011 05:17:38
I've been pondering this, trying to understand. Why does inflation really matter?

If current price of a PLEX sits at 350 million, and I can make 70 million an hour ratting, it takes me 5 hours of ratting to buy a PLEX and pay for my subscription.
Now, if the price of PLEX jumps to 700 million, I can still only make 70 million an hour ratting, so now it takes me 10 hours to cover the subscription. Or, I can realize what a complete waste of my personal time ratting is, and just fork over the cash.

The higher isk gets relative to real money, the more people will prefer to just pay for their accounts instead of PLEXing them, which will in turn force the value of PLEX back down. It balances itself out, because PLEX is the gold standard of Eve.

As long as no PLEX are magically created, this holds true, and will force the tides of inflation to be contained.

This should be true for all aspects of the game, of course. So mining, missioning, moon production all take time and provide some benefit relative to that time. If isk inflates, the cost of everything goes up, which means that the benefit over time that you glean from each isk-generating activity depreciates. Eventually people get sick of farming isk and go blow **** up, which needs to get replaced, which in turn goes back to making the time more beneficial for whoever made the stuff you just bought.

Yes, engaging in war, "hunting our enemies" is good for the in-game economy, but as long as you have no extra PLEX entering the system through some means other than someone paying for them, it doesn't really matter how much war happens. The worst that can happen is that people realize they aren't making enough money through industry to make it worth their time and go do something else.

Yes, people wanting to replace ships quickly due to war and thus buying more PLEX is good for the economy, but that simply means that it makes isk more valuable, which makes ratting/missioning/whatever a more valuable use of time, which in turn makes more people do it.

The only real danger to the economy seems to be people getting bored and leaving the game, which cuts their activity out of the equation. The only real way to "fix" the economy in a long term sense seems to be attracting more people to the game, which gets their real effort involved in this cycle of earning isk and getting it blown up.

Am I missing something?

(Edit: Of course, bots are not taken into account in this scenario, since they do not carry the same stigma of real human time investment associated with the isk generation, and so will be earning isk constantly no matter what happens to the economy.)

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.04.06 11:13:00 - [124]
 

Two things jumped out at me from this one.

1. More Titans flown than Block Ops
2. Number of accounts dip

I believe these two things are loosely related; If you at CCP could fix '1' and improve PVP you might also fix '2'.

That is all.

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2011.04.06 13:19:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
I suppose the other possibility is that Incursions aren't a major source of ISK to the economy?
It is a possibility, which is why I also hinted at anomalies, since the mission reward correlation seems to exclude mission as the reason.

Unfortunately I do not know how many sites have to be run to complete a Incursion, but it is considerable and at least the hisec incursions get taken down quickly (less than a day).

It does seem a bit of a stretch to see it generating the about 4.5 trillion isk jump by itself, so like you said, it would be good if we could get some official numbers.
Even something like how much a hisec incursion roughly generates in isk (and LP) from it goes up until it goes down.

Despite the considerable breakdown into different faucets, it is rather tiresome that the bounty column is not broken up, into mission bounties, anomaly bounties, sig/DEDplex bounties, and other ratting.
A simple stacked column instead of the solid bar of blue would have helped tremendously, or a piechart breakdown of it separately.
And add a incursion column.

Supadupadave
Posted - 2011.04.06 14:09:00 - [126]
 

My take...

"the Central Bank might intervene in the PLEX market in
order to curb inflation or avoid sudden deflation in the EVE economy"

We are going to use our insider knowlege to minipulate the PLEX market to make sure we profit the most for this item.

For the love of god, buying, selling, creating PLEX does NOT create isk, and theirfore doesn't increase the money supply in game. Of course redeeming for gametime, and out right destroying the item does remove the isk for the game that was used to buy it.

Fact, with the PLEX system already in place rich players can and always will buy there way into the game. What CCP would be btter off doing is setting up a RMT market that they control. It would effectively do a better job at killing the 3rd party sites, and CCP would have a better idea of the flow of money/isk all the while taking there cut of the transaction in both directions.














Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.07 04:01:00 - [127]
 

ETA on the 2011 Q1 QEN?

Dread Nanana
Posted - 2011.04.07 04:40:00 - [128]
 

I know that people misunderstand that basics so I'll try to spell it out.

Stabilizing PLEX prices is important because PLEX can be viewed as amount of "spare" ISK one can accumulate per month to play for free.

For example, if PLEX price increases quickly, it means the isk faucet is much larger than isk sinks available to the player base. There is lots of spare ISK floating around and players chose to buy game time with it.

Converse is also true. Steady PLEX price decrease can indicate that isk faucets available are too little and there is a deflation situation happening. Not enough ISK is floating around.

This way PLEX price changes can be viewed as an early signal of inflation/deflation.

I believe this is the reason why stabilizing PLEX prices is important. This stabilization will come through changes to ISK sinks/faucets, as we've already seen with nerfing of 0.0 anomalies. It will not be CCP creating/sucking away PLEXes (although the have done that via PLEX for Good drives - I actually was hoping that CCP would match (double) the donations from players...)

nimaine
Caldari
Kevin Master Production
Posted - 2011.04.07 12:31:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: nimaine on 07/04/2011 12:31:46
Thank you for job quaterlying.

This is little note/remark to design/typesetting:

In Q3 2010 and this last quarter pdf Q4 2010, display a few errors of typesetting/design (my job, typeset):
- low definition screenshots,
- screenshot on 2-pages is not correct cutting (example: pp. 4-5) (and from many pages).

Thank you, sincerely.

(sorry for my english).

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.07 14:51:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Dread Nanana
I know that people misunderstand that basics so I'll try to spell it out.

Stabilizing PLEX prices is important because PLEX can be viewed as amount of "spare" ISK one can accumulate per month to play for free.

For example, if PLEX price increases quickly, it means the isk faucet is much larger than isk sinks available to the player base. There is lots of spare ISK floating around and players chose to buy game time with it.

Converse is also true. Steady PLEX price decrease can indicate that isk faucets available are too little and there is a deflation situation happening. Not enough ISK is floating around.

This way PLEX price changes can be viewed as an early signal of inflation/deflation.

I believe this is the reason why stabilizing PLEX prices is important. This stabilization will come through changes to ISK sinks/faucets, as we've already seen with nerfing of 0.0 anomalies. It will not be CCP creating/sucking away PLEXes (although the have done that via PLEX for Good drives - I actually was hoping that CCP would match (double) the donations from players...)

The one thing missing from this speculative piece is that some players have so much liquid ISK from various sources [removed from the current game's ISK sinks and faucets] that they can manipulate entire markets skewing any theory crafting on the part of players or CCP economists.

Any game design that is based upon price trending of a single market item (PLEX, in this case) and which impacts a wide spectrum of CCP's customers is seriously flawed.

Mistchaser
Posted - 2011.04.07 15:28:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Dread Nanana
I know that people misunderstand that basics so I'll try to spell it out.

Stabilizing PLEX prices is important because PLEX can be viewed as amount of "spare" ISK one can accumulate per month to play for free.

For example, if PLEX price increases quickly, it means the isk faucet is much larger than isk sinks available to the player base. There is lots of spare ISK floating around and players chose to buy game time with it.

Converse is also true. Steady PLEX price decrease can indicate that isk faucets available are too little and there is a deflation situation happening. Not enough ISK is floating around.

This way PLEX price changes can be viewed as an early signal of inflation/deflation.

I believe this is the reason why stabilizing PLEX prices is important. This stabilization will come through changes to ISK sinks/faucets, as we've already seen with nerfing of 0.0 anomalies. It will not be CCP creating/sucking away PLEXes (although the have done that via PLEX for Good drives - I actually was hoping that CCP would match (double) the donations from players...)



I understand the principles of inflation, but I am raising a more specific point. Since PLEX does actually have a precise real money value, why does inflation matter? Yes more isk can flow into the market through bounties or whatever, making all of the pre-existing isk worth less in terms of the number of PLEX created, but eventually people stop farming bounties and just pay for their accounts. Since the value of bounties isn't being increased, the actual value of the time one spends farming is relative to isk inflation, so the more it inflates, the less useful farming becomes, thus the less farming will happen, thus bringing inflation under control automatically.

Read my post just a few above for more details.

Can you answer this specific question and tell me why inflation won't just balance itself instead of requiring intervention?

mkint
Posted - 2011.04.10 09:10:00 - [132]
 

In the next QEN I'd like to see an evaluation of the topography of EVE. By this, I think it would be fascinating to see a map of where people are active, and the numbers for how many systems might be considered "home" as opposed to just traveling through, or doing a mission, or mining some ore. Data might include missions accepted, missions allowed to extend beyond downtime, ores refined, loot reprocessed, transactions, public contracts, population at downtime. It would be interesting to know how people tend to fill up space, and how people might choose to spread out or clump up, and what activities people are participating in that encourages clustering up.

MechaMouse
Posted - 2011.04.17 18:29:00 - [133]
 

I would like to see a market snapshot of Planetary Industry similar to the Mineral Price Index. PI serves as the gateway to industry for many newer players.

Thanks

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.27 16:48:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
ETA on the 2011 Q1 QEN?
This. Been almost a month since the Quarter wrapped up. Thx.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.21 15:17:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
ETA on the 2011 Q1 QEN?
This. Been almost a month since the Quarter wrapped up. Thx.
ETA on the 2011 Q1 and Q2 reports?

If the QENs cost too much time, person hours or mental capacity to produce, then consider simplifying the project and reducing the data points that are addressed in each report.

Also, it is understandable that cost centers are not popular (or even feasible) elements in RL corporations these days. If QENs are now a former service, then please communicate with your customers.

Thanks.

Dave TheMiner
Posted - 2011.07.21 18:15:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: StuRyan
Edited by: StuRyan on 04/04/2011 12:06:52
Having read page 6 I understand why there are changes being made to null sec. However, as a paying customer rather than to spew this off as a way to "increase conflict" i would have much preferred to read that PLEX is in considerable demand which has been the result of many people being able to upgrade space. ie Too many people can play the game for free.

I understand why there needs to be control on who plays for free - afterall without paying customers EVE would sieze to exist. So next time the stability of the company is to question and it is down to gaming factors do us all a favour and tell us the truth.


TL:DR Truth be told: Guys too many people are playing the game for free. We need to make these changes to reduce the amount of isk in the game


You do realise that someone somewhere has actually paid CCP real money for 60 day time code, that they have converted to PLEX, that people paying isk for, to use to "play for free"?

Or did you just think these PLEX were magically appearing on the market from thin air?


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