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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:07:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Elzon1
Originally by: bitters much
Bounty prizes up 8.1t compared to Q3 2011 (no comparison to Q4 2010, unfortunately), to 75.7t. Shocked

And you ( whiners ) wonder why CCP is nerfing 0.0 anomalies.



"In Q4, 2010, EVE‘s subscriber count grew by 9%, which translated into an increase in money supply. The money supply rose by 11% in Q4 2010"

"The main cause for the increase in money supply is that the bounty prizes increased by 8.1 trillion ISK in Q4 compared to Q3"

"or from 67.6 trillion to 75.7 trillion."

It seems you have misread something? Neutral

And no, the soverignty upgrades are not the leading cause of inflation, its how the game is built.

Again, much more likely that the inflation comes from Incursions, simply based on the timing of the increase and the release of the expansions.

Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:25:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Di Mulle on 04/04/2011 19:25:45
Originally by: zloxlo


Not sure why you are trolling this guy, he has created a good discussion and im not entirely sure why you waste your time posting with useless garbage. From what i have read and filling in the gaps, more people are able to pay for plex via ISK, no biggy, obviously someone at CCP saw this and thought if we aren't careful I hope there is a currency for ISK becuase thats what my wage could be if we allow more and more people to grind sanctrums all day.


Because his basic premise is naive and wrong. And instead of starting to think about obvious fact which was pointed to him numerous times he starts to act like a road sign or something.

The very fact that more people can play via ISK is not good or bad by itself. When the OP takes that fact alone, he makes wrong conclusions, which are countered by the simple fact that PLEX is not spawning from nowhere. He is now stuck at comprehending this and is being trolled because of that.

The situation actually is more complex.


Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:30:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Elzon1
Originally by: bitters much
Bounty prizes up 8.1t compared to Q3 2011 (no comparison to Q4 2010, unfortunately), to 75.7t. Shocked

And you ( whiners ) wonder why CCP is nerfing 0.0 anomalies.



"In Q4, 2010, EVE‘s subscriber count grew by 9%, which translated into an increase in money supply. The money supply rose by 11% in Q4 2010"

"The main cause for the increase in money supply is that the bounty prizes increased by 8.1 trillion ISK in Q4 compared to Q3"

"or from 67.6 trillion to 75.7 trillion."

It seems you have misread something? Neutral

And no, the soverignty upgrades are not the leading cause of inflation, its how the game is built.

Again, much more likely that the inflation comes from Incursions, simply based on the timing of the increase and the release of the expansions.



I would agree to that even though it is impossible to determine if such players were infact drawn into the game due to incursions, other than those who directly clicked on the link promoting incursions ofc.

Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:32:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 04/04/2011 16:45:25


I think it would be useful to see statistics on that. Are the majority of plex sold to null sec players or empire players? That is the statistic required to make that conclusion. I don't see it in the QEN.



Yep, that would be more informative, but it seems to me is hard to determine. Lots of people buy PLEX'es with alts in Jita and contract to mains. Obviously safer that way.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:59:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Di Mulle
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 04/04/2011 16:45:25


I think it would be useful to see statistics on that. Are the majority of plex sold to null sec players or empire players? That is the statistic required to make that conclusion. I don't see it in the QEN.



Yep, that would be more informative, but it seems to me is hard to determine. Lots of people buy PLEX'es with alts in Jita and contract to mains. Obviously safer that way.

Sure, but CCP knows which account the PLEX is applied to, so I would assume it should be pretty easy to identify what the primary character is that is associated with the PLEX.

Thalis Malu
Posted - 2011.04.04 20:01:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Esan Vartesa
words


Excellent post and explains things very well for those who hadn't caught on or weren't able to explain it clearly.

I agree with you completely on this. The whiners will whine as their ISK faucets are turned off but in the long run the null sec change is for the better. After the presentation at FF I knew they needed a way to curve the ISK supply lest they flood the economy.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.04 20:08:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Thalis Malu
Originally by: Esan Vartesa
words


Excellent post and explains things very well for those who hadn't caught on or weren't able to explain it clearly.

I agree with you completely on this. The whiners will whine as their ISK faucets are turned off but in the long run the null sec change is for the better. After the presentation at FF I knew they needed a way to curve the ISK supply lest they flood the economy.

Honestly, the big faucet is Incursions and I think CCP wants null sec to start running those more and the plexes less.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.04 20:57:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 20:58:30
Originally by: Bagehi

Honestly, the big faucet is Incursions and I think CCP wants null sec to start running those more and the plexes less.



While I admit I haven't looked at it very hard, I'm pretty sure that last time I ran the numbers, Incursions are much like running missions for the Sansha - "mission reward+bonus" and a massive overhead ISK cost for using the LP store. That is to say that you do not at all or even close to make enough ISK running pirate missions to cover your first venture into the LP store. And everything after that is simply trading items for someone else's ISK.

I guess I could look at it a bit harder... the system is utterly plain to see and easy to read.

-Liang

Ed: Also, Incursions don't create bounties. I thought that the ISK faucet was clearly labeled Bounties....

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:02:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Bagehi

Honestly, the big faucet is Incursions and I think CCP wants null sec to start running those more and the plexes less.



While I admit I haven't looked at it very hard, I'm pretty sure that last time I ran the numbers, Incursions are much like running missions for the Sansha - "mission reward+bonus" and a massive overhead ISK cost for using the LP store.

I guess I could look at it a bit harder... the system is utterly plain to see and easy to read.

-Liang

Bounties increased dramatically the month Incursions came out. Hard to say causation, but that seems like a correlation to me. The correlation seem to exist for the null sec plexes as they were out for 5 months without any noticeable impact on the bounty payouts. QEN-Q4 - page 19.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:02:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 21:10:14
Originally by: Bagehi

Bounties increased dramatically the month Incursions came out. Hard to say causation, but that seems like a correlation to me. The correlation seem to exist for the null sec plexes as they were out for 5 months without any noticeable impact on the bounty payouts. QEN-Q4 - page 19.



Incursions don't give bounties.

-Liang

Ed: In fact, quite the opposite. An incursion in your constellation nerfs the **** out of your bounty collection. I think if I had to make a guess for a correlation, it'd be the increase in subscribers at the beginning of a new expansion - nothing at all to do with Incursions as a mechanic.

Oooh, but we do see the huge spike in the ISK sink from LP. It's actually bigger than the ISK faucet gain for the same period.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:08:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 04/04/2011 21:26:08
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 04/04/2011 21:10:12
Originally by: Thalis Malu
Originally by: Esan Vartesa
words


Excellent post and explains things very well for those who hadn't caught on or weren't able to explain it clearly.

I agree with you completely on this. The whiners will whine as their ISK faucets are turned off but in the long run the null sec change is for the better. After the presentation at FF I knew they needed a way to curve the ISK supply lest they flood the economy.


Pretty much, except the economic pressure in the form of mandatory high-volume mineral sinks, aka supercaps, is still there. As long as they are mandatory and have to be built in high numbers, the change does not do any good at all for the economy itself. Neither the botting incentive nor the alloy farms are being touched at all. Just the much needed disparity of value of space is addressed, but again without touching the reasons why the economy exaberates the massive balance problems of eve.

Originally by: zloxlo

Not sure why you are trolling this guy, he has created a good discussion and im not entirely sure why you waste your time posting with useless garbage. From what i have read and filling in the gaps, more people are able to pay for plex via ISK, no biggy, obviously someone at CCP saw this and thought if we aren't careful I hope there is a currency for ISK becuase thats what my wage could be if we allow more and more people to grind sanctrums all day.


Do you even know what "trolling" is? He told him what a clueless dimwit he is. That is a personal attack, not trolling.

Also a perfectly valid one. That guy has shown such a massive inability to comprehend simple facts it's sad.

Originally by: Evelgrivion

By changing the anomalies, the NC can't keep its promise of easy ratting nearly as well as it used to. I wonder how Goonswarm is going to take the inevitable envy of NC renters and members who can't make money like Goonswarm can with the newly invigorated Deklein.


Dude. Branch, Tenal, Vale.
Ironically, the regions really nerfed by this are the ones most independent of sanctums (loltribute), the most useless anyways (geminate), or annoying (pure blind).

Falkor1984
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:19:00 - [102]
 

Good to know what the real reason for the nullsec nerf is: inflation. Why did CCP lie about it and made up stories about increased conflict? Rampant inflation is a problem for the economy and is a valid reason for curbing moneysupply.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:37:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 21:10:14
Originally by: Bagehi

Bounties increased dramatically the month Incursions came out. Hard to say causation, but that seems like a correlation to me. The correlation seem to exist for the null sec plexes as they were out for 5 months without any noticeable impact on the bounty payouts. QEN-Q4 - page 19.



Incursions don't give bounties.

-Liang

Ed: In fact, quite the opposite. An incursion in your constellation nerfs the **** out of your bounty collection. I think if I had to make a guess for a correlation, it'd be the increase in subscribers at the beginning of a new expansion - nothing at all to do with Incursions as a mechanic.

Oooh, but we do see the huge spike in the ISK sink from LP. It's actually bigger than the ISK faucet gain for the same period.

No, that's the skill sink. Dr EG notes that in the report, explaining that a great deal of capital skill books were purchased in Dec 2010, potentially because of the learning skill rebate. The LP store didn't really budge.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.04 21:59:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 22:01:05
Originally by: Bagehi

No, that's the skill sink. Dr EG notes that in the report, explaining that a great deal of capital skill books were purchased in Dec 2010, potentially because of the learning skill rebate. The LP store didn't really budge.



Ah, well that's unfortunate. Doesn't really change the basic observation that the Incursion mechanic can't be responsible for the bounty increase, given that Incursions don't give bounties. Furthermore, in the Q3 report on P18, it's clear that the recent increase in bounties is coming from 0.0.

-Liang

Ed: It's also strange that the Q3 report says the LP store is the biggest sink and the Q4 report says that the skill sink remains the biggest sink. I suppose that's because the Q3 report mentions omitting skills+blueprints.

Shiirly Y Knott
Posted - 2011.04.04 22:34:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Shiirly Y Knott on 04/04/2011 22:36:04
Link seems broken - no QEN for me. Sad

"Windows can not find the host name "cdn1.eveonline.com" using DNS"
"The Domain Name Server may be down."

Ivan Zhuk
Gallente
1st Steps Academy
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.04.04 22:50:00 - [106]
 

I have to say these quarterly reports rock and I love the presentation videos from fanfest (too expensive for me). I would like to request however if you could do more specific information about the differences of highsec, lowsec, and 0.0.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.04.04 23:13:00 - [107]
 

One thing I wouldn't mind is a version of the QEN without the ingame pictures. That way it's easier to peruse at work. Graphs and stuff I can get away with. Gigantic pointy battleships not so much. Laughing

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.04.04 23:36:00 - [108]
 

Disclaimer: I read the QEN from front to back. I only read the thread to page 2 and hit reply.

The fact that there are now more Titans in game than Black Ops is very disturbing. The prolifieration of Supercarriers is also very disturbing. I agree that some balancing really needs to be conducted.

Perhaps with the sanctum nerf, alliances will shoot some of those funds over to pilots so that we have ships to defend our space. (Won't hold my breath.)

Regarding salvage and rigs, I don't know what data the good doctor is looking at. But the price trends over the last 6 months for Black Rise don't match his assertions at all. In fact, they're completely opposite.

I realize this is only one region. But Black Rise has a lot of activity. With the entire spectrum of Caldari Navy agents, including 2 level 4s (one of which is Q 17) in Ichoriya, and significant nul-sec alliance activity in lo-sec areas due to the good moons, I feel that it is a good single region representation of the overall market.

The prices on common salvage (burned logic circuits, tripped power circuits, fried interface circuits, and to a lesser extent charred micro circuits) have risen significantly and quickly over 4Q 2010. Strangely, the prices on alloyed trit bars and armor plates fell by a similar amount. The price on most rigs stayed roughly even, even for the much desired Large Armor Trimark Pumps, Large Core Defense Shield Extenders, and Medium CDFEs used for popular ratting/mission, and PvP battleships/battlecruisers.

The only thing that I agree with is the introduction of the Noctis having an effect on things. Unfortunately, the effect is not at all what Dr Eyjog has indicated.

Since its introduction, salvage prices have dropped significantly, which is in accordance with an increase of supply. With the upcoming nerf to nul-sec PvE, expect salvage availability in those regions to drop, and thus for prices to rise.

Abramul
Gallente
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.04.05 00:59:00 - [109]
 

What's the distribution of bounties by high/low/nullsec status? (presumably null>high≫low, but would be interesting to know the exact numbers)

Also, any chance of getting a version that works in-game? Never did get the fascination with PDF when HTML would work just as well.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.05 01:12:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Abramul
What's the distribution of bounties by high/low/nullsec status? (presumably null>high≫low, but would be interesting to know the exact numbers)

Also, any chance of getting a version that works in-game? Never did get the fascination with PDF when HTML would work just as well.


I'd really like to see most of the numbers (especially PVP, but also bounty/market/LP etc) broken down by High/Low/NPC 0.0/Sov 0.0/WH. Especially the PVP numbers.

-Liang

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.04.05 05:34:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 05/04/2011 05:44:36
Quote:
EVE Central Bank has been monitoring the money supply closely and is becoming increasingly concerned about the rate of growth in the total money supply and the subsequent risk of inflation increase (see next section). The bank has therefore proposed that in 2011 there should be a focus on increasing ISK sinks in order to curb potential inflation.


You want to increase sinks or stop increasing the income of ISK?

Then BAN BOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of solving one of the most burning problems of the EVE community, in order to stop the flow of ISK, you decided to screw over ALL 0.0 players? What about HUNDREDS of highsec bots??? Want me to post their names? I can post their names publicly if you want to.

FFS fix your priorities and do something, or this will very soon become a ghost town. No Incarna will ever save you, trust me.
:facepalm:

Peralandra
Posted - 2011.04.05 05:52:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Peralandra on 05/04/2011 05:54:07
Two most interesting things I took away from this report.

A) There has been a 224% increase in the number of Supercarriers ingame since last year. 595 were produced in the fourth quarter alone. THAT'S MORE SUPERCARRIERS THAN WERE BEING PILOTED BY ANYONE, EVER, THE SAME TIME LAST YEAR!!!

Uhhh, you want to talk about problems to null sec... that's it.

B) Only 11% of the entire eve population lives in null sec. Given the outrageous amount of whine over the sanctum changes you would think that number would be much higher... talk about a vocal minority Rolling Eyes

Edit: lemme guess, 80-90% of those supercarriers were produced by 2 coalitions.... "YAWN"

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.04.05 06:00:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Peralandra

B) Only 11% of the entire eve population lives in null sec. Given the outrageous amount of whine over the sanctum changes you would think that number would be much higher... talk about a vocal minority Rolling Eyes


Vocal minority? If you ever lived in nullsec, you would have known that almost everyone have trade hub price checker alt. That's already 22% of characters belonging to 0.0 residents. Count in industrial alts, freighter alts, mission running alts and suddenly that minority is not that small any more.

Peralandra
Posted - 2011.04.05 06:19:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Peralandra on 05/04/2011 06:21:24
Agreed.

But they are a minority nonetheless
Edit: and yes, I am a null sec player as well so I'm not trying to bash or anything Wink

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.04.05 13:22:00 - [115]
 

In all, 908 players did almost 1.3 million research runs on the blueprints. Every single run was wasted.

Haha *points finger* Twisted Evil

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.04.05 14:16:00 - [116]
 

so whats the use of 425mm if its not for killing stuff? just curious.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.05 14:46:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara on 05/04/2011 14:47:10
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
In all, 908 players did almost 1.3 million research runs on the [Nanite Repair Paste] blueprints. Every single run was wasted.
The same situation is applicable for most all PI-derived goods made with a NPC-sold blueprint. That includes POS Control Towers, POS modules and Sovereignty-related stuff that is anchored in space.

The time to research ME on the Nanite Repair Paste BPOs is miniscule at 2 minutes per ME level not accounting for skills. So, for the individual BPO owner, the lost ISK and time is not all that great. Just stating the aggregate numbers only paints part of the picture.

Additionally, comparing the Nanite Repair Paste (NRP) and Sovereignty Blockade Unit (SBU) BPOs, the NRP ME research cost is 1 / 7200 the cost to research a unit of ME for the SBU. I'd like more data on how many folks allocated research slots to these larger items (SBUs, Control Towers, etc.). On a per-player basis, that is where the true ME research waste took place.

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
When starting a manufacturing job, the window with the quoted cost and list of materials shows all three ingredients in Nanite Repair Paste under the heading of Extra Material. Material efficiency has no effect on such extra materials.
And why is that? Why not discuss the knee-jerk changes CCP made to PI materials and reprocessing back in June 2010 when Tyrannis was first released? Furthermore, what is CCP's stance on the classification of PI materials as "Extra Material" in the long-run? What is the long-term justification for excluding PI materials from the benefit of ME research?

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
This should probably be better publicized.
Most attentive players figured this out by July - August 2010, but it sure would have been professional to have better communication OR even a dialog box that warned the player about BPO research and wasted effort on "Extra Material."

[EDIT: Engrish.]

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.05 15:25:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Straight Edged
so whats the use of 425mm if its not for killing stuff? just curious.


Mineral compression - the minerals to build it take significantly more space than the module itself.

-Liang

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.04.05 16:52:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 21:10:14
Originally by: Bagehi

Bounties increased dramatically the month Incursions came out. Hard to say causation, but that seems like a correlation to me. The correlation seem to exist for the null sec plexes as they were out for 5 months without any noticeable impact on the bounty payouts. QEN-Q4 - page 19.



Incursions don't give bounties.


Not per rat, but they do give out a pretty large amount of straight ISK as reward for completing a site.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:07:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 05/04/2011 18:28:25
Originally by: Malcanis
Not per rat, but they do give out a pretty large amount of straight ISK as reward for completing a site.


Comments:
- Yes, of course... but I'm near positive it isn't coming in under "bounty". It's much closer to mission reward.
- It's pretty limited in scale, being limited to the top people (and quickly decreasing if you bring too many or too few people)
- All or most of that ISK will be fed to the Concord LP store. (I admit to not having done my "homework" and examined the numbers on that last night).

I believe it would be grossly incorrect to attribute the blip on the graph to Incursions given the things we know for fact.

-Liang

Ed: Maybe the good Dr would be so kind as to tell us where Incursion payouts are on the graph? That would be much simpler than us trying to guess and deduce.


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